Bears 2024 2.0

[biggestbullsfan]

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I’m team Justin, but it doesn’t sound like he’s describing him right here

He’s plainly describing the prevalent idea of what Caleb is. Even if it’s just the idea of what Caleb is, and not Caleb.

I would say that Caleb is quicker than Justin but idk if I’d call him super quick. The rest could be said for either of them. But if i had to put money on it, I’d say Caleb more likely

[fleet]

Delivery quickness. Not quickness. That’s the key. And Justin is a lot of those other good things, yet he doesn’t exude confidence, swagger, and especially…arrogance.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

The counter to that argument is that Brock Purdy did lead the league in QBR this year, so maybe he IS a top 5 qb. And Jared Goff sure played like a top 5. I think I read that when he's not under pressure, he's the most accurate in the league.

And if you look at the teams that were in contention this year- SF, DET, BAL, KC, and I would include BUF in that group, they all had QB's that could legitimately be called top 5. At least top 7 or 8.

The question will always remain- does the QB elevate the team, or is the team elevating the QB?

I think it's probably pretty clear. A guy like Mahomes with trash receivers is going to the super bowl. Great teams come and go, but great QB's will always be in the conversation. 6 AFC championship games in a row.

Once again, the argument is that teams can build a great team around an average QB, which will elevate the QB. But those teams don't usually last because you have 8 or 9 players that you need to sign to big contracts. Inevitably some of them have to go. I think the Eagles are a great example. They build an absolutely prolific team around Hurts and made the SB. But then they lost several key players because they couldn't pay them all, and Hurts isn't an elite QB but he had to be paid like one because of his surrounding cast and success. After one year, they don't look so great.

The Bills and Chiefs will be relevant for far longer because an elite QB will elevate the team when you don't have the budget to sign elite weapons around them. Brady was the best QB to ever play the game and he didn't always have a great offense around him, but they were always in the conversation. Anything can happen in the playoffs if you have one of those guys. The '06 Bears are an example of the opposite argument of building a great team around a mediocre QB. We made the SB, but then fell off afterwards.

With that said, I'm not crowning Williams the next great QB. There's always the risk of failure. I would just rather take that chance then depend on hitting on a bunch of other picks to build a great team so we can be really good for a few years and then back to losing to the Packers every season.

[1985Bear]

From a yahoo article:

5. You can win without a top-five QB

There are a handful of quarterbacks walking the planet that can lift an entire organization on their shoulders. Teammates, coaches, schemes, it doesn't matter. They're just that good. That doesn't mean the rest of the NFL should give up if they don't have one of those QBs.

There are other ways to win. The debate will go on forever about Brock Purdy, but the truth is he was the last pick of the seventh round and the 49ers built a championship team around him. That's a blueprint. It's safe to say Jared Goff isn't a top-five quarterback, but the Detroit Lions were a break or two from making a Super Bowl with him.

It's great to have a Patrick Mahomes. That makes life easier. But if you don't have one of those superstars, you can do just fine in the NFL.

Yes Nick Foles won a Super Bowl. But the best chance you have at winning a Super Bowl is having a top 5 / HOF-QB. And over the past 15 years, having a top 5, HOF type QB is about the only way to get to the Super Bowl. Yellow Highlights are the QBs that were average players with a great team around them.

Last 15 years: 30 QBs played in SB and 4 were “average”.




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[MissileMike]

nope. not overlooking anything. you think Williams or any other QB will be better than Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Allen, Jackson? Chances are he's not going to be a top 5 QB. I've said over and over Williams would be great to have but I think Fields will be great so its better to build around him.

Let's say the bears keep JF and trade down. What kind of numbers are you expecting out of him next season?

At minimum (assuming he plays all 17 games) 3400 pass yards 850 rush yards. That about what he would have done this season if he played 17 games. That’s pretty similar to Lamar. I expect to be much better next season with a much better OC than getsy. I wouldn’t be surprised if he finished with that type of yardage and about 30-35 total TDs. 25ish passing 5-10 rushing

Okay so at least you're operating under realistic expectations. Though I'd argue it's not up to Lamar level, since Lamar only played 16 games this season.

[Betta Bulleavit]

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I’m team Justin, but it doesn’t sound like he’s describing him right here

Idk.

Arm talent - check
Throwing quickness -no
Accuracy- at times
Swagger - check
Toughness- check
Physicality - check

It feels like these guys have all been trained up on how not to tip your hand. lol!!

