Dallas Mavericks 2023/24 Trade thread

[Archx]

Spoiler:

Call me a Luka homer or whatever but if this dude talked about Dirk in his playing days, i would have wrote the same.

Does anyone else have a feeling that joesha1698 just quietly popped up this year on Mavs and general board forums to **** on Doncic, or is it just me? His fan fiction twists of his stats and playstyle often don't look anything as it is in reality.

He wrote to someone...

Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka..

I honestly have no clue how to even begin explaining this. We know these are Kenyon Martin's words from Gil Arenas podcast but everyone also know by now Kenyon's racists remarks extend to Jokic aswell.

And then these few brilliant statements.

2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.

From Zach Lowe the other day.

Opponents have scored only 0.83 points per possession on isolations against Doncic -- 49th among 320 guys who have defended at least 20 such plays, per Second Spectrum. He's even stouter on the block; opponents have managed 0.533 points per possession directly out of post-ups against Doncic -- second lowest among players who have guarded at least 20 such plays.

This would effectively make him on of the best iso and post defender players in the league. He's obviously not exactly that but to say he plays zero defense is idiotic. Every year since he has been with the Mavs, he regulary was in top3 all defensive impact metric statistics on this team. Even when Mavs had one year when they were 6th best DRTg team, he had 2nd best ratings on the team.

And if Mavs still have bad team defense, then we should look for problems elsewhere like THJ for example. If this dude would pay attention to how THJ tries to guard anyone he would be laughing like i was last game vs Wolves. And THJ plays a ton of minutes.

3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.

Year after year he's nr1 half court player in the league, he was also nr1 ranked in easiest and most shots created by a player, even ahead of Jokic. If Luka is selfish then Jokic should be sent to China.

Another example how "horrible" Luka is for this team from this year. And this was even before his recent explosion.

"Since being told to get on a treadmill Luka Doncic has played 45 minutes a night averaging 49 PTS, 13 AST, 10 REB on 54.2% FG, 37% 3P, 85% FT "

My argument has always been that pound for pound many of the smaller player in the NBA are more skilled players...i.e. better skill players. I stand by what I said.

Why does this even matter? Then, according to your logic, Muggsy Bogues is the best player of all time.

Luka is not known for his defense. Period. I have seen plays where he let guys go right by him and score. Even from a situational point of view - his situational defense is poor. If i said he doesn't play any defense, I stand corrected, i was being hyperbolic. But hiding him on defense and there's not much he does on defense that I can point to on the level of those other guys I named - and thats basically my point. How often does he guard the best team's post player or perimeter player most of the game? But I'll concede from time to time when he plays decent post defense.

Jokic, Curry, Durant, etc.. Are also not known for their defense. Why would Doncic have to be known for his defense? Most important thing is, which i already told you and you could go and look up for yourself, he's not a liability on defensive end.

I'll give an extreme example, but... How often did Jordan, Kobe, etc., actually guarded opponents best players? Why would it matter if Luka is not guarding opponents best players?
Do you understand teams often try to perserve their, best scorers or best players, by actively removing them from guarding opponents best players?? Do you know why? I'll give you a hint, it has something to do with saving energy and staying out of foul troubles, rest you can figure out by yourself.

I stand by the assertion that Luka's attitude sucks. From his constant whining to the refs to his complete ignoring of teammates who try to give him a hand pat on the way to the bench. I guess Luka thinks because he's frustration (which is all the time) gives him the right to pout and act like a 10 year old. It's highly disrespectful to his teammates who last time I checked are also professionals.

How do you know about high fives, etc. are you sitting near the bench every game? That's just ridiculous. Google yourself and look up what former and current teammates think of Luka. Judging by YOUR attitude i have a feeling you'll be dissapointed that they don't share your opinion.

And Embiid is literally be biggest crybaby and flooper in the league i bet you love him, because he plays "the right" way, right?

[joesha1698]

no need for takes.
Kyrie is a franchise destroyer. Last 7 years and 7 miserable seasons for those teams.

Since Kyrie came here look at:
-how many games he missed?
-how many games they won and lose with Luka?

Mavs-Luka team was a lock for playoffs. It became a team struggling to make playoffs.

I am putting up solid arguments, facts. Some people here acting as if their feelings are hurts. Sorry for those people.

Kyrie cancer is real. Every symptom is showing for more than 1 year. Ask for treatment not for copium.

Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka. So, let's talk about Luka.

Luka is a product of a NBA that relaxed defense to promote a more free flowing international style that is softer and that benefits the guard play. The causal fan rather watch a high scoring game than a low scoring one - per Adam Silver. Mark Cuban and his hench man (Jason Kidd) purposely allows Luka to run an offense where he has the ball 80% of the time -where it glorifies him while his teammates are reduced to standing around. Its the same style and reason James Harden never won anything with Mike Dantoni but had amazing numbers. It's the same reason that Porzingis couldn't play with Luka and neither could Jalen Brunson play with him long term. Porzingis was reduced to a corner while Luka pads his stats. Brunson knew that Luka will have the ball 80% of the time and ultimately it wouldn't compliment his game. Kyrie can play off the ball and is a natural scorer - so he was more willing to accept this role because he had rubbed some people in the league the wrong way and was on thin ice. However, make no mistake about it, Luka was getting his arse kissed by Rick Carlise (and it fractured the locker room) and Jason Kidd might treat the other teammates better but Luka still dominates the ball, plays no defense, is selfish towards his teammates (ive watched him completely ignore his teammates when they reach out to nap him up) and he whines to the refs all game long. No one has stepped in to tell him his behavior is unacceptable or to play some freaking defense. Jason Kidd calling him on the level of Kobe, Lebron, or Jordan is a joke. He isn't even better than Dirk yet when you consider there was more physicality when Dirk played and who he had to go through to make the finals and win rings. Also, Dirk was a better leader. Didn't whine like a softy all game.

