NYK - Bulls: Caruso and Grimes

[ScrantonBulls]

Bulls get: Quentin Grimes
Evan Fournier
Protected future 1st

Knicks get: Caruso
Jevon Carter
Terry Taylor (filler)

Knicks get an elite defender and a player EVERY contender wants, Caruso. He is a jack of all trades while having elite defense and BBIQ.
Jevon Carter is having an off year, but he was a good shooter and defender last season. He definitely has a place on a contender if he reverts back.

Bulls need to shed salary to avoid the luxury tax next season. Fournier has a club option. He gone. They also get a younger player with potential in Quentin Grimes.

What do you say? I'm not sure Grimes value really. Maybe the Bulls don't get a 1st. But Caruso would be filthy with OG and Thibs.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh it needs the first. Caruso is a much more impactful player and Grimes doesn't project to be anything special.

[cgf]

Since Grimes has no value, let's just leave him out of it and have the knicks include extra draft capital to compensate...if we even need to compensate for keeping him out of the deal.

[Texas Chuck]

Since Grimes has no value, let's just leave him out of it and have the knicks include extra draft capital to compensate...if we even need to compensate for keeping him out of the deal.

I doubt he has no value. Not sure why we have to be so extreme. What I posted was he doesn't have Caruso value.

Now I do agree that if Thibs no longer is fed up with him as reported, then replacing him with a couple 2nds should be fine with Chicago and no obstacle to getting the deal done. But if that reporting is right it would make sense to use his value in a trade. Either way.

[ScrantonBulls]

Oh it needs the first. Caruso is a much more impactful player and Grimes doesn't project to be anything special.

Gotcha. I figured he had some potential based on his previous season.

[cgf]

Since Grimes has no value, let's just leave him out of it and have the knicks include extra draft capital to compensate...if we even need to compensate for keeping him out of the deal.

I doubt he has no value. Not sure why we have to be so extreme. What I posted was he doesn't have Caruso value.

Now I do agree that if Thibs no longer is fed up with him as reported, then replacing him with a couple 2nds should be fine with Chicago and no obstacle to getting the deal done. But if that reporting is right it would make sense to use his value in a trade. Either way.

Not being extreme. You said he doesn't project to be anything special, and if that's how he's viewed by other teams then there shouldn't be any problem with us replacing whatever value he's being assigned with a SRP or three...or even a 2nd meh FRP...no?

EDIT:
When the chips were down and our season was on the line, Thibs was trusting the kid's defense with 40+ minutes against Miami.

If Donte becomes unplayable because he shoots 31% from 3 in the playoffs for us too; or they start Okoro'ing Josh Hart because he's hesitant to take 3s & doesn't shoot them very well even when confident...like the Lakers did last night & Miami did at times last spring...we'll need both Grimes and Caruso to step up, even if McBride is on fire.

So unless a team really treasures Grimes...like the Hawks reportedly do...we're better off just using some of our excess draft capital. Especially if we're dealing with a team that's already as guard-heavy as the Bulls are.

[drosestruts]

a pick and a young player like Grimes seems in line with Caruso's value. I think one issue is fit from the Bulls perspective - who are and have been overly guard heavy. Caruso works in their guard heavy lineups to a degree due to his ability to effectively guard bigger players.

Grimes would be joining an existing group of young guards in Coby White and Ayo Dosunmu.

I think if a forward version of Grimes existed it could make a lot more sense.

[cgf]

a pick and a young player like Grimes seems in line with Caruso's value. I think one issue is fit from the Bulls perspective - who are and have been overly guard heavy. Caruso works in their guard heavy lineups to a degree due to his ability to effectively guard bigger players.

Grimes would be joining an existing group of young guards in Coby White and Ayo Dosunmu.

I think if a forward version of Grimes existed it could make a lot more sense.

I mean, we can just give you a 2nd FRP (or some SRPs) so you can go out and get a forward version of Grimes for yourselves.

...but Pat is already the forward version of Grimes. Right down to the bouts of being too hesitant / passive offensively when their confidence is low

[pipfan]

I like Grimes-give us the better of their pick this year and Grimes-or is that asking too much?

