Raptors & the Mid-Level Exception: A Brief History

[brownbobcat]

2019 - McCaw -> waived; RHJ -> waived
2020 - Aron Baynes -> waived; Alex Len -> waived
2021 - Khem Birch -> Poeltl filler
2022 - OPJ -> Olynyk/Agbaji filler; Koloko -> waived
2023 - Dennis Schroder -> Dinwiddie -> waived

And people wonder why the cupboard of assets has been so bare. Free agency is hard, I get it - but it's not that hard that you shouldn't be able to find a good use for the league average salary. 5 straight years and not a single useful asset added in that time. If they're just going to be used for filler, might as well sign up one of us to 1yr deals instead. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

[DelAbbot]

Khem Birch became more than Poeltl filler. Birch's following contract cost us so much in draft capital (move down in the Thad trade, and 2 SRPs in Poeltl trade). It was a veiled disaster

[DelAbbot]

Was Biyombo the last good use of the MLE ?

[gerrit4]

2016 - Jared Sullinger
2017 - CJ Miles

Yeah, it hasn't been great. I think the Dennis signing was good, and actually had value in the sense that he did fill in well as a starting PG for the first half of the season, and we got out of it without having to fork out assets.

[YogurtProducer]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we did not use the full MLE on most of these guys

[ItsDanger]

Trade ballast.

[TravisScott55]

Are there even any good candidates this off-season?

[brownbobcat]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we did not use the full MLE on most of these guys

It's their perogative to split it up or not, but zero value is zero value whether it's 1 guy or 5. In the past 2 years, the Knicks have managed to get Hartensten and DiVincenzo out of the MLE.

[bluerap23]

You can do this for every NBA team and find similar results

[YogurtProducer]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we did not use the full MLE on most of these guys

It's their perogative to split it up or not, but zero value is zero value whether it's 1 guy or 5. In the past 2 years, the Knicks have managed to get Hartensten and DiVincenzo out of the MLE.

But just because we had the full MLE available does not mean we are going to use the full MLE.

And lets see - if we offer the MLE, or NYK offers the MLE, where do you think that guy is going?

[brownbobcat]

You can do this for every NBA team and find similar results

And Masai gets paid to achieve results, not do exactly the same as every other NBA team.

[aroc23]

Are there even any good candidates this off-season?

Dinwiddie and Gary Trent Jr. are free agents

[brownbobcat]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we did not use the full MLE on most of these guys

It's their perogative to split it up or not, but zero value is zero value whether it's 1 guy or 5. In the past 2 years, the Knicks have managed to get Hartensten and DiVincenzo out of the MLE.

But just because we had the full MLE available does not mean we are going to use the full MLE.

And lets see - if we offer the MLE, or NYK offers the MLE, where do you think that guy is going?

What does it matter whether they use 50% or 100% of the MLE if they get nothing out of it? It's available to use, no different than cap space.

Hartenstein didn't get the full MLE, so he was a possibility. And I'm not saying to get the best possible guy each year, but is too much to ask for 1 asset over 5-7 years? Is that bar that low?

[ForeverTFC]

If you want to have a legitimate discussion, you'll have to do this league wide. Or at the very least pick a sample of 7-10 teams and do it. Without a comparative, what's the point of the debate?

Here is 2019 league wide to get you started: https://www.slamonline.com/news/nba/2019-nba-mid-level-exception-tracker/

[YogurtProducer]

It's their perogative to split it up or not, but zero value is zero value whether it's 1 guy or 5. In the past 2 years, the Knicks have managed to get Hartensten and DiVincenzo out of the MLE.

But just because we had the full MLE available does not mean we are going to use the full MLE.

And lets see - if we offer the MLE, or NYK offers the MLE, where do you think that guy is going?

What does it matter whether they use 50% or 100% of the MLE if they get nothing out of it? It's available to use, no different than cap space.

Hartenstein didn't get the full MLE, so he was a possibility. And I'm not saying to get the best possible guy each year, but is too much to ask for 1 asset over 5-7 years? Is that bar that low?

I mean we have. Cory Jo and CJ Miles were both MLE guys. Schroder was an MLE guy. OPJ was a solid MLE risk to take.

Sounds like to me you just have little understanding of the MLE utilization around the league.

2019-20 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/how-teams-are-using-201920-mid-level-exceptions.html
2020-21 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/12/how-teams-are-using-202021-mid-level-exceptions.html
2021-22 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/how-teams-are-using-2021-22-mid-level-exceptions.html
2022-23 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/how-teams-are-using-2022-23-mid-level-exceptions.html
2023-24 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/how-teams-are-using-2023-24-mid-level-exceptions.html

Funny enough - Schroder is one of the better player to be signed to the MLE in the last 5 years. But most MLE signings absolutely suck.