In closing:

1.Luke's style of play - where he needs to dominate the ball - limits the kind of players he can play with. The more talented players will not accept standing around while he dribbles ala Harden, which they shouldn't. History has shown that two allstar players have done better since leaving him. Now, he has Kyrie Irving. That will be 3 players if this doesn't work out. Lebron had less talent at 22 and made the finals in a more physical league.

2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.

3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.

4.Luka whines to the refs almost every play. I've never seen a great player do this every play. It makes him look mentally soft. He recently kicked out a fan for telling him to get on the treadmill and admitted he overreacted - which confirms he is often mentally soft.

5.Luka is 24 years old. But his style of play (high usage/ball dominate) will be a big problem as his gets towards his 30s if not before. Why? He isnt nearly dedicated to his body like Lebron, Jordan, and Kobe...and let's face it - he doesn't have any natural advantages over those guys in that area. Which is why he has to be even more diligent in the area of taking care of his body.

My prediction is that Luka career will probably be cut short by injuries because of his style of play and the fact that I do not believe he has the discipline to take care of his body the way he needs to.

6. Last point, it was more Luka's fault the Mavs didnt make the playoffs last year. He's the best player (because of his size) on the team. He's the franchise player. Who's job is it to g-teed the team makes the playoffs? If that was Lebron James or Kobe Bryant - they would be blamed. So, why blame the guy who came here half a season? Its a cop out. Truthfully, if we were assigning blame it would the Mavs, Luka, and then Kyrie can take some blame. In 20 games for the Mavs in 2022 - Kyrie was 51% from the field, 39% from the 3, 95% from the FT, 5rpg, 6apg, 27ppg. He did his job. The Mavs failed and Luka failed more than Kyrie. But the fact that you blame Kyrie - proves how un-objective you are about Luka. Its the best player's job to lead. But because Luka is such a one sided player (once they traded his defense away, because he doesnt play any) his scoring did not matter. Kyrie's scoring did not matter. The Mavs could not stop anyone (just like now) and that's why they missed the playoffs. If Luka was a better leader and actually played defense - like a Lebron or Kobe - or even like Giannis they probably would have still made the playoffs or the play in.

You make some good Point and you miss on some of them..Kyrie and Luka are Both superstars...Kyrie has the Best handles in the history of the NBA and is a skillfull finisher and good shooter...if he'd be taller he would probably be even better since he's playing more like a SG than a PG...Luka doesn't have the athletic ability but his size and BB IQ are what allows him to dominate

The claim that Porzingis and Luka didn't work is just flat out wrong...it ended poorly but that was because of the injuries...we all seem to forget how well they played when KP was actually healthy...before the bubble injury KP was actually rolling to the basket and got a lot of easy baskets cause Luka would find him and he would use his size for an easy finish...he was mobile on D was blocking shots...after the injury he couldn't move well, never rolled to the rim,was taking contested three pointers and always avoided contact...heck, he couldn't even post up oppositions PG

Now about JB...JB and Luka are similar in their Play,though Luka has an advantage do to his size... they're both PG who have high usage...when they played it was always your turn,my turn...JB's numbers went up because his usage is way higher...if the Knicks get Donovan Mitchell it will again be your turn,my turn Play

Now Luka dominates the ball too much,I agree, but let's face it Mavs roster is a disaster...compare this(without Luka and Kai) to other teams in the league...where does it rank...yes,the gameplan is flawed but so is roster construction..Hardy and Green are not PG,neither is Timmy,they can't run na O...then you have DJJ as your Lone SF, Grant who is too small for a PF and too slow for a SF,Maxi who looks cooked,and two C's that nobody wanted as backup...you can't expect to win with small ball,not anymore

Now about Luka...he whines too much,agree.. we're all tired of the complaining...he carries the load too much,again agree...but that's because Kidd doesn't have a sistem(he said Luka was the sistem)...Luka knows how to Play in the sistem,he was raised in Europe, it's just that the Mavs made a mistake and made him the sistem and are running him to the ground...Again, roster is bad...with a starting SF and PF caliber player it's be a lot easier
About his attitude,yes I hate it sometimes...but it seems the frustration are starting to pile up...he needs to focus on the game and not get distracted with no calls and Just Play...let the FO do their job and improve the roster...the thing that he doesn't like his teammates is Just wrong...we know he loves Lively,Kai,Powell,Maxi ,Grant ,Timmy and that he loved JB, Dodo and Boban...he even Got in to the argument with Rick when he was mocking DSJ,Luka didn't like that...he stands up for his teammates...even KP said they respected each other,had no problem,they just were different personalities and didn't hang outside much,but on the court when healthy it worked(go watch some replays of their first season together)

Luka's not LeBron,bit LeBron also played in the Leastern Conference,the competition was poor...Look at the West now,it's stacked...you can't expect a team doo many holes in roster to be a playoff kock

There's lots of thing that need to change for the Mavs...roster needs upgrades, a starting SF, a starting PF and backup C,maybe even one more PG for the bench...Luka needs to focus on Play and not complaining...Kidd needs to start doing the Job he's payed to do,set up some plays(you know ,coach the team)

I donno, it was pretty well documented that Porzingis had issues with how he was used in the offense. There were articles written about how Porzingis didn't like his role and felt regulated to shooting 3's because of how Luka was being used in relation to him. I do not think they have issues as people but its well documented that Porzingis didnt like the way he was being used. He calls it a maturity and communication issue now but the bottom line is - there is a recurring theme with Luka ala Harden - his style of play takes precedent. And the bottom line is, Porzingis wasn't good enough or healthy enough (in the Mavs eyes) to force Luka to adjust his style more -- so they traded Porzingis. So regardless of what anyone says, they didnt work out.