[drosestruts]

a pick and a young player like Grimes seems in line with Caruso's value. I think one issue is fit from the Bulls perspective - who are and have been overly guard heavy. Caruso works in their guard heavy lineups to a degree due to his ability to effectively guard bigger players.

Grimes would be joining an existing group of young guards in Coby White and Ayo Dosunmu.

I think if a forward version of Grimes existed it could make a lot more sense.

I mean, we can just give you a 2nd FRP (or some SRPs) so you can go out and get a forward version of Grimes for yourselves.

...but Pat is already the forward version of Grimes. Right down to the bouts of being too hesitant / passive offensively when their confidence is low

2 firsts has been the rumored asking price. And I'd imagine 2 firsts is more attractive to the Bulls than a first and Grimes who will need a new contract soon.

If I magically became the Bulls gm I'd probably just keep Caruso and try to re-sign him. Guys that routineley grade out in the 90+ percentile in on/off just don't grow on trees.

[Syko_boB]

We need a thread for AC Fresh on all contenders best deals

Who's in on it besides

LAL - GSW - NYK - MIL - DAL - CLE - BOS - ORL


Lakers would probably do
Gabe + 1st with options
Or
JHS & Min guy (Reddish/Hayes)

Golden State could go a few ways with it
- Moody & mins?

NY as discussed in this thread, seems to be
Grimes + the 1sts as the bulk of value

Milwaukee could offer Pat & Marjon?

Dallas kind of a similar situation as GS where they might need a 3rd team if Chi doesn't value their bigger pieces
- Hardy or Green interest Chi?

Cleveland could pop up with something around Okoro and picks

Boston would have to clear their bench of Pritchard Kornet and Brisset to make the salaries match

A team like Orlando has a lot of assets to put forth as well if they are ready for a move like this


I think it comes down to LA vs NY, and I believe the Bulls won't be able to refuse the offer with less protections and a quality prospect

[patman66]

We need a thread for AC Fresh on all contenders best deals

Who's in on it besides

LAL - GSW - NYK - MIL - DAL - CLE - BOS - ORL


Lakers would probably do
Gabe + 1st with options
Or
JHS & Min guy (Reddish/Hayes)

Golden State could go a few ways with it
- Moody & mins?

NY as discussed in this thread, seems to be
Grimes + the 1sts as the bulk of value

Milwaukee could offer Pat & Marjon?

Dallas kind of a similar situation as GS where they might need a 3rd team if Chi doesn't value their bigger pieces
- Hardy or Green interest Chi?

Cleveland could pop up with something around Okoro and picks

Boston would have to clear their bench of Pritchard Kornet and Brisset to make the salaries match

A team like Orlando has a lot of assets to put forth as well if they are ready for a move like this


I think it comes down to LA vs NY, and I believe the Bulls won't be able to refuse the offer with less protections and a quality prospect

Boston could do it with Stevens, Svi, and Banton if they thought a first was required by the bulls. Not three guys who are now playing 50 min a game.

[Knickfan1982]

a pick and a young player like Grimes seems in line with Caruso's value. I think one issue is fit from the Bulls perspective - who are and have been overly guard heavy. Caruso works in their guard heavy lineups to a degree due to his ability to effectively guard bigger players.

Grimes would be joining an existing group of young guards in Coby White and Ayo Dosunmu.

I think if a forward version of Grimes existed it could make a lot more sense.

I mean, we can just give you a 2nd FRP (or some SRPs) so you can go out and get a forward version of Grimes for yourselves.

...but Pat is already the forward version of Grimes. Right down to the bouts of being too hesitant / passive offensively when their confidence is low

2 firsts has been the rumored asking price. And I'd imagine 2 firsts is more attractive to the Bulls than a first and Grimes who will need a new contract soon.

If I magically became the Bulls gm I'd probably just keep Caruso and try to re-sign him. Guys that routineley grade out in the 90+ percentile in on/off just don't grow on trees.

