NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[RB34]

At the end of the day this is a person who has feelings and people treat him like garbage. Social media has done so much to ruin the world.

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Embiid loves social media trolling. If I remember correctly his handle was “troel” or something to that effect.

[HotRocks34]

Embiid PPG now down to 35.3

Luka at 34.7

Embiid went from 36.0 to 35.3 in one game.

There's a chance that Embiid could miss out on both the MVP and the scoring title after recently looking like he was on his way to securing them.

[AleksandarN]

What you're going to notice in these next couple of days is fake empathy from Jokic stans/ faux Nuggets fans. They don't care about Embiid being injured, they're now relieved that he's likely out of the MVP race and (and probably the season) and their guy is now in pole position. Ignore them.

If this is the end for Embiid this season, I'll remember this year as a standard setting year, the greatest ever by a single player.

Assumption and ignorance, something we all have yet as an individual you don’t have to publicly state it outright, poor form.

Extactly. Cowardly way to put things.

[eyeatoma]

At the end of the day this is a person who has feelings and people treat him like garbage. Social media has done so much to ruin the world.

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Embiid loves social media trolling. If I remember correctly his handle was “troel” or something to that effect.

True

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[DCasey91]

Not the first and certainly not the last time that clubs have put players into situations where they shouldn’t play. It’s a factor of things including the players individual ego but at the end of the day the docs make the call.

Embiid, KD I’m sure Giannis and ages ago D Rose wasn’t good to go.

It’s 2023 fine to be macho or whatever have you injuries occur frequently in Sports that’s just the nature but seriously a little professionalism would go a long way.

Could be worse he could be a professional fighter.

Get well big oaf.

[HotRocks34]

Wow.

Embiid has fallen to 5th on two boards. He's cratering.

Luka is lingering but Dallas probably isn't good enough for him to stay in the chase.

You're clearly overjoyed.

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This is where things stand, and I can't say I'm surprised because of who is involved.

There's a part of me that feels bad for Embiid, but he played his role in the wrongdoing last year so my sympathy is tempered.

It's important for the league's media and award voters to learn the lesson here. Stop pushing regular-season frontrunners and stick with the guys who have proven they show up when it matters.

[Wolfgang630]

No one can see someone landing on your leg like that. That’s not something that happens all the time.

[Bob8]

Can you please tell me what would have happened with Luka's +/-; on/off, if he would got 4 very good starters, and his bench would have been worse? My wild guess is that bad starting 5, who are injured a lot, has a lot with those numbers. Mavs bench on the other hand is pretty solid with THJ&co. I doubt very much that Jokic could have had much better results playing with Green, Hardy, DDJ, Williams, Exum...Kyrie is injured nonstop.

Mavs have far the worse starters between playoffs teams, when Kyrie is out, that's a lot of the time, Luka basically plays with bench players all the time against opponents starters. Kinda difficult to have good +/- in this circumstances.

SGA is a great example for that. Very bad +/-; on/off and he gets proper starters and his +/- suddenly skyrockets. Coincidence? I don't think so. All players with great +/- have great starting units.

Those debates are academic anyway, nobody cares about +/- or RS games. Luka needs to win a title or two, if he wants to be recognised as a great player, unfortunately he can't with the roster he has at the moment, +/- is right there.

I'm talking about a trend over Luka's entire career, so when you're suggesting that if he simply had good co-starters and worse bench teammates his on/off would look like a normal superstar, you're saying this about 6 years worth of play. Does that not seem strange to you?

Re: SGA as example of great teammates skyrocketing star's +/-. Well, SGA's on/off is towering over his teammates. The idea that if Luka only had better teammates he's separate himself from them more doesn't make a lot of sense.

Re: nobody cares about RS anyway. I mean, this is a discussion about an RS award. If you didn't care, you wouldn't be here.

You should ask yourself, if efficient near 35 points triple double, while being far the most doubled player in the league, is not impactful, maybe something is wrong with measurement. Maybe measuring impact of the lineups and impact of individual players is not the same?

Why he’s far the most doubled player in the league, if his impact on the game isn’t big? Or just maybe teams know that his teammates won’t punish them playing 4/3 and rather risk open shots and take ball out of his hands, because that’s better option than defending him straight.

Even far the most efficient 70+ points game, near triple double, in the history of the game, didn't bring exactly epic +/-, because other teammates didn't do enough in D. Luka + 4 good defenders, who can hit open shots averagely, would be title contenders immediately.