Remember, the roster the Mavs have was built to accommodate Luka and his style of play. Even some of the draft decisions they make. So on one hand - I agree there roster could be better but on the other hand - how much of these roster decisions have been flawed because of the organization's commitment to making Luka happy and playing a certain style? Honest question. You have guys on here saying - we dont need Kyrie because Luka's style is impacted by having another guy who can handle the ball.


I never said Luka doesn't like his teammates. I said his attitude on the court is often disrespectful to his teammates. I have seen Luka (many times) completely ignore guys on the bench trying to give him nab/hand claps because he's constantly pouting. I have seen Luka pout at teammates for mistakes. I think thats a morale killer and bad leadership. Im only talking about those instances that I have seen while watching the game. The body language, ignoring them while he goes to the bench, and the whining are selfish imo when you do them excessively like he does.

[joesha1698]

Spoiler:

Call me a Luka homer or whatever but if this dude talked about Dirk in his playing days, i would have wrote the same.

Does anyone else have a feeling that joesha1698 just quietly popped up this year on Mavs and general board forums to **** on Doncic, or is it just me? His fan fiction twists of his stats and playstyle often don't look anything as it is in reality.

He wrote to someone...

Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka..

I honestly have no clue how to even begin explaining this. We know these are Kenyon Martin's words from Gil Arenas podcast but everyone also know by now Kenyon's racists remarks extend to Jokic aswell.

And then these few brilliant statements.

2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.

From Zach Lowe the other day.

Opponents have scored only 0.83 points per possession on isolations against Doncic -- 49th among 320 guys who have defended at least 20 such plays, per Second Spectrum. He's even stouter on the block; opponents have managed 0.533 points per possession directly out of post-ups against Doncic -- second lowest among players who have guarded at least 20 such plays.

This would effectively make him on of the best iso and post defender players in the league. He's obviously not exactly that but to say he plays zero defense is idiotic. Every year since he has been with the Mavs, he regulary was in top3 all defensive impact metric statistics on this team. Even when Mavs had one year when they were 6th best DRTg team, he had 2nd best ratings on the team.

And if Mavs still have bad team defense, then we should look for problems elsewhere like THJ for example. If this dude would pay attention to how THJ tries to guard anyone he would be laughing like i was last game vs Wolves. And THJ plays a ton of minutes.

3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.

Year after year he's nr1 half court player in the league, he was also nr1 ranked in easiest and most shots created by a player, even ahead of Jokic. If Luka is selfish then Jokic should be sent to China.

Another example how "horrible" Luka is for this team from this year. And this was even before his recent explosion.

"Since being told to get on a treadmill Luka Doncic has played 45 minutes a night averaging 49 PTS, 13 AST, 10 REB on 54.2% FG, 37% 3P, 85% FT "

My argument has always been that pound for pound many of the smaller player in the NBA are more skilled players...i.e. better skill players. I stand by what I said.

Why does this even matter? Then, according to your logic, Muggsy Bogues is the best player of all time.

Luka is not known for his defense. Period. I have seen plays where he let guys go right by him and score. Even from a situational point of view - his situational defense is poor. If i said he doesn't play any defense, I stand corrected, i was being hyperbolic. But hiding him on defense and there's not much he does on defense that I can point to on the level of those other guys I named - and thats basically my point. How often does he guard the best team's post player or perimeter player most of the game? But I'll concede from time to time when he plays decent post defense.

Jokic, Curry, Durant, etc.. Are also not known for their defense. Why would Doncic have to be known for his defense? Most important thing is, which i already told you and you could go and look up for yourself, he's not a liability on defensive end.

I'll give an extreme example, but... How often did Jordan, Kobe, etc., actually guarded opponents best players? Why would it matter if Luka is not guarding opponents best players?
Do you understand teams often try to perserve their, best scorers or best players, by actively removing them from guarding opponents best players?? Do you know why? I'll give you a hint, it has something to do with saving energy and staying out of foul troubles, rest you can figure out by yourself.

I stand by the assertion that Luka's attitude sucks. From his constant whining to the refs to his complete ignoring of teammates who try to give him a hand pat on the way to the bench. I guess Luka thinks because he's frustration (which is all the time) gives him the right to pout and act like a 10 year old. It's highly disrespectful to his teammates who last time I checked are also professionals.

How do you know about high fives, etc. are you sitting near the bench every game? That's just ridiculous. Google yourself and look up what former and current teammates think of Luka. Judging by YOUR attitude i have a feeling you'll be dissapointed that they don't share your opinion.

And Embiid is literally be biggest crybaby and flooper in the league i bet you love him, because he plays "the right" way, right?

LOL, i agree that Embiid is a big crybaby! He bothers me more than Luka because he's so big. In his defense, I think he has got better with that. I do not have a problem with Luka. I think his teammates generally like him. I do not like when he shows up his teammates or ignores them when their being supportive. I have provided examples of that. Shoot, even Porzingis is on the record calling him a baby. He literally acts like a newborn at times. It's very annoying to the refs.

As for defensively - I think he's avg to good in certain situations. I do not think he's a liability. I think if he gave more effort and played better situationally defense - he could demand more from his teammates on the defensive end.

