Moderators: Dirk, HMFFL, Mavrelous
Realtalk420 wrote:tleikheen wrote:Btw Simmons will probably win the ROY this year too...
You think you're funny ,you reduce yourself and you're opinions as worthless to look at ......Most of us have been watching BB for along time and you make statements that are ridicules.
Oh, the irony
ozwizard8 wrote:tleikheen wrote:Everybody has something bad and negative to say about Ben Simmons but he makes a team better despite his FT's and lack of 3 pts attempts and makes. His defensive toughness and ability to guard 1 thru 5 on the court very few teams have. The guy plays on winning teams and has his hands on the ball offensively and defensively all the time . I'm still waiting on someone to show all of us how he contributes to losing when his team usually wins when he's playing.
Healthy Ben Simmons was an All-NBA talent. I mean he was making All-NBA team for a reason.
He was able to switch anyone on the court. He was the best Luka defender throughout the NBA. He is pretty good as help defender too. Lots of steals, great transition player for offense and even defense. He can rebound pretty good due to his physical advantage too.
I think what made him a laughing stock was more related to health problems than mental ones. And its hard to claim that he can stay healthy and play 60 games now. So he is more of a minus asset due to his max deal. If gets waived, I am pretty sure many teams would call him for vet. min signing.
BliscoSantos wrote:New York is interested in Eason(Grimes for Eason swap)...if Eason is on the market Mavs should jump.. he's the type of Player they need,only problem is he's been dealing with injuries,but maybe they can get him on a cheap
Maverick41 wrote:BliscoSantos wrote:New York is interested in Eason(Grimes for Eason swap)...if Eason is on the market Mavs should jump.. he's the type of Player they need,only problem is he's been dealing with injuries,but maybe they can get him on a cheap
Would be amazing but I'd be shocked if HOU lets him go. He's the perfect archetype for what we need. Big forward, can shoot decent, defends well and an elite rebounder for his position.
I do wonder with HOU if they will consider moving Brooks to make room for Eason, Whitmore and Amen to play. Doesn't seem to be any indications of it but it makes sense if they're not a playoff/play-in team in the next week or so. I know the guy is annoying but he would add the defensive intensity and dog the team needs.
dirkules_41 wrote:daoneandonly wrote:The most important ability is availability. It's not just a catchy saying, it's fact. Kyrie doesn't provide that, there's no arguing that
That's about the truest thing on this page of the thread. His availibility is a real issue.
On court when he is available he is one of our better defenders (imo after Dante our best defender at 1 and 2 - both stats and eyeball test attest to that) and his offensive qualities don't need to be discussed at all. But something needs to improve about the availibility.
Ozwizards takes are wild to say the least...
joesha1698 wrote:ozwizard8 wrote:tleikheen wrote:Everybody has something bad and negative to say about Ben Simmons but he makes a team better despite his FT's and lack of 3 pts attempts and makes. His defensive toughness and ability to guard 1 thru 5 on the court very few teams have. The guy plays on winning teams and has his hands on the ball offensively and defensively all the time . I'm still waiting on someone to show all of us how he contributes to losing when his team usually wins when he's playing.
Healthy Ben Simmons was an All-NBA talent. I mean he was making All-NBA team for a reason.
He was able to switch anyone on the court. He was the best Luka defender throughout the NBA. He is pretty good as help defender too. Lots of steals, great transition player for offense and even defense. He can rebound pretty good due to his physical advantage too.
I think what made him a laughing stock was more related to health problems than mental ones. And its hard to claim that he can stay healthy and play 60 games now. So he is more of a minus asset due to his max deal. If gets waived, I am pretty sure many teams would call him for vet. min signing.
Funny how you defend Ben Simmons but have a hard On about Kyrie Irving, lol. Laughable.
Deuteronomy 30:19 wrote:I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live
ozwizard8 wrote:dirkules_41 wrote:daoneandonly wrote:The most important ability is availability. It's not just a catchy saying, it's fact. Kyrie doesn't provide that, there's no arguing that
That's about the truest thing on this page of the thread. His availibility is a real issue.
On court when he is available he is one of our better defenders (imo after Dante our best defender at 1 and 2 - both stats and eyeball test attest to that) and his offensive qualities don't need to be discussed at all. But something needs to improve about the availibility.
Ozwizards takes are wild to say the least...
no need for takes.
Kyrie is a franchise destroyer. Last 7 years and 7 miserable seasons for those teams.
Since Kyrie came here look at:
-how many games he missed?
-how many games they won and lose with Luka?
Mavs-Luka team was a lock for playoffs. It became a team struggling to make playoffs.
I am putting up solid arguments, facts. Some people here acting as if their feelings are hurts. Sorry for those people.
Kyrie cancer is real. Every symptom is showing for more than 1 year. Ask for treatment not for copium.
joesha1698 wrote:
Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka. So, let's talk about Luka.
