Make a trade or we call for your job!

[JoshuaPotter]

from next season backcourt will be black-suggs.

If the Magic actually want to level up next season from what they accomplish this season, this isn't gonna get it done.

My worry is this was the spoken plan when Black was drafted. Black intimated on draft night that Weltman gave him assurances he would figure it out in regards to finding playing time (remember Black was publicly hesitant to come here due to our guard logjam). Telling Black the plan is to groom him to start next season, locking in our 2nd team guard in Cole, and then letting the chips fall where they may in the interim is so Weltman's style.

You are correct, though, it's not going to get it done.

My challenge is I like Black more then Fultz right meow at PG. We will still have to meet the salary floor, which means we will have to spend money on someone this offseason.

If it's Fultz I think I am going to hurl.

I guess we could give Isaac a 1/30 million dollar contract as hush money for the medical malpractice lawsuits.....

[drsd]

I can’t believe Simone Fonteccio and Xavier Tillman were both traded and we didn’t make a move on them! Fire WeltHam yesterday!

/s

Fonteccio is redundant to Ingles and only would have made sense as a trade swap. Tillman would get ZERO minutes with the Magic.
Why on earth would Orlando want either over a scorer SG or a PG that can shoot?

[zaymon]

I can’t believe Simone Fonteccio and Xavier Tillman were both traded and we didn’t make a move on them! Fire WeltHam yesterday!

/s

Fonteccio is redundant to Ingles and only would have made sense as a trade swap. Tillman would get ZERO minutes with the Magic.
Why on earth would Orlando want either over a scorer SG or a PG that can shoot?

Its sarcasm.

[The-Stallion70]

Hilariously bad take. This rebuild is crushing expectations thanks to culture and draft choices

Not really

2017- Isaac (Markkannen, Mitchell and Adebayo available)
2018-Bamba (SGA, Wendell, Bridges, MPJ available)
2019-Okeke- (meh selection, Brandon Clarke, Thybulle, Poole, KPJ, available)
2020- Cole (good pick but didn't exactly kill it with Maxey available)
2021- Suggs and Franz (Suggs hasn't lived up to expectations despite being a fan favorite, Franz selection is the single best thing done so far)
2022- Paolo (I think Paolo was more of a clear choice at no.1 than most but yea, so far this is saving his job)
2023 Black, Howard (early returns look pretty bad for a pg who can't hold down the pg spot and a forward shooter who hasn't gotten on the floor for a team that needs shooting)

Not enough there for me to confidently say we're "crushing expectations".

[bigdogdylan5]

What’s the rush? Its unrealistic to expect Paolo and Franz to lead us and be a contender at this point anyway.

Management is quite boring tbh. I’ll be worried with Paolo and Franz are on their second contract and they havent done anything.

I will take boring (I call it patience) over stupidity. I know people haven’t forgot the Ibaka fiasco. That was a move everyone was whining for all year (trade Oladipo) and they end up giving up 2 future all nba team recipients. I would be happy if they made a trade but it needs to be the right one. Don’t force something.

[bigdogdylan5]

30% of you are way all up in your feelings. Not since Penny and Shaq have we had two young players on all nba trajectories. And unlike then we will sign them to their rookie extensions locking them in for 5 year max extensions. I think both are very happy here and no rookie has ever turned down that contract extension. Now we won 34 wins last year. If we play 1 game under 500 the rest of way (which against remaining schedule would be pretty poor) we would finish with 42 wins. That will pretty much guarantee the play in. With our best players being 22 and 21…. That is an excellent trajectory. Now yes this team does need tweaking imo to take another step. We will see what happens but I have no problem with them taking their time and waiting for the right opportunity.

[drsd]

I will take boring (I call it patience) over stupidity.

Can we have a hallelujah!

This roster is all about incrementalism. That said ...

I would be happy if they made a trade but it needs to be the right one. Don’t force something.

... Suggs and F-Wagner are getting ready to get massive extensions, but those don't kick in until the off-season after the next. THe Magic has three chances to retool the roster. Today, the buyout market by 1 March, and then the off-season.

The new CBA will cripple teams that over spend. So the Magic must look to moves that convert Fultz, Isaac, G-Harris and Okeke's salaries to something less than their collective totals now; that allows funds for Suggs and F-Wagner. Now; when the Magic also has to max Banchero, the moneyball staff on the Magic roster will have a great deal of work.

