The Gradey Dick Thread Part 2

[ForeverTFC]

Even if Dick reaches his ceiling (whatever that would be), he's still would just be a bench player imo

He's not an answer as a starter with BBQ. IQ and Barrett are below average/average defenders. No matter how well Dick can shot, his not going to overcome his size issue unless he has a motor like Caruso to outplay his physical size limitations

Let's not put ceilings on 20 year olds 4 months into their careers...

Also, I wouldn't make roster decisions based on RJ, he can be moved if need be.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

+1. RJ should not be driving any roster decisions.

[EastonEddy]

Even if Dick reaches his ceiling (whatever that would be), he's still would just be a bench player imo

He's not an answer as a starter with BBQ. IQ and Barrett are below average/average defenders. No matter how well Dick can shot, his not going to overcome his size issue unless he has a motor like Caruso to outplay his physical size limitations

Let's not put ceilings on 20 year olds 4 months into their careers...

Kyle Korver, JJ Redick, Duncan Robinson and the list goes on...all white guy shooters with average athleticism and exact same tag people like you have put on them as bad defenders. These guys have made careers out of their ability to shoot and be basketball players. They have also started most their careers and some of these guys have gone to the NBA finals and all-star games...all with the same label you are giving Gradey.

The hate this kid gets man...is really dumb.

No hate from me, just looking at roster construction. Obviously Masai is building around BBQ, how is Dick going to fit with those 3?

I'd go back and look at Korver, Reddick, Robinson, did those teams have above average defenders to hide a great shooter but weak in defense and gets hunted on switches repeatedly?

The problem is you think Gradey is going to be a horrific defender maybe because he is a labelled as a white shooter. Gradey actually is a pretty good athlete but his footwork needs improvement. I actually think he has shown he will have the ability to contain penetration 1v1 these past few games and he is deceptively quick side-to-side. He has good anticipation against OKC he generate 5 TOs via steals and charges. Nice to see someone on this team finally looking to take charges. Decent length as well.

He is getting picked on a bit right now cause he is a rookie who has barely played but I am not going to write him off as a terrible defender yet based on what he is showing.

[hyper316]

Scottie's obviously a plus defender. RJ isn't a bad defender and Quick can stay with most guards.

And yet...the building of this team is just beginning. Yes...Gradey is part of the future and he absolutely can start. I sure hope to see him start after the trade deadline if we are able to get rid of Gary, Bruce and Dennis.

We have the same assessment, Barnes is the only plus defender, RJ & Quick are below average/average defenders. Gradey has good awareness defensively, but no way you can say with a straight face he is am average defender. He might get there one day, but that's 1 plus defender and potentially 3 average defenders not counting the center. We are back at the same issue Barnes taking on POA defender role and over exerting himself in covering holes and not having energy on offense where we need a number option 1 to score.

All I need him to be is average at best. That's not impossible for him. That and his shooting and his overall court awareness and IQ is enough to make him a solid starter if not a really good 6 man.

This is basketball...not defence ball

Honestly...you are too fixated on Gradey being a white guy with a reputation as being "just a shooter".

Go and read my post and don't put words in my mouth. I mentioned Caruso in the same post, colour had nothing with the assessment

There's a reason why people making trade proposals for raptors to get a 3&D player for the past 2 weeks (i.e. Fred Jones). Tell me does Gradey fit the bill?

[hyper316]

Let's not put ceilings on 20 year olds 4 months into their careers...

Kyle Korver, JJ Redick, Duncan Robinson and the list goes on...all white guy shooters with average athleticism and exact same tag people like you have put on them as bad defenders. These guys have made careers out of their ability to shoot and be basketball players. They have also started most their careers and some of these guys have gone to the NBA finals and all-star games...all with the same label you are giving Gradey.

The hate this kid gets man...is really dumb.

No hate from me, just looking at roster construction. Obviously Masai is building around BBQ, how is Dick going to fit with those 3?