Mavrelous wrote:joesha1698 wrote:
Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka. So, let's talk about Luka.
Luka >> Kyrie, it really isn't close, Kyrie imagined he can be #1 and went to the Celtics to have his own team, and he met reality very fast, he's still a very good player.
About the rest, this may go with an average fan who didn't watch or pay attention, but it won't go with those of us who actually watched and followed, just some absurd statements that have very little to do with reality.
joesha1698 wrote:My opinion about Kyrie being better than Luka is no disrespect to Luka. But pound for pound Kyrie and many of the shorter players in the NBA. But pound for pound, Kyrie is better than most guys in the NBA.
I would make one exception for steph curry who is the most accomplish player pound for pound in the NBA. But even Steph Curry talent wise is lower than Kyrie. But he has 4 rings so - in terms of accomplishment you gotta give it to him. Accomplishments do out weight talent.
All im saying is, if you really pay attention to basketball - taller player / bigger player have incredible advantages over smaller players and that's why they put up better numbers - easier. Take a guy like Jason Tatum, he's not a better basketball player than Kyrie Irving. Many parts of his game are very average at best but he makes up for it with being 6'9.
But if were actually judging by actual skill - if Luka was 6'2.5 (like Kyrie) he would have no shot against Kyrie with his current game. He's too slow, he couldnt shoot over people, and he doesn't finish at the basket as well as Kyrie. And he's no where near as great a dribbler.
Luka is very talented player who is very good at what he does at HIS SIZE - thats where the advantage is.
Mavrelous wrote:joesha1698 wrote:My opinion about Kyrie being better than Luka is no disrespect to Luka. But pound for pound Kyrie and many of the shorter players in the NBA. But pound for pound, Kyrie is better than most guys in the NBA.
I would make one exception for steph curry who is the most accomplish player pound for pound in the NBA. But even Steph Curry talent wise is lower than Kyrie. But he has 4 rings so - in terms of accomplishment you gotta give it to him. Accomplishments do out weight talent.
All im saying is, if you really pay attention to basketball - taller player / bigger player have incredible advantages over smaller players and that's why they put up better numbers - easier. Take a guy like Jason Tatum, he's not a better basketball player than Kyrie Irving. Many parts of his game are very average at best but he makes up for it with being 6'9.
But if were actually judging by actual skill - if Luka was 6'2.5 (like Kyrie) he would have no shot against Kyrie with his current game. He's too slow, he couldnt shoot over people, and he doesn't finish at the basket as well as Kyrie. And he's no where near as great a dribbler.
Luka is very talented player who is very good at what he does at HIS SIZE - thats where the advantage is.
Size is king in basketball, but it's elusive, 6'8" guy shouldn't be able to split double teams and blitzes by guard+big, yet Luka does it like drinking water, Kyrie can't see over the double team and make skip passes, or post up anyone from guards to centers, this is why Luka is Luka, and Kyrie is Kyrie (or Trae Young for that matter).
Pound for pound is an irrelevant argument, players play with their size, players like Dirk and KD are top 20 all time because they had unblockable release 1st and foremost.
joesha1698 wrote:ozwizard8 wrote:dirkules_41 wrote:That's about the truest thing on this page of the thread. His availibility is a real issue.
On court when he is available he is one of our better defenders (imo after Dante our best defender at 1 and 2 - both stats and eyeball test attest to that) and his offensive qualities don't need to be discussed at all. But something needs to improve about the availibility.
Ozwizards takes are wild to say the least...
no need for takes.
Kyrie is a franchise destroyer. Last 7 years and 7 miserable seasons for those teams.
Since Kyrie came here look at:
-how many games he missed?
-how many games they won and lose with Luka?
Mavs-Luka team was a lock for playoffs. It became a team struggling to make playoffs.
I am putting up solid arguments, facts. Some people here acting as if their feelings are hurts. Sorry for those people.
Kyrie cancer is real. Every symptom is showing for more than 1 year. Ask for treatment not for copium.
Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka. So, let's talk about Luka.
Luka is a product of a NBA that relaxed defense to promote a more free flowing international style that is softer and that benefits the guard play. The causal fan rather watch a high scoring game than a low scoring one - per Adam Silver. Mark Cuban and his hench man (Jason Kidd) purposely allows Luka to run an offense where he has the ball 80% of the time -where it glorifies him while his teammates are reduced to standing around. Its the same style and reason James Harden never won anything with Mike Dantoni but had amazing numbers. It's the same reason that Porzingis couldn't play with Luka and neither could Jalen Brunson play with him long term. Porzingis was reduced to a corner while Luka pads his stats. Brunson knew that Luka will have the ball 80% of the time and ultimately it wouldn't compliment his game. Kyrie can play off the ball and is a natural scorer - so he was more willing to accept this role because he had rubbed some people in the league the wrong way and was on thin ice. However, make no mistake about it, Luka was getting his arse kissed by Rick Carlise (and it fractured the locker room) and Jason Kidd might treat the other teammates better but Luka still dominates the ball, plays no defense, is selfish towards his teammates (ive watched him completely ignore his teammates when they reach out to nap him up) and he whines to the refs all game long. No one has stepped in to tell him his behavior is unacceptable or to play some freaking defense. Jason Kidd calling him on the level of Kobe, Lebron, or Jordan is a joke. He isn't even better than Dirk yet when you consider there was more physicality when Dirk played and who he had to go through to make the finals and win rings. Also, Dirk was a better leader. Didn't whine like a softy all game.