And thus: we return to incrementalism.

[Skybox]

Not really getting this herd mentality developing that …

Not making a trade = avoiding a bad trade.

That sounds like a plan for mediocrity and, maybe, longevity for a FO on a team with weak ownership. Preaching fear of failure over efforts toward success is like a form of gaslighting. After the initial over-analysis ended, everyone would quickly forget the bogus math re: value of future picks traded, if the team made a dramatic visible improvement.

It’d actually be really interesting to see past major trades listed with all of the players that were actually drafted with the bushels of picks teams wave as signs of their brilliance. I can’t believe “They gave three firsts” is overrated, imo…especially for a young team working towards devaluing their picks.

[fendilim]

30% of you are way all up in your feelings. Not since Penny and Shaq have we had two young players on all nba trajectories. And unlike then we will sign them to their rookie extensions locking them in for 5 year max extensions. I think both are very happy here and no rookie has ever turned down that contract extension. Now we won 34 wins last year. If we play 1 game under 500 the rest of way (which against remaining schedule would be pretty poor) we would finish with 42 wins. That will pretty much guarantee the play in. With our best players being 22 and 21…. That is an excellent trajectory. Now yes this team does need tweaking imo to take another step. We will see what happens but I have no problem with them taking their time and waiting for the right opportunity.

Different management.

So far, they have been slow, but methodical, imo.

[bigdogdylan5]

Not really getting this herd mentality developing that …

Not making a trade = avoiding a bad trade.

That sounds like a plan for mediocrity and, maybe, longevity for a FO on a team with weak ownership. Preaching fear of failure over efforts toward success is like a form of gaslighting. After the initial over-analysis ended, everyone would quickly forget the bogus math re: value of future picks traded, if the team made a dramatic visible improvement.

It’d actually be really interesting to see past major trades listed with all of the players that were actually drafted with the bushels of picks teams wave as signs of their brilliance. I can’t believe “They gave three firsts” is overrated, imo…especially for a young team working towards devaluing their picks.

The thought process is not that simple but all realistic trades carry risk front offices these days are very smart and data driven. I am sure Chicago didn’t think they would get that fleeced by the Vuc trade as bad as it happened and it normally comes down to how picks land and who is selected. I am of course 100% behind most of these pro magic trades that get discussed here. Because they are almost all no brainer and totally not realistic. I am just against the narrative that a trade must happen or front office is not doing their job. Following that analogy if I go out to buy a new car and I believe I am getting fleeced after checking every dealership in town are you saying I should just buy one. **** no. There should be no desperation here. Make a smart trade for a player with years of value. If that player is not there move forward and be patient. Figure out in off season what you want to do to roster.

[pepe1991]

Perception & ultra low expetations seems to be issue here.

"We are going to make playin". No s*** . You need to be 5th worst, among 15 to make it. Among 5 who won't make it,4 teams are blatantly tanking. Nets would too, if they had any reasons , instad they just suck.


Also "two young exiting stars". You sure nobody else has it nowdays?

Even bottom feeders like Hornets have two bright stars, Spurs have probably most talented young player of a decade, OKC's rookie might be first DPOY in history, Memphis sucks yet probably next year will have -two allstars as soon as Morant return.


Wolves best player is 22 years old and he is leading them in standings.

So you aren't as special as you think.


You have to improve at some point, more you wait, harder it will be. Magic only have one year to splash deals - end of this season and next season. After that Franz's future max contract will eat up 25% of salary. And year after Paolo's max is comming to your books.
And you probably want to resign Suggs after this year as well.

All those assets won't last forever.

Case and point- look who was "most exiting young team" in 2021 and where they are now. Hawks. You know, team that made it to ECF led by 22 and 23 years old. Now they are market sellers.

[bigdogdylan5]

I will take boring (I call it patience) over stupidity.

Can we have a hallelujah!

This roster is all about incrementalism. That said ...

I would be happy if they made a trade but it needs to be the right one. Don’t force something.

... Suggs and F-Wagner are getting ready to get massive extensions, but those don't kick in until the off-season after the next. THe Magic has three chances to retool the roster. Today, the buyout market by 1 March, and then the off-season.

