PG: Raptors get the win with good 4th quartre defense

[Scase]

I mean OG is a really good perimeter defender, he's also more of a spacer than RJ, at least RJ in NY. RJs just not a lockdown 3&D player, so yeah they got better and their offence can get worse and they'll still be better. IQ Isn't guarding Giannis.

I don't know what's wrong with IQs 3 though, form aside, he's absolutely hot there for Toronto, just everything else has been meh. Of course you can hope it just will take some adjustment to being a off the bench scoring threat to a starting PG. It is tougher defence.

RJ is average as a defender on a good day, and his 3 is not anywhere close to OG. So yeah, people need to not consider him any way at all, a replacement for OG. He is a bully ball 2 guard, it would be fantastic if he could keep the 3pt shooting up though and be a better scorer overall.

We need a replacement for OG, at least on the defensive end, with a passable 3.

Why can't Barnes be the replacement for OG? Everyone was always saying he should model his game after Kawhi. Barnes defense has gotten significantly better this season. Kawhi was assigned to opposing stars for his first 6 or 7 seasons. Why can't Barnes do that?

Because Kawhi is a much better offensive player than Barnes. Figured that was pretty obvious, OG is not Kawhi by a long shot either.

Scottie is a significantly better player than OG, and relegating him to a 3+D role is a gross misuse of his talents. Scottie is closer to Kawhi than he is OG, but he still isn't Kawhi.

There are not a lot of players in NBA history who can be the number 1 offensive option and number 1 defensive stopper. Those are unicorns, like MJ, Hakeem, Kawhi unicorn level, Scottie is not that.

[mdenny]

RJ is average as a defender on a good day, and his 3 is not anywhere close to OG. So yeah, people need to not consider him any way at all, a replacement for OG. He is a bully ball 2 guard, it would be fantastic if he could keep the 3pt shooting up though and be a better scorer overall.

We need a replacement for OG, at least on the defensive end, with a passable 3.

Why can't Barnes be the replacement for OG? Everyone was always saying he should model his game after Kawhi. Barnes defense has gotten significantly better this season. Kawhi was assigned to opposing stars for his first 6 or 7 seasons. Why can't Barnes do that?

Because Kawhi is a much better offensive player than Barnes. Figured that was pretty obvious, OG is not Kawhi by a long shot either.

Scottie is a significantly better player than OG, and relegating him to a 3+D role is a gross misuse of his talents. Scottie is closer to Kawhi than he is OG, but he still isn't Kawhi.

There are not a lot of players in NBA history who can be the number 1 offensive option and number 1 defensive stopper. Those are unicorns, like MJ, Hakeem, Kawhi unicorn level, Scottie is not that.

I don't understand.

For 6 to 7 years.....Kawhi was responsible for defending the opposition's best scoring threat. Why shouldn't Barnes do that? Why do we need to bring in an elite wing defender (like OG) when we already have Barnes? It seems like such a move to acquire one would constitute an inefficient overlap of skills. Plus...I'm sick of having starting lineup guys who can't dribble the ball (ie 3 and D guys).

Perhaps having Barnes means we don't need to make the offensive sacrifices to put a 3 and D guy into the starting 5? Barnes fulfills the role of a 3 and D guy except he doesn't have all the same offensive limitations associated with them.

Don't forget....during those first 5 to 7 years....Kawhi wasn't putting up crazy offensive numbers. He didn't need to. Maybe Barnes shouldnt' be burdened with the responsibility to be the clear #1 option on offense.

[Chandan]

He should be punished. That was a must lose for the tank.

Yeah, you tankers like to be losers i understand, but most fans and players want to win.

We are not naive as you. Beating the worst team in the nba doesnt make you a winner.

Getting top 6 pick from this year and next year does.

Listen to Shakril about there being no merits to tanking, while the FO is balantly tanking (except doing a mediocre job at it)

[Chalky_White]

Damn. FTR....I've defended doug in the past but I agree this is unprofessional and over the line.

His article about scotty's off-season was fair game. It was also factual.