In closing:
1.Luke's style of play - where he needs to dominate the ball - limits the kind of players he can play with. The more talented players will not accept standing around while he dribbles ala Harden, which they shouldn't. History has shown that two allstar players have done better since leaving him. Now, he has Kyrie Irving. That will be 3 players if this doesn't work out. Lebron had less talent at 22 and made the finals in a more physical league.
2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.
3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.
4.Luka whines to the refs almost every play. I've never seen a great player do this every play. It makes him look mentally soft. He recently kicked out a fan for telling him to get on the treadmill and admitted he overreacted - which confirms he is often mentally soft.
5.Luka is 24 years old. But his style of play (high usage/ball dominate) will be a big problem as his gets towards his 30s if not before. Why? He isnt nearly dedicated to his body like Lebron, Jordan, and Kobe...and let's face it - he doesn't have any natural advantages over those guys in that area. Which is why he has to be even more diligent in the area of taking care of his body.
My prediction is that Luka career will probably be cut short by injuries because of his style of play and the fact that I do not believe he has the discipline to take care of his body the way he needs to.
6. Last point, it was more Luka's fault the Mavs didnt make the playoffs last year. He's the best player (because of his size) on the team. He's the franchise player. Who's job is it to g-teed the team makes the playoffs? If that was Lebron James or Kobe Bryant - they would be blamed. So, why blame the guy who came here half a season? Its a cop out. Truthfully, if we were assigning blame it would the Mavs, Luka, and then Kyrie can take some blame. In 20 games for the Mavs in 2022 - Kyrie was 51% from the field, 39% from the 3, 95% from the FT, 5rpg, 6apg, 27ppg. He did his job. The Mavs failed and Luka failed more than Kyrie. But the fact that you blame Kyrie - proves how un-objective you are about Luka. Its the best player's job to lead. But because Luka is such a one sided player (once they traded his defense away, because he doesnt play any) his scoring did not matter. Kyrie's scoring did not matter. The Mavs could not stop anyone (just like now) and that's why they missed the playoffs. If Luka was a better leader and actually played defense - like a Lebron or Kobe - or even like Giannis they probably would have still made the playoffs or the play in.
Archx wrote:Call me a Luka homer or whatever but if this dude talked about Dirk in his playing days, i would have wrote the same.
Does anyone else have a feeling that joesha1698 just quietly popped up this year on Mavs and general board forums to **** on Doncic, or is it just me? His fan fiction twists of his stats and playstyle often don't look anything as it is in reality.
He wrote to someone...
Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka..
I honestly have no clue how to even begin explaining this. We know these are Kenyon Martin's words from Gil Arenas podcast but everyone also know by now Kenyon's racists remarks extend to Jokic aswell.
And then these few brilliant statements.
2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.
From Zach Lowe the other day.
Opponents have scored only 0.83 points per possession on isolations against Doncic -- 49th among 320 guys who have defended at least 20 such plays, per Second Spectrum. He's even stouter on the block; opponents have managed 0.533 points per possession directly out of post-ups against Doncic -- second lowest among players who have guarded at least 20 such plays.
This would effectively make him on of the best iso and post defender players in the league. He's obviously not exactly that but to say he plays zero defense is idiotic. Every year since he has been with the Mavs, he regulary was in top3 all defensive impact metric statistics on this team. Even when Mavs had one year when they were 6th best DRTg team, he had 2nd best ratings on the team.
And if Mavs still have bad team defense, then we should look for problems elsewhere like THJ for example. If this dude would pay attention to how THJ tries to guard anyone he would be laughing like i was last game vs Wolves. And THJ plays a ton of minutes.
3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.
Year after year he's nr1 half court player in the league, he was also nr1 ranked in easiest and most shots created by a player, even ahead of Jokic. If Luka is selfish then Jokic should be sent to China.
Another example how "horrible" Luka is for this team from this year. And this was even before his recent explosion.
"Since being told to get on a treadmill Luka Doncic has played 45 minutes a night averaging 49 PTS, 13 AST, 10 REB on 54.2% FG, 37% 3P, 85% FT "