For the record, just because they are asking for 2 firsts it doesn't mean they'd get them. Teams always aim high to start negotiations and 2 firsts is more than I'd be willing to pay. Grimes and a pick is less expensive and more reasonable I think. Its more than I'd want to pay for someone destined to be a backup and isn't exactly the playmaker we need but I don't want to keep torpedoing Grimes' value. You get a little over a season to see if Grimes is someone who can be a part of your team long term and a pick. We get a good defender and shooter to backup Brunson.

[Knickfan1982]

We need a thread for AC Fresh on all contenders best deals

Who's in on it besides

LAL - GSW - NYK - MIL - DAL - CLE - BOS - ORL


Lakers would probably do
Gabe + 1st with options
Or
JHS & Min guy (Reddish/Hayes)

Golden State could go a few ways with it
- Moody & mins?

NY as discussed in this thread, seems to be
Grimes + the 1sts as the bulk of value

Milwaukee could offer Pat & Marjon?

Dallas kind of a similar situation as GS where they might need a 3rd team if Chi doesn't value their bigger pieces
- Hardy or Green interest Chi?

Cleveland could pop up with something around Okoro and picks

Boston would have to clear their bench of Pritchard Kornet and Brisset to make the salaries match

A team like Orlando has a lot of assets to put forth as well if they are ready for a move like this


I think it comes down to LA vs NY, and I believe the Bulls won't be able to refuse the offer with less protections and a quality prospect

You added an extra "s" to Grimes and pick.

[cgf]

a pick and a young player like Grimes seems in line with Caruso's value. I think one issue is fit from the Bulls perspective - who are and have been overly guard heavy. Caruso works in their guard heavy lineups to a degree due to his ability to effectively guard bigger players.

Grimes would be joining an existing group of young guards in Coby White and Ayo Dosunmu.

I think if a forward version of Grimes existed it could make a lot more sense.

I mean, we can just give you a 2nd FRP (or some SRPs) so you can go out and get a forward version of Grimes for yourselves.

...but Pat is already the forward version of Grimes. Right down to the bouts of being too hesitant / passive offensively when their confidence is low

2 firsts has been the rumored asking price. And I'd imagine 2 firsts is more attractive to the Bulls than a first and Grimes who will need a new contract soon.

If I magically became the Bulls gm I'd probably just keep Caruso and try to re-sign him. Guys that routineley grade out in the 90+ percentile in on/off just don't grow on trees.

With how weak this draft supposedly is, you might even get two FRPs. I still feel like 1 FRP + 2-3 SRPs is closer in a vacuum, but it sounds like teams are a lot more ready to spend their FRPs than usual. So I'd give up the DAL FRP + our 24 FRP to add AC without losing Grimes.

Though I'd also want you to give us Craig...and in a perfect world we could snag a contract like Shamet's to make the cap math work. Shamet's contract is unguaranteed for both of the next two seasons, so we could keep him as salary filler for a future trade, or let him go if we needed the room to dodge the super-tax.

[ChettheJet]

First;;;;; you're only saving the Bulls about $10M in year 2 of contracts for Caruso and Carter so that's a false narrative. Look at the description of what Caruso gives the Knicks plus possibly Carter, you need to pay to get that. In addition you're moving off a bench riding Fournier who is going to cost money as a buyout candidate. You pay to save.

So yeah the Bulls take Grimes just to see how he does outside of NY and where he slots in with Terry and Dosunmu who they trust. So 2 picks protected or not but that's the price for the benefits coming to the Knicks.

[cgf]

First;;;;; you're only saving the Bulls about $10M in year 2 of contracts for Caruso and Carter so that's a false narrative. Look at the description of what Caruso gives the Knicks plus possibly Carter, you need to pay to get that. In addition you're moving off a bench riding Fournier who is going to cost money as a buyout candidate. You pay to save.

So yeah the Bulls take Grimes just to see how he does outside of NY and where he slots in with Terry and Dosunmu who they trust. So 2 picks protected or not but that's the price for the benefits coming to the Knicks.

