2024 NBA Draft Thread

[Hal14]

I'm not sure how many times I need to rephrase this, but like 30-60% of the hype for Mobley was about how smart he was.

Jalen Duren has the tools to be the best defender in the NBA, averaged more rebounds per 36 than Mobley, averaged more steals per 36 than Mobley, and averaged the same amount of blocks per 36 as Mobley in college.

Duren went 13th because he sucked at defense in college whereas Mobley went 3rd because he was one of the best defensive prospects of all time.

This has largely panned out in the NBA, where Mobley is a top 10-20 defender in the NBA whereas Duren is absolutely terrible at defense.

So stats+tools don't really say a lot for Mobley here, it was mostly BBIQ and coordination hype.

Mobley has been a disappointment in the NBA because is bad offensively because the jumpshot never came around to be clear.

You don't have to re-phrase anything. You said your opinion. I said mine. Let's move on.

It's pointless to talk in circles - I've got better things to do. Especially since 90% of the points you're making make zero sense and are extremely hyperbolic (case in point, saying "Mobley has been a disappointment in the NBA" and that "Duren sucked at defense in college"

[FarBeyondDriven]

If I'm Kyle Filipowski, I burn the tape from that Clemson game. He was horrendous. I just don't know how he's going to defend NBA gigs with his metrics and the way he plays. He's got a lot of work to do.

he injured his ankle early in the game and it affected his mobility

[Chuck Everett]

I would be pretty shocked if Castle went in the first round and I'm convinced all of his hype is just internet people obsessed about his hypothetical archetype.

He's unathletic, can't dribble, and can't shoot... There's nothing here.

He's smart and 6'6"... That's literally his entire list of positives.

If I had to come up with a comparison, it would be post back injury Ben Simmons but smaller and worse at dribbling.

He's also playing on a veteran team with a clear pecking order with Newton, Spencer, Clingan and Karaban. We can't be surprised that his counting stats are not high when Danny Hurley is trying to win another national championship. One thing about UConn players under Danny, they do tend to improve from one year to the next. I don't think he stays, but if he did, with Clingan, Spencer and Newton gone (Karaban, I'm not sure), it would be him and Solo Ball leading the squad.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I would be pretty shocked if Castle went in the first round and I'm convinced all of his hype is just internet people obsessed about his hypothetical archetype.

He's unathletic, can't dribble, and can't shoot... There's nothing here.

He's smart and 6'6"... That's literally his entire list of positives.

If I had to come up with a comparison, it would be post back injury Ben Simmons but smaller and worse at dribbling.

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt but man...

Castle isn't 6'6" he's about 6'4". He's the lone starting freshman on a championship caliber team. His fga are too small a sample size to conclude he can't shoot plus he's not playing point guard (his natural position) exclusively. He has an excellent handle allowing him to navigate through traffic with his head up and a very good passer with high BBIQ. It's true he hasn't shot it much and when he has the results aren't very encouraging but he's also taking a backseat to much better shooters and he's the 5th option.

Because of all this he's a tough evaluation but it's pretty clear he's not only a first rounder but likely lottery pick if not 5-10. The announcer for one of his games said something early this year that kinda made me believe there's a chance Castle doesn't want to be a OAD. We'll have to see if there's anything to that

[HadAnEffectHere]

I would be pretty shocked if Castle went in the first round and I'm convinced all of his hype is just internet people obsessed about his hypothetical archetype.

He's unathletic, can't dribble, and can't shoot... There's nothing here.

He's smart and 6'6"... That's literally his entire list of positives.

If I had to come up with a comparison, it would be post back injury Ben Simmons but smaller and worse at dribbling.

He's also playing on a veteran team with a clear pecking order with Newton, Spencer, Clingan and Karaban. We can't be surprised that his counting stats are not high when Danny Hurley is trying to win another national championship. One thing about UConn players under Danny, they do tend to improve from one year to the next. I don't think he stays, but if he did, with Clingan, Spencer and Newton gone (Karaban, I'm not sure), it would be him and Solo Ball leading the squad.