+/- would be great for measuring impact of superstars, if they would have very similar teammates. Expecting that player who's playing with players, who would in other teams be on the bench, can have similar +/- is totally unrealistic. Ask yourself how many Mavs starters, except Kyrie, who is out a lot, would start in Celtics, Bucks, Nuggets, Thunder, Clippers....? No one would. But on the other hand, they would like to have some Mavs bench players.

So you're saying that SGA has become impactful player getting a lot better overnight and not because he got much better support? This that really makes sense for you? Bad first 4 seasons, average in 5th and a monster in 6th, when he finally has good supporting cast. Or maybe he became impactful player in off season and Chet&co don't matter anything.

[Bob8]

They couldn’t contend…. Because well injuries. Jokic carried those lists to 47/48 wins respectively

How many wins you reckon u could get with this:

Barton
Morris
Green
Gordon
League average starting C

Over or under 20?

And how many wins you would get with Hardy, Green, Williams, Lively and league average Pg?

Over or under 10?

ur exaggerating
in terms of total mins played this season the top 5 for the Mavs are (in that order)
Luka, THJ, Grant Williams, Jones JR and Lively

just last season Williams was giving the fake Mvpiid a hard time in the playoffs, Embiid had to stomp on his head to neutralize him
he was seen as an elite 3&D role player, isn't that the type u wanted the Mavs to acquire? he was the 6th man on a deep Celtics deep that went to the ECF. in 2021-22, he was only 23 years old and played the 4th most mins in the finals vs. the Dubs

now he's some worthless scrub?
THJ is a decent NBA player, Lively has been more than serviceable

Barton is a negative player that shouldnt have been playing on a good team, let alone starting on a playoff team
Uncle Jeff was completely washed, he was much worse than Exum or Derrick Jones Jr. that season
Morris is just a replacement level player, what's the difference between Monte Morris and Josh Green?

yes, the Mavs need better starters and better bench to be serious contenders, that's hardly news
we've been comparing the Nuggets roster to the Mavs roster for like 3 straight years...they were pretty comparable

When Nuggets got healthy they had a better squad but before than they were pretty even, both very lacking.

I'm not saying that that 2021/22 Denver roster was better, I'm saying that Denver in 2021/22 was not much better than Mavs in 2023/24. And I'm pretty sure that Jokic with Josh/Grant/DJJ and THJ can't do anything special either.

Grant started great in Mavs and then has fallen off the cliff until recently. And if you like +/-, on/off, check his. He should be sent in G-league immediately based on that.

[AussieBuck]

Ask yourself how many Mavs starters, except Kyrie, who is out a lot, would start in Celtics, Bucks, Nuggets, Thunder, Clippers....? No one would. But on the other hand, they would like to have some Mavs bench players.

Exum would be an amazing fit on the Bucks at SG, Josh Green wouldn't be a bad option either.

[One Last Shot]

Congrats to majority of the posters in this thread who hate and thrash Embiid on daily basis. Did he already prove he's already injured and didn't ducked Jokic in Denver based on tonight's game seeing how hurt he is but still trying to play after all the slander he get the past few days? Doesn't matter anyway, seems like his new injury tonight will take weeks if not months before he can play again. Should be fun for some of you seeing him go down like that.

[AleksandarN]

Well now do you see he was actually hurt the hole time? Gee I wonder why he wasn't on the injury report. Could it be he actually wanted TY play against Denver but couldn't? Could it be that the pressure from fans acusing him of ducking was getting to him?

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This tweet sums it perfectly by swipa (I know you probably don’t like the guy but he makes great points)

Read on Twitter

I saw it.

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Is he wrong?

[AleksandarN]

Congrats to majority of the posters in this thread who hate and thrash Embiid on daily basis. Did he already prove he's already injured and didn't ducked Jokic in Denver based on tonight's game seeing how hurt he is but still trying to play after all the slander he get the past few days? Doesn't matter anyway, seems like his new injury tonight will take weeks if not months before he can play again. Should be fun for some of you seeing him go down like that.

Who hates Embiid and is having fun seeing him injured? This victim mentality that sometimes Philly fans have is crazy. It’s not just basketball either.

[Bob8]

[instagram][/instagram]

Ask yourself how many Mavs starters, except Kyrie, who is out a lot, would start in Celtics, Bucks, Nuggets, Thunder, Clippers....? No one would. But on the other hand, they would like to have some Mavs bench players.