[brownbobcat]

I mean we have. Cory Jo and CJ Miles were both MLE guys. Schroder was an MLE guy. OPJ was a solid MLE risk to take.

Adding players to contending teams is not nothing because they contribute to the cause of winning. Joseph got turned into CJ, who was in turn used as filler for Gasol. If nothing else, that's 4 years of minutes. I don't disagree with the logic of OPJ, but you still have to be accountable for results. Adding Schroder to a rebuilding situation and getting zero value out of him after a year is a complete waste of time. The goal is to accumulate assets over time, not tread water.

Sounds like to me you just have little understanding of the MLE utilization around the league.

2019-20 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/how-teams-are-using-201920-mid-level-exceptions.html
2020-21 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/12/how-teams-are-using-202021-mid-level-exceptions.html
2021-22 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/how-teams-are-using-2021-22-mid-level-exceptions.html
2022-23 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/how-teams-are-using-2022-23-mid-level-exceptions.html
2023-24 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/how-teams-are-using-2023-24-mid-level-exceptions.html

Funny enough - Schroder is one of the better player to be signed to the MLE in the last 5 years. But most MLE signings absolutely suck.

And? There are a few decent signings in there. Kyle Anderson, Caleb Martin, DiVincenzo, PJ Tucker, Malik Monk, Caruso, Jae Crowder, Seth Curry, Derrick Rose. This is no different than the draft debate about Poeltl vs. the expected value of the 2024 lottery pick. The standard isn't being average. Average gets you a .500 team.

[brownbobcat]

If you want to have a legitimate discussion, you'll have to do this league wide. Or at the very least pick a sample of 7-10 teams and do it. Without a comparative, what's the point of the debate?

Here is 2019 league wide to get you started: https://www.slamonline.com/news/nba/2019-nba-mid-level-exception-tracker/

Tell me, what is the leaguewide performance of a team in the NBA and is that the standard for a guy who makes $15M+ a year?

[YogurtProducer]

I mean we have. Cory Jo and CJ Miles were both MLE guys. Schroder was an MLE guy. OPJ was a solid MLE risk to take.

Adding players to contending teams is not nothing because they contribute to the cause of winning. Joseph got turned into CJ, who was in turn used as filler for Gasol. If nothing else, that's 4 years of minutes. I don't disagree with the logic of OPJ, but you still have to be accountable for results. Adding Schroder to a rebuilding situation and getting zero value out of him after a year is a complete waste of time. The goal is to accumulate assets over time, but tread water.

Sounds like to me you just have little understanding of the MLE utilization around the league.

2019-20 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/07/how-teams-are-using-201920-mid-level-exceptions.html
2020-21 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/12/how-teams-are-using-202021-mid-level-exceptions.html
2021-22 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/how-teams-are-using-2021-22-mid-level-exceptions.html
2022-23 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/how-teams-are-using-2022-23-mid-level-exceptions.html
2023-24 https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/how-teams-are-using-2023-24-mid-level-exceptions.html

Funny enough - Schroder is one of the better player to be signed to the MLE in the last 5 years. But most MLE signings absolutely suck.

And? There are a few decent signings in there. Kyle Anderson, Caleb Martin, DiVincenzo, PJ Tucker, Malik Monk, Caruso, Jae Crowder, Seth Curry, Derrick Rose. This is no different than the draft debate about Poeltl vs. the expected value of the 2024 lottery pick. The standard isn't being average. Average gets you a .500 team.

You do realize you just listed 9 players over 5 years, right?

That just shows how ridiculous it is to be overly critical of something like this. Most of the players who end up being "hits" are guys who are able to come into a team as a 7th-10th man and just play their role. None of those guys in a vacuum are any better than Schroder, and outside of Caruso, Donte, and Monk, none of them have any value on the market.

I am sure we could have gotten an asset for Schroder if we wanted to cash out for a 2nd or something and take on salary. We opted that opening cap space and taking another jab at FA was more valuable.

[YogurtProducer]

If you want to have a legitimate discussion, you'll have to do this league wide. Or at the very least pick a sample of 7-10 teams and do it. Without a comparative, what's the point of the debate?

Here is 2019 league wide to get you started: https://www.slamonline.com/news/nba/2019-nba-mid-level-exception-tracker/

Tell me, what is the leaguewide performance of a team in the NBA and is that the standard for a guy who makes $15M+ a year?

Who makes 15+M a year we are talking about exactly?

[brownbobcat]

If you want to have a legitimate discussion, you'll have to do this league wide. Or at the very least pick a sample of 7-10 teams and do it. Without a comparative, what's the point of the debate?

Here is 2019 league wide to get you started: https://www.slamonline.com/news/nba/2019-nba-mid-level-exception-tracker/

Tell me, what is the leaguewide performance of a team in the NBA and is that the standard for a guy who makes $15M+ a year?

Who makes 15+M a year we are talking about exactly?

Masai.