[fleet]

You know what. The White Sox are getting this done.

In a dystopian world where the bloody White Sox get their **** together, and the Bears still don’t, what happens next?

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[ThisGuyFawkes]

Delivery quickness. Not quickness. That’s the key. And Justin is a lot of those other good things, yet he doesn’t exude confidence, swagger, and especially…arrogance.

I think Fields displays a lot of confidence and swagger. Definitely not arrogance. He's a tough, lunch pail type of kid, which I think is why he's so appreciated in Chicago.

Despite the confidence though, he's shown pretty abysmal 4th quarter numbers this season, which leaves a bit to be desired.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

You know what. The White Sox are getting this done.

In a dystopian world where the bloody White Sox get their **** together, and the Bears still don’t, what happens next?

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As a Sox fan, I'll be happy that they stay in Chicago despite the ownership and depressing past few seasons. But yeah, if the Sox can put pressure on the city, what are the Bears doing?

[biggestbullsfan]

Delivery quickness. Not quickness. That’s the key. And Justin is a lot of those other good things, yet he doesn’t exude confidence, swagger, and especially…arrogance.

Ok let’s not fabricate. If Justin has any, it’s swagger. He’s leading all Bear QBs in that department lol

But he’s also super confident. Maybe he doesn’t trust his eyes, but he’s not afraid to put his body on the line to get the first down.

In terms of arrogant, Cutler comes to mind. But that’s the biggest one I can think of. But Justin definitely hits the other two.

[fleet]

Delivery quickness. Not quickness. That’s the key. And Justin is a lot of those other good things, yet he doesn’t exude confidence, swagger, and especially…arrogance.

I think Fields displays a lot of confidence and swagger. Definitely not arrogance. He's a tough, lunch pail type of kid, which I think is why he's so appreciated in Chicago.

Despite the confidence though, he's shown pretty abysmal 4th quarter numbers this season, which leaves a bit to be desired.

coach was probably talking about irrational confidence a quarterback has in ability to throw the ball (mostly) in places and situations that require arrogance to believe they can execute. We do understand that Justin has lots of issues trusting what he sees in coverage.

[fleet]

Delivery quickness. Not quickness. That’s the key. And Justin is a lot of those other good things, yet he doesn’t exude confidence, swagger, and especially…arrogance.

Ok let’s not fabricate. If Justin has any, it’s swagger. He’s leading all Bear QBs in that department lol

But he’s also super confident. Maybe he doesn’t trust his eyes, but he’s not afraid to put his body on the line to get the first down.

In terms of arrogant, Cutler comes to mind. But that’s the biggest one I can think of. But Justin definitely hits the other two.

Justin always looks skittish and unsure. Uncomfortable. He has gotten a little more confidant the last few games. But he definitely has not embodied swagger and arrogance. Anything but. Sure, he has no regard for his safety, but that’s not the same thing.

[_txchilibowl_]

lol

Sorry I should have clarified.

I prefer Sam Howell to Justin Fields when playing quarterback. I would take Fields as a change of pace running back all day.

I don’t think you needed to clarify. Your point was very clear. With that said, besides passing yards, can you identify any other tangible metric by which he was better than Fields??

I was clarifying for the poster who could only muster up a lol. Thought he might need some help.

More passing TDs, more rushing TDs, higher completion percentage, more attempts. I mentioned more attempts because I feel like opportunity is critical in QB development. Fields, through either game planning or simple hesitation, is lacking in that department.

As far as intangibles, Howell already sees the field better than Fields does. Better route tree progressions. Better in the pocket. Quicker decision maker. Better feel for the position in general.

IMO, Howell's first year starting was as good as any that Fields has put up. Granted, that's not saying much but I believe it to be true.

It should be noted I only brought the comparison up in relation to a trade package that was being discussed. Fields was offered up as potential compensation. In that sense, I prefer Howell because he's already in the building and has rapport with his teammates. Not to mention he's about 5 million per season cheaper.

Ultimately, I would prefer neither of them to be my starting quarterback.

[nitetrain8603]

If the question is Howell or Fields, I'll take Fields.

[fleet]

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If all is true then a lot of people are gonna want to be here to either coach or play with Williams. We should be pretty well off, but they really need to nail this offseason.