Also...I wouldn't even have a problemif he simply criticized scotty's closeout. The problem is the totally unnecessary and sarcastic reference to the allstar selection. It's a low blow and something you'd expect more from an anonymous Twitter troll

I know there's murmurs about scotty's attitude in raptor media here and there and that's all fair game. It's specifically the choice to mock his allstar selection that is too much here for a beat writer. It's not classy or professional in context of his role/job.

You can critique a player without mocking the accomplishments of a 22 year old. And it's coming from a 60 something grizzled veteran journalist smh. Not a good look.

I think Scottie is just not comfortable talking to the media yet and that likely colours their impression of him. I've seen some of his on-camera interactions with Grange et al and they just seem awkward as hell.

They tend to give favourable coverage to the guys that tend to banter with them like FVV and Derozan.

I hear what you're saying but it's not the case. OG was awkward with the media for 4 years and yet everyone loved him. Not sure why you're mentioning Derozan in this context because he also had challenges in dealing with media during his first few years.

Scotty is just not yet a good pro. That includes a bunch of stuff including maturity, work ethic, daily routine, etc etc.

There are ALOT of NBA players who blossom into good pros sometime after the age of 22. Kyle Lowry is a great example. Despite their awkwardness with media....both OG and Derozan were solid pros pretty much out of the gate.

Don't remember how Derozan was in his early years with the media but his quotes during his latter years were absolute gold and the media ate it up.

The work ethic/maturity stuff I'm sure will improve (probably started already) with the organizations help.

[HiJiNX]

I think Scottie is just not comfortable talking to the media yet and that likely colours their impression of him. I've seen some of his on-camera interactions with Grange et al and they just seem awkward as hell.

They tend to give favourable coverage to the guys that tend to banter with them like FVV and Derozan.

I hear what you're saying but it's not the case. OG was awkward with the media for 4 years and yet everyone loved him. Not sure why you're mentioning Derozan in this context because he also had challenges in dealing with media during his first few years.

Scotty is just not yet a good pro. That includes a bunch of stuff including maturity, work ethic, daily routine, etc etc.

There are ALOT of NBA players who blossom into good pros sometime after the age of 22. Kyle Lowry is a great example. Despite their awkwardness with media....both OG and Derozan were solid pros pretty much out of the gate.

Don't remember how Derozan was in his early years with the media but his quotes during his latter years were absolute gold and the media ate it up.

The work ethic/maturity stuff I'm sure will improve (probably started already) with the organizations help.

Derozan was pretty unrefined at the beginning, like a lot of players are in their first few years dealing with media.

[Chalky_White]

Why can't Barnes be the replacement for OG? Everyone was always saying he should model his game after Kawhi. Barnes defense has gotten significantly better this season. Kawhi was assigned to opposing stars for his first 6 or 7 seasons. Why can't Barnes do that?

Because Kawhi is a much better offensive player than Barnes. Figured that was pretty obvious, OG is not Kawhi by a long shot either.

Scottie is a significantly better player than OG, and relegating him to a 3+D role is a gross misuse of his talents. Scottie is closer to Kawhi than he is OG, but he still isn't Kawhi.

There are not a lot of players in NBA history who can be the number 1 offensive option and number 1 defensive stopper. Those are unicorns, like MJ, Hakeem, Kawhi unicorn level, Scottie is not that.

I don't understand.

For 6 to 7 years.....Kawhi was responsible for defending the opposition's best scoring threat. Why shouldn't Barnes do that? Why do we need to bring in an elite wing defender (like OG) when we already have Barnes? It seems like such a move to acquire one would constitute an inefficient overlap of skills. Plus...I'm sick of having starting lineup guys who can't dribble the ball (ie 3 and D guys).

Perhaps having Barnes means we don't need to make the offensive sacrifices to put a 3 and D guy into the starting 5? Barnes fulfills the role of a 3 and D guy except he doesn't have all the same offensive limitations associated with them.

Don't forget....during those first 5 to 7 years....Kawhi wasn't putting up crazy offensive numbers. He didn't need to. Maybe Barnes shouldnt' be burdened with the responsibility to be the clear #1 option on offense.