[daoneandonly]

Porzingis is the last person who should throw stones at anyone's character. The guy was a malcontent baby in NY and Dallas. He's a common denominator problem, and would sit out for days with a stubbed toe.

We all know Luka needs to mature and improve his attitude and conditioning, but most of that other stuff isnt an issue

[Archx]

LOL, i agree that Embiid is a big crybaby! He bothers me more than Luka because he's so big. In his defense, I think he has got better with that. I do not have a problem with Luka. I think his teammates generally like him. I do not like when he shows up his teammates or ignores them when their being supportive. I have provided examples of that. Shoot, even Porzingis is on the record calling him a baby. He literally acts like a newborn at times. It's very annoying to the refs.

I haven't seen any argument backed with evidence of what you ever said on this site. Maybe i missed it so feel free to do it again.

KP is on the record saying him and Luka had zero issues off the court, it's just that Rick didn't put KP in favorable position to succeed and he was angry with Rick so he wanted to demand a trade before Kidd went to Latvia when Rick resigned. Those are facts, told by KP himself.

And i still don't have a clue where do you see that Luka ignores them lol.. That's something no one ever said before.

[BliscoSantos]

Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka. So, let's talk about Luka.

Luka is a product of a NBA that relaxed defense to promote a more free flowing international style that is softer and that benefits the guard play. The causal fan rather watch a high scoring game than a low scoring one - per Adam Silver. Mark Cuban and his hench man (Jason Kidd) purposely allows Luka to run an offense where he has the ball 80% of the time -where it glorifies him while his teammates are reduced to standing around. Its the same style and reason James Harden never won anything with Mike Dantoni but had amazing numbers. It's the same reason that Porzingis couldn't play with Luka and neither could Jalen Brunson play with him long term. Porzingis was reduced to a corner while Luka pads his stats. Brunson knew that Luka will have the ball 80% of the time and ultimately it wouldn't compliment his game. Kyrie can play off the ball and is a natural scorer - so he was more willing to accept this role because he had rubbed some people in the league the wrong way and was on thin ice. However, make no mistake about it, Luka was getting his arse kissed by Rick Carlise (and it fractured the locker room) and Jason Kidd might treat the other teammates better but Luka still dominates the ball, plays no defense, is selfish towards his teammates (ive watched him completely ignore his teammates when they reach out to nap him up) and he whines to the refs all game long. No one has stepped in to tell him his behavior is unacceptable or to play some freaking defense. Jason Kidd calling him on the level of Kobe, Lebron, or Jordan is a joke. He isn't even better than Dirk yet when you consider there was more physicality when Dirk played and who he had to go through to make the finals and win rings. Also, Dirk was a better leader. Didn't whine like a softy all game.

In closing:

1.Luke's style of play - where he needs to dominate the ball - limits the kind of players he can play with. The more talented players will not accept standing around while he dribbles ala Harden, which they shouldn't. History has shown that two allstar players have done better since leaving him. Now, he has Kyrie Irving. That will be 3 players if this doesn't work out. Lebron had less talent at 22 and made the finals in a more physical league.

2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.

3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.

4.Luka whines to the refs almost every play. I've never seen a great player do this every play. It makes him look mentally soft. He recently kicked out a fan for telling him to get on the treadmill and admitted he overreacted - which confirms he is often mentally soft.

5.Luka is 24 years old. But his style of play (high usage/ball dominate) will be a big problem as his gets towards his 30s if not before. Why? He isnt nearly dedicated to his body like Lebron, Jordan, and Kobe...and let's face it - he doesn't have any natural advantages over those guys in that area. Which is why he has to be even more diligent in the area of taking care of his body.

My prediction is that Luka career will probably be cut short by injuries because of his style of play and the fact that I do not believe he has the discipline to take care of his body the way he needs to.

6. Last point, it was more Luka's fault the Mavs didnt make the playoffs last year. He's the best player (because of his size) on the team. He's the franchise player. Who's job is it to g-teed the team makes the playoffs? If that was Lebron James or Kobe Bryant - they would be blamed. So, why blame the guy who came here half a season? Its a cop out. Truthfully, if we were assigning blame it would the Mavs, Luka, and then Kyrie can take some blame. In 20 games for the Mavs in 2022 - Kyrie was 51% from the field, 39% from the 3, 95% from the FT, 5rpg, 6apg, 27ppg. He did his job. The Mavs failed and Luka failed more than Kyrie. But the fact that you blame Kyrie - proves how un-objective you are about Luka. Its the best player's job to lead. But because Luka is such a one sided player (once they traded his defense away, because he doesnt play any) his scoring did not matter. Kyrie's scoring did not matter. The Mavs could not stop anyone (just like now) and that's why they missed the playoffs. If Luka was a better leader and actually played defense - like a Lebron or Kobe - or even like Giannis they probably would have still made the playoffs or the play in.

