Ut/NY/ATL

[jazzfan1971]

ATL trades
____
Murray

ATL gets
-----
Fournier (exp)
2025 Jazz first. If it is in top 4 the Minny 2025 1st unprotected
2027 Jazz first. If top 4 then Lakers 2027 instead.
2 second rounders from NY (ny chooses which)

Why for ATL: They get two pretty tasty Firsts for Murray. And an expiring. Also throwing two 2nds for that extra push.

NY trades
Fournier
2 second rounders

NY gets
Olynyk
Dunn

Why for NY: My turns Fournier into two expiring vets who are able to contribute now. NY can pick which seconds they want to send.

Utah trades
Olynyk
Dunn
2 Firsts

Utah gets
Murray.

Why for Utah. Utah could really use a veteran PG to lead the team right now

[jayjaysee]

I don’t know if two 2nds would be the top bid for that duo.. but maybe? Think it would be more.

And I love Murray in Utah as a really affordable number 3. Sets Utah up to trade for whatever star they can and stay under tax for a few years thanks to Kessler and some other cheap talent, and Lauri likely being under his true 30% max.

For Atlanta, it is okay value. I think Atlanta probably pushes for a bit more, or to make the picks “better of” type options.. At least one of them? Maybe try to get Ochai and let Utah have the 3-4 seconds from NY?

If Kelly is only worth this, I’d just cut NYK out and use THT.. Would rather have Kelly 18-22mpg than a couple extra 2nds of I’m pushing for the playoffs.

[jazzfan1971]

Maybe. Feel free to improve the deal

[psman2]

If Utah is making this move it also means they are likely making some more win now moves as well. Thus reducing the value of the Utah future 1sts. I think involving some other picks Utah owns here might be required. Like the Best of 2025 with some protections and the 2nd best of 2027 with some protections...etc.

[Knickfan1982]

ATL trades
____
Murray

ATL gets
-----
Fournier (exp)
2025 Jazz first. If it is in top 4 the Minny 2025 1st unprotected
2027 Jazz first. If top 4 then Lakers 2027 instead.
2 second rounders from NY (ny chooses which)

Why for ATL: They get two pretty tasty Firsts for Murray. And an expiring. Also throwing two 2nds for that extra push.

NY trades
Fournier
2 second rounders

NY gets
Olynyk
Dunn

Why for NY: My turns Fournier into two expiring vets who are able to contribute now. NY can pick which seconds they want to send.

Utah trades
Olynyk
Dunn
2 Firsts

Utah gets
Murray.

Why for Utah. Utah could really use a veteran PG to lead the team right now

I would do that deal.

[CAE15]

0 reason for the Knicks to be in this deal. Hawks aren't going to value Fournier, so Jazz can just send expiring money to the hawks. Also i really highly doubt that 2 2nds gets you both Olynyk and Dunn. Knicks picks suck anyway. But they should at least be parting with something of value in this trade.

[Knickfan1982]

0 reason for the Knicks to be in this deal. Hawks aren't going to value Fournier, so Jazz can just send expiring money to the hawks. Also i really highly doubt that 2 2nds gets you both Olynyk and Dunn. Knicks picks suck anyway. But they should at least be parting with something of value in this trade.

What exactly are the Jazz sending the Knicks that would demand more? A backup Center. A point guard destined for the buyout market if he were to join us? Dunn is technically not even necessary. We'll take him on as part of the deal but let's not pretend he's anything other than filler and is destined to be cut were the deal to go through.

[JayTWill]

0 reason for the Knicks to be in this deal. Hawks aren't going to value Fournier, so Jazz can just send expiring money to the hawks. Also i really highly doubt that 2 2nds gets you both Olynyk and Dunn. Knicks picks suck anyway. But they should at least be parting with something of value in this trade.

What exactly are the Jazz sending the Knicks that would demand more? A backup Center. A point guard destined for the buyout market if he were to join us? Dunn is technically not even necessary. We'll take him on as part of the deal but let's not pretend he's anything other than filler and is destined to be cut were the deal to go through.

I actually like Dunn a lot for the Knicks. Yes, his scoring is limited but he is still one the best guard defenders in the league. The Knicks have McBride but Dunn is a much more experienced point guard, a better distributor and can get into the paint more easily. My biggest issue with Dunn would be his lack of scoring from the perimeter combined with other bench pieces like Hart and the other bigs. Dunn's percentages aren't bad but he is someone teams play off of because of his limited volume.

I can understand wanting to continue to play and develop McBride but it would be nice to have a more experienced ballhandler especially for the playoffs. I can't see any reason the Knicks would cut Dunn and retain someone like Flynn. Olynyk and Dunn would be excellent depth pieces especially with all the injuries the Knicks have and the minutes being placed on the starters even though i'm not sure how much Thibs would play either since Thibs is Thibs.

[jazzfan1971]

I'm seeing rumors that the Jazz and Lakers made offers on Murray.

[Knickfan1982]

0 reason for the Knicks to be in this deal. Hawks aren't going to value Fournier, so Jazz can just send expiring money to the hawks. Also i really highly doubt that 2 2nds gets you both Olynyk and Dunn. Knicks picks suck anyway. But they should at least be parting with something of value in this trade.

What exactly are the Jazz sending the Knicks that would demand more? A backup Center. A point guard destined for the buyout market if he were to join us? Dunn is technically not even necessary. We'll take him on as part of the deal but let's not pretend he's anything other than filler and is destined to be cut were the deal to go through.