Scottie has physical limitations that would stand in the way of being a shutdown defender, like a lack of lateral quickness for example.

Also if you want Scottie to be one of your main offensive pieces than it's probably not a great idea to give him THAT much defensive responsibility. Let him primarily focus on being a help defender, which he was thriving at being before the OG trade.

[mdenny]

I hear what you're saying but it's not the case. OG was awkward with the media for 4 years and yet everyone loved him. Not sure why you're mentioning Derozan in this context because he also had challenges in dealing with media during his first few years.

Scotty is just not yet a good pro. That includes a bunch of stuff including maturity, work ethic, daily routine, etc etc.

There are ALOT of NBA players who blossom into good pros sometime after the age of 22. Kyle Lowry is a great example. Despite their awkwardness with media....both OG and Derozan were solid pros pretty much out of the gate.

Don't remember how Derozan was in his early years with the media but his quotes during his latter years were absolute gold and the media ate it up.

The work ethic/maturity stuff I'm sure will improve (probably started already) with the organizations help.

Derozan was pretty unrefined at the beginning, like a lot of players are in their first few years dealing with media.

Right. It wasn't like he had an attitude or anything like that. He was just kinda shy and awkward. There was one off-season in particular where he came back with a strong sense of confidence but I can't remember which specific year it was. Maybe year 3 or 4?

[mdenny]

Because Kawhi is a much better offensive player than Barnes. Figured that was pretty obvious, OG is not Kawhi by a long shot either.

Scottie is a significantly better player than OG, and relegating him to a 3+D role is a gross misuse of his talents. Scottie is closer to Kawhi than he is OG, but he still isn't Kawhi.

There are not a lot of players in NBA history who can be the number 1 offensive option and number 1 defensive stopper. Those are unicorns, like MJ, Hakeem, Kawhi unicorn level, Scottie is not that.

I don't understand.

For 6 to 7 years.....Kawhi was responsible for defending the opposition's best scoring threat. Why shouldn't Barnes do that? Why do we need to bring in an elite wing defender (like OG) when we already have Barnes? It seems like such a move to acquire one would constitute an inefficient overlap of skills. Plus...I'm sick of having starting lineup guys who can't dribble the ball (ie 3 and D guys).

Perhaps having Barnes means we don't need to make the offensive sacrifices to put a 3 and D guy into the starting 5? Barnes fulfills the role of a 3 and D guy except he doesn't have all the same offensive limitations associated with them.

Don't forget....during those first 5 to 7 years....Kawhi wasn't putting up crazy offensive numbers. He didn't need to. Maybe Barnes shouldnt' be burdened with the responsibility to be the clear #1 option on offense.

Scottie has physical limitations that would stand in the way of being a shutdown defender, like a lack of lateral quickness for example.

Also if you want Scottie to be one of your main offensive pieces than it's probably not a great idea to give him THAT much defensive responsibility. Let me primarily focus on being a help defender, which he was thriving at being before the OG trade.

What do you mean by 'main offensive pieces". Like if he is one of 2 or 3 of your main offensive pieces than there's no reason why he can't defend the opposing team's star like kawhi and giannis and paul george did for several seasons when they entered the league.

Scotty is not Luka and he's not Tre Young. Clearly. I don't get the resistance in using his defensive capability efficiently in context of our starting 5. The idea of 'resting him on defense' is crazy imo. I would understand if he was a 30 and 10 guy. He's not. And we really don't have the luxury of adding an offensively inept player to our starting 5 so that Scotty doesn't cover the opposing star.

What's the point of having a two-way player if he doesn't develop a two-way game the way kawhi did? Are ppl just motivated to go this route so that his stats are optimized?

[Scase]

I don't understand.

For 6 to 7 years.....Kawhi was responsible for defending the opposition's best scoring threat. Why shouldn't Barnes do that? Why do we need to bring in an elite wing defender (like OG) when we already have Barnes? It seems like such a move to acquire one would constitute an inefficient overlap of skills. Plus...I'm sick of having starting lineup guys who can't dribble the ball (ie 3 and D guys).

