Swap Karl Malone with Kevin Garnett

[WestGOAT]

How does their outlook of their respective teams (Utah/LA/Minny/Celtics/Nets) change, do you see some winning more or even losing titles?

1986-2003 Utah
2004 Lakers

1996-2007 Minny
2008-2013 Celtics
2014-2015 Nets

[70sFan]

1994 would be interesting. 1998 is a strong chance for the title, although I'm not sure how much Garnett's scoring decrease would cost Jazz.

I think Malone would have won the title in 2008. 2009 would be also quite close.

I think 1-2 titles for both is far.

[OhayoKD]

Malone should win in 2008. Maybe 2009, KG should win in 1994, 1997, and 1998.

[penbeast0]

I like KG better defensively, but Stockton might have to push his scoring more to make up for the volume dropoff from prime Malone to prime KG (which would probably be good for Utah with his efficiency) and not sure KG would be as good a scorer in Sloan's offense. Playoff dropping is a factor for both. KG isn't going to be as good a post scorer but his greater range might help open lanes for Stockton who drove and finished well. I still think Utah needs to wait for a decent 3rd option (Hornacek) to be competitive for a title; I still don't think Minnesota has got enough even in their best years. The Boston title team would be interesting; there would be defensive slippage but then Malone stayed big minutes and prime numbers longer though with Pierce and Allen (and Rondo) there might not be the shots available. Interesting swap.

[eminence]

I don't think Malone gets any. Doc/Thibs are not strong enough offensive coaches to turn Ray/Pierce/Malone into a great offense, and Malone can't begin to replicate the defense needed.

KG gets a few in Utah, but not sure which years in particular.

[falcolombardi]

Garnett essentially does a lot of the same thinghs for utah offense (passing, shooting, inconsistent inside scoring) but with transcendent defense. Utah becomes a really dangerous team

[SportsGuru08]

KG is an even bigger postseason underperformer than Malone. He had his chance with Cassell and Sprewell in 2004 and blew it. He was terrible in the NBA Finals in 2008; the Celtics won it in spite of him.

KG basically needed super stacked rosters just to get out of the first round. In 1988, Malone & Stockton -with basically no bench production- pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink. But for Cooper's heroics in Game 5, they might have won the series outright

[OhayoKD]

KG is an even bigger postseason underperformer than Malone. He had his chance with Cassell and Sprewell in 2004 and blew it. He was terrible in the NBA Finals in 2008; the Celtics won it in spite of him.

KG basically needed super stacked rosters just to get out of the first round. In 1988, Malone & Stockton -with basically no bench production- pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink. But for Cooper's heroics in Game 5, they might have won the series outright

Cassell was injured against the Lakers and even with Cassell that team was hardly "stacked". The first time KG had a stacked roster was 2008...and he won immediately. Then he got hurt.

[SportsGuru08]

KG is an even bigger postseason underperformer than Malone. He had his chance with Cassell and Sprewell in 2004 and blew it. He was terrible in the NBA Finals in 2008; the Celtics won it in spite of him.

KG basically needed super stacked rosters just to get out of the first round. In 1988, Malone & Stockton -with basically no bench production- pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink. But for Cooper's heroics in Game 5, they might have won the series outright

Cassell was injured against the Lakers and even with Cassell that team was hardly "stacked". The first time KG had a stacked roster was 2008...and he won immediately. Then he got hurt.

More like he stumbled into a championship since he played like garbage in that Finals.

Again, Malone & Stockton pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink almost entirely by themselves. KG's Celtics were pushed to 7 games by a team that went 37-45.

[eminence]

I'd be hard pressed to feel better about almost winning than almost losing.

[dygaction]

Malone would likely win in 08 and 09, KG would likely not win anything.

[Matt15]

Malone wins 2-3 in ‘08, ‘09 and possibly ‘12. KG wins zero he isn’t a good enough player on offense to beat MJ’s Bulls.

[HeartBreakKid]

KG is an even bigger postseason underperformer than Malone. He had his chance with Cassell and Sprewell in 2004 and blew it. He was terrible in the NBA Finals in 2008; the Celtics won it in spite of him.

KG basically needed super stacked rosters just to get out of the first round. In 1988, Malone & Stockton -with basically no bench production- pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink. But for Cooper's heroics in Game 5, they might have won the series outright

Cassell was injured against the Lakers and even with Cassell that team was hardly "stacked". The first time KG had a stacked roster was 2008...and he won immediately. Then he got hurt.

More like he stumbled into a championship since he played like garbage in that Finals.

Again, Malone & Stockton pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink almost entirely by themselves. KG's Celtics were pushed to 7 games by a team that went 37-45.

It's a good thing the Jazz were never, ever, pushed by a subpar team before.

The Celtics beat the Lakers by one of the biggest margins of victory in years at that point. So I don't think they "stumbled" onto anything.

[SportsGuru08]

Cassell was injured against the Lakers and even with Cassell that team was hardly "stacked". The first time KG had a stacked roster was 2008...and he won immediately. Then he got hurt.

More like he stumbled into a championship since he played like garbage in that Finals.

Again, Malone & Stockton pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink almost entirely by themselves. KG's Celtics were pushed to 7 games by a team that went 37-45.

It's a good thing the Jazz were never, ever, pushed by a subpar team before.

The Celtics beat the Lakers by one of the biggest margins of victory in years at that point. So I don't think they "stumbled" onto anything.

By a team as mediocre as the '08 Hawks? Nope.

[Jaivl]

More like he stumbled into a championship since he played like garbage in that Finals.

Again, Malone & Stockton pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink almost entirely by themselves. KG's Celtics were pushed to 7 games by a team that went 37-45.

It's a good thing the Jazz were never, ever, pushed by a subpar team before.

The Celtics beat the Lakers by one of the biggest margins of victory in years at that point. So I don't think they "stumbled" onto anything.

By a team as mediocre as the '08 Hawks? Nope.

I'd take going 7 vs a negative SRS team while crushing every home game from minute 1 over being swept by a negative SRS Golden State team. But that's me.

I see their performance against the negative SRS Cavs (although probably underrated by SRS, they were 31-20 post-december and 0-7 without LeBron) as a much more damning indictment. They clapped Atlanta.

Not sure how much of that is on Garnett, though.

[AEnigma]

Reading some of the responses in this thread, tough to tell this is the PC Board and not the General Board.


The Jazz would go to the Finals in 1992, although not sure whether they have the juice to win. Maybe you see a repeat of the Knicks series where it goes seven games but the deciding game is not close.

1994, I see the angle that peak Garnett is a substantial enough improvement over 1994 Malone to totally swing the series, but I would not take it as any sort of given. That team was not too close to beating the Rockets and narrowly escaped a middling Nuggets team. Maybe giving them homecourt would be a sufficient swing? I would buy peak Garnett providing five more wins than Malone that year.

1995, mm, well they probably seize the top seed (just two wins off the Spurs with again a notably worse lead player). So conference finals rematch against Hakeem’s Rockets, now with Drexler… again, maybe. Decent matchup with the Magic should Stockton survive Kenny Smith.

1996, Finals loss.

1997/98 is likely at least one Finals win. In 1997, Garnett could be as offensively inept as Malone was while swinging a game or two with his defence. Malone did have some nicer games in 1998, but he was also inconsistent, and again nowhere near the defensive presence. Could see a lot of similarities in how those Finals with Kobe played out.

2004 is a little bit interesting but even if we give Garnett health for the Finals, I am not sure that is sufficient. And at that point in his career, Garnett was not reliably healthy.

Malone has the same two shots Garnett did plus 2009. 2000 Malone is reasonably on par with 2010 Garnett for me, but that team was built around Garnett’s defence. 1998 Malone on the 2008 Celtics presents a similar issue, but that team would have such a collective talent advantage that it might not matter. Sneakily, the conference semifinals feel like the place where Garnett’s absence would be most felt. 1999 Malone on the 2009 Celtics… heh, there is a funny idea where the Celtics lose because they would have been good enough to take out the Magic before they went on their hot streak. But otherwise I still see them as merely on par with the full strength 2009 Lakers.

So I would go roughly the same ring total for Malone in Garnett’s place, and at least one additional ring for Garnett in Malone’s place by virtue of being a more serious conference dynasty.

[HeartBreakKid]

More like he stumbled into a championship since he played like garbage in that Finals.

Again, Malone & Stockton pushed the Showtime Lakers to the brink almost entirely by themselves. KG's Celtics were pushed to 7 games by a team that went 37-45.

It's a good thing the Jazz were never, ever, pushed by a subpar team before.

The Celtics beat the Lakers by one of the biggest margins of victory in years at that point. So I don't think they "stumbled" onto anything.

By a team as mediocre as the '08 Hawks? Nope.

They had been swept and/or upset in the first round several times, including against bad teams.

They were also taken to 7 games by the Denver Nuggets.

The Hawks were not even a bad team they were just young. They were better at the end of the season and would perennially make the 2nd round for years after. Yeah...the Jazz has struggled with mediocre teams before, so I'm not sure how that means that 2008 is dumb luck.

[AEnigma]

To pile on, the Jazz were down 2-1 to the Rockets in 1998 and trailing by ten in Game 4 (of a best of five series) when Barkley got injured and the Rockets lost any semblance of offensive production. But oh, the Celtics unjustifiably went to seven games twice (once against Lebron). How awful.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

The Jazz would go to the Finals in 1992, although not sure whether they have the juice to win. Maybe you see a repeat of the Knicks series where it goes seven games but the deciding game is not close.

1994, I see the angle that peak Garnett is a substantial enough improvement over 1994 Malone to totally swing the series, but I would not take it as any sort of given. That team was not too close to beating the Rockets and narrowly escaped a middling Nuggets team. Maybe giving them homecourt would be a sufficient swing? I would buy peak Garnett providing five more wins than Malone that year.

1995, mm, well they probably seize the top seed (just two wins off the Spurs with again a notably worse lead player). So conference finals rematch against Hakeem’s Rockets, now with Drexler… again, maybe. Decent matchup with the Magic should Stockton survive Kenny Smith.

Strongly disagree with all of these 3. Especially 1992. Karl Malone had a monster individual series. No version of KG in the playoffs had a series that offensively equalled Malone vs Utah. John Stockton absolutely got bludgeoned h2h by Terry Porter which was the biggest factor in Utah losing that series. How does KG change that from happening?

95? Vs Houston....not maybe at all imho. Malone had a 30/13 series vs Houston and a great elimination game at home in defeat.

Shaq and Robinson both of whom that season were better than any version of KG with great defensive PFs alongside them couldn't slow Olajuwon or stop Houston from winning and nor would've KG in Malones shoes.

[theonlyclutch]

Malone should win in 2008. Maybe 2009, KG should win in 1994, 1997, and 1998.

Who on that team is going to make 23 year old LeBron James' life difficult at the rim? That was primarily KG's job and given Lebrons performance against them in '08 and '10 he did a decent showing there. Hard elbows aren't gonna cut it against a 260-pound freight train and in 2008 doing such things is tempting technicals/flagrants anyway.