Political Roundtable Part XXXII

[montestewart]

Yeah, context and nuance are lost on a lot of people.

[pancakes3]

none of the conservatives lurking this board want the smoke. just drive-by's.

[Wizardspride]

none of the conservatives lurking this board want the smoke. just drive-by's.

Pretty much.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=tpzeWhwKqSmM3trlQ_Ls3w&s=19

[popper]

none of the conservatives lurking this board want the smoke. just drive-by's.

Except for a single post on the last page, conservatives don't participate on this thread anymore. Why would anyone with a brain waste their time.

I read it because I'm intrigued by the ignorance/stupidity of those who do post here. I was guilty myself until I realized that the thread is nothing more than a regurgitation of CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT's propaganda. I must admit it's entertaining but also sad as a commentary for the future of our country. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I've never witnessed such an intellectually cloistered group of hive-minded partisans in my entire life.

[pancakes3]

none of the conservatives lurking this board want the smoke. just drive-by's.

Except for a single post on the last page, conservatives don't participate on this thread anymore. Why would anyone with a brain waste their time.

I read it because I'm intrigued by the ignorance/stupidity of those who do post here. I was guilty myself until I realized that the thread is nothing more than a regurgitation of CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT's propaganda. I must admit it's entertaining but also sad as a commentary for the future of our country. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I've never witnessed such an intellectually cloistered group of hive-minded partisans in my entire life.

qed

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=u4mjIZEkZpVMXe8KBffMYA&s=19

[Pointgod]

none of the conservatives lurking this board want the smoke. just drive-by's.

Except for a single post on the last page, conservatives don't participate on this thread anymore. Why would anyone with a brain waste their time.

I read it because I'm intrigued by the ignorance/stupidity of those who do post here. I was guilty myself until I realized that the thread is nothing more than a regurgitation of CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT's propaganda. I must admit it's entertaining but also sad as a commentary for the future of our country. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I've never witnessed such an intellectually cloistered group of hive-minded partisans in my entire life.

Let it all out pop pop

[popper]

none of the conservatives lurking this board want the smoke. just drive-by's.

Except for a single post on the last page, conservatives don't participate on this thread anymore. Why would anyone with a brain waste their time.

I read it because I'm intrigued by the ignorance/stupidity of those who do post here. I was guilty myself until I realized that the thread is nothing more than a regurgitation of CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT's propaganda. I must admit it's entertaining but also sad as a commentary for the future of our country. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I've never witnessed such an intellectually cloistered group of hive-minded partisans in my entire life.

Let it all out pop pop

Yeah. Probably a bit too harsh. I don't think anyone here is stupid. I do think there's a good bit of ignorance and tribalism. It's cool.

[Zonkerbl]

I love all this "don't believe your lying eyes" stuff from the conservatives.

Talk about ignorant, tribe minded partisans. They watch Trump (with Fox News parroting him!) literally all day long calling the free press the enemy of the people and then say "oh how stupid these liberals are to say Trump doesn't want a free press." You have to wonder if conservatives are even sentient or are they puppets getting their strings pulled by Trump and the other billionaires running Fox News and the other conservative outlets. Sickening really.

I beg the drive by conservatives on this board to read "We" by Evgeniy Zamyatin. Or Orwell's 1984, which is a blatant plagiarism of it, but "We" is better. Or "On Tyranny" by Timothy Snyder. Or just read a book, any book, and try, try, try to think for yourself. Being manipulated is bad, right? You don't want to be scammed, nobody does. So why are you letting other people think for you? And don't say "ah typical liberal pretending he's thinking for himself when he believes everything the liberal media tells him to" because that is Fox News' main lie. That is actually what Fox News is doing to YOU.

The first step to thinking for yourself is to think, hey maybe it's possible liberals are actually acting in good faith. Because Fox News absolutely is not.