Perhaps having Barnes means we don't need to make the offensive sacrifices to put a 3 and D guy into the starting 5? Barnes fulfills the role of a 3 and D guy except he doesn't have all the same offensive limitations associated with them.

Don't forget....during those first 5 to 7 years....Kawhi wasn't putting up crazy offensive numbers. He didn't need to. Maybe Barnes shouldnt' be burdened with the responsibility to be the clear #1 option on offense.

Scottie has physical limitations that would stand in the way of being a shutdown defender, like a lack of lateral quickness for example.

Also if you want Scottie to be one of your main offensive pieces than it's probably not a great idea to give him THAT much defensive responsibility. Let me primarily focus on being a help defender, which he was thriving at being before the OG trade.

What do you mean by 'main offensive pieces". Like if he is one of 2 or 3 of your main offensive pieces than there's no reason why he can't defend the opposing team's star like kawhi and giannis and paul george did for several seasons when they entered the league.

Scotty is not Luka and he's not Tre Young. Clearly. I don't get the resistance in using his defensive capability efficiently in context of our starting 5. The idea of 'resting him on defense' is crazy imo. I would understand if he was a 30 and 10 guy. He's not. And we really don't have the luxury of adding an offensively inept player to our starting 5 so that Scotty doesn't cover the opposing star.

What's the point of having a two-way player if he doesn't develop a two-way game the way kawhi did? Are ppl just motivated to go this route so that his stats are optimized?

I'm not sure how else to rephrase this. Scottie is not an elite 2 way player like Kawhi, so trying to make him that is not worth it. He is more valuable on the offensive end than defensive, you can find really good wing defenders, you cannot find elite passers that can also bang down low, and shoot from 3. He has more benefit on offence, if he is meant to orchestrate the offence in a more Jokic type position, than him trying to be a 2 way is not the best use of his talents.

His energy level seemingly cannot keep up enough to be elite on both ends. Guys like OG exist for a reason.

[mdenny]

Scottie has physical limitations that would stand in the way of being a shutdown defender, like a lack of lateral quickness for example.

Also if you want Scottie to be one of your main offensive pieces than it's probably not a great idea to give him THAT much defensive responsibility. Let me primarily focus on being a help defender, which he was thriving at being before the OG trade.

What do you mean by 'main offensive pieces". Like if he is one of 2 or 3 of your main offensive pieces than there's no reason why he can't defend the opposing team's star like kawhi and giannis and paul george did for several seasons when they entered the league.

Scotty is not Luka and he's not Tre Young. Clearly. I don't get the resistance in using his defensive capability efficiently in context of our starting 5. The idea of 'resting him on defense' is crazy imo. I would understand if he was a 30 and 10 guy. He's not. And we really don't have the luxury of adding an offensively inept player to our starting 5 so that Scotty doesn't cover the opposing star.

What's the point of having a two-way player if he doesn't develop a two-way game the way kawhi did? Are ppl just motivated to go this route so that his stats are optimized?

I'm not sure how else to rephrase this. Scottie is not an elite 2 way player like Kawhi, so trying to make him that is not worth it. He is more valuable on the offensive end than defensive, you can find really good wing defenders, you cannot find elite passers that can also bang down low, and shoot from 3. He has more benefit on offence, if he is meant to orchestrate the offence in a more Jokic type position, than him trying to be a 2 way is not the best use of his talents.

His energy level seemingly cannot keep up enough to be elite on both ends. Guys like OG exist for a reason.

Scotty will never, ever be Jokic imo. Jokic is a generational player.

Imo, Scotty's offensive game and defensive game both show huge promise but are also still not fully formed. His defense has taken the same jump this season as his offense has. In his first season I thought his offense was decidedly better than his defense but I don't think that's true now.

[Scase]

What do you mean by 'main offensive pieces". Like if he is one of 2 or 3 of your main offensive pieces than there's no reason why he can't defend the opposing team's star like kawhi and giannis and paul george did for several seasons when they entered the league.