You make some good Point and you miss on some of them..Kyrie and Luka are Both superstars...Kyrie has the Best handles in the history of the NBA and is a skillfull finisher and good shooter...if he'd be taller he would probably be even better since he's playing more like a SG than a PG...Luka doesn't have the athletic ability but his size and BB IQ are what allows him to dominate

The claim that Porzingis and Luka didn't work is just flat out wrong...it ended poorly but that was because of the injuries...we all seem to forget how well they played when KP was actually healthy...before the bubble injury KP was actually rolling to the basket and got a lot of easy baskets cause Luka would find him and he would use his size for an easy finish...he was mobile on D was blocking shots...after the injury he couldn't move well, never rolled to the rim,was taking contested three pointers and always avoided contact...heck, he couldn't even post up oppositions PG

Now about JB...JB and Luka are similar in their Play,though Luka has an advantage do to his size... they're both PG who have high usage...when they played it was always your turn,my turn...JB's numbers went up because his usage is way higher...if the Knicks get Donovan Mitchell it will again be your turn,my turn Play

Now Luka dominates the ball too much,I agree, but let's face it Mavs roster is a disaster...compare this(without Luka and Kai) to other teams in the league...where does it rank...yes,the gameplan is flawed but so is roster construction..Hardy and Green are not PG,neither is Timmy,they can't run na O...then you have DJJ as your Lone SF, Grant who is too small for a PF and too slow for a SF,Maxi who looks cooked,and two C's that nobody wanted as backup...you can't expect to win with small ball,not anymore

Now about Luka...he whines too much,agree.. we're all tired of the complaining...he carries the load too much,again agree...but that's because Kidd doesn't have a sistem(he said Luka was the sistem)...Luka knows how to Play in the sistem,he was raised in Europe, it's just that the Mavs made a mistake and made him the sistem and are running him to the ground...Again, roster is bad...with a starting SF and PF caliber player it's be a lot easier
About his attitude,yes I hate it sometimes...but it seems the frustration are starting to pile up...he needs to focus on the game and not get distracted with no calls and Just Play...let the FO do their job and improve the roster...the thing that he doesn't like his teammates is Just wrong...we know he loves Lively,Kai,Powell,Maxi ,Grant ,Timmy and that he loved JB, Dodo and Boban...he even Got in to the argument with Rick when he was mocking DSJ,Luka didn't like that...he stands up for his teammates...even KP said they respected each other,had no problem,they just were different personalities and didn't hang outside much,but on the court when healthy it worked(go watch some replays of their first season together)

Luka's not LeBron,bit LeBron also played in the Leastern Conference,the competition was poor...Look at the West now,it's stacked...you can't expect a team doo many holes in roster to be a playoff kock

There's lots of thing that need to change for the Mavs...roster needs upgrades, a starting SF, a starting PF and backup C,maybe even one more PG for the bench...Luka needs to focus on Play and not complaining...Kidd needs to start doing the Job he's payed to do,set up some plays(you know ,coach the team)

I donno, it was pretty well documented that Porzingis had issues with how he was used in the offense. There were articles written about how Porzingis didn't like his role and felt regulated to shooting 3's because of how Luka was being used in relation to him. I do not think they have issues as people but its well documented that Porzingis didnt like the way he was being used. He calls it a maturity and communication issue now but the bottom line is - there is a recurring theme with Luka ala Harden - his style of play takes precedent. And the bottom line is, Porzingis wasn't good enough or healthy enough (in the Mavs eyes) to force Luka to adjust his style more -- so they traded Porzingis. So regardless of what anyone says, they didnt work out.

Remember, the roster the Mavs have was built to accommodate Luka and his style of play. Even some of the draft decisions they make. So on one hand - I agree there roster could be better but on the other hand - how much of these roster decisions have been flawed because of the organization's commitment to making Luka happy and playing a certain style? Honest question. You have guys on here saying - we dont need Kyrie because Luka's style is impacted by having another guy who can handle the ball.


I never said Luka doesn't like his teammates. I said his attitude on the court is often disrespectful to his teammates. I have seen Luka (many times) completely ignore guys on the bench trying to give him nab/hand claps because he's constantly pouting. I have seen Luka pout at teammates for mistakes. I think thats a morale killer and bad leadership. Im only talking about those instances that I have seen while watching the game. The body language, ignoring them while he goes to the bench, and the whining are selfish imo when you do them excessively like he does.

Like I said before,untill KP was healthy everything was OK...they played well together ,they won,they were really a good combo....after the bubble injury everytime he came back he suffered a new setback,another injury and he was never the same player...the problem is that he thought he was still the same(that's why he talks about maturity)...if he could go back he'd probably change a few things as would the Mavs...I didn't like that trade,they sold him low,but he just mentaly checked out...when he played for the Wizzards everybody was talking how great he's playing,yet his numbers were basicaly the same as with Mavs after all the injuries(not the first season,bubble, when he played the Best in his Carter...he never replicated that play)...so the numbers were the same, the team was losing and yet somehow he was better??how does that make sense...and now he's the fourth or fifth option on O...if he hadn't change his attitude he would be unhappy in Boston now...but now he understanda he's not the same player,injuries took it's toll, he's not a franchise cornerstone, he's a good supporting Player for a loaded team...he turned things around,good for him,cause a lot of People were wondering if he'd even get another contract in the NBA, that's how bad he looked trying to do too much

About Luka pouting...yes he does and he needs to stop...but he also celebrates good plays from his teammates,encourages them...so are we Just gonna ignore that...I get it,the Mavs are terrible now so we all see the negative things easier than positive...we have to remember as much as we are frustrated by this team(their Play), don't you think it's the same with the players who want to win,who hate losing...it doesn't help either that the Mavs lack any assets to improve and that other teams are set up way better for succes than the Mavs...Kidd is begging the FO for trades on a podcast...Nico is working the phone , it's Just that the Mavs don't have anything other teams desires(the value of their players is low)

We're Just gonna have to be patient,let this season Play out and then in the offseason they need to bring in some talent...enough with this one way players

[joesha1698]

We're Just gonna have to be patient,let this season Play out and then in the offseason they need to bring in some talent...enough with this one way players

[/quote]

Fair enough.