Exum would be an amazing fit on the Bucks at SG, Josh Green wouldn't be a bad option either.

I see you like your countrymen very much. Exum plays very well for Mavs, but has unfortunately again big problems with injuries.

Josh played few good games, but isn't having good season till now. He's very energetic but very limited in everything else and his D, is not exceptional either. Exum is better in everything. Josh is not starting material in a serious team.

Beasley is much better shooter than both of them, which is kinda important playing with Giannis. And maybe the most important thing that he's always available. Exum and Josh have already missed 28 games together.

[OverAndOut]

Many people on here have repeatedly said that Embiid’s play style of flopping to the ground multiple times a game causes wear and tear and eventually injury, especially given his size. That’s not the same thing as them “cheering” for his injury last night.

[eyeatoma]

Congrats to majority of the posters in this thread who hate and thrash Embiid on daily basis. Did he already prove he's already injured and didn't ducked Jokic in Denver based on tonight's game seeing how hurt he is but still trying to play after all the slander he get the past few days? Doesn't matter anyway, seems like his new injury tonight will take weeks if not months before he can play again. Should be fun for some of you seeing him go down like that.

Who hates Embiid and is having fun seeing him injured? This victim mentality that sometimes Philly fans have is crazy. It’s not just basketball either.

Go ahead and look at the Joel Ducks again thread that you created that has more than 15 pages. It is full of all the posters who dislike Joel for whatever reason, and gives them an opportunity to pile on. You may not dislike him, but you definitely feed into the ridiculous conspiracy narrative that has been perpetuated online.

He was not ducking. Clear as day. This injury, and how he was belabouring on the court during the entire warriors game should make that clear as day to you.

[eyeatoma]

This tweet sums it perfectly by swipa (I know you probably don’t like the guy but he makes great points)

Read on Twitter

I saw it.

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Is he wrong?

Stop with your moral high ground. What should be happening is this entire board should be apologising for the **** they gave this man. Instead you're trying to say, ooooh, bad sixers, bad Embiid for putting him out there when he was hurt, what were they thinking. Sure it was irresponsible. But why oh why might they have done this? Hmmm I have no idea... Oh yeah, maybe because of the assinine conspiracy that was created by fans and some media members. Just lol.

[losmi]

I saw it.

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Is he wrong?

Stop with your moral high ground. What should be happening is this entire board should be apologising for the **** they gave this man. Instead you're trying to say, ooooh, bad sixers, bad Embiid for putting him out there when he was hurt, what were they thinking. Sure it was irresponsible. But why oh why might they have done this? Hmmm I have no idea... Oh yeah, maybe because of the assinine conspiracy that was created by fans and some media members. Just lol.

Now we have come from blaming teammates and coaches, through the medical staff and the organization, to blaming the fans for Embiid's failures.

He didn't play because of the "conspiracy". He played to chase awards. And now the whole world should be responsible for someone's obsession with personal stats and accoladed.

[eyeatoma]

Is he wrong?

Stop with your moral high ground. What should be happening is this entire board should be apologising for the **** they gave this man. Instead you're trying to say, ooooh, bad sixers, bad Embiid for putting him out there when he was hurt, what were they thinking. Sure it was irresponsible. But why oh why might they have done this? Hmmm I have no idea... Oh yeah, maybe because of the assinine conspiracy that was created by fans and some media members. Just lol.

Now we have come from blaming teammates and coaches, through the medical staff and the organization, to blaming the fans for Embiid's failures.

He didn't play because of the "conspiracy". He played to chase awards. And now the whole world should be responsible for someone's obsession with personal stats and accoladed.

I'm saying there is a psychological component involved. The majority of NBA fans have shamed him for their wild DISPROVED theories. Frankly this is disgusting. If this was in a workplace, school, college, this would be bullying and it was done by general public it would be considered blatant bullying.

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[Bob8]

I saw it.

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Is he wrong?

Stop with your moral high ground. What should be happening is this entire board should be apologising for the **** they gave this man. Instead you're trying to say, ooooh, bad sixers, bad Embiid for putting him out there when he was hurt, what were they thinking. Sure it was irresponsible. But why oh why might they have done this? Hmmm I have no idea... Oh yeah, maybe because of the assinine conspiracy that was created by fans and some media members. Just lol.

I believe that injured player is playing RS game only, if he himself wants to. It was stupid and he probably should be stopped, but nobody is stopping modern superstars from doing anything nowadays. He played because of the new rules for rewards, not because he was bullied by the fans.