Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24 – (Trade Deadline Feb. 8, 3PM, ET)

[165bows]

Nic Claxton is allegedly “more” available.

PP, Kornet and Svi for Claxton and take Dennis Smith and Lonnie Walker into the TPE. How many picks do we need to add?

Probably 3 1st rounders and that might not even be enough..especially considering our 1st rounders are late 1st rounders..and considering the Nets apparently don't want to trade good players for picks..

Read on Twitter

No one's trading three fist rounders for Nic Claxton.

[Celts17Pride]

Three first rounders will be a protected 1st and a 2nd round pick by Wednesday.

[Hal14]

Nic Claxton is allegedly “more” available.

PP, Kornet and Svi for Claxton and take Dennis Smith and Lonnie Walker into the TPE. How many picks do we need to add?

Probably 3 1st rounders and that might not even be enough..especially considering our 1st rounders are late 1st rounders..and considering the Nets apparently don't want to trade good players for picks..

Read on Twitter

No one's trading three fist rounders for Nic Claxton.

I didn't say they would. But if the Nets won't even accept 2 1st rounders for DFS (and Claxton is better and way younger than DFS) then they might not accept 3 1st rounders for Claxton AND Dennis Smith AND Lonnie Walker.

Plus additional draft pick compensation may need to be added to get the Nets to take in our end of bench guys who bring no value to them.

[brackdan70]

Probably 3 1st rounders and that might not even be enough..especially considering our 1st rounders are late 1st rounders..and considering the Nets apparently don't want to trade good players for picks..

Read on Twitter

No one's trading three fist rounders for Nic Claxton.

I didn't say they would. But if the Nets won't even accept 2 1st rounders for DFS (and Claxton is better and way younger than DFS) then they might not accept 3 1st rounders for Claxton AND Dennis Smith AND Lonnie Walker.

Plus additional draft pick compensation may need to be added to get the Nets to take in our end of bench guys who bring no value to them.

Well the would be getting a couple young studs in PP and Kornet back…

[BK_2020]

Probably 3 1st rounders and that might not even be enough..especially considering our 1st rounders are late 1st rounders..and considering the Nets apparently don't want to trade good players for picks..

Read on Twitter

No one's trading three fist rounders for Nic Claxton.

I didn't say they would. But if the Nets won't even accept 2 1st rounders for DFS (and Claxton is better and way younger than DFS) then they might not accept 3 1st rounders for Claxton AND Dennis Smith AND Lonnie Walker.

Plus additional draft pick compensation may need to be added to get the Nets to take in our end of bench guys who bring no value to them.

The Nets will definitely accept two FRPs for DFS, it's just no one's offering that to them.

[165bows]

No one's trading three fist rounders for Nic Claxton.

I didn't say they would. But if the Nets won't even accept 2 1st rounders for DFS (and Claxton is better and way younger than DFS) then they might not accept 3 1st rounders for Claxton AND Dennis Smith AND Lonnie Walker.

Plus additional draft pick compensation may need to be added to get the Nets to take in our end of bench guys who bring no value to them.

The Nets will definitely accept two FRPs for DFS, it's just no one's offering that to them.

One can just assume two first rounders means one is fake and the deal includes a bunch of junk salary in return. People really don’t know how to interpret which parts of these reports were true and what is left unsaid.

[Hal14]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. IMO, you keep the top 6 guys intact. In the playoffs your top 8 guys are getting like 90% of the non-garbage time mins.

Our 7th/8th guys are Hauser and Pritchard.

Logic tells us that the deal that would move the needle the most right now is upgrading 1 of those spots.

Realistically, I doubt we upgrade both spots - I'm fine with going into the playoffs with *one* of them in our top 8.

But ideally, you upgrade one of them.