Scotty is not Luka and he's not Tre Young. Clearly. I don't get the resistance in using his defensive capability efficiently in context of our starting 5. The idea of 'resting him on defense' is crazy imo. I would understand if he was a 30 and 10 guy. He's not. And we really don't have the luxury of adding an offensively inept player to our starting 5 so that Scotty doesn't cover the opposing star.

What's the point of having a two-way player if he doesn't develop a two-way game the way kawhi did? Are ppl just motivated to go this route so that his stats are optimized?

I'm not sure how else to rephrase this. Scottie is not an elite 2 way player like Kawhi, so trying to make him that is not worth it. He is more valuable on the offensive end than defensive, you can find really good wing defenders, you cannot find elite passers that can also bang down low, and shoot from 3. He has more benefit on offence, if he is meant to orchestrate the offence in a more Jokic type position, than him trying to be a 2 way is not the best use of his talents.

His energy level seemingly cannot keep up enough to be elite on both ends. Guys like OG exist for a reason.

Scotty will never, ever be Jokic imo. Jokic is a generational player.

Imo, Scotty's offensive game and defensive game both show huge promise but are also still not fully formed. His defense has taken the same jump this season as his offense has. In his first season I thought his offense was decidedly better than his defense but I don't think that's true now.

I feel like you're reading what you want to read at this point. I said Jokic type, as in runs the offence from the high post as a big man, not that he is Jokic.

[mdenny]

I'm not sure how else to rephrase this. Scottie is not an elite 2 way player like Kawhi, so trying to make him that is not worth it. He is more valuable on the offensive end than defensive, you can find really good wing defenders, you cannot find elite passers that can also bang down low, and shoot from 3. He has more benefit on offence, if he is meant to orchestrate the offence in a more Jokic type position, than him trying to be a 2 way is not the best use of his talents.

His energy level seemingly cannot keep up enough to be elite on both ends. Guys like OG exist for a reason.

Scotty will never, ever be Jokic imo. Jokic is a generational player.

Imo, Scotty's offensive game and defensive game both show huge promise but are also still not fully formed. His defense has taken the same jump this season as his offense has. In his first season I thought his offense was decidedly better than his defense but I don't think that's true now.

I feel like you're reading what you want to read at this point. I said Jokic type, as in runs the offence from the high post as a big man, not that he is Jokic.

Fair enough. So like Draymond then.

Draymond takes on the toughest defensive assignments without getting too exhausted to run high post.

[Scase]

Scotty will never, ever be Jokic imo. Jokic is a generational player.

Imo, Scotty's offensive game and defensive game both show huge promise but are also still not fully formed. His defense has taken the same jump this season as his offense has. In his first season I thought his offense was decidedly better than his defense but I don't think that's true now.

I feel like you're reading what you want to read at this point. I said Jokic type, as in runs the offence from the high post as a big man, not that he is Jokic.

Fair enough. So like Draymond then.

Draymond takes on the toughest defensive assignments without getting too exhausted to run high post.

Draymond also is useless as an offensive player though. Scottie just flat out doesn't have an NBA player comparison. He's got good defensive instincts but not elite, he can run an offence, but he's not going to do it putting up 30ppg. So it's some weird hybrid of Jokic/Dray/Giannis without being as good as any of them in their elite skills.

A number 1 option doesn't have to be a number 1 scoring option.

[mdenny]

I feel like you're reading what you want to read at this point. I said Jokic type, as in runs the offence from the high post as a big man, not that he is Jokic.

Fair enough. So like Draymond then.

Draymond takes on the toughest defensive assignments without getting too exhausted to run high post.

Draymond also is useless as an offensive player though. Scottie just flat out doesn't have an NBA player comparison. He's got good defensive instincts but not elite, he can run an offence, but he's not going to do it putting up 30ppg. So it's some weird hybrid of Jokic/Dray/Giannis without being as good as any of them in their elite skills.

A number 1 option doesn't have to be a number 1 scoring option.

Draymond WAS not a useless offensive player. He was the high post guy on a team that won 3 chips. (was it 4? I can't remember)

He touched the ball ALOT on those chip teams.