I actually like Dunn a lot for the Knicks. Yes, his scoring is limited but he is still one the best guard defenders in the league. The Knicks have McBride but Dunn is a much more experienced point guard, a better distributor and can get into the paint more easily. My biggest issue with Dunn would be his lack of scoring from the perimeter combined with other bench pieces like Hart and the other bigs. Dunn's percentages aren't bad but he is someone teams play off of because of his limited volume.

I can understand wanting to continue to play and develop McBride but it would be nice to have a more experienced ballhandler especially for the playoffs. I can't see any reason the Knicks would cut Dunn and retain someone like Flynn. Olynyk and Dunn would be excellent depth pieces especially with all the injuries the Knicks have and the minutes being placed on the starters even though i'm not sure how much Thibs would play either since Thibs is Thibs.

Dunn would certainly be more useful than Flynn. I honestly don't know why we haven't cut him yet because every minute he plays is a minute too many. I'll take Dunn but my response is more of a reaction to the guy who is all upset about how little Olynyk and Dunn are worth. They aren't worth a lot. Their bench players who have some skills that could help a teams second unit but with sufficient flaws that their role should be limited. Plus they are expiring contracts and not exactly young so a second rounder for each is more than fair.

[jazzfan1971]

I wouldnt be surprised If Olynyk fetches more than a second actually.

[EireannX]

I don't think the Jazz can trade both those firsts until they have conveyed one to OKC plus one year, or am I missing something?

[Texas Chuck]

I wouldnt be surprised If Olynyk fetches more than a second actually.

Yeah feels like more than one 2nd, less than one first, doesn't it? Something like one known good 2nd this year plus a future or just 3 future mystery box 2nds or maybe a rookie contract guy a team is ready to move on from. Like the Knicks seem to be doing okay with Precious, but I could see a Grimes based Olynyk offer.

[JayTWill]

I wouldnt be surprised If Olynyk fetches more than a second actually.

Out of curiosity who could you see offering more for Olynyk and what type of draft compensation would you expect in a trade for Dunn alone with a small expiring contract like Flynn coming back to Utah?

[jazzfan1971]

I think a lot of contending teams would value him. Plus I've heard guys from non-jazz podcasts talking up his value a bit.

Chuck seems to be of a very similar mind as I am as to what he could fetch.

[Knickfan1982]

I wouldnt be surprised If Olynyk fetches more than a second actually.

Yeah feels like more than one 2nd, less than one first, doesn't it? Something like one known good 2nd this year plus a future or just 3 future mystery box 2nds or maybe a rookie contract guy a team is ready to move on from. Like the Knicks seem to be doing okay with Precious, but I could see a Grimes based Olynyk offer.

Grimes, Fournier for Olynyk, Luka Semanic and 2025 Cleveland first works for me.

[Texas Chuck]

I wouldnt be surprised If Olynyk fetches more than a second actually.

Yeah feels like more than one 2nd, less than one first, doesn't it? Something like one known good 2nd this year plus a future or just 3 future mystery box 2nds or maybe a rookie contract guy a team is ready to move on from. Like the Knicks seem to be doing okay with Precious, but I could see a Grimes based Olynyk offer.

Grimes, Fournier for Olynyk, Luka Semanic and 2025 Cleveland first works for me.

I'm sure it does with the Knicks getting the two most valuable pieces back.

[Knickfan1982]

Yeah feels like more than one 2nd, less than one first, doesn't it? Something like one known good 2nd this year plus a future or just 3 future mystery box 2nds or maybe a rookie contract guy a team is ready to move on from. Like the Knicks seem to be doing okay with Precious, but I could see a Grimes based Olynyk offer.

Grimes, Fournier for Olynyk, Luka Semanic and 2025 Cleveland first works for me.

I'm sure it does with the Knicks getting the two most valuable pieces back.

They aren't. Grimes and the first are the most valuable pieces and each team is getting one of those pieces.

[cgf]

Grimes -2.2 off, +1.3 def, -0.9 EPM, 1.2 EW
Olynyk +0.2 off, -1.6 def, -1.4 EPM, 1.0 EW

Grimes -0.92 LEBRON, -0.58 O-LEBRON, -0.34 D-LEBRON, 0.9 WAR
Olynyk -0.6 LEBRON, -0.51 O-Lebron, -0.09 D-LeBron, 1.10 WAR


Good thing the 32yo Olynyk still has the potential to close the gap as he enters his prime

[Knickfan1982]

Yeah feels like more than one 2nd, less than one first, doesn't it? Something like one known good 2nd this year plus a future or just 3 future mystery box 2nds or maybe a rookie contract guy a team is ready to move on from. Like the Knicks seem to be doing okay with Precious, but I could see a Grimes based Olynyk offer.

Grimes, Fournier for Olynyk, Luka Semanic and 2025 Cleveland first works for me.

I'm sure it does with the Knicks getting the two most valuable pieces back.

But you know what...please explain to me how Olynyk is more valuable than Grimes despite:

1. Being much more expensive
2. Being almost 10 years older
3. Having an expiring contract whereas Grimes has another year left on his deal before he becomes a Restricted Free Agent
4. Being the objectively far worse defender

Sure there is some value in being a stretch big but over the course of his career his 3pt% is very close to Grimes' despite taking almost half as many shots from that range.