[Zonkerbl]

Stop watching Fox News and talking to people brainwashed by Fox News challenge for conservatives:

1. Don't watch Fox News for one year.
2. Stop going to bars and getting Fox News propaganda reinforced by your drinking buddies. You drink too much anyway.
3. Spend more time with your family. Give your mom a call. Reach out to your kids, invite them over, spend a day smoking bbq with them.
4. If you have time left over read "We" or "1984" or "On Tyranny" or "Clockwork Orange".
5. Want more to read? Learn what critical race theory actually is. Here is a list of the top five books to read to educate yourself about it:

https://shepherd.com/best-books/understanding-critical-race-theory

6. Learn to recognize signs that you are being manipulated:

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/signs-manipulation

7. Learn about fascism and totalitarianism. Read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." Read "The Great Terror" by Robert Conquest, but ask yourself "how similar is this to what is going on in the Republican Party right now?

I wish Democrats were organized enough to be at risk of taking over the country Stalin style. The fact of the matter is the Republicans currently represent the super powerful, super wealthy minority most at risk of taking over this country and flushing democracy and the free press down the toilet.

Don't believe me, fine, I get it. All I ask is that if you don't believe me, someone who has established his credibility over the last twenty years on this thread, then certainly don't believe Fox News, whose job it is to lie and manipulate you.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[Kanyewest]

Read on Twitter

By the way the comments don't seem to understand how inflation works. People are saying that prices have increased significantly over several years, but the rate of the increase has slowed significantly in the past year That being said, since the prices are already high so so some Americans may choose to blame Biden, although they have been already inclined to blame him for anything bad, especially if they were already upset with him.

Not sure what happened recently to make people more likely to support Trump since the last poll since the increase in the stock market, but it is looking like another close election.

[pancakes3]

I'm nonpartisan. I think the democrats have a lot of problems, but they're the only ones who are talking about the problems and proposing solutions. Republicans basically don't exist, as far as meaningful governance goes.

Climate Change. R's have gone from "it's too expensive" to outright denying it. I'm not sure how anyone who votes red can claim that they are on the side of being informed on this issue.

Economy. Wage disparity is real. There's darn near 70 years worth of data on this. And yet, republicans refuse to acknowledge it. It's just the free market at work, baby. Except it's not. Corporations have manipulated capitalism in a way that workers' rights and environmental externalities are deleted from the equation to justify the plutocratic nightmare we're living in. The fact that someone can champion the fact that the system that is sending South American pears to SE Asian canning plants to European markets as the efficient market solution is blind and ignorant to the actual cost of bringing those pears to market. Same thing with gas prices. Same thing with everything we buy.

The list goes on and on and on. LBGTQ+ issues. Abortion. Universal healthcare. Racism in policing, housing, hiring, lending, voting, and education. Everything needs to be reduced to a quip. Ingram was a Russian lit major, Jesse Waters a history major, and Hannity a dropout. They don't possess expertise in anything, and yet they pull in millions of viewers who listen to their COMPREHENSIVE POLITICAL OPINIONS daily. Who cares what they say? They never provide context, or research. They just go straight to the conclusion, and handwave everything else. You're telling me that random Newsmax host who has never heard of Houthis 3 months ago is now qualified to provide political opinions on the geopolitics of Yemen? And then in the next segment give legal opinions on NY fraud, GA RICO, and Colorado election law? See, that's the thing about these shows hiding behind being "opinion" shows. A news anchor CAN do it, if they just report the facts. Read the teleprompter, you don't need to know the geopolitical context of Houthi rebels. As an opinion show though, you need to provide analysis - a conclusion. Except right wing news just skips the analysis, and forcefeeds you the conclusion whether it's well-reasoned or not. It's so... irresponsible? It's just yap.

Elizabeth Warren, love her or hate her, is one of the world's foremost experts on US Bankruptcy Law. Literally wrote the book. But Tucker Freaking Carlson gets to call her pocahontas, or a shrew or whatever line-crossing slur he feels like that day.

That's the thing now too. R's don't care about qualifications. Congress has one job, and it's to pass laws. But MTG can sit there and get into a pissing match with Boebert, and it's front page political news. Nobody wants to talk about how NOTHING IS GETTING DONE.

I find it incredibly sad that Popper can dismiss me, and other libs as naive, or ignorant. It's not insulting to me; I'm confident in who I am, what I know, and what I don't know. It's sad because there's just no fixing it.