[Scase]

Fair enough. So like Draymond then.

Draymond takes on the toughest defensive assignments without getting too exhausted to run high post.

Draymond also is useless as an offensive player though. Scottie just flat out doesn't have an NBA player comparison. He's got good defensive instincts but not elite, he can run an offence, but he's not going to do it putting up 30ppg. So it's some weird hybrid of Jokic/Dray/Giannis without being as good as any of them in their elite skills.

A number 1 option doesn't have to be a number 1 scoring option.

Draymond WAS not a useless offensive player. He was the high post guy on a team that won 3 chips. (was it 4? I can't remember)

He touched the ball ALOT on those chip teams.

Offensive from a scoring perspective, Scottie put up better numbers as a rookie than his career highs. This isn't me taking shots at Dray, it's just a terrible comparison to make.

[links135]

I don't understand.

For 6 to 7 years.....Kawhi was responsible for defending the opposition's best scoring threat. Why shouldn't Barnes do that? Why do we need to bring in an elite wing defender (like OG) when we already have Barnes? It seems like such a move to acquire one would constitute an inefficient overlap of skills. Plus...I'm sick of having starting lineup guys who can't dribble the ball (ie 3 and D guys).

Perhaps having Barnes means we don't need to make the offensive sacrifices to put a 3 and D guy into the starting 5? Barnes fulfills the role of a 3 and D guy except he doesn't have all the same offensive limitations associated with them.

Don't forget....during those first 5 to 7 years....Kawhi wasn't putting up crazy offensive numbers. He didn't need to. Maybe Barnes shouldnt' be burdened with the responsibility to be the clear #1 option on offense.

Scottie has physical limitations that would stand in the way of being a shutdown defender, like a lack of lateral quickness for example.

Also if you want Scottie to be one of your main offensive pieces than it's probably not a great idea to give him THAT much defensive responsibility. Let me primarily focus on being a help defender, which he was thriving at being before the OG trade.

What do you mean by 'main offensive pieces". Like if he is one of 2 or 3 of your main offensive pieces than there's no reason why he can't defend the opposing team's star like kawhi and giannis and paul george did for several seasons when they entered the league.

Scotty is not Luka and he's not Tre Young. Clearly. I don't get the resistance in using his defensive capability efficiently in context of our starting 5. The idea of 'resting him on defense' is crazy imo. I would understand if he was a 30 and 10 guy. He's not. And we really don't have the luxury of adding an offensively inept player to our starting 5 so that Scotty doesn't cover the opposing star.

What's the point of having a two-way player if he doesn't develop a two-way game the way kawhi did? Are ppl just motivated to go this route so that his stats are optimized?

Kawhi when hey won DPOY was still a sub 20 PPG scorer, when he was with Toronto he certainly guarded good players, but alot also went to Danny Green. IE Green guarded Curry, but yes he guarded Giannis in the ECF.

He will to a certain extent, just not role player guarding Lebron as a 3rd(4th?) Option, unless the matchup demands it.

Either way his development at this point, probably mentioned it a dozen times in the last day, his midrange game and a decent pullup middy where he'd otherwise force it.

Any good midrange scorer today that isn't like 6"2 took a couple years to develop it. KD didn't become fire from there till the later half of his career, George had to wait for Granger to be hurt for the season, Booker was on a bad Suns team for years, Derozan had years to develop on a losing team, Kawhi took like 5 years to become a 20 ppg scorer, Doncic is an exception but he also can't defend.

He's much better as a help defender though or #2 defender as his blocks show, which is how strength. IE for big guys coming into the draft with measurements, he basically has the highest standing vertical thats played more than like 50 games. More than Blake Griffin by like 4". Hence some of his kinda far out 2 hand 2 foot dunks you don't see often.

But yeah at this point tends to force a drive to the rim where it could be a middy pullup, but his paint pullup has been decent, just needs to expand a bit.

[links135]

Fair enough. So like Draymond then.

Draymond takes on the toughest defensive assignments without getting too exhausted to run high post.