[joesha1698]

I honestly have no clue how to even begin explaining this. We know these are Kenyon Martin's words from Gil Arenas podcast but everyone also know by now Kenyon's racists remarks extend to Jokic aswell.

What remarks? What did he say? if you do not want to rehash them, dont. I'm curious what he said.

Why does this even matter? Then, according to your logic, Muggsy Bogues is the best player of all time.

There's a reason boxing has weight/size divisions. That's not to say a taller / bigger player cannot have more skill. But taller/bigger players often have less skill and are still able to produce at a higher rate because of their size in the NBA. So, when people are comparing different players - if we're really being fair we cannot ignore the elephant in the room.

[41Dirk41]

I don't want to defend Luka (he doesn't need me for sure) but in PO he plays good in both half courts...

I can only say if a contender needs great defense from his superstar every single games for win games in RS so there is a problem.

[ozwizard8]

Call me a Luka homer or whatever but if this dude talked about Dirk in his playing days, i would have wrote the same.

Does anyone else have a feeling that joesha1698 just quietly popped up this year on Mavs and general board forums to **** on Doncic, or is it just me? His fan fiction twists of his stats and playstyle often don't look anything as it is in reality.

He wrote to someone...

Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka..

I honestly have no clue how to even begin explaining this. We know these are Kenyon Martin's words from Gil Arenas podcast but everyone also know by now Kenyon's racists remarks extend to Jokic aswell.

And then these few brilliant statements.

2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.

From Zach Lowe the other day.

Opponents have scored only 0.83 points per possession on isolations against Doncic -- 49th among 320 guys who have defended at least 20 such plays, per Second Spectrum. He's even stouter on the block; opponents have managed 0.533 points per possession directly out of post-ups against Doncic -- second lowest among players who have guarded at least 20 such plays.

This would effectively make him on of the best iso and post defender players in the league. He's obviously not exactly that but to say he plays zero defense is idiotic. Every year since he has been with the Mavs, he regulary was in top3 all defensive impact metric statistics on this team. Even when Mavs had one year when they were 6th best DRTg team, he had 2nd best ratings on the team.

And if Mavs still have bad team defense, then we should look for problems elsewhere like THJ for example. If this dude would pay attention to how THJ tries to guard anyone he would be laughing like i was last game vs Wolves. And THJ plays a ton of minutes.

3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.

Year after year he's nr1 half court player in the league, he was also nr1 ranked in easiest and most shots created by a player, even ahead of Jokic. If Luka is selfish then Jokic should be sent to China.

Another example how "horrible" Luka is for this team from this year. And this was even before his recent explosion.

"Since being told to get on a treadmill Luka Doncic has played 45 minutes a night averaging 49 PTS, 13 AST, 10 REB on 54.2% FG, 37% 3P, 85% FT "

Thank you for exposing kyr*e fans.
They destroyed 3 franchises in last 7 years. Kyrie is a cancer.
Kyrie used to be a great offensive player but he no longer can score efficiently against tough defenses, clutch moments. More importantly he is out due to injury half of the games. MAX contract to Kyrie only brings MISERY.

Anyway, do not get fooled by names, or some fancy plays. Look at what happened to this team and fanbase after kyries arrival. Mavs-Luka teams used to be a lock to the playoffs. Since Kyrie came this team started to struggle to make playoffs even with Lively who plays like T.Chandler.

[ozwizard8]

Spoiler:

Call me a Luka homer or whatever but if this dude talked about Dirk in his playing days, i would have wrote the same.

Does anyone else have a feeling that joesha1698 just quietly popped up this year on Mavs and general board forums to **** on Doncic, or is it just me? His fan fiction twists of his stats and playstyle often don't look anything as it is in reality.

He wrote to someone...

Kyrie is a better basketball player than Luka. The only thing Luka does better than Kyrie is probably pass and be 6'8. I feel like a lot of the stuff you say about Kyrie is just to defend Luka..

I honestly have no clue how to even begin explaining this. We know these are Kenyon Martin's words from Gil Arenas podcast but everyone also know by now Kenyon's racists remarks extend to Jokic aswell.

And then these few brilliant statements.

2.Luka doesn't play any defense..so he shouldn't be compared to guys like Giannis, Jokic, He's not on there level. There's a reason they have won MVPs. They are more complete players and their style of play leads to more winning. They play defense and are better leaders and their style of play allows their teammates to step up more.

From Zach Lowe the other day.

Opponents have scored only 0.83 points per possession on isolations against Doncic -- 49th among 320 guys who have defended at least 20 such plays, per Second Spectrum. He's even stouter on the block; opponents have managed 0.533 points per possession directly out of post-ups against Doncic -- second lowest among players who have guarded at least 20 such plays.

This would effectively make him on of the best iso and post defender players in the league. He's obviously not exactly that but to say he plays zero defense is idiotic. Every year since he has been with the Mavs, he regulary was in top3 all defensive impact metric statistics on this team. Even when Mavs had one year when they were 6th best DRTg team, he had 2nd best ratings on the team.

And if Mavs still have bad team defense, then we should look for problems elsewhere like THJ for example. If this dude would pay attention to how THJ tries to guard anyone he would be laughing like i was last game vs Wolves. And THJ plays a ton of minutes.

3.Luka's attitude sucks. He's selfish the way he treats his teammates at times. He ignores them often when they try to encourage him.

Year after year he's nr1 half court player in the league, he was also nr1 ranked in easiest and most shots created by a player, even ahead of Jokic. If Luka is selfish then Jokic should be sent to China.

Another example how "horrible" Luka is for this team from this year. And this was even before his recent explosion.

