Game 47: Pistons @ Cavaliers 7PM EST

[whitehops]

I don’t believe every coach does this when a player they have faith in has the ball. If Cade had that ball, he would not have called a timeout. Monty has been consistent in not wanting Jaden to have the ball. He was putting the ball in Killian’s hands before ownership had to step in. I don’t think he likes the guy and I’m not sure why. Even when he was getting his lip treated, Monty gave him this bizarre side eye. No words of encouragement, just a side eye glare. I’ve never seen anything like this.

And to top it off, I’m starting to see it from some of the teammates too. Stewart and Bojan both seem very reluctant to pass to Ivey. It reminds me of the old days when Tayshaun would ice young guys out and the end of his career.

It’s almost like Monty tasted success with PHX and is now like “Cade is my CP3 and Killian is my Cameron Payne. If Ivey can’t be Devin Booker, then he’s useless to me”

Maybe I’ve lost my mind, but I’ve never seen this type of player coach relationship without a justifiable reason.

i don't think it goes that deep, it's just that monty (and every coach in the league) is trying to run a 0.5 offense and ivey still struggles with processing and decision-making. when he has the ball his answer is almost always to drive and then figure it out from there. there's a reason why ivey has been so bad in the clutch, when a team buckles down defensively and ivey has to make quick and good decisions he usually doesn't.

when you're relying on guys to make the right play to execute the offense it's harder to trust volatile guys like ivey.

[ComboGuardCity]

I don’t believe every coach does this when a player they have faith in has the ball. If Cade had that ball, he would not have called a timeout. Monty has been consistent in not wanting Jaden to have the ball. He was putting the ball in Killian’s hands before ownership had to step in. I don’t think he likes the guy and I’m not sure why. Even when he was getting his lip treated, Monty gave him this bizarre side eye. No words of encouragement, just a side eye glare. I’ve never seen anything like this.

And to top it off, I’m starting to see it from some of the teammates too. Stewart and Bojan both seem very reluctant to pass to Ivey. It reminds me of the old days when Tayshaun would ice young guys out and the end of his career.

It’s almost like Monty tasted success with PHX and is now like “Cade is my CP3 and Killian is my Cameron Payne. If Ivey can’t be Devin Booker, then he’s useless to me”

Maybe I’ve lost my mind, but I’ve never seen this type of player coach relationship without a justifiable reason.

i don't think it goes that deep, it's just that monty (and every coach in the league) is trying to run a 0.5 offense and ivey still struggles with processing and decision-making. when he has the ball his answer is almost always to drive and then figure it out from there. there's a reason why ivey has been so bad in the clutch, when a team buckles down defensively and ivey has to make quick and good decisions he usually doesn't.

when you're relying on guys to make the right play to execute the offense it's harder to trust volatile guys like ivey.

Adjusted for position, Ivey’s turnover rate is better than Bojan’s. The entire team has struggled in the clutch or when teams clamp down and the pistons throw it away 5 times in a row. I don’t buy that Ivey’s decision making should be used against him when his peers are no better.

[Billl]

It's pretty clear none of our young guys know how to play against pressure. Not shocking, but when you put them out there against teams playing aggressive D, turnovers and bad shots are coming. And really, they haven't gotten much/any better at it the last year and a half.

They won't get better at it until they start having to practice against it every day. At this point, they should probably go sign hamidou diallo for the rest of the season. Not to play him in games or anything, but just put him and Ausar out there every practice and tell them to just pressure the hell out of cade and Ivey.

[MortSahlfan]

I'm no Monty fan, but I don't see any animosity toward Ivey. He struggles on both ends, but in the last 10 games, he's trying harder, which he should have been doing from Day 1, but it's a start, and he's getting plenty of minutes, but has been in foul trouble.

I just don't understand why Ausar is barely playing. I think he brings more than Knox.

[NYPiston]

you'd be surprised how many all-nba players didn't even become full-time starters until their 3rd seasons. having your vets carry the team and the young players learning how to contribute to competitive/winning basketball in smaller roles is a great way to develop. that way when they're ready to take over the reins they'll have winning habits built in.

my favourite example is the celtics. jaylen brown, jaylen brown and marcus smart didn't have big roles for their first like 3 seasons and were surrounded by vets. in the 2020 season they moved on from irving and tatum and brown were ready to step into a main role, but again were surrounded by vets. i think it's a much better way to build teams for sustained success.