Let's call it what it is - Republican voters, whether it's on this board, or not, are scared. They're scared to admit that they don't know; they're scared to admit that they have been boiled in the pot with the other R voters, and the only way they feel like they can reclaim power is by posturing, and voting for people who can validate them by yelling really loud on TV. There's no actual interest in discussing the issues of our day. There's no demand for accountability from our leaders. It's just easier to believe in the lie. And what's sad is... well, just about everything.

[doclinkin]

I love how people claim Trump is going to start acting in crazy ways when he didn't when he was President and it's actually the Democrats in office that are doing so. No wars under Trump but yet he's "going to start WW3!". "Free press will die" yet the liberal media in cahoots with Big Tech are the ones actually suppressing free speech. "He's going to jail his political opponents just like Hitler" yet that didn't happen under him but IS happening under the current administration. It's all so ironic and completely lost on these people.

I'd happily dialogue on any of this. I appreciated it when Nate used to post in here since he would back up his opinions with sources. We could debate the accuracy of his sources, but too often nowadays it seems people save up their hot takes to drop in a line or two then walk away feeling like they schooled everyone.

There was at least one significant war under Trump. Trump presided over the largest single increase in troops and ordnance sent to Afghanistan, with 4000 additional troops sent in 2017 alone. Trump's increased commitment to the war added to the over $1 Trillion spent in the US involvement in that part of the subcontinent.

Like it or not from a strategic standpoint, Biden withdrew our commitment to this war, under the idea that there was no clear objective nor timetable to reach that objective. Long term questions remain how this suits or weakens the global standing of US power. It does remove American troops from harms way and reallocates those funds elsewhere. Afghanistan remains essentially where it was when the Soviets pulled out: a nation short on resources or modernization, of significance on the global stage primarily for sitting on the crossroads between Russia and the Middle East, Asia and the Middle East.

Similarly Trump pulled US troops our of Syria, there however the power vacuum was immediately filled by Russia. Giving Putin a win. That story can be told in a number of Trump's foreign policy actions: his policies tend to strengthen Russia.

One can argue that Obama's foreign policy can carry the largest blame here. If the US had not provided a weakened and timid response to the Russian annexation of Crimea then Putin would not have felt emboldened to invade Ukraine. The US' policy was a little more subtle, promoting pro Western candidates in Ukraine's elections so we could strengthen them with aid instead of putting our own troops on the line, potentially tempting escalation to that "WW3" you mention. Putin's reaction was to state that he sees Democracy as a weapon of mass destruction, and in response ramped up the troll farms and propaganda wars to interfere in US Elections. And US Media. US Big Tech.

This is where you get the narrative that folks are trying to quell "free speech". There is an understanding that allowing foreign agents to promote false and dangerous narratives was not what the Founders intended under the 1st amendment. Fomenting rebellion against the elected government or casting doubt in the public trust in Democracy itself is dangerous to our republic. Domestically, conspiracy to commit insurrection against our country is treason. Interfering with the lawful actions of government is illegal. Should the legality of people's actions be flexible based on whether or not you agree with their politics?

If people's 'political opponents' commit violence and break laws then they should be prosecuted. If they shout and demonstrate in lawful assembly, they are free to do so. If they trespass and injure police officers, vandalize government buildings and threaten the lives of our elected representatives of government then they should be subject to the same laws as anyone.

That goes for Presidents too. If Trump has broken the law then he deserves to be sentenced. We do not elect kings. Nobody is above the law. (With the possible exception of the Supreme Court it seems).

In the case of Trump. Evidence clearly shows that he kept classified documents for his own purposes. Evidence shows that he encouraged violence against public officials due to his inability to accept evidence that he had lost the election. Evidence is strong that under his direction his representatives and counsel pressured officials in 3 states to overturn the results of the election. The only defense I have seen offered on his behalf by the majority of his supporters is: "I don't care. Other people are bad too. So what if he is bad. I support him no matter what." And a firmly held willingness to deny evidence that doesn't match their beliefs. He's my guy right or wrong.