"Since being told to get on a treadmill Luka Doncic has played 45 minutes a night averaging 49 PTS, 13 AST, 10 REB on 54.2% FG, 37% 3P, 85% FT "

My argument has always been that pound for pound many of the smaller player in the NBA are more skilled players...i.e. better skill players. I stand by what I said.

Why does this even matter? Then, according to your logic, Muggsy Bogues is the best player of all time.

Luka is not known for his defense. Period. I have seen plays where he let guys go right by him and score. Even from a situational point of view - his situational defense is poor. If i said he doesn't play any defense, I stand corrected, i was being hyperbolic. But hiding him on defense and there's not much he does on defense that I can point to on the level of those other guys I named - and thats basically my point. How often does he guard the best team's post player or perimeter player most of the game? But I'll concede from time to time when he plays decent post defense.

Jokic, Curry, Durant, etc.. Are also not known for their defense. Why would Doncic have to be known for his defense? Most important thing is, which i already told you and you could go and look up for yourself, he's not a liability on defensive end.

I'll give an extreme example, but... How often did Jordan, Kobe, etc., actually guarded opponents best players? Why would it matter if Luka is not guarding opponents best players?
Do you understand teams often try to perserve their, best scorers or best players, by actively removing them from guarding opponents best players?? Do you know why? I'll give you a hint, it has something to do with saving energy and staying out of foul troubles, rest you can figure out by yourself.

I stand by the assertion that Luka's attitude sucks. From his constant whining to the refs to his complete ignoring of teammates who try to give him a hand pat on the way to the bench. I guess Luka thinks because he's frustration (which is all the time) gives him the right to pout and act like a 10 year old. It's highly disrespectful to his teammates who last time I checked are also professionals.

How do you know about high fives, etc. are you sitting near the bench every game? That's just ridiculous. Google yourself and look up what former and current teammates think of Luka. Judging by YOUR attitude i have a feeling you'll be dissapointed that they don't share your opinion.

And Embiid is literally be biggest crybaby and flooper in the league i bet you love him, because he plays "the right" way, right?

Luka is a great teammate and MAvs had great chemistry with Brunson, DFS, Dinwiddie. Since Kyrie came in, we only had some **** PR tweets about so-called friendship. There have been no real chemistry build other than Lively-Green etc, visibly adoring Luka.

This is real friendship looks like.

Read on Twitter

Mavs had it with same year draft class Luka-Brunson too. Good old times.

Read on Twitter

[joesha1698]

[/quote]

Thank you for exposing kyr*e fans.
They destroyed 3 franchises in last 7 years. Kyrie is a cancer.
Kyrie used to be a great offensive player but he no longer can score efficiently against tough defenses, clutch moments. More importantly he is out due to injury half of the games. MAX contract to Kyrie only brings MISERY.

Anyway, do not get fooled by names, or some fancy plays. Look at what happened to this team and fanbase after kyries arrival. Mavs-Luka teams used to be a lock to the playoffs. Since Kyrie came this team started to struggle to make playoffs even with Lively who plays like T.Chandler.

[/quote]


How did Kyrie destroy Boston and Cleveland simply by leaving? The stuff you say is beyond stupid. He was a free agent in Boston and asked for a trade from Cleveland once he figured Lebron was leaving the next season, imo. Now, Brooklyn - he didn't destroy that franchise either. They were injuries away from going to the finals if they beat the Bucks. And...I'll give you the vaccine issue took on a life of its own. The Brooklyn Nets traded James Harden for Ben Simmons and thats what the destroyed the prospects of that team and all the fake politics by the NBA. They put a target on Kyrie's back because of the covid/vaccine and they used some fake outrage to get back at him. With that being said, if you want to say Kyrie hurt the Brooklyn with some of his decisions fine, you can argue that he brought some of that on himself, but the rest of the crap with you said is BS. He has every right to ask for a trade from Cleveland and he had every right to leave Boston once his contract is up. Neither one of those things is destroying a franchise.

Kyrie numbers and shooting percentages are still very good. He still shoots career wise at a higher clip than Luka from 2, 3, and free throws. These are facts. Kyrie played great in finals, Luka hasnt been to one yet. Kyrie hit one of the biggest shots in NBA history to beat a team that had the best record in nba history, what big shot has luka hit? What championship has he won?

So, just so the rest of the board knows, I'm not a Luka hater. I'm just applying the same logic he applies to Kyrie to Luka ...mainly for OGWizard. This guy says all this stuff because he worships Luka like a God. He makes attacking one player on the team - and its disrespectful to the rest of the posters who come here to actually to talk Mav basketball.

His obsession with Kyrie has nothing to do with him as a Mav or what he's currently doing. Kyrie Irving is not posting on this board. Therefore, consider the fact that other people here want to talk about Mavs and not just his obsession. You repeat the same crap over and over. It doesn't make it true and even if it was true - what the heck can we do about it? We want to talk about the current team we have and what its going to take for them to win. Until the Mavs trade Kyrie (which isnt going to happen) you really should stick to current topics.

[Bob8]

Thank you for exposing kyr*e fans.
They destroyed 3 franchises in last 7 years. Kyrie is a cancer.
Kyrie used to be a great offensive player but he no longer can score efficiently against tough defenses, clutch moments. More importantly he is out due to injury half of the games. MAX contract to Kyrie only brings MISERY.

Anyway, do not get fooled by names, or some fancy plays. Look at what happened to this team and fanbase after kyries arrival. Mavs-Luka teams used to be a lock to the playoffs. Since Kyrie came this team started to struggle to make playoffs even with Lively who plays like T.Chandler.