Draymond also is useless as an offensive player though. Scottie just flat out doesn't have an NBA player comparison. He's got good defensive instincts but not elite, he can run an offence, but he's not going to do it putting up 30ppg. So it's some weird hybrid of Jokic/Dray/Giannis without being as good as any of them in their elite skills.

A number 1 option doesn't have to be a number 1 scoring option.

Draymond WAS not a useless offensive player. He was the high post guy on a team that won 3 chips. (was it 4? I can't remember)

He touched the ball ALOT on those chip teams.

yes he's a great passer but.... well I mean they had Curry Thompson and Durant for 2 of those. He's just a meh scorer is all.

[mdenny]

Scottie has physical limitations that would stand in the way of being a shutdown defender, like a lack of lateral quickness for example.

Also if you want Scottie to be one of your main offensive pieces than it's probably not a great idea to give him THAT much defensive responsibility. Let me primarily focus on being a help defender, which he was thriving at being before the OG trade.

What do you mean by 'main offensive pieces". Like if he is one of 2 or 3 of your main offensive pieces than there's no reason why he can't defend the opposing team's star like kawhi and giannis and paul george did for several seasons when they entered the league.

Scotty is not Luka and he's not Tre Young. Clearly. I don't get the resistance in using his defensive capability efficiently in context of our starting 5. The idea of 'resting him on defense' is crazy imo. I would understand if he was a 30 and 10 guy. He's not. And we really don't have the luxury of adding an offensively inept player to our starting 5 so that Scotty doesn't cover the opposing star.

What's the point of having a two-way player if he doesn't develop a two-way game the way kawhi did? Are ppl just motivated to go this route so that his stats are optimized?

Kawhi when hey won DPOY was still a sub 20 PPG scorer, when he was with Toronto he certainly guarded good players, but alot also went to Danny Green. IE Green guarded Curry, but yes he guarded Giannis in the ECF.

He will to a certain extent, just not role player guarding Lebron as a 3rd(4th?) Option, unless the matchup demands it.

Either way his development at this point, probably mentioned it a dozen times in the last day, his midrange game and a decent pullup middy where he'd otherwise force it.

Any good midrange scorer today that isn't like 6"2 took a couple years to develop it. KD didn't become fire from there till the later half of his career, George had to wait for Granger to be hurt for the season, Booker was on a bad Suns team for years, Derozan had years to develop on a losing team, Kawhi took like 5 years to become a 20 ppg scorer, Doncic is an exception but he also can't defend.

He's much better as a help defender though or #2 defender as his blocks show, which is how strength. IE for big guys coming into the draft with measurements, he basically has the highest standing vertical thats played more than like 50 games. More than Blake Griffin by like 4". Hence some of his kinda far out 2 hand 2 foot dunks you don't see often.

But yeah at this point tends to force a drive to the rim where it could be a middy pullup, but his paint pullup has been decent, just needs to expand a bit.

Kawhi stopped defending the opposition's best scorers when he was like 27 or 28. When he was scotty's age up til like 26....he was defending the opposition's star player. So why can't Barnes do the same?

Again...if Barnes was an offensive player like Luka and durant....I would understand "saving him for offense". But he's not an offensive juggernaut like that. He's a two way player. He should develop like a two way player. And the team benefits from that. We don't have to compromise the offense by implementing a defensive specialist into the starting 5. That's the whole point of having a two way player.

Maybe it's just that I don't see Barnes being a 27 and 9 guy. He doesn't have the handle and the skills for that. Neither did kawhi when he was 22.

I guess I'm asserting my approach is using scotty on the terms of his strengths. The idea of resting him on defense so that he can become a bigger offensive force is trying to change him into something he's not imo. Why hold back his defensive development? Why fixate on his stats?

Ppl will call me crazy...but I'd rather have scotty than Luka. I think there is a ceiling for teams built around players like Luka. I don't want to see scotty dominate our offense like that plus I don't think he's capable of it. I know alot of ppl want that....they want scotty to be a 27 and 9 guy. That's why they don't want him covering Tatum.