-Pritchard and Hauser can both be abused defensively at times
-Pritchard and Hauser are both subpar in terms of athleticism
-Both Pritchard and Hauser are limited in terms of offense other than 3 pt shooting
-Pritchard is undersized
-Hauser is slow
-Neither is very strong physically - especially Hauser and he has to match up with guys who are bigger than Pritchard does
-Both are lacking in experience and production in the playoffs

Let's look at some data:

free image hosting

This tells me:
-They're comparable in 3 FG%, Plus Minus and Net Rating. BUT if we look at games the Celtics have lost, Pritchard has been much better in these categories. That tells me, if we had someone better playing those mins that Hauser has been playing, we could have won some of these games instead of lost them
-They're comparable in rebounding BUT Hauser *should* be getting way more rebounds than Pritchard since he's a 3/4 and Pritchard is a combo-guard. Plus, Pritchard's contested rebound % is much higher than Hauser (despite Pritchard being a combo-guard and Hauser being a 3/4). So Pritchard is a good rebounder for his position - Hauser is not
-Pritchard scores 2x the FGs inside the arc than Hauser is. And Pritchard drives over 4x more times per game than Hauser. Many C's fans say we live and die by the 3, need to not settle for 3's so much, need to drive to the basket more. Well Pritchard is your guy then..
-Overall, Pritchard is scoring more points when he's out there

*Some of these stats I filtered to show more recent games, rather than full season numbers to get an idea of how they are trending...

In conclusion, I think we need to add another piece. Honestly, I'll be fine regardless of whether that piece is a guard, a wing or a big. My preference though would be a wing (followed by a guard) because like I said, adding that type of piece would move the needle more since they would be in the 8 man playoff rotation - a 3rd big probably won't be.

If we get a wing, I'm hoping it's one with some size, some scoring ability..someone who can drive to the basket as well as hit the open 3..someone who isn't a defensive liability and someone who can rebound decently well for their position. That might be tricky to find a guy who brings all of that to the table, given our salary cap situation and limited assets to give up in a trade. But that's why Brad makes the big bucks

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics have Top 9 players

Holiday, White, Pritchard
Tatum, Brown, Hauser
Porzingis, Horford, Kornet

Don't see any of those players leaving.

I could see Brad Stevens maybe adding 1-2 players to that group via the $6.2 TPE and a possible buyout player. Celtics fans really shouldn't be expecting anything more in my opinion. Anything more would be a big surprise. Celtics could very well do nothing.

Celtics are 37-12, best record in the NBA.

[BK_2020]

This tells me:
-They're comparable in 3 FG%, Plus Minus and Net Rating. BUT if we look at games the Celtics have lost, Pritchard has been much better in these categories. That tells me, if we had someone better playing those mins that Hauser has been playing, we could have won some of these games instead of lost them

They are not really comparable in 3pt shooting. Hauser shoots 44% on wide open threes. Pritchard shoots 39%. To put this into perspective, this gap is the same as the one between Steph Curry and Kyle Kuzma this season.
Hauser shoots 47% on corner threes. Pritchard shoots 40.7%. Hauser is 40.3% on ATB threes, Pritchard is 37.2%. Pritchard's attempts are also usually stand-still open threes. A good portion of Hauser's 3 pointers are off flare cuts or off screen.
They have similar 3P% but that's due to Hauser having a much harder shot diet that opens things up for other players, including for Pritchard.
Pritchard is +2.9 and Hauser is +2.2 for on/off. There's little difference and it's kinda pointless anyway to compare halfseason on/off for bench players.

[keevsnick1]

No one's trading three fist rounders for Nic Claxton.

I didn't say they would. But if the Nets won't even accept 2 1st rounders for DFS (and Claxton is better and way younger than DFS) then they might not accept 3 1st rounders for Claxton AND Dennis Smith AND Lonnie Walker.

Plus additional draft pick compensation may need to be added to get the Nets to take in our end of bench guys who bring no value to them.

The Nets will definitely accept two FRPs for DFS, it's just no one's offering that to them.

