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2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

Who will get the 7/8 seeds?

Pelicans/Lakers
2
13%
Pelicans/Warriors
2
13%
Pelicans/Kings
0
No votes
Lakers/Pelicans
4
25%
Lakers/Warriors
5
31%
Lakers/Kings
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#161 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:29 am

garrick wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:They were going to be over the second apron with virtually any path this summer outside of simply declining Paul's option. And in that case it's basically this roster with Shamet instead of Beal.

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

Also say the suns hadn't traded for KD, well Bridges and Cam combined make as much as KD so again same spot money/apron wise.

Really anything other than the suns going rebuild and shipping guys out they were going to be up against it money wise, that's been the reality since the summer of 22. The question at that point was 'is a core of Booker, Bridges, Cam and Ayton good enough to build around and compete? Because there just wasn't going to be flexibility to add anything but draft picks (most of which don't actually work out) and small salaries. I personally didn't think that was a championship core so that's why I was cool with a drastic move like the KD deal.

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Yeah, I can’t understand why people keep ignoring the fact that CP3+Shamet make as much as Beal and they are MUCH worse as a basketball players. That trade was an steal because Beal is just 30 years old.


CP3 and Shamet were both expiring contracts so I don't think it's as big of a steal as many think it is.

Beal is good now but the real question is how does he hold up the next 4 years as he ages and his contract gets more and more expensive? I think the last year of his deal we are on the hook for 56 million!

This trade can't really be judged just yet, we will need to look back on this in a couple years to see if his massive salary and the inability to get under the 2nd apron was worth it or not.
Expiring contracts that had they just let expire they would have only had the MLE to replace the players with this summer.

Beals contract is big and we'll see how it ages but it does run in his early 30s so thats positive and by the end of it guys on a max will be making $70 mil a yr and the MLE will be nearly $20 mil.

If they wanted to keep the salary slot they needed to trade CP. I'll take Beal over Poole any day. The real question is should they have gone with Harden instead because I do think that was an option. I guess time will tell on that one.

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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#162 » by Saberestar » Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:54 am

BobbieL wrote:Gambo has spoken
Torrey Craig
Saddiq Bey
Otto Porter
and O'Neale

who we getting?

Read on Twitter

He said that we are interested in those four particular players?
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#163 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:55 am

Slim Charless wrote:
Golanator wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
I would rather have a broken down PJ tucker than Miles Bridges at this point.

Maybe if he gets through all his court stuff - as I think he has one more at the end of this month, thats one thing. But with that still hanging over - just make a small trade with Little and another contract (Bol) - sign a buyout and go with it


Otto Porter could probably be had for free too (slot him into the TPE). And while it's unlikely he stays healthy, Otto Porter could in theory be exactly what this team needs. A lengthy, switchable wing who can shoot.

Then we can trade a couple 2nds for a backup big (Drummond?) and be set.


I've long been a fan of the player Grant Williams was on Boston. Wasn't as useful in Dallas, but maybe we can buy low on him or even get a small valued pick to take him off their hands?

If you remember those Celtic teams, Grant was always the toughest guy on the court for that team and plays defense with the kind of effort we always talk about we need...


Did someone say get a pick back?!?!?!..... :D
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Ya gotta know that for me,the suggestion of actually getting a draft pick back in any deal is like having someone stand in front of a mirror and say "bloody Mary" three times. You're summoning the GOK in mentioning anything draft related! :tooth
But all joking aside, perhaps G Williams could play that much needed crowder role or a low scalw but more stable D Green type of role for us if acquired somehow? That, and I'd just hate to see the Mavs get Portis in a trade with Milwaukee. :-?
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#164 » by tester551 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:05 am

BobbieL wrote:Gambo has spoken
Torrey Craig
Saddiq Bey
Otto Porter
and O'Neale

who we getting?

Read on Twitter

Would prefer Jevon Carter for Little
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#165 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:15 am

tester551 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:Gambo has spoken
Torrey Craig
Saddiq Bey
Otto Porter
and O'Neale

who we getting?

Read on Twitter

Would prefer Jevon Carter for Little
PG size with no pg skill and is shooting 33.7% from 3.

Hard pass
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#166 » by Slim Charless » Wed Feb 7, 2024 6:55 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
tester551 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:Gambo has spoken
Torrey Craig
Saddiq Bey
Otto Porter
and O'Neale

who we getting?