[/quote]


How did Kyrie destroy Boston and Cleveland simply by leaving? The stuff you say is beyond stupid. He was a free agent in Boston and asked for a trade from Cleveland once he figured Lebron was leaving the next season, imo. Now, Brooklyn - he didn't destroy that franchise either. They were injuries away from going to the finals if they beat the Bucks. And...I'll give you the vaccine issue took on a life of its own. The Brooklyn Nets traded James Harden for Ben Simmons and thats what the destroyed the prospects of that team and all the fake politics by the NBA. They put a target on Kyrie's back because of the covid/vaccine and they used some fake outrage to get back at him. With that being said, if you want to say Kyrie hurt the Brooklyn with some of his decisions fine, you can argue that he brought some of that on himself, but the rest of the crap with you said is BS. He has every right to ask for a trade from Cleveland and he had every right to leave Boston once his contract is up. Neither one of those things is destroying a franchise.

Kyrie numbers and shooting percentages are still very good. He still shoots career wise at a higher clip than Luka from 2, 3, and free throws. These are facts. Kyrie played great in finals, Luka hasnt been to one yet. Kyrie hit one of the biggest shots in NBA history to beat a team that had the best record in nba history, what big shot has luka hit? What championship has he won?

So, just so the rest of the board knows, I'm not a Luka hater. I'm just applying the same logic he applies to Kyrie to Luka ...mainly for OGWizard. This guy says all this stuff because he worships Luka like a God. He makes attacking one player on the team - and its disrespectful to the rest of the posters who come here to actually to talk Mav basketball.

His obsession with Kyrie has nothing to do with him as a Mav or what he's currently doing. Kyrie Irving is not posting on this board. Therefore, consider the fact that other people here want to talk about Mavs and not just his obsession. You repeat the same crap over and over. It doesn't make it true and even if it was true - what the heck can we do about it? We want to talk about the current team we have and what its going to take for them to win. Until the Mavs trade Kyrie (which isnt going to happen) you really should stick to current topics.[/quote]

Tell me, how many championships have MJ and LeBron won with 24 years?

Who cares what Kyrie did 7 years ago, we're only interesting in what he does now and that's playing 10 games in last 2 months.

[joesha1698]

Im done with Kyrie and Luka talk. Hopefully a trade happens and we can get off this negativity. Go Mavs!

[41Dirk41]

Basketball is a 5 man game.

Wow the great chemistry who was sweep by Warriors.

Roy was 6'7, definitely not a small guard.

That's all folks.

[Maverick41]

DAL Receives: Kuzma + Gafford
NY Receives: THJ
WAS Receives: Fournier + Holmes + Omax + DAL 27 FRP + WAS 24 FRP (from NY - it's heavily protected)

DAL gets 2 guys that balance the team better. Kuzma takes the 3rd scorer role with a quick trigger from THJ and is much bigger. Gafford becomes a very solid backup to Lively.

NY trades expiring Fournier for a familiar face in THJ who can take over the shooting and scoring role off the bench left by Quickley. The pick they give up protected within the top 12 in 2024, top 10 in 2025, top 8 in 2026, and if not will convey as a 2026 and a 2027 second-round pick. Good chance it does not convey in any of those years. Gives NY a chance to compete in the playoffs this year and have an expiring large contract in THJ next year for a star trade.

WAS gets their FRP back so they have control over their own destiny, they get a valuable 27 DAL FRP + a recent FRP in Omax. This satisfies thier ownership wish to get more FRPs.

[tleikheen]

There continues to be smoke regarding Kyle Kuzma to the Mavs. [According to NBA insider Marc Stein, the Mavs have "registered consistent trade interest" in Kyle Kuzma.} also [Mavs Register 'Consistent' Trade Interest in Wizards' Kyle Kuzma
Story by Grant Afseth • 49m]

Grant Williams and Josh Green are mentioned plus a 1st round pick to satisfy the Wizards want of young players with 1st round picks.

Ideally a trade happens as Luka ,Kyrie,Dante .Lively and DJJ all come back healthy and ready to play.

A lineup of 7'1",6'9,6'7,6'5",6'2" will actually look like a traditional lineup height wise .

[tleikheen]

DAL Receives: Kuzma + Gafford
NY Receives: THJ
WAS Receives: Fournier + Holmes + Omax + DAL 27 FRP + WAS 24 FRP (from NY - it's heavily protected)

DAL gets 2 guys that balance the team better. Kuzma takes the 3rd scorer role with a quick trigger from THJ and is much bigger. Gafford becomes a very solid backup to Lively.

NY trades expiring Fournier for a familiar face in THJ who can take over the shooting and scoring role off the bench left by Quickley. The pick they give up protected within the top 12 in 2024, top 10 in 2025, top 8 in 2026, and if not will convey as a 2026 and a 2027 second-round pick. Good chance it does not convey in any of those years. Gives NY a chance to compete in the playoffs this year and have an expiring large contract in THJ next year for a star trade.

WAS gets their FRP back so they have control over their own destiny, they get a valuable 27 DAL FRP + a recent FRP in Omax. This satisfies thier ownership wish to get more FRPs.

To be able to get both Kuzma and Gafford would be more than the Mavs can hope for !

[Maverick41]

Read on Twitter

At this point, there's too much smoke that there's got to be some truth to these Kuzma Mavs rumors. I just hope we don't give up too much.

[daoneandonly]

Read on Twitter

At this point, there's too much smoke that there's got to be some truth to these Kuzma Mavs rumors. I just hope we don't give up too much.

Would be one of the worst things this team could do. The guy is a loser.

Best case scenario is fire Kidd, then maybe this noise can die down