Hell, we're sports fans, I understand the urge. It feels good to be able to pick a side and support it beyond sense and reason. Winners and losers.

Problem is the only people who are winning in this case are the ultra powerful who find ways of profiting when we are distracted by picking sides and hell, arguing against our own best interests.

Did your life get better when Trump was in office? Mine didn't. His biggest win was a huge tax cut to the richest of the rich. And he OK'ed the bailout plan that doled out cash to citizens during the pandemic. Like universal basic income. Socialism! Though it added to the debt so your kids will be paying it. The kids of people who work at jobs, not the kids of people who inherit their money or own corporations. And now the kids who work at jobs even. Since Republicans are saying hey lets repeal child labor laws and make kids work cheap. Oh and 'we can't afford Social Security' now that rich people are not paying even part of their share. Republicans want to increase the retirement age because people are living longer, so essentially there should be no such thing as retirement. You should work until you die, basically.

I don't know. I think on the basics most people agree. If there's something f@3k4d up somebody should do something about it. 'Somebody' is the Government, usually, because otherwise who's job is it? Yeah people resent taxes being taken out and spent on things that don't directly benefit them. We don't always know what that is though. It's a complicated mess. And people with money and power are much better at finding ways the system works for them instead of the working guy who just wants to earn a damn paycheck doing something that doesn't suck and be valued for the time they put in. If things keep sucking it is probably somebody else's fault, not mine, just tell me who to blame and who to vote for.

Me I choose to blame the people who are running away with all the money.

[popper]

Sorry I lost my temper, but a man can only take so much.

Pancakes - You're a lawyer, aren't you? I spent years working with very powerful lawyers in DC. I had a big corner office overlooking the White House on the short part of Connecticut Avenue. Like you, they were very smart. Unfortunately, I found that a legal education in many instances comes at the expense of common sense. IOW, I couldn't trust them to manage their way out of a paper bag. They had me to do that work and I had them to do what they were good at.

You and I had a discussion some months ago. I stated what I thought was a universally understood concept. Something like, "an open border policy within a welfare state can't work." You argued the point. All good, but that's an example of your "common sense out the window" on the subject (IMO).

You're concerned about climate change. Me too. Have you noticed that China and India are building coal burning plants faster than we and other countries in the west are closing them down? In today's WSJ there's an article about Indonesia's push for nickel processing plants to take advantage of their nickel resources. New Chinese-built smelters dot the archipelago. As you know, nickel is used extensively in EV batteries. Climate Rights International said "a single nickel-focused industrial park on the Maluku islands will burn more coal than Spain or Brazil when it is fully operational." Think about that for minute.

I''ve mentioned several times on this thread over the past 5-10 years that the D party is pursuing the Cloward-Piven strategy. Crickets. No one had an opinion. I hope you and others can see it clearly now with Biden's open border policies.

Cloward–Piven strategy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. It is the strategy of forcing political change leading to societal collapse through orchestrated crises. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, amassing massive unpayable national debt, and other methods such as unfettered immigration thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse by overwhelming the United States

[popper]

Zonk - I know you're an educated person so there's no way you have a reading comprehension problem. For the umpteenth time I'll post again what I've posted here at least four or five other times.

I watched a single Fox News program years ago (Bill O'Reilly show). That's it. Please commit that to memory and quit going on like a drone about Fox News. I don't watch it.

Several months ago you posted where you get your news. WaPo was one source, and I don't remember the other. Not impressive. I posted here what I read (so I won't bother repeating). I've been retired for 17 years so I have a luxury that you probably do not. I can dedicate 4 or 5 hours a day to reading a large variety of sources. Lucky me except the more one learns the more depressing our state of affairs seem.

[pancakes3]

Sorry I lost my temper, but a man can only take so much.

Pancakes - You're a lawyer, aren't you? I spent years working with very powerful lawyers in DC. I had a big corner office overlooking the White House on the short part of Connecticut Avenue. Like you, they were very smart. Unfortunately, I found that a legal education in many instances comes at the expense of common sense. IOW, I couldn't trust them to manage their way out of a paper bag. They had me to do that work and I had them to do what they were good at.