He's being defended by centers and completely ignored and can't get any penetration because his handle is so bad. The issue isn't his teammates, the issue is that he's just post back injury Ben Simmons but worse.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Where would you rank this year's top 10 (whoever you have there) to whoever you had say ... top 15 last year? Just pulling from my big board last season:


1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson
5. Alexandre Sarr
6. Matas Buzelis
7. Anthony Black
8. Cam Whitmore
9. Ausur Thompson
10. Keyonte George
11. Jarace Walker
12. Cason Wallace
13. Nikola Topic
14. Cody Williams
15. Ja'Kobe Walter
16. Taylor Hendricks
17. Ron Holland
18. Kobe Bufkin
19. Stephon Castle
20. Dariq Whitehead
21. Bilal Coulibaly
22. Kyle Filipowski
23. Zaccharie Rissacher
24. Isaiah Collier
25. Grady Dick [tbh probably have Saluan ahead of him, too]

nearly impossible since we're just half-way into the season and a huge portion of this draft class isn't easy to evaluate due to circumstances they find themselves in. But I'll try. I didn't find the 2023 class to be very good. I had two guys I felt could be #1, Wembanyama and Scoot and a bunch of role players to varying degrees.

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Alexandre Sarr
4. Zaccharie Rissacher
5. Ron Holland
6. Brandon Miller
7. Nikola Topic
8. Carlton Carrington
9. Jarace Walker
10. Ja'Kobe Walter
11. Bilal Coulibaly
12. Amen Thompson
13. Stephon Castle
14. Johnny Furphy
15. Zvonimir Ivisic
16. Tidjane Salaun
17. Isiah Collier
18. Cody Williams
19. Dalton Knecht
20. Taylor Hendricks
21. Matas Buzelis
22. Cason Wallace
23. Jordan Hawkins
24. Anthony Black
25. Keyonte George

[babyjax13]

Where would you rank this year's top 10 (whoever you have there) to whoever you had say ... top 15 last year? Just pulling from my big board last season:


1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson
5. Alexandre Sarr
6. Matas Buzelis
7. Anthony Black
8. Cam Whitmore
9. Ausur Thompson
10. Keyonte George
11. Jarace Walker
12. Cason Wallace
13. Nikola Topic
14. Cody Williams
15. Ja'Kobe Walter
16. Taylor Hendricks
17. Ron Holland
18. Kobe Bufkin
19. Stephon Castle
20. Dariq Whitehead
21. Bilal Coulibaly
22. Kyle Filipowski
23. Zaccharie Rissacher
24. Isaiah Collier
25. Grady Dick [tbh probably have Saluan ahead of him, too]

nearly impossible since we're just half-way into the season and a huge portion of this draft class isn't easy to evaluate due to circumstances they find themselves in. But I'll try. I didn't find the 2023 class to be very good. I had two guys I felt could be #1, Wembanyama and Scoot and a bunch of role players to varying degrees.

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Alexandre Sarr
4. Zaccharie Rissacher
5. Ron Holland
6. Brandon Miller
7. Nikola Topic
8. Carlton Carrington
9. Jarace Walker
10. Ja'Kobe Walter
11. Bilal Coulibaly
12. Amen Thompson
13. Stephon Castle
14. Johnny Furphy
15. Zvonimir Ivisic
16. Tidjane Salaun
17. Isiah Collier
18. Cody Williams
19. Dalton Knecht
20. Taylor Hendricks
21. Matas Buzelis
22. Cason Wallace
23. Jordan Hawkins
24. Anthony Black
25. Keyonte George

I agree that it is nearly impossible, just an initial attempt and things will change a lot (including adding a few guys I really haven't gotten to see - e.g., not sure where I'll have Knecht and Furphy). What about Rissacher/Holland do you see that you like more than you liked Miller pre-draft?

[FarBeyondDriven]

Where would you rank this year's top 10 (whoever you have there) to whoever you had say ... top 15 last year? Just pulling from my big board last season:


1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson
5. Alexandre Sarr
6. Matas Buzelis
7. Anthony Black
8. Cam Whitmore
9. Ausur Thompson
10. Keyonte George
11. Jarace Walker
12. Cason Wallace
13. Nikola Topic
14. Cody Williams
15. Ja'Kobe Walter
16. Taylor Hendricks
17. Ron Holland
18. Kobe Bufkin
19. Stephon Castle
20. Dariq Whitehead
21. Bilal Coulibaly
22. Kyle Filipowski
23. Zaccharie Rissacher
24. Isaiah Collier
25. Grady Dick [tbh probably have Saluan ahead of him, too]

nearly impossible since we're just half-way into the season and a huge portion of this draft class isn't easy to evaluate due to circumstances they find themselves in. But I'll try. I didn't find the 2023 class to be very good. I had two guys I felt could be #1, Wembanyama and Scoot and a bunch of role players to varying degrees.