Yes but the difference is that the Celtics were winners from the moment those two stepped on an NBA court and by their 3rd season, the young guys made some serious progression. I'm not seeing any of that from the Pistons youth and, in fact, I'm seeing regression across the board so when I see close games driven by guys who won't be here 1-2 years from now while the youth can't play any semblance of fundamental winning basketball I see these close games as more discouraging than encouraging.

If there was an uptick of the young guys performance while the vets also played a big role then that would be a different story but we're not seeing that here. I'm not going to elaborate on Monty's role in this because I've beaten that to death already but....not good, not good at all.

[DetroitSho]

you'd be surprised how many all-nba players didn't even become full-time starters until their 3rd seasons. having your vets carry the team and the young players learning how to contribute to competitive/winning basketball in smaller roles is a great way to develop. that way when they're ready to take over the reins they'll have winning habits built in.

my favourite example is the celtics. jaylen brown, jaylen brown and marcus smart didn't have big roles for their first like 3 seasons and were surrounded by vets. in the 2020 season they moved on from irving and tatum and brown were ready to step into a main role, but again were surrounded by vets. i think it's a much better way to build teams for sustained success.

Yes but the difference is that the Celtics were winners from the moment those two stepped on an NBA court and by their 3rd season, the young guys made some serious progression. I'm not seeing any of that from the Pistons youth and, in fact, I'm seeing regression across the board so when I see close games driven by guys who won't be here 1-2 years from now while the youth can't play any semblance of fundamental winning basketball I see these close games as more discouraging than encouraging.

If there was an uptick of the young guys performance while the vets also played a big role then that would be a different story but we're not seeing that here. I'm not going to elaborate on Monty's role in this because I've beaten that to death already but....not good, not good at all.

Cade is the only one of our core in their 3rd year and he hasn't even played 2 years worth of games. So this ain't even an apples to apples comparison. Even in this technical 2nd year of Cade, you have indeed seen progress. And by the way, Tatum was given the "he's still young" excuse for like forever for not coming through in important situations.

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[vege]

The execution at the end of the game was pathetic.

I have no idea why Ivey was on the court. He was ignored on offense, Cade/Bojan and Burks were the only ones touching the ball, and they all missed important easy shots.

Mitchell was torching us, and instead of putting Ausar to guard him, we continued to play Ivey, who's a bad defender and did nothing on offense.

Cade was terrible on defense as well.

Our 2nd unit was great, and they put us in a great position to win this game. Cade/Ivey/Duren/Monty Williams lost it and it was ugly.

I thought Mitchell scored most of his points on Cade. Would be interesting to see the stats on that.


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It was on both, Cade and Ivey. They were both terrible. Ausar would've done a much better job guarding him.

[vege]

Man, so close... In the 1st half, I saw Monte Morris get frustrated and say something to Kevin Knox, who seems like he's chillin' all game, even when he hits a 3. It's almost like, "Oh, this is a ball. I'm gonna shoot it. Cool." (then he puts his sunglasses back on).

I wish we had fans who could lipread. Curious what Donovan was telling Ivey. The best tip I can give it to mute the volume and try that way.

The problem with that play is, Monte Morris gambled and tried to get a steal, he got beaten by the guy, and Knox did not cover. Morris was wrong. He had no right to complain.

[MortSahlfan]

Man, so close... In the 1st half, I saw Monte Morris get frustrated and say something to Kevin Knox, who seems like he's chillin' all game, even when he hits a 3. It's almost like, "Oh, this is a ball. I'm gonna shoot it. Cool." (then he puts his sunglasses back on).

I wish we had fans who could lipread. Curious what Donovan was telling Ivey. The best tip I can give it to mute the volume and try that way.

The problem with that play is, Monte Morris gambled and tried to get a steal, he got beaten by the guy, and Knox did not cover. Morris was wrong. He had no right to complain.

Thanks for clearing that up. That's one thing I never see between players, with the exception of Ivey yelling at Killian because he didn't pass him the ball right after giving it to him. He had his hands out beyond the 3pt line calling for it a second later, and Ivey kinda lost it, and even took it to the huddle before commercial.