Read on Twitter

Would prefer Jevon Carter for Little
PG size with no pg skill and is shooting 33.7% from 3.

Hard pass


Fantastic perimeter defense though. Fantastic.

I truly think that if the Bucks had just somehow kept him, they'd be the top east seed and the title favorite. He fixes everything they need. Would be a big help for us as well.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#167 » by Saberestar » Wed Feb 7, 2024 7:23 am

garrick wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:They were going to be over the second apron with virtually any path this summer outside of simply declining Paul's option. And in that case it's basically this roster with Shamet instead of Beal.

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.

Also say the suns hadn't traded for KD, well Bridges and Cam combined make as much as KD so again same spot money/apron wise.

Really anything other than the suns going rebuild and shipping guys out they were going to be up against it money wise, that's been the reality since the summer of 22. The question at that point was 'is a core of Booker, Bridges, Cam and Ayton good enough to build around and compete? Because there just wasn't going to be flexibility to add anything but draft picks (most of which don't actually work out) and small salaries. I personally didn't think that was a championship core so that's why I was cool with a drastic move like the KD deal.

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Yeah, I can’t understand why people keep ignoring the fact that CP3+Shamet make as much as Beal and they are MUCH worse as a basketball players. That trade was an steal because Beal is just 30 years old.


CP3 and Shamet were both expiring contracts so I don't think it's as big of a steal as many think it is.

Beal is good now but the real question is how does he hold up the next 4 years as he ages and his contract gets more and more expensive? I think the last year of his deal we are on the hook for 56 million!

This trade can't really be judged just yet, we will need to look back on this in a couple years to see if his massive salary and the inability to get under the 2nd apron was worth it or not.

He is under contract for this season and the next 3 years.

He is 30 now so he will be just 33 years old in his last season of his current contract.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#168 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 9:18 am

Slim Charless wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
tester551 wrote:Would prefer Jevon Carter for Little
PG size with no pg skill and is shooting 33.7% from 3.

Hard pass


Fantastic perimeter defense though. Fantastic.

I truly think that if the Bucks had just somehow kept him, they'd be the top east seed and the title favorite. He fixes everything they need. Would be a big help for us as well.

Don't see how he's a big help. He's a great perimeter defender but that's limited because of his size. The minutes he's also able to play is almost limited because he's inconsistent from the 3 and hasn't shown shot creation abilities. He's basically a PG Little. Similar flaws and weaknesses but about 5in shorter
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#169 » by King4Day » Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:46 pm

Never heard of this guy (the player)

This is from the athletic that the tweet is referencing:

Simone Fontecchio
Utah’s starting small forward has emerged as a serious trade target for two contending teams, according to multiple league sources: the Phoenix Suns and the Boston Celtics. Both teams need to strengthen their respective second units, and Fontecchio has an easy salary number for Phoenix and Boston to get to as he is in the final year of a contract that pays him $3.1 million annually.


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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#170 » by sunsbg » Wed Feb 7, 2024 1:53 pm

Fontecchio is interesting. I though he looks good on the few occasions I watched Jazz games. He probably doesn't address any of our defensive concerns, but a rotation player, a better version of Yuta is still useful.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#171 » by Saberestar » Wed Feb 7, 2024 2:23 pm

King4Day wrote:Never heard of this guy (the player)

This is from the athletic that the tweet is referencing:

Simone Fontecchio
Utah’s starting small forward has emerged as a serious trade target for two contending teams, according to multiple league sources: the Phoenix Suns and the Boston Celtics. Both teams need to strengthen their respective second units, and Fontecchio has an easy salary number for Phoenix and Boston to get to as he is in the final year of a contract that pays him $3.1 million annually.


Read on Twitter

This guy is an underrated player, good call if it's true that we are really trying to get him via trade.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#172 » by Slim Charless » Wed Feb 7, 2024 2:49 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:PG size with no pg skill and is shooting 33.7% from 3.

Hard pass


Fantastic perimeter defense though. Fantastic.

I truly think that if the Bucks had just somehow kept him, they'd be the top east seed and the title favorite. He fixes everything they need. Would be a big help for us as well.