The new CBA will cripple teams that over spend. So the Magic must look to moves that convert Fultz, Isaac, G-Harris and Okeke's salaries to something less than their collective totals now; that allows funds for Suggs and F-Wagner. Now; when the Magic also has to max Banchero, the moneyball staff on the Magic roster will have a great deal of work.

And thus: we return to incrementalism.

Another excellent point with CBA. A lot of people want Murray, the cost is not just trade assets it’s also critical salary in his last two years of contract making 29 and 31 million. At maybe our most vulnerable moment having to pay at least 2 max rookie extensions. That move feels good today but then we’re kinda locked in like that.

[bigdogdylan5]

Perception & ultra low expetations seems to be issue here.

"We are going to make playin". No s*** . You need to be 5th worst, among 15 to make it. Among 5 who won't make it,4 teams are blatantly tanking. Nets would too, if they had any reasons , instad they just suck.


Also "two young exiting stars". You sure nobody else has it nowdays?

Even bottom feeders like Hornets have two bright stars, Spurs have probably most talented young player of a decade, OKC's rookie might be first DPOY in history, Memphis sucks yet probably next year will have -two allstars as soon as Morant return.


Wolves best player is 22 years old and he is leading them in standings.

So you aren't as special as you think.


You have to improve at some point, more you wait, harder it will be. Magic only have one year to splash deals - end of this season and next season. After that Franz's future max contract will eat up 25% of salary. And year after Paolo's max is comming to your books.
And you probably want to resign Suggs after this year as well.

All those assets won't last forever.

Case in point- look who was "most exiting young team" in 2021 and where they are now. Hawks. You know, team that made it to ECF led by 22 and 23 years old. Now they are market sellers.

I am not saying the work is done. I am sure the FO doesn’t think so it’s just getting started. I don’t think we’re special. I am beating the drum that for as good as Franz and Paolo are there is still a lot of progress to be made for them. They are not ready to compete. Yes they need a PG but I don’t see the rush to get them one right now with the crappy options on the board. The Garland thing is a fantasy. Cleveland ain’t giving him up today. But you always look to make the team better so it just matters what’s available and none of us know

[Skybox]

Not really getting this herd mentality developing that …

Not making a trade = avoiding a bad trade.

That sounds like a plan for mediocrity and, maybe, longevity for a FO on a team with weak ownership. Preaching fear of failure over efforts toward success is like a form of gaslighting. After the initial over-analysis ended, everyone would quickly forget the bogus math re: value of future picks traded, if the team made a dramatic visible improvement.

It’d actually be really interesting to see past major trades listed with all of the players that were actually drafted with the bushels of picks teams wave as signs of their brilliance. I can’t believe “They gave three firsts” is overrated, imo…especially for a young team working towards devaluing their picks.

The thought process is not that simple but all realistic trades carry risk front offices these days are very smart and data driven. I am sure Chicago didn’t think they would get that fleeced by the Vuc trade as bad as it happened and it normally comes down to how picks land and who is selected. I am of course 100% behind most of these pro magic trades that get discussed here. Because they are almost all no brainer and totally not realistic. I am just against the narrative that a trade must happen or front office is not doing their job. Following that analogy if I go out to buy a new car and I believe I am getting fleeced after checking every dealership in town are you saying I should just buy one. **** no. There should be no desperation here. Make a smart trade for a player with years of value. If that player is not there move forward and be patient. Figure out in off season what you want to do to roster.

I don't disagree with anything you said...but wait until 3pm and we'll know how much guys (that would have clearly helped us) actually go for. If LAL, for example, gets a guy like Murray for D'Angelo Russell (expiring) and one distant FRP and some srps (or something), we'll know that our guys have been asleep at the wheel and not really in the conversation. Just an example...could also be Tyus for a single srp and bad salary (which we could beat with just an expiring and srp(s). If Weltman is not getting a call back to beat a crappy offer that means he hung up prematurely, IMO...or, possibly, that other FO's don't really respect his negotiating style or persona. Hope I'm wrong but he's obviously secretive and reveals nothing - which sounds great in a business book, but it's a small community he's working in - personalities, friendships, and trust matter as much as any Machiavellian BS.

We're all just speculating, but there have been so many stunningly low prices paid (srps have really made a comeback ) in recent years. We'll see in a few hours.

[Knightro]

Not really getting this herd mentality developing that …

Not making a trade = avoiding a bad trade.