In anycase...I think the raps are gonna go my way. Develop scotty as a two way player. And ultimately...I think there's alot more interesting possibilities in building a starting 5 where scotty is a two way guy who doesn't dominate the ball as compared to the Luka type model.

[links135]

What do you mean by 'main offensive pieces". Like if he is one of 2 or 3 of your main offensive pieces than there's no reason why he can't defend the opposing team's star like kawhi and giannis and paul george did for several seasons when they entered the league.

Scotty is not Luka and he's not Tre Young. Clearly. I don't get the resistance in using his defensive capability efficiently in context of our starting 5. The idea of 'resting him on defense' is crazy imo. I would understand if he was a 30 and 10 guy. He's not. And we really don't have the luxury of adding an offensively inept player to our starting 5 so that Scotty doesn't cover the opposing star.

What's the point of having a two-way player if he doesn't develop a two-way game the way kawhi did? Are ppl just motivated to go this route so that his stats are optimized?

Kawhi when hey won DPOY was still a sub 20 PPG scorer, when he was with Toronto he certainly guarded good players, but alot also went to Danny Green. IE Green guarded Curry, but yes he guarded Giannis in the ECF.

He will to a certain extent, just not role player guarding Lebron as a 3rd(4th?) Option, unless the matchup demands it.

Either way his development at this point, probably mentioned it a dozen times in the last day, his midrange game and a decent pullup middy where he'd otherwise force it.

Any good midrange scorer today that isn't like 6"2 took a couple years to develop it. KD didn't become fire from there till the later half of his career, George had to wait for Granger to be hurt for the season, Booker was on a bad Suns team for years, Derozan had years to develop on a losing team, Kawhi took like 5 years to become a 20 ppg scorer, Doncic is an exception but he also can't defend.

He's much better as a help defender though or #2 defender as his blocks show, which is how strength. IE for big guys coming into the draft with measurements, he basically has the highest standing vertical thats played more than like 50 games. More than Blake Griffin by like 4". Hence some of his kinda far out 2 hand 2 foot dunks you don't see often.

But yeah at this point tends to force a drive to the rim where it could be a middy pullup, but his paint pullup has been decent, just needs to expand a bit.

Kawhi stopped defending the opposition's best scorers when he was like 27 or 28. When he was scotty's age up til like 26....he was defending the opposition's star player. So why can't Barnes do the same?

Again...if Barnes was an offensive player like Luka and durant....I would understand "saving him for offense". But he's not an offensive juggernaut like that. He's a two way player. He should develop like a two way player. And the team benefits from that. We don't have to compromise the offense by implementing a defensive specialist into the starting 5. That's the whole point of having a two way player.

Maybe it's just that I don't see Barnes being a 27 and 9 guy. He doesn't have the handle and the skills for that. Neither did kawhi when he was 22.

I guess I'm asserting my approach is using scotty on the terms of his strengths. The idea of resting him on defense so that he can become a bigger offensive force is trying to change him into something he's not imo. Why hold back his defensive development? Why fixate on his stats?

Ppl will call me crazy...but I'd rather have scotty than Luka. I think there is a ceiling for teams built around players like Luka. I don't want to see scotty dominate our offense like that plus I don't think he's capable of it. I know alot of ppl want that....they want scotty to be a 27 and 9 guy. That's why they don't want him covering Tatum.

In anycase...I think the raps are gonna go my way. Develop scotty as a two way player. And ultimately...I think there's alot more interesting possibilities in building a starting 5 where scotty is a two way guy who doesn't dominate the ball as compared to the Luka type model.

It's not that he should be rested on defence, he's just not gonna make prime Lebron say "****" when he see's Scottie checked back in in the NBA finals level defence, so we shouldn't expect that. We can try it all we want but he's a much better fit as a help defender is all if we can make it happen.

Even then the games changed alot even since Kawhi was a DPOY, Cousins was a top 5 scorer, Derozan was top 10 and even top 5 once, Isiah Thomas was a big time scorer, back then there was maybe 4, maybe max 8 25 ppg scorers, now there's like 20, you'll need more team defence for that than just shutting down 1 guy.