Missing out on getting two FRPs for Caruso because AK gets greedy and demands Grimes as well, would be so on-brand

[brackdan70]

We need a thread for AC Fresh on all contenders best deals

Who's in on it besides

LAL - GSW - NYK - MIL - DAL - CLE - BOS - ORL


Lakers would probably do
Gabe + 1st with options
Or
JHS & Min guy (Reddish/Hayes)

Golden State could go a few ways with it
- Moody & mins?

NY as discussed in this thread, seems to be
Grimes + the 1sts as the bulk of value

Milwaukee could offer Pat & Marjon?

Dallas kind of a similar situation as GS where they might need a 3rd team if Chi doesn't value their bigger pieces
- Hardy or Green interest Chi?

Cleveland could pop up with something around Okoro and picks

Boston would have to clear their bench of Pritchard Kornet and Brisset to make the salaries match

A team like Orlando has a lot of assets to put forth as well if they are ready for a move like this


I think it comes down to LA vs NY, and I believe the Bulls won't be able to refuse the offer with less protections and a quality prospect

Boston could do it with Stevens, Svi, and Banton if they thought a first was required by the bulls. Not three guys who are now playing 50 min a game.

Boston needs to come up with 8.6 million outgoing. Likely need to include PP and at least 2 others.

[brackdan70]

We need a thread for AC Fresh on all contenders best deals

Who's in on it besides

LAL - GSW - NYK - MIL - DAL - CLE - BOS - ORL


Lakers would probably do
Gabe + 1st with options
Or
JHS & Min guy (Reddish/Hayes)

Golden State could go a few ways with it
- Moody & mins?

NY as discussed in this thread, seems to be
Grimes + the 1sts as the bulk of value

Milwaukee could offer Pat & Marjon?

Dallas kind of a similar situation as GS where they might need a 3rd team if Chi doesn't value their bigger pieces
- Hardy or Green interest Chi?

Cleveland could pop up with something around Okoro and picks

Boston would have to clear their bench of Pritchard Kornet and Brisset to make the salaries match

A team like Orlando has a lot of assets to put forth as well if they are ready for a move like this


I think it comes down to LA vs NY, and I believe the Bulls won't be able to refuse the offer with less protections and a quality prospect

Boston could do it with Stevens, Svi, and Banton if they thought a first was required by the bulls. Not three guys who are now playing 50 min a game.

My best Boston Package would be Pritchard, Kornet, Hauser, Jordan Walsh, 24 frp and a future pick swap for Caruso and bring Drummond into the Grant TPE. To balance rosters another Bull could be included in the TPE if he makes 3 million or less.

That is a lot of change for a team with the best priced in the league and seemingly good chemistry though…but adding Caruso might be worth it.
Bostons Bench plus then be Horford, Caruso, Brissett and Drummond. I think Drummond is a downgrade from Kornet but Caruso is an upgrade of PP/Hauser.

Is this enough for Chicago?
Edit: Walsh has FRP value imo with his contract. He has been showing some skills in G league and is under 20 yo.

[dawhizz]

We need a thread for AC Fresh on all contenders best deals

Who's in on it besides

LAL - GSW - NYK - MIL - DAL - CLE - BOS - ORL


Lakers would probably do
Gabe + 1st with options
Or
JHS & Min guy (Reddish/Hayes)

Golden State could go a few ways with it
- Moody & mins?

NY as discussed in this thread, seems to be
Grimes + the 1sts as the bulk of value

Milwaukee could offer Pat & Marjon?

Dallas kind of a similar situation as GS where they might need a 3rd team if Chi doesn't value their bigger pieces
- Hardy or Green interest Chi?

Cleveland could pop up with something around Okoro and picks

Boston would have to clear their bench of Pritchard Kornet and Brisset to make the salaries match

A team like Orlando has a lot of assets to put forth as well if they are ready for a move like this


I think it comes down to LA vs NY, and I believe the Bulls won't be able to refuse the offer with less protections and a quality prospect

What about OKC, especially if they can get Drummond too? Something like Caruso & Drummond for Dieng, Wiggins, Poku, and one of their billion FRPs.