You and I had a discussion some months ago. I stated what I thought was a universally understood concept. Something like, "an open border policy within a welfare state can't work." You argued the point. All good, but that's an example of your "common sense out the window" on the subject (IMO).

You're concerned about climate change. Me too. Have you noticed that China and India are building coal burning plants faster than we and other countries in the west are closing them down? In today's WSJ there's an article about Indonesia's push for nickel processing plants to take advantage of their nickel resources. New Chinese-built smelters dot the archipelago. As you know, nickel is used extensively in EV batteries. Climate Rights International said "a single nickel-focused industrial park on the Maluku islands will burn more coal than Spain or Brazil when it is fully operational." Think about that for minute.

I''ve mentioned several times on this thread over the past 5-10 years that the D party is pursuing the Cloward-Piven strategy. Crickets. No one had an opinion. I hope you and others can see it clearly now with Biden's open border policies.

Cloward–Piven strategy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. It is the strategy of forcing political change leading to societal collapse through orchestrated crises. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, amassing massive unpayable national debt, and other methods such as unfettered immigration thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse by overwhelming the United States

Care to elaborate on the "common sense" between the incompatability between an open border and a welfare state? I have to imagine, much of the dispute is due to (1) it not having anything to do with the current political agenda/discussion; and (2) even in speaking in the abstract, an inability to define what "open border" and "welfare state" even means. I can assure you, we do not live in a welfare state. And this is why it's not "all good." There's no depth of thought, and you cling to your ideation of "common sense" without there being any sort of meaningful debate, especially with respect to practical outcomes. The instant debate over immigration, to the extent there is one, is that there are undocumented workers. The solution is to document them, not to erect barriers, not to kick over water cans, not to demonize them, etc.

With regard to climate change, I don't think you're concerned at all. I think you're concerned about deflection, playing a game of gotcha, and sprinkling in elements of xenophobia. If you're actually concerned about climate change, how are you able to continually support a political party that denies its existence? Do you actually want solutions to climate change?

In your research about Chinese pollution, have you actually done any research into how or why China built more coal plants in 2023? Did you realize that (1) China has also massively outpaced the United States in renewable energy infrastructure; (2) at least paid lip service, which the US has refused to do, to be in adherence to the Paris Accords by 2030, and carbon neutrality by 2060; and (3) are also subject to the whims of political convenience and recently re-opened coal licensing after refusing to permit coal plants for several years due to concerns about "energy security" - the same line that the GOP is pushing, and much more successfully in the United States?

Every country needs to do better re: climate change. I can only vote in the US, I don't know about you. I don't know how other nations' failures would somehow dictate my personal policy preferences in America. Unless you don't actually care about climate change, and just like using convenient scapegoats to ignore the issue, so you can support the anti-climate party based on other grounds.

With regard to Cloward-Piven - what is there to say? It's a relic conspiracy theory from the Tea Party days when proto-MAGA thought leaders were coming up with ways to demonize Obama and universal healthcare. The original study came out in the 70's as a journal article, where 2 sociologists observed that a full throated adherence to the civil rights advancements of the '60s as applied to all Americans, not just white Americans, would require a much more robust social safety net than what was available at the time (in other words, social security, welfare, and other New Deal programs only considered poor whites, and in a post-Civil-Rights-Act world, would require much more governmental resources). It was an observation, not a strategy. It was coined as a strategy by Conservative operatives decades later, trying to spin the narrative that civil rights in general was some sort of trojan horse to poison the status quo and collapse the system. I believe it was David Horowitz who first characterized it as a "strategy" and then picked up by Glenn Beck as a mainstream talking point. The goulish part is the insinuation that the failure is deliberate, that affording American citizens civil rights was part of the ploy to collapse the American welfare system, foment political outcry by the poor people, so as to gain popular support for even MORE social programs. That's an insane characterization. It's also an easy one to pull out because the major rallying cry by conservatives is that "we can't afford it" and that any governmental spending, when extrapolated would "collapse the system."