I'd go back and look at Korver, Reddick, Robinson, did those teams have above average defenders to hide a great shooter but weak in defense and gets hunted on switches repeatedly?

The problem is you think Gradey is going to be a horrific defender maybe because he is a labelled as a white shooter. Gradey actually is a pretty good athlete but his footwork needs improvement. I actually think he has shown he will have the ability to contain penetration 1v1 these past few games and he is deceptively quick side-to-side. He has good anticipation against OKC he generate 5 TOs via steals and charges. Nice to see someone on this team finally looking to take charges. Decent length as well.

He is getting picked on a bit right now cause he is a rookie who has barely played but I am not going to write him off as a terrible defender yet based on what he is showing.

What's with people tonight assuming racist comments. Read my post, I used Caruso as example as a good defender

[mtcan]

How you feel about a starting lineup of :

IQ, Dick, RJ, Barnes, Poeltl for the foreseeable future and only relying on organic growth? Is that a playoff team?

My point is as good as Gradey can get, he's not the answer. I think he'd be a fine bench player tho

Dude...cool it.

The rebuild has only started. You're acting like this is all we have and this is as good as we can ever get.

Gradey may start but if we end up with even higher lottery picks in the next year or so and with better prospects...obviously you might prioritize those guys and in that case maybe Gradey doesn't start but who cares at that point?

I think people need to temper their expectation, dick as a sharpshooter off the bench is a good piece. Expecting him to be the starter is a jump too big right now

Dick ended up with the most FGA this game. He did shoot with good efficiency shot well in corners and drives

...and you know... what if people spoke of Scottie like he would never learn how to shoot and compared him to MCW, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons (and you know what...people around here DID do that prior to this season!!!...wow bad premature takes on RealGM...lol...it's not for Gradey!!)???

...and of course...I guess most of us also got Pascal's future prospects wrong those first 2 seasons. We kept thinking he'd be a great Amir Johnson/Bo Outlaw clone...LOL.

This is how bad takes don't age well. We don't predict a player's future based on 4 months of his rookie season.

[Psubs]

I couple summers of working out gaining 15 lbs of pure muscle should help.

[mtcan]

We have the same assessment, Barnes is the only plus defender, RJ & Quick are below average/average defenders. Gradey has good awareness defensively, but no way you can say with a straight face he is am average defender. He might get there one day, but that's 1 plus defender and potentially 3 average defenders not counting the center. We are back at the same issue Barnes taking on POA defender role and over exerting himself in covering holes and not having energy on offense where we need a number option 1 to score.

All I need him to be is average at best. That's not impossible for him. That and his shooting and his overall court awareness and IQ is enough to make him a solid starter if not a really good 6 man.

This is basketball...not defence ball

Honestly...you are too fixated on Gradey being a white guy with a reputation as being "just a shooter".

Go and read my post and don't put words in my mouth. I mentioned Caruso in the same post, colour had nothing with the assessment

There's a reason why people making trade proposals for raptors to get a 3&D player for the past 2 weeks (i.e. Fred Jones). Tell me does Gradey fit the bill?

No...your words and meaning are obvious. You are writing off a guy's future because you have him pegged as just a sharpshooter.

I don't give a **** why people are making trade proposals for the Raptors to get a 3&D player...it's **** RealGM...where people make bad takes all the time. Like I said...these same people last season were calling Scottie MCW and Ben Simmons.

People just a month ago were writing Gradey off because of his shooting...well now he's shooting and making. People make stupid
knee-jerk reactions all the time around here. Don't be one of them.

[hyper316]

Dude...cool it.

The rebuild has only started. You're acting like this is all we have and this is as good as we can ever get.

Gradey may start but if we end up with even higher lottery picks in the next year or so and with better prospects...obviously you might prioritize those guys and in that case maybe Gradey doesn't start but who cares at that point?