So, they got the impression that the Bears were drafting Caleb Williams from the Bears, or were just operating on the mere chance to coach CW? If you’re an in-demand guy like Shane Waldron, if you went in with that desire in mind, you would need to get some kind of positive confirmation of what’s going to happen in the draft in order to accept the job offer. And, if that’s the case, these will be easy dots for other teams to connect. So I have a feeling that Bears didn’t want to move this quickly on hirings before a Fields deal was done, and more homework on this class was done. Landing Waldron may have upset the timeline plan.

[NecessaryEvil]

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If all is true then a lot of people are gonna want to be here to either coach or play with Williams. We should be pretty well off, but they really need to nail this offseason.

So, they got the impression that the Bears were drafting Caleb Williams from the Bears, or were just operating on the mere chance to coach CW? If you’re an in-demand guy like Shane Waldron, if you went in with that desire in mind, you would need to get some kind of positive confirmation of what’s going to happen in the draft in order to accept the job offer. And, if that’s the case, these will be easy dots for other teams to connect. So I have a feeling that Bears didn’t want to move this quickly on hirings before a Fields deal was done, and more homework on this class was done. Landing Waldron may have upset the timeline plan

If I’m Shane, I’m not signing without the assurance CW is the pick. I’m sure the coaches know.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Sorry I should have clarified.

I prefer Sam Howell to Justin Fields when playing quarterback. I would take Fields as a change of pace running back all day.

I don’t think you needed to clarify. Your point was very clear. With that said, besides passing yards, can you identify any other tangible metric by which he was better than Fields??

I was clarifying for the poster who could only muster up a lol. Thought he might need some help.

More passing TDs, more rushing TDs, higher completion percentage, more attempts. I mentioned more attempts because I feel like opportunity is critical in QB development. Fields, through either game planning or simple hesitation, is lacking in that department.

As far as intangibles, Howell already sees the field better than Fields does. Better route tree progressions. Better in the pocket. Quicker decision maker. Better feel for the position in general.

IMO, Howell's first year starting was as good as any that Fields has put up. Granted, that's not saying much but I believe it to be true.

It should be noted I only brought the comparison up in relation to a trade package that was being discussed. Fields was offered up as potential compensation. In that sense, I prefer Howell because he's already in the building and has rapport with his teammates. Not to mention he's about 5 million per season cheaper.

Ultimately, I would prefer neither of them to be my starting quarterback.

No. Just no. He had more passing and rushing touchdowns by virtue of playing 4 more games. Fields Yards per completion was better. His TD to INT ratio was better (21 INTs??!! Hello!!). Howell was sacked more. Fields had a better QBR. Fields was the better quarterback and there’s really not much of a discussion to be had as far as I’m concerned.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Delivery quickness. Not quickness. That’s the key. And Justin is a lot of those other good things, yet he doesn’t exude confidence, swagger, and especially…arrogance.

Ok let’s not fabricate. If Justin has any, it’s swagger. He’s leading all Bear QBs in that department lol

But he’s also super confident. Maybe he doesn’t trust his eyes, but he’s not afraid to put his body on the line to get the first down.

In terms of arrogant, Cutler comes to mind. But that’s the biggest one I can think of. But Justin definitely hits the other two.

Justin always looks skittish and unsure. Uncomfortable. He has gotten a little more confidant the last few games. But he definitely has not embodied swagger and arrogance. Anything but. Sure, he has no regard for his safety, but that’s not the same thing.

Swagger is more about confidence than arrogance. I suppose everyone has their own definition of swagger but I’ve always considered it as an aura of confidence in yourself that attracts others to you making them inclined to follow your lead.

[fleet]

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If all is true then a lot of people are gonna want to be here to either coach or play with Williams. We should be pretty well off, but they really need to nail this offseason.

So, they got the impression that the Bears were drafting Caleb Williams from the Bears, or were just operating on the mere chance to coach CW? If you’re an in-demand guy like Shane Waldron, if you went in with that desire in mind, you would need to get some kind of positive confirmation of what’s going to happen in the draft in order to accept the job offer. And, if that’s the case, these will be easy dots for other teams to connect. So I have a feeling that Bears didn’t want to move this quickly on hirings before a Fields deal was done, and more homework on this class was done. Landing Waldron may have upset the timeline plan

If I’m Shane, I’m not signing without the assurance CW is the pick. I’m sure the coaches know.

If I’m not mistaken, there was no second round of interviews. The Bears just nailed Waldron down while all that talk of other teams getting involved with him was swirling. It seems like they rushed it forward. He had some leverage to play, so you wonder what he needed to close the deal aside from money.

[biggestbullsfan]

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Some good stuff in here