And what exactly is your beef with "Biden's open border" policy? Because that just reads as hollow, outright racism. 1) there is no open border. 2) even if there was, what has happened that has been so bad? Republicans keep saying that there's an immigration crisis, to the point of legally classifying it as a military invasion. Really? How? Where? Unemployment has gone down, so they're not taking our jobs. What exactly should we be so concerned about? What is the crisis, other than the mere presence of undocumented people? Just nonspecific, often anecdotal cites of crime, disease, and other dehumanizing attributes.

Do you know how many people have suffered under the American immigration system, be it Biden's, Trump's, Obama's, or anyone else? Do you know how many lawful, degree-holding foreigners who are desperate to stay and contribute to society have been forced to leave due to the H1B cap? Do you understand how difficult it is to emigrate to another country? Do you know how many white immigrants were allowed into this country, even TO THIS DAY, completely undocumented, but when it comes to POC, it's an invasion? The Irish are the #1 most populous undocumented population in the DMV. And yet, there are people campaigning on MS13.

And in typing all this out, re: Chinese scapegoating, re: Cloward-piven, re: immigration, it all sort of indicates that you're a bigot. Or at least have bigoted beliefs. Maybe you should think about that for a minute.

[popper]

Sorry I lost my temper, but a man can only take so much.

Pancakes - You're a lawyer, aren't you? I spent years working with very powerful lawyers in DC. I had a big corner office overlooking the White House on the short part of Connecticut Avenue. Like you, they were very smart. Unfortunately, I found that a legal education in many instances comes at the expense of common sense. IOW, I couldn't trust them to manage their way out of a paper bag. They had me to do that work and I had them to do what they were good at.

You and I had a discussion some months ago. I stated what I thought was a universally understood concept. Something like, "an open border policy within a welfare state can't work." You argued the point. All good, but that's an example of your "common sense out the window" on the subject (IMO).

You're concerned about climate change. Me too. Have you noticed that China and India are building coal burning plants faster than we and other countries in the west are closing them down? In today's WSJ there's an article about Indonesia's push for nickel processing plants to take advantage of their nickel resources. New Chinese-built smelters dot the archipelago. As you know, nickel is used extensively in EV batteries. Climate Rights International said "a single nickel-focused industrial park on the Maluku islands will burn more coal than Spain or Brazil when it is fully operational." Think about that for minute.

I''ve mentioned several times on this thread over the past 5-10 years that the D party is pursuing the Cloward-Piven strategy. Crickets. No one had an opinion. I hope you and others can see it clearly now with Biden's open border policies.

Cloward–Piven strategy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. It is the strategy of forcing political change leading to societal collapse through orchestrated crises. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, amassing massive unpayable national debt, and other methods such as unfettered immigration thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse by overwhelming the United States

Care to elaborate on the "common sense" between the incompatability between an open border and a welfare state? I have to imagine, much of the dispute is due to (1) it not having anything to do with the current political agenda/discussion; and (2) even in speaking in the abstract, an inability to define what "open border" and "welfare state" even means. I can assure you, we do not live in a welfare state. And this is why it's not "all good." There's no depth of thought, and you cling to your ideation of "common sense" without there being any sort of meaningful debate, especially with respect to practical outcomes. The instant debate over immigration, to the extent there is one, is that there are undocumented workers. The solution is to document them, not to erect barriers, not to kick over water cans, not to demonize them, etc.

With regard to climate change, I don't think you're concerned at all. I think you're concerned about deflection, playing a game of gotcha, and sprinkling in elements of xenophobia. If you're actually concerned about climate change, how are you able to continually support a political party that denies its existence? Do you actually want solutions to climate change?

In your research about Chinese pollution, have you actually done any research into how or why China built more coal plants in 2023? Did you realize that (1) China has also massively outpaced the United States in renewable energy infrastructure; (2) at least paid lip service, which the US has refused to do, to be in adherence to the Paris Accords by 2030, and carbon neutrality by 2060; and (3) are also subject to the whims of political convenience and recently re-opened coal licensing after refusing to permit coal plants for several years due to concerns about "energy security" - the same line that the GOP is pushing, and much more successfully in the United States?

