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Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#501 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Feb 9, 2024 5:53 am

KillMonger wrote:
FFBlitzace wrote:I feel like it's fine we didn't do anything today, but now there is really no scenario where we should be quiet on draft night and just make our pick. We've got AB and Jett as guys that need to be integrated next year, our pick really needs to be shopped and used in a trade. If we do nothing on draft night, I will join the rest of you with being pissed.

ask me they should be getting integrated right now....the players in front of them isn't really showing a great reason as to why the rooks shouldn't be getting minutes

The rooks aren't getting minute THIS year.... because the development of Paolo and Franz takes all priority. You can't throw in a couple of young guys and hope that their development does not interfere with the current focus. Next season.... those two guys might be both all-star potential.... Paolo already reaching it this year... and after a summer with set goals.... I would not be surprised if we are integrating them both.

The FO have the best view of the growth than any of us on these boards. If the growth, mentality and skills continue to impress them behind closed doors... then I would not be surprised why they didn't make moves ... just to make moves.... but didn't pull the trigger unless it's something they really believed in.

AB has already shown that he can defend at a high level.... and even in his rookie season has shown that he can shoot it from deep with some confidence and success. And the nights he's been aggressive.... he's impressed as well.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#502 » by RookieStar » Fri Feb 9, 2024 6:30 am

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#503 » by Skin » Fri Feb 9, 2024 7:15 am

Bensational wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:The AB slander is so uncalled for.. I'm taking notes though.


It’s mental. Turning on the youngest guy on the squad who has the most upside is a wild take.

Not mental. He's about 4-5 years from being ready. No biggie. We simply shouldn't count on him until then.

So when we talk about needing help at the position, no need to get offended. Simple fact.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#504 » by Skin » Fri Feb 9, 2024 7:21 am

eyriq wrote:
Bensational wrote:
ibraheim718 wrote:The AB slander is so uncalled for.. I'm taking notes though.


It’s mental. Turning on the youngest guy on the squad who has the most upside is a wild take.
It blows my mind. The kid is a winner and it's obvious from watching. Some posters have been biased against him from the get go.

I've said he was a bad pick. I've said he has a lot of weaknesses. I've said we need an upgrade (but that goes for all of our PGs, and I fought the good fight trying to support Fultz). But I don't think I've called Black a bust. He's just not a good basketball player right now. He has A LOT to do to improve as a player.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#505 » by CarraT » Fri Feb 9, 2024 9:29 am

Skin wrote:
eyriq wrote:
Bensational wrote:
It’s mental. Turning on the youngest guy on the squad who has the most upside is a wild take.
It blows my mind. The kid is a winner and it's obvious from watching. Some posters have been biased against him from the get go.

I've said he was a bad pick. I've said he has a lot of weaknesses. I've said we need an upgrade (but that goes for all of our PGs, and I fought the good fight trying to support Fultz). But I don't think I've called Black a bust. He's just not a good basketball player right now. He has A LOT to do to improve as a player.


Most importand and obvious thing here: he is just like the worst fit you could choose when your core is Franz/Paolo (maybe add Suggs here).
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#506 » by Tarheel » Fri Feb 9, 2024 11:33 am

I think they took Black as a value/BPA play, rather than considering fit to any great extent. In fairness, this is what you should do with a high pick.

But if you do that you need to either extract the value when it is high or protect and maximise the asset to get the full benefit down the line. To do so you need to play him minutes and try and put him in situations to succeed. Coach has not done that (which isn't his fault, given the increased focus organisationally on winning this year) which points to a lack of clarity in direction. If there is more pressure to win this year, then you take Black as the value play and use him as a collateral in a trade to balance your roster and gear it more towards the pre-stated goal.

Even if you don't do that in the offseason, Black looked good enough in the starting line-up (he certainly wasn't hurting us) to keep him there and kill three birds with one stone (increase the asset value, develop Black as a starter, continue to look like a play-in level team), but you needed to make trades to maximise the efficacy (remove Fultz who is blocking minutes and, if you can, add shooting). Everyone could see that this sort of move needed to happen and they've not done anything. The prices were hardly expensive for high level shooting role players this deadline so I don't see an excuse. Not only that, but some of these deals are expiring and they've lost any value that could have been extracted from them.

When they do take action, they are quite smart and methodical and more often than not make the right decision. However, their inaction at crucial points will now cost them - I think they overthink things and are too risk averse or timid in pressure moments like the trade deadline.

We are now taking an unbalanced roster into the playoffs and will get smoked in the first round if we make it out of the play-in because we are easy to defend. Is it good for the development of our key pieces to walk into a playoff series and lose because they don't have the spacing around them to affect the game? No. If anything, it could be detrimental and lead to frustration.

It seems to me that they are overthinking and micromanaging each individual decision, when the answers at this stage are much simpler than they think they are.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#507 » by SOUL » Fri Feb 9, 2024 11:52 am

Tarheel wrote:We are now taking an unbalanced roster into the playoffs and will get smoked in the first round