I think people need to temper their expectation, dick as a sharpshooter off the bench is a good piece. Expecting him to be the starter is a jump too big right now

Dick ended up with the most FGA this game. He did shoot with good efficiency shot well in corners and drives

...and you know... what if people spoke of Scottie like he would never learn how to shoot and compared him to MCW, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons (and you know what...people around here DID do that prior to this season!!!...wow bad premature takes on RealGM...lol...it's not for Gradey!!)???

...and of course...I guess most of us also got Pascal's future prospects wrong those first 2 seasons. We kept thinking he'd be a great Amir Johnson/Bo Outlaw clone...LOL.

This is how bad takes don't age well. We don't predict a player's future based on 4 months of his rookie season.

You just compared Barnes to shooting, to Gradey to defense. Two completely different skills and progression

Shooting is a skill that many players have improved on over careers.

Defense is hard to grasp. I'm not saying it's not possible. But since this is your argument, the burden of proof is on you. Find me examples of players with defense much improved

[mtcan]

I think people need to temper their expectation, dick as a sharpshooter off the bench is a good piece. Expecting him to be the starter is a jump too big right now

Dick ended up with the most FGA this game. He did shoot with good efficiency shot well in corners and drives

...and you know... what if people spoke of Scottie like he would never learn how to shoot and compared him to MCW, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons (and you know what...people around here DID do that prior to this season!!!...wow bad premature takes on RealGM...lol...it's not for Gradey!!)???

...and of course...I guess most of us also got Pascal's future prospects wrong those first 2 seasons. We kept thinking he'd be a great Amir Johnson/Bo Outlaw clone...LOL.

This is how bad takes don't age well. We don't predict a player's future based on 4 months of his rookie season.

You just compared Barnes to shooting, to Gradey to defense. Two completely different skills and progression

Shooting is a skill that many players have improved on over careers.

Defense is hard to grasp. I'm not saying it's not possible. But since this is your argument, the burden of proof is on you. Find me examples of players with defense much improved

Burden of proof is on Gradey...not me.

I know of guys who have been criticized as being bad defenders but when they are able to do useful things that keep them on the floor, suddenly no one talks about the defence anymore. Maybe Gradey is one of these guys. Or maybe he becomes an average defender over time and is known for solid 2-way play.

[hyper316]

All I need him to be is average at best. That's not impossible for him. That and his shooting and his overall court awareness and IQ is enough to make him a solid starter if not a really good 6 man.

This is basketball...not defence ball

Honestly...you are too fixated on Gradey being a white guy with a reputation as being "just a shooter".

Go and read my post and don't put words in my mouth. I mentioned Caruso in the same post, colour had nothing with the assessment

There's a reason why people making trade proposals for raptors to get a 3&D player for the past 2 weeks (i.e. Fred Jones). Tell me does Gradey fit the bill?

No...your words and meaning are obvious. You are writing off a guy's future because you have him pegged as just a sharpshooter.

I don't give a **** why people are making trade proposals for the Raptors to get a 3&D player...it's **** RealGM...where people make bad takes all the time.

Dude, you're the one need to cool it.

I read more than just realgm, twitter YouTube, all mentioned Fred Jones a lot to the point NO came.out saying no interest to trade him

[mtcan]

Go and read my post and don't put words in my mouth. I mentioned Caruso in the same post, colour had nothing with the assessment

There's a reason why people making trade proposals for raptors to get a 3&D player for the past 2 weeks (i.e. Fred Jones). Tell me does Gradey fit the bill?

No...your words and meaning are obvious. You are writing off a guy's future because you have him pegged as just a sharpshooter.

I don't give a **** why people are making trade proposals for the Raptors to get a 3&D player...it's **** RealGM...where people make bad takes all the time.

Dude, you're the one need to cool it.

I read more than just realgm, twitter YouTube, all mentioned Fred Jones a lot to the point NO came.out saying no interest to trade him

Nah...I'm already very cool.

Of course...RealGM and Twitter...the bastions of rational commentary. What are they saying about Gradey on 4Chan though?