That sounds like a plan for mediocrity and, maybe, longevity for a FO on a team with weak ownership. Preaching fear of failure over efforts toward success is like a form of gaslighting. After the initial over-analysis ended, everyone would quickly forget the bogus math re: value of future picks traded, if the team made a dramatic visible improvement.

It’d actually be really interesting to see past major trades listed with all of the players that were actually drafted with the bushels of picks teams wave as signs of their brilliance. I can’t believe “They gave three firsts” is overrated, imo…especially for a young team working towards devaluing their picks.

I agree with this a lot. Living in fear that you might make a bad deal is no way to live.

You know what happens when most teams (not the Magic) make a trade and it doesn't work out the way they wanted it to? They just make another trade to address it!

[Skybox]

Not really getting this herd mentality developing that …

Not making a trade = avoiding a bad trade.

That sounds like a plan for mediocrity and, maybe, longevity for a FO on a team with weak ownership. Preaching fear of failure over efforts toward success is like a form of gaslighting. After the initial over-analysis ended, everyone would quickly forget the bogus math re: value of future picks traded, if the team made a dramatic visible improvement.

It’d actually be really interesting to see past major trades listed with all of the players that were actually drafted with the bushels of picks teams wave as signs of their brilliance. I can’t believe “They gave three firsts” is overrated, imo…especially for a young team working towards devaluing their picks.

I agree with this a lot. Living in fear that you might make a bad deal is no way to live.

You know what happens when most teams (not the Magic) make a trade and it doesn't work out the way they wanted it to? They just make another trade to address it!

I'd also temper it by saying there are different times in a rebuild where it's not a good idea to swing for an established player. ORL is just in a really good time and place and has created a cap and pick environment where it's the obvious time. You don't HAVE to make a bad deal. Buyers have leverage too. We have desirable assets. We CAN walk out of the store with all of our coupons and gift cards still in our pocket...But, at 3pm, we will likely see what people have paid and then consider whether we could have outbid for real improvement.

I probably sound like I'm smashing the FO...but they have put themselves in a great position. If they waste it and there's evidence that we could've easily made better offers than the winning bids - they deserve all of the smashing we can give them.

[eyriq]

Perception & ultra low expetations seems to be issue here.

"We are going to make playin". No s*** . You need to be 5th worst, among 15 to make it. Among 5 who won't make it,4 teams are blatantly tanking. Nets would too, if they had any reasons , instad they just suck.


Also "two young exiting stars". You sure nobody else has it nowdays?

Even bottom feeders like Hornets have two bright stars, Spurs have probably most talented young player of a decade, OKC's rookie might be first DPOY in history, Memphis sucks yet probably next year will have -two allstars as soon as Morant return.


Wolves best player is 22 years old and he is leading them in standings.

So you aren't as special as you think.


You have to improve at some point, more you wait, harder it will be. Magic only have one year to splash deals - end of this season and next season. After that Franz's future max contract will eat up 25% of salary. And year after Paolo's max is comming to your books.
And you probably want to resign Suggs after this year as well.

All those assets won't last forever.

Case and point- look who was "most exiting young team" in 2021 and where they are now. Hawks. You know, team that made it to ECF led by 22 and 23 years old. Now they are market sellers.

"You have to improve at some point"

W/L%

2024 .529
2023 .415
2022 .268

[OrlDave]

Wolves best player is 22 years old and he is leading them in standings.

And their next 3 best players (Towns, Golbert and Connely) are 28, 31 and 36. It's not like he's leading a team of rookies out there. Our best player isn't 22 yet, with Franz and Suggs both 22. Expecting the same results as a team with 3 of their 4 best players with 8 or more years of experience is silly.

[OrlDave]

I get the impatience, but we are a very young team. We shouldn't be pushing for a finals run in year 2 of Banchgner. That being said, I do think we need to move on from Fultz and if we move him plus a pick or two for a PG who can shoot and defend then you do it immediately.

[JoshuaPotter]

My biggest issues

1) Don't know what the future cap is
2) Lack of 3rd scorer
3) All this talk about Franz / Suggs / Paolo and we forgot about Black
4) 3 more 1st in the upcoming 2 drafts
5) 2nd round picks

Translation, we have options to remain flexible but we honestly will be in a situation soon where if enough people pan out "we can't pay them all."