Don't see how he's a big help. He's a great perimeter defender but that's limited because of his size. The minutes he's also able to play is almost limited because he's inconsistent from the 3 and hasn't shown shot creation abilities. He's basically a PG Little. Similar flaws and weaknesses but about 5in shorter


.....and that size is good for guards. In other words, he'd be useful against guys like Jamaal Murray, Deaaron Fox, SGA, Ant Edwards, Kyrie, Harden, FVV and that Steph Curry guy. Lol

All the dudes we'll need to go through to go anywhere in the playoffs. He'd be a massive assest. Who cares if he can shoot? We have 3 guys who can go for 40+ on any given night. Plus doing that would allow Greyson, or Okogie to go after wings and KD to only have to cover 4s and 5s. Makes life easier for all.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#173 » by Book1Nation » Wed Feb 7, 2024 2:56 pm

King4Day wrote:Never heard of this guy (the player)

This is from the athletic that the tweet is referencing:

Simone Fontecchio
Utah’s starting small forward has emerged as a serious trade target for two contending teams, according to multiple league sources: the Phoenix Suns and the Boston Celtics. Both teams need to strengthen their respective second units, and Fontecchio has an easy salary number for Phoenix and Boston to get to as he is in the final year of a contract that pays him $3.1 million annually.


Read on Twitter


He's...fine?

I guess at about the level of player we could realistically expect with nothing but 2nd round picks to trade.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#174 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Feb 7, 2024 2:57 pm

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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#175 » by Frank Lee » Wed Feb 7, 2024 3:34 pm

Crap out… crap in

Summed up our trade deadline news
What ? Me Worry ?
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#176 » by Stix » Wed Feb 7, 2024 3:47 pm

At this point, Craig & Drummond would be fine or just stand pat and add a buyout guy.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#177 » by King4Day » Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:13 pm

For anyone that likes to read what our (possible) insiders are hearing

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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#178 » by tester551 » Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:23 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
Fantastic perimeter defense though. Fantastic.

I truly think that if the Bucks had just somehow kept him, they'd be the top east seed and the title favorite. He fixes everything they need. Would be a big help for us as well.

Don't see how he's a big help. He's a great perimeter defender but that's limited because of his size. The minutes he's also able to play is almost limited because he's inconsistent from the 3 and hasn't shown shot creation abilities. He's basically a PG Little. Similar flaws and weaknesses but about 5in shorter


.....and that size is good for guards. In other words, he'd be useful against guys like Jamaal Murray, Deaaron Fox, SGA, Ant Edwards, Kyrie, Harden, FVV and that Steph Curry guy. Lol

All the dudes we'll need to go through to go anywhere in the playoffs. He'd be a massive assest. Who cares if he can shoot? We have 3 guys who can go for 40+ on any given night. Plus doing that would allow Greyson, or Okogie to go after wings and KD to only have to cover 4s and 5s. Makes life easier for all.

Exactly.
Suns need a + point of attack defender.
That's why I suggested the trade.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#179 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:27 pm

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2024/2/6/24061204/phoenix-suns-trade-deadline-primer-what-you-need-to-know

Phoenix Suns Trade Deadline Primer: What you need to know
By John Voita
@DarthVoita Feb 6, 2024, 6:00am


When is the Trade Deadline?
This Thursday, February 8, at 1:00pm Arizona time.

You can track all trades as they occur here.
We will have a live update thread here on Bright Side around any trades that occur.
Phoenix Suns Assets
Player Salaries

Let’s start with what the Suns have and what their contracts look like for the coming years:
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Top heavy in every sense of the word, Phoenix is a team built on the foundation of Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Bradley Beal’s contracts. The three combine for $130.4 million this season, which is 71% of their total salary. To compensate for this they’ve built their roster on veteran minimum players, having 9 players who make $3.2 million or less (not including their three Two-Way contracted players).

Draft Capital
Now let’s look at what Phoenix has in the ‘ole draft pick department. Here is what the Suns have available in that bank:
Image
Lotta red there.

The acquisition of their high-priced salaried players in Durant and Beal cost them on the cap sheet and in the draft piggy bank for years to come. From an assets standpoint, the team doesn’t have much flexibility. Their mid-level contract guys — Jusuf Nurkic, Grayson Allen, and Nassir Little — provide the best flexibility for differing reasons (contract length, potential to assist another team, productivity at their particular position).