[JB7]

I think people need to temper their expectation, dick as a sharpshooter off the bench is a good piece. Expecting him to be the starter is a jump too big right now

Dick ended up with the most FGA this game. He did shoot with good efficiency shot well in corners and drives

...and you know... what if people spoke of Scottie like he would never learn how to shoot and compared him to MCW, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons (and you know what...people around here DID do that prior to this season!!!...wow bad premature takes on RealGM...lol...it's not for Gradey!!)???

...and of course...I guess most of us also got Pascal's future prospects wrong those first 2 seasons. We kept thinking he'd be a great Amir Johnson/Bo Outlaw clone...LOL.

This is how bad takes don't age well. We don't predict a player's future based on 4 months of his rookie season.

You just compared Barnes to shooting, to Gradey to defense. Two completely different skills and progression

Shooting is a skill that many players have improved on over careers.

Defense is hard to grasp. I'm not saying it's not possible. But since this is your argument, the burden of proof is on you. Find me examples of players with defense much improved

That would be every player who has played in the NBA. Other than players coming over from Europe, who are rookies in their mid to late 20's, what player is better defensively when they came into the league, then 3-5 years into the careers?

[hyper316]

No...your words and meaning are obvious. You are writing off a guy's future because you have him pegged as just a sharpshooter.

I don't give a **** why people are making trade proposals for the Raptors to get a 3&D player...it's **** RealGM...where people make bad takes all the time.

Dude, you're the one need to cool it.

I read more than just realgm, twitter YouTube, all mentioned Fred Jones a lot to the point NO came.out saying no interest to trade him

Nah...I'm already very cool.

All good then, not sure why the expletives

After tonight's game, my mindset of thinking we are a 3&D player away from a starting line up to build from kinda went out of the window. A Fred Jones isn't going to save this team.

We need a bonafide star on both ends. I said in GT we need either a prime Kawhi or SGA. That's just how far this team is away from any meaningful sniff at playoff contender barring MIP level of organic improvement in any one of BBQ

[mtcan]

Dude, you're the one need to cool it.

I read more than just realgm, twitter YouTube, all mentioned Fred Jones a lot to the point NO came.out saying no interest to trade him

Nah...I'm already very cool.

All good then, not sure why the expletives

After tonight's game, my mindset of thinking we are a 3&D player away from a starting line up to build from kinda went out of the window. A Fred Jones isn't going to save this team.

We need a bonafide star on both ends. I said in GT we need either a prime Kawhi or SGA. That's just how far this team is away from any meaningful sniff at playoff contender barring MIP level of organic improvement in any one of BBQ

The tank is on.

Lottery gods need to show favour on us at least once in these next 2 drafts.

I have a feeling that Gradey probably isn't going to be the best prospect to come out of this latest string of lottery appearances so this likely a moot point in the end.

Just be happy that Gradey isn't the worst 13th pick ever. That honour belongs to Kira Lewis Jr.

[Psubs]

...and you know... what if people spoke of Scottie like he would never learn how to shoot and compared him to MCW, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons (and you know what...people around here DID do that prior to this season!!!...wow bad premature takes on RealGM...lol...it's not for Gradey!!)???

...and of course...I guess most of us also got Pascal's future prospects wrong those first 2 seasons. We kept thinking he'd be a great Amir Johnson/Bo Outlaw clone...LOL.

This is how bad takes don't age well. We don't predict a player's future based on 4 months of his rookie season.

You just compared Barnes to shooting, to Gradey to defense. Two completely different skills and progression

Shooting is a skill that many players have improved on over careers.

Defense is hard to grasp. I'm not saying it's not possible. But since this is your argument, the burden of proof is on you. Find me examples of players with defense much improved

That would be every player who has played in the NBA. Other than players coming over from Europe, who are rookies in their mid to late 20's, what player is better defensively when they came into the league, then 3-5 years into the careers?