Every country needs to do better re: climate change. I can only vote in the US, I don't know about you. I don't know how other nations' failures would somehow dictate my personal policy preferences in America. Unless you don't actually care about climate change, and just like using convenient scapegoats to ignore the issue, so you can support the anti-climate party based on other grounds.

With regard to Cloward-Piven - what is there to say? It's a relic conspiracy theory from the Tea Party days when proto-MAGA thought leaders were coming up with ways to demonize Obama and universal healthcare. The original study came out in the 70's as a journal article, where 2 sociologists observed that a full throated adherence to the civil rights advancements of the '60s as applied to all Americans, not just white Americans, would require a much more robust social safety net than what was available at the time (in other words, social security, welfare, and other New Deal programs only considered poor whites, and in a post-Civil-Rights-Act world, would require much more governmental resources). It was an observation, not a strategy. It was coined as a strategy by Conservative operatives decades later, trying to spin the narrative that civil rights in general was some sort of trojan horse to poison the status quo and collapse the system. I believe it was David Horowitz who first characterized it as a "strategy" and then picked up by Glenn Beck as a mainstream talking point. The goulish part is the insinuation that the failure is deliberate, that affording American citizens civil rights was part of the ploy to collapse the American welfare system, foment political outcry by the poor people, so as to gain popular support for even MORE social programs. That's an insane characterization. It's also an easy one to pull out because the major rallying cry by conservatives is that "we can't afford it" and that any governmental spending, when extrapolated would "collapse the system."

And what exactly is your beef with "Biden's open border" policy? Because that just reads as hollow, outright racism. 1) there is no open border. 2) even if there was, what has happened that has been so bad? Republicans keep saying that there's an immigration crisis, to the point of legally classifying it as a military invasion. Really? How? Where? Unemployment has gone down, so they're not taking our jobs. What exactly should we be so concerned about? What is the crisis, other than the mere presence of undocumented people? Just nonspecific, often anecdotal cites of crime, disease, and other dehumanizing attributes.

Do you know how many people have suffered under the American immigration system, be it Biden's, Trump's, Obama's, or anyone else? Do you know how many lawful, degree-holding foreigners who are desperate to stay and contribute to society have been forced to leave due to the H1B cap? Do you understand how difficult it is to emigrate to another country? Do you know how many white immigrants were allowed into this country, even TO THIS DAY, completely undocumented, but when it comes to POC, it's an invasion? The Irish are the #1 most populous undocumented population in the DMV. And yet, there are people campaigning on MS13.

And in typing all this out, re: Chinese scapegoating, re: Cloward-piven, re: immigration, it all sort of indicates that you're a bigot. Or at least have bigoted beliefs. Maybe you should think about that for a minute.

You're obviously a depressed and angry person pancakes. I was in that same place about 10 years ago. I hope you find a way out of it. It took me a year or two. If I can help, or tell how I did it, I'd be happy to. There's no need for me to elaborate on why an open border coupled with a welfare state doesn't work. It's just common sense. If one has a financial incentive, without fear of repercussions, to violate our immigration laws, then of course that is the course they would take (given the means to pay off the cartels). Sadly, it's a different calculation for women, many of whom are raped during the journey. Somehow, an education in law strips students of the natural ability to exercise common sense. Maybe there should be a course in that before graduation in order to reseed in law students that essential human instinct.

Edit - I meant that comment about depression and my offer of help sincerely pancakes. I don't wish that misery on anyone and I know how fortunate I was to get through it. If not me, reach out to someone else. You have a bright future ahead of you once you overcome whatever it is that's pulling you down.

[dckingsfan]

Hmmmm....

Cloward–Piven strategy:

The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. It is the strategy of forcing political change leading to societal collapse through orchestrated crises. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, amassing massive unpayable national debt, and other methods such as unfettered immigration thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse by overwhelming the United States.

I wonder which party was responsible for the forever wars and tax cuts that have led to most of our unsustainable debt? Which party in the house said they would come up with a plan to cut the debt and then crickets? Which party isn't agreeing to the immigration bill coming out of the Senate?

BTW, there is a name for this - Accusation in a mirror:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror

You might want to see what Donald Trump is doing. Just saying...