Second Apron Rules
Now here is where it gets tricky, especially for a team like Phoenix. When you’re standing around the watercolor at work this week and your fellow co-workers are throwing names like Kyle Lowry out there as a great addition to the team, you’ll have to explain to them that the Suns can’t sign him, even though he’s been bought out. Why? The Suns are one of five NBA teams that have exceeded the “second apron”, which means they’ve spent a boatload of money to construct their roster. They join the Boston Celtics, Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Clippers, and Milwaukee Bucks in spending over $182.5 million on the players that make up this year’s team.

Every team can spend a certain amount without penalty to field a team. Once you start to go over that salary cap, penalties occur. Here are those lines of designation for the 2023-24 season:

Salary Cap: $136 million
Luxury Tax: $165 million
First Apron: $172 million
Second Apron: $182.5 million
Phoenix finds themselves over the Second Apron penalty, which means the following penalties/restrictions occur (h/t Sporting News):

The Suns, per Eric Pincus, are $22.1 million over the luxury tax threshold, which means they are paying a $53.2 million luxury tax penalty
- They cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron (which it would)
- They cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception (Kyle Lowry, for example, made $29.7 million)
- Salary matching in trades must be within 110%, rather than 125% for teams not above the apron
- No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
- Next season the rules for second apron teams become even stricter, as these rules will be in place:

- Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
- Teams cannot include cash in a trade
- Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
- First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
- A team’s first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons
Explain all that to your buddies at the watercolor. Then ask yourselves, why are we hanging around a watercolor? Let’s go to the lunchroom to break all of this madness down.

Positional Needs
Everything listed above is Joe Friday-esque. It’s just the facts. Here is where subjectivity enters the conversation. You ask 10 different people what the Suns need to add to their roster and you’ll get six different answers. We all watch the same team but see different opportunities for the team to improve.

Cases can be made for nearly every position outside of starting two-guard and power forward. We need ball-handling and late-game facilitation! We need interior size when Nurk takes a seat! We need another scorer coming off of the bench!

We can hypothesize all day on what we think the Suns need, but the decision falls internally on James Jones. What does he think? The team has been reportedly interested in acquiring an athletic wing. Is that the need they truly have? Their roster is built on wing depth. Those wings, like Yuta Watanabe and Keita Bates-Diop, simply aren’t performing at the level we expected preseason.

Trade Targets
Rumors have been circulating for quite some time now, although the specifics of what the Suns are shopping have remained hush-hush. Based on the assets Phoenix has, however, we can assume a combination of Nassir Little’s contract, one (or two) or the veteran minimum guys, and perhaps a second-round draft pick or two is what Phoenix is putting on the market in an effort to move the needle.

Sad thing is, those aren’t really needle-moving assets. Still, Phoenix has been linked to the Nets’ Royce O’Neale, Houston’s Jae-Sean Tate, and the Hornets' Miles Bridges. Then there are the newly surfaced rumors around Dorian Finney-Smith, Isaac Okoro, and Andre Drummond. Cases can be made for adding all of the above-listed players. They meet the needs of the roster.

Miles Bridges is the outlier as he brings with him plenty of baggage, which has been the subject of much debate in our message boards over the past two weeks. There isn’t much else out there for Phoenix to pursue at the price point they’ve pigeon-holed themselves into. A point guard would be ideal, but the likes of the Pacers’ T.J. McConnell are unattainable for the Suns. They simply do not have enough appealing assets to make it attractive enough to Indiana. James Jones is up to something, and if history has provided us any roadmap, it’s that we have no idea what that is. I will say this: don’t expect a monstrous acquisition like we experienced last year. If any moves are to be made by Phoenix, it will be on the fringes of the roster. Still, we will be watching and waiting to see if Jones can improve this roster.

Set your Woj and Shams notifications to “on” on your phones. It’s about to get wild.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The Trade Deadline 

Post#180 » by Book1Nation » Wed Feb 7, 2024 4:33 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2024/2/6/24061204/phoenix-suns-trade-deadline-primer-what-you-need-to-know

Draft Capital
Now let’s look at what Phoenix has in the ‘ole draft pick department. Here is what the Suns have available in that bank:
Image
Lotta red there.


We have a 2026 2nd from Detroit, Milwaukee or Orlando (least favorable) and a 2030 1st (least favorable of Washington, Memphis and Phoenix)

Other than that, good post.

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