Two first round picks can mean a lot of different things. if some middle of the pack team was offering a top-14 protected first that converts to a 2nd rounder.... well that's not really a real first rounder. This gets lost in reporting all the time. Or maybe it required the Nets to take back a ton of bad salary.

If some team offered even one real first rounder, ie guaranteed to actually convey, and expirings then the Nets should take it. I have a hard time believing they turned down two real firsts.

[keevsnick1]

Celtics probably adding the best wing player or big they can get into the TPE for 2-3 2nds. And that guy at bets cracks the back end of the rotation. They are just so capped out its hard to expect anything better.

[Hal14]

They have similar 3P% but that's due to Hauser having a much harder shot diet

Eh, idk about that. As we all know, off the dribble shots are harder to make than catch and shoot looks....

Pritchard: 45.2% of his 3's are catch and shoot. 21.1% of his 3's are pull-ups.
Hauser: 77.9% of his 3's are catch and shoot. 7.5% of his 3's are pull-ups.

That would indicate Pritchard has the harder shot diet.

Pritchard is +2.9 and Hauser is +2.2 for on/off. There's little difference and it's kinda pointless anyway to compare halfseason on/off for bench players.

Yes, I already said in my post that they're comparable in on/off, net rating and plus minus. BUT if we look at the games we have lost (in particular the games we've lost over the past 2.5 months or so) Pritchard has a significant edge in these categories (as well as a much higher TS%). Again, this tells me that if we had someone better getting Hauser's mins, perhaps we would have won some of those games instead of losing them.

You can say the on/off numbers for a half season of bench players meaningless but that's why I included a bunch of other things in my post. Like drives per game, 2 pt field goals made, rebounding, etc. It all adds up, they're all pieces to the puzzle which lead me to believe that if we can only upgrade 1 of them, I'd rather get a Hauser upgrade, rather than a Pritchard upgrade.

If you disagree, that's fine. It's not surprising, since you've made like 300 posts about Pritchard on here and they've basically all been negative. Meanwhile, I like to think I'm pretty neutral and objective. Over the years, I've had some positive things as well as some negative things to say about both players.

I think they can both help us win a championship - I'd just prefer having only 1 of them (at the most) in or 8 man playoff rotation (for reasons I mentioned in my previous post).

[BK_2020]

They have similar 3P% but that's due to Hauser having a much harder shot diet

Eh, idk about that. As we all know, off the dribble shots are harder to make than catch and shoot looks....

Pritchard: 45.2% of his 3's are catch and shoot. 21.1% of his 3's are pull-ups.
Hauser: 77.9% of his 3's are catch and shoot. 7.5% of his 3's are pull-ups.

That would indicate Pritchard has the harder shot diet.

Pritchard is +2.9 and Hauser is +2.2 for on/off. There's little difference and it's kinda pointless anyway to compare halfseason on/off for bench players.

Yes, I already said in my post that they're comparable in on/off, net rating and plus minus. BUT if we look at the games we have lost (in particular the games we've lost over the past 2.5 months or so) Pritchard has a significant edge in these categories (as well as a much higher TS%). Again, this tells me that if we had someone better getting Hauser's mins, perhaps we would have won some of those games instead of losing them.

You can say the on/off numbers for a half season of bench players meaningless but that's why I included a bunch of other things in my post. Like drives per game, 2 pt field goals made, rebounding, etc. It all adds up, they're all pieces to the puzzle which lead me to believe that if we can only upgrade 1 of them, I'd rather get a Hauser upgrade, rather than a Pritchard upgrade.

If you disagree, that's fine. It's not surprising, since you've made like 300 posts about Pritchard on here and they've basically all been negative. Meanwhile, I like to think I'm pretty neutral and objective. Over the years, I've had some positive things as well as some negative things to say about both players.

I think they can both help us win a championship - I'd just prefer having only 1 of them (at the most) in or 8 man playoff rotation (for reasons I mentioned in my previous post).