Klay Thompson
Pascal Siakam

[JB7]

You just compared Barnes to shooting, to Gradey to defense. Two completely different skills and progression

Shooting is a skill that many players have improved on over careers.

Defense is hard to grasp. I'm not saying it's not possible. But since this is your argument, the burden of proof is on you. Find me examples of players with defense much improved

That would be every player who has played in the NBA. Other than players coming over from Europe, who are rookies in their mid to late 20's, what player is better defensively when they came into the league, then 3-5 years into the careers?

Klay Thompson
Pascal Siakam

Are you saying those two were better defenders as rookies than 3-5 years into their careers?

[hyper316]

...and you know... what if people spoke of Scottie like he would never learn how to shoot and compared him to MCW, Draymond Green and Ben Simmons (and you know what...people around here DID do that prior to this season!!!...wow bad premature takes on RealGM...lol...it's not for Gradey!!)???

...and of course...I guess most of us also got Pascal's future prospects wrong those first 2 seasons. We kept thinking he'd be a great Amir Johnson/Bo Outlaw clone...LOL.

This is how bad takes don't age well. We don't predict a player's future based on 4 months of his rookie season.

You just compared Barnes to shooting, to Gradey to defense. Two completely different skills and progression

Shooting is a skill that many players have improved on over careers.

Defense is hard to grasp. I'm not saying it's not possible. But since this is your argument, the burden of proof is on you. Find me examples of players with defense much improved

That would be every player who has played in the NBA. Other than players coming over from Europe, who are rookies in their mid to late 20's, what player is better defensively when they came into the league, then 3-5 years into the careers?

Is that based on eye test?

This just made me looking at advance stat to check it myself. Just using the example of Caruso I made in my post. He posted 0.9 and 0.7 DBPM first 2 years and jumped up to 2.4 DBPM 3rd year which is really impressive. This showed a great improvement yes, but Caruso was a positive from year 1. I'm interested to find examples that started negative DBPM and became positive. I'm going to look around and find some examples

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I couple summers of working out gaining 15 lbs of pure muscle should help.

Dick should try jelqing I've heard it's a great method to stimulate growth.

[mtcan]

You just compared Barnes to shooting, to Gradey to defense. Two completely different skills and progression

Shooting is a skill that many players have improved on over careers.

Defense is hard to grasp. I'm not saying it's not possible. But since this is your argument, the burden of proof is on you. Find me examples of players with defense much improved

That would be every player who has played in the NBA. Other than players coming over from Europe, who are rookies in their mid to late 20's, what player is better defensively when they came into the league, then 3-5 years into the careers?

Is that based on eye test?

This just made me looking at advance stat to check it myself. Just using the example of Caruso I made in my post. He posted 0.9 and 0.7 DBPM first 2 years and jumped up to 2.4 DBPM 3rd year which is really impressive. This showed a great improvement yes, but Caruso was a positive from year 1. I'm interested to find examples that started negative DBPM and became positive. I'm going to look around and find some examples

Sample size is too small.

He's only appeared in 28 games and averages just under 14 minutes per game. Some of these appearances are garbage time when the game out of hand already and NO ONE plays defence. Fancy analytics mean nothing when the conditions aren't conducive to drawing any meaningful conclusion.

[hyper316]

That would be every player who has played in the NBA. Other than players coming over from Europe, who are rookies in their mid to late 20's, what player is better defensively when they came into the league, then 3-5 years into the careers?

Klay Thompson
Pascal Siakam

Are you saying those two were better defenders as rookies than 3-5 years into their careers?

Klays DBPM from rookie year

-1.7, -0.2, -0.1, -0.1, -1.6 then tail off in that range

Def improvment

Siakam DBPM
0.7, 1.6, 0.8, 0.5, -0.3,

Back to my initial post, do you see Gradey having a motor like a Caruso, or in your example klay or Siakam to overcome his rookie state and make huge leaps on defense?