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Alexandre Sarr
4. Zaccharie Rissacher
5. Ron Holland
6. Brandon Miller
7. Nikola Topic
8. Carlton Carrington
9. Jarace Walker
10. Ja'Kobe Walter
11. Bilal Coulibaly
12. Amen Thompson
13. Stephon Castle
14. Johnny Furphy
15. Zvonimir Ivisic
16. Tidjane Salaun
17. Isiah Collier
18. Cody Williams
19. Dalton Knecht
20. Taylor Hendricks
21. Matas Buzelis
22. Cason Wallace
23. Jordan Hawkins
24. Anthony Black
25. Keyonte George

I agree that it is nearly impossible, just an initial attempt and things will change a lot (including adding a few guys I really haven't gotten to see - e.g., not sure where I'll have Knecht and Furphy). What about Rissacher/Holland do you see that you like more than you liked Miller pre-draft?

We're talking miniscule differences but it's mostly due to age (Miller is already 21 y/o) and Miller's sub-par handle compared to them which imo limits his ceiling to a #2. I really like Risacher and Holland. Both could end up going before Sarr. I think there's a chance Holland is a #1. It's not likely but I can imagine it whereas I can't with Miller. And Risacher could be a secondary playmaker as a #2 giving him the slight edge on Miller. I wouldn't be surprised come draft night that the top three are 1) Risacher 2) Holland 3) Sarr depending on who gets the picks.

[DOT]

Castle would probably be better off staying another year to develop, like Hawkins and Clingan, even Bouknight saw his stock jump a bunch after his sophomore year though he's a bust in the NBA

However, because of how weak this class is, even if he balls out next year, he might go lower than if he just declares this year.

[Chuck Everett]

Okay, I'm done hiding it. I root for Houston (due to Kelvin Sampson), but I think Jamal Shead should be getting a two-way from someone this summer. He will probably go undrafted, but he is a tank and an elite athlete at 6'1. Same makeup as Fred Van Vleet. A guy who will grind out an NBA career.

Just wanted to go on record, that I think there is room for him somewhere in the League.

[NYPiston]

I dont have Sarr as close to Mobley as a prospect. I think Sarr is a 8-12 type talent, not sure what I am missing (Outside this being a bad draft and someone needing to go high). I think this hype of going Top-3 will end up like the Nerlens draft where Noel was getting #1 hype but ended going #7.

I see maybe Nic Claxton with a chance of a 3PT shot (Not convinced he will be a 3PT threat - many including myself thought Mobley was going to be a 3PT guy but look where we are).

Is this draft really SO bad that a guy with Nic Claxton upside is considered anywhere near the top 10? Yikes, as a Pistons fan.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I dont have Sarr as close to Mobley as a prospect. I think Sarr is a 8-12 type talent, not sure what I am missing (Outside this being a bad draft and someone needing to go high). I think this hype of going Top-3 will end up like the Nerlens draft where Noel was getting #1 hype but ended going #7.

I see maybe Nic Claxton with a chance of a 3PT shot (Not convinced he will be a 3PT threat - many including myself thought Mobley was going to be a 3PT guy but look where we are).

Is this draft really SO bad that a guy with Nic Claxton upside is considered anywhere near the top 10? Yikes, as a Pistons fan.

is this where we're pretending the guy who led the league in FG% and was in the DPOY conversation last season is bad? The guy averaging a double double and over 2 blocks a game? Cool I guess.

[NYPiston]

is this where we're pretending the guy who led the league in FG% and was in the DPOY conversation last season is bad? The guy averaging a double double and over 2 blocks a game? Cool I guess.

Yes it is. It's a really bad draft when a guy who is considered consensus top 5 is getting Claxton comparables. This is a perimeter scoring league now. Centers that can defend well and do little else are becoming less and less valuable.
Could every team use a guy like Claxton? Absolutely, but I'm not taking a guy like that with a high lottery pick. If Sarr can improve his shooting to a reasonable level then we're talking about a different ballgame now. I think teams are banking on him being that guy that can stretch a defense potentially if they're taking him that high, not as a Claxton level player at best.

As a Pistons fan, I love Duren for what he brings but if he never expands his game beyond what it is now (in other words, if he never becomes a Bam Adebayo type) I wouldn't take him with a top 5 pick in a redraft of any reasonably good draft maybe not even top 10.

[Hal14]

I dont have Sarr as close to Mobley as a prospect. I think Sarr is a 8-12 type talent, not sure what I am missing (Outside this being a bad draft and someone needing to go high). I think this hype of going Top-3 will end up like the Nerlens draft where Noel was getting #1 hype but ended going #7.

I see maybe Nic Claxton with a chance of a 3PT shot (Not convinced he will be a 3PT threat - many including myself thought Mobley was going to be a 3PT guy but look where we are).

Is this draft really SO bad that a guy with Nic Claxton upside is considered anywhere near the top 10? Yikes, as a Pistons fan.

What are you talking about? Nic Claxton is an all-NBA caliber defender at center, with an expanding offensive game, he's still only 24 yrs old and he's arguably the 2nd best/most valuable player on his team.

He'd probably go like 5th in a 2019 re-draft.

And Sarr's upside is closer to Evan Mobley, who would probably go top 3 in a 2021 re-draft. Mobley would likely go number 1 if he was in this 2024 draft class.

[JMAC3]

is this where we're pretending the guy who led the league in FG% and was in the DPOY conversation last season is bad? The guy averaging a double double and over 2 blocks a game? Cool I guess.

Yes it is. It's a really bad draft when a guy who is considered consensus top 5 is getting Claxton comparables. This is a perimeter scoring league now. Centers that can defend well and do little else are becoming less and less valuable.
Could every team use a guy like Claxton? Absolutely, but I'm not taking a guy like that with a high lottery pick. If Sarr can improve his shooting to a reasonable level then we're talking about a different ballgame now. I think teams are banking on him being that guy that can stretch a defense potentially if they're taking him that high, not as a Claxton level player at best.

As a Pistons fan, I love Duren for what he brings but if he never expands his game beyond what it is now (in other words, if he never becomes a Bam Adebayo type) I wouldn't take him with a top 5 pick in a redraft of any reasonably good draft maybe not even top 10.

Yeah this debate will never end of the good vs bad draft because people use different thresholds to determine if a draft is good.

The 2020 NBA draft was seen as bad. and the fact that 8/10 of the top picks were probably disappointments is a good way to evaluate that to be true in my opinion. But then there are others who will say it was a good draft because Tyrese Maxey and Desmond Bane were good picks later in the draft.

Or the other example is this one, where if the #1 pick turns out to be Claxton and the guy most people have as a top 10 pick Sheppard turns out to be Donte Divencenzo. Then IMO those are bad outcomes for those picks, but then there are others who will say those are good role players so they aren't bad picks and therefore not a bad draft.

[clyde21]

It's objectively a bad class by almost every metric. not sure how or why we're still talking about this.

it's fine, it happens, not all classes are gonna be equally talented, and it doesn't mean there won't be good players to come out of it or some late bloomers.

[NYPiston]

What are you talking about? Nic Claxton is an all-NBA caliber defender at center, with an expanding offensive game, he's still only 24 yrs old and he's arguably the 2nd best/most valuable player on his team.

He'd probably go like 5th in a 2019 re-draft.

And Sarr's upside is closer to Evan Mobley, who would probably go top 3 in a 2021 re-draft. Mobley would likely go number 1 if he was in this 2024 draft class.

Sarr is not near the prospect Mobley was. Maybe Sarr has that level of upside but his floor is quite a bit lower.

[Hal14]

What are you talking about? Nic Claxton is an all-NBA caliber defender at center, with an expanding offensive game, he's still only 24 yrs old and he's arguably the 2nd best/most valuable player on his team.

He'd probably go like 5th in a 2019 re-draft.

And Sarr's upside is closer to Evan Mobley, who would probably go top 3 in a 2021 re-draft. Mobley would likely go number 1 if he was in this 2024 draft class.

Sarr is not near the prospect Mobley was. Maybe Sarr has that level of upside but his floor is quite a bit lower.

Are you basing those 2 statements off anything in particular?

Anything of substance you'd like to share with the class?

I would think if anything, the guy who's playing a season of pro ball vs grown men, not to mention playing 2 years in the OTE at age 16 and 17 where he went head to head vs *two* top 5 draft picks (the Thompson twins) would have a higher floor than the guy who played in the mediocre Pac 12 conference, as well as a grueling non-conference schedule that included Cal Baptist, Santa Clara, UC Riverside and Montana and before that played for Rancho Christian.

These are Sarr's numbers this season (including the 2 games vs G League Ignite) and Mobley's numbers at USC.

[treefi]

What are you talking about? Nic Claxton is an all-NBA caliber defender at center, with an expanding offensive game, he's still only 24 yrs old and he's arguably the 2nd best/most valuable player on his team.

He'd probably go like 5th in a 2019 re-draft.

And Sarr's upside is closer to Evan Mobley, who would probably go top 3 in a 2021 re-draft. Mobley would likely go number 1 if he was in this 2024 draft class.

Sarr is not near the prospect Mobley was. Maybe Sarr has that level of upside but his floor is quite a bit lower.

Are you basing those 2 statements off anything in particular?

Anything of substance you'd like to share with the class?

I would think if anything, the guy who's playing a season of pro ball vs grown men, not to mention playing 2 years in the OTE at age 16 and 17 where he went head to head vs *two* top 5 draft picks (the Thompson twins) would have a higher floor than the guy who played in the mediocre Pac 12 conference, as well as a grueling non-conference schedule that included Cal Baptist, Santa Clara, UC Riverside and Montana and before that played for Rancho Christian.

These are Sarr's numbers this season (including the 2 games vs G League Ignite) and Mobley's numbers at USC.

Aday Mara was supposed to be one of the most intriguing prospects in college basketball at UCLA this year based on his solid play in Spain at such a young age. What happened? Not sayin' Sarr would struggle like Mara at the NCAA level, just sayin' it's a waste of time to compare Sarr's stats overseas to Mobley's stats on USC as if they mean the same thing. It's completely pointless.

IMO, Mobley as a draft prospect (some analysts had him ranked ahead of Cade & Green) should be ranked ahead of Sarr as a draft prospect.

[Hal14]

Aday Mara was supposed to be one of the most intriguing prospects in college basketball at UCLA this year based on his solid play in Spain at such a young age. What happened? Not sayin' Sarr would struggle like Mara at the NCAA level, just sayin' it's a waste of time to compare Sarr's stats overseas to Mobley's stats on USC as if they mean the same thing. It's completely pointless.

IMO, Mobley as a draft prospect (some analysts had him ranked ahead of Cade & Green) should be ranked ahead of Sarr as a draft prospect.

What a weird argument. NBL is better competition than the NCAA is. They're grown men pros in the NBL, many of them have played (and even started) for NBA teams. Average age is similar to the average age in the NBA.

Just because Mick Cronin won't give many minutes to an under-developed 18 year old big man who is in a foreign country, doesn't have sh*t to do with Sarr, who played some of the best basketball of his life vs an Ignite team that had Holland, Buzelis, Tyler Smith Almansa, etc.

Sometimes young players struggle when they're in a foreign country for the first time and are adjusting to not only a new style of basketball but a new culture, new language, etc.

You don't really have to worry about that with Sarr, though. He's from France, played 2 years of OTE ball in the US and is now playing a year in Australia.

IMO, Mobley as a draft prospect should be ranked ahead of Sarr as a draft prospect.

Based on what?

some analysts had him ranked ahead of Cade & Green

Ok, so what? Who cares what "some analysts" say? Some analysts didn't think Giannis was a top 10 pick and some analysts didn't think Jokic wasn't a 1st round pick..some analysts thought James Wiseman was a top 2 pick.

Some analysts are wrong a lot. Why don't you make your own evaluations?

And if Mobley as a prospect was better than Cade and Green, maybe Sarr is too?

Why would it be pointless to look at Sarr's stats? How do you suggest we evaluate Sarr if we're not allowed to use his stats? Giddey put up good stats in the NBL, went 6th pick in the draft and is now starting for arguably the best team in the west. Lamelo put up good stats in the NBL, then went 3rd pick in the draft, won ROY and got a max rookie extension.

Bobi Klintman was a projected top 20 pick coming into this season, based off his stats in the NCAA. But then he goes to the NBL and now he's not even a 1st rounder. Taran Armstrong and AJ JOhnson are playing NBL this season instead of NCAA..are they putting up amazing stats? Nope.

Sengun put up good stats in the Turkish league, went 16th pick but it turns out how got drafted way too low..should have probably gone top 5..some are even saying he'd go number 1 in a re-draft.

Doncic put up good stats in Europe and is now a top 5 player in the NBA.

Like, do we really need to go down the list of players who played overseas instead of the NCAA and had success in the NBA? Jokic, Giannis, Gallinari, Tony Parker, Ginobili, Bogdanovic, etc.

And how about the list of NCAA players who didn't work out in the NBA? Kevin Knox, James Wiseman, Trevor Keels, Josh Primo, James Bouknight, Kai Jones, Josh Jackson, Stanley Johnson, etc.