Off the dribble threes are harder if you are coming off picks and pulling up. They are not harder if you are just doing a step back or a sidestep to let a defender closing out fly by. Pritchard isn't launching threes off a pick and roll.
There's really nothing to take away from looking at the games we lost. That's 12 games for guys averaging 20 minutes per game.

[hugepatsfan]

Just because we have the best record in the NBA doesn't mean there isn't clear opportunity to upgrade. Our starting 5 is obviously terrific. Horford is probably the best backup big man in the NBA. That's all rock solid.

Pritchard was played off the court at times last time he was in the playoff rotation. And yeah, maybe a more consistent role will help make him better on offense/shooting. But he was played off the court because he was too small to defend ISOs. He hasn't grown since then. You can't pencil Pritchard in for all rounds. There will be matchups he's not useful for.

Kornet has given some fine regular season minutes but regular season vs. postseason basketball is an entirely different game for centers. Many guys who play well in the regular season get glued to the bench in the playoffs and Kornet is pretty obviously in that group.

Brissett is given good energy but another guy whose game doesn't profile well for a playoff rotation.

Hauser on paper is everything you could want in a 7th/8th man. Shooter and passable defender. But still unproven.

We have a clear and definite opening for someone in the 7th/8th/9th spot of the playoff rotation. Not saying we could never get by with what we have, but it's a very clear area we could improve. And with a TPE, some minimum salary fodder to trade and picks we should definitely be turning over every stone. Not saying we get a stud but I find it hard to believe there isn't a reasonable deal out there that nets us something useful, even if not game-changing.

[BK_2020]

Brad, do something

[Parliament10]

Just because we have the best record in the NBA doesn't mean there isn't clear opportunity to upgrade. Our starting 5 is obviously terrific. Horford is probably the best backup big man in the NBA. That's all rock solid.

Pritchard was played off the court at times last time he was in the playoff rotation. And yeah, maybe a more consistent role will help make him better on offense/shooting. But he was played off the court because he was too small to defend ISOs. He hasn't grown since then. You can't pencil Pritchard in for all rounds. There will be matchups he's not useful for.

Kornet has given some fine regular season minutes but regular season vs. postseason basketball is an entirely different game for centers. Many guys who play well in the regular season get glued to the bench in the playoffs and Kornet is pretty obviously in that group.

Brissett is given good energy but another guy whose game doesn't profile well for a playoff rotation.

Hauser on paper is everything you could want in a 7th/8th man. Shooter and passable defender. But still unproven.

We have a clear and definite opening for someone in the 7th/8th/9th spot of the playoff rotation. Not saying we could never get by with what we have, but it's a very clear area we could improve. And with a TPE, some minimum salary fodder to trade and picks we should definitely be turning over every stone. Not saying we get a stud but I find it hard to believe there isn't a reasonable deal out there that nets us something useful, even if not game-changing.

Celtics Roster, 1st Half, 2023-24:
Starters: Holiday - White - Brown - Tatum - Porzingis
Rotation: Pritchard - Hauser - Horford / (Kornet)
Reserves: Banton - Mykhailiuk - Brissett - Stevens
Two-Ways: Davison - (Walsh ®) - Peterson - [Queta]

All of our guys are young. I'm sure that the Grass seems Greener, somewhere else.
But I see no sense in Trading our Reserves. All of them can contribute (albeit in future years) to some degree.

I can see bringing Queta up, and/or maybe Trading for someone like Saddiq Bey; w/o any players going back.
Other than that, we should just roll with who we have.

[Curmudgeon]

We need to upgrade at the top, not at the bottom.

[BK_2020]

We need to upgrade at the top, not at the bottom.

Oh my god that's a great idea let's trade Tatum for Jokic.

[Celts17Pride]

Read on Twitter

[Curmudgeon]

We need to upgrade at the top, not at the bottom.

Oh my god that's a great idea let's trade Tatum for Jokic.

Fine with me. But the one who really has to go is Brown. Brown is not a championship caliber player. This team is just another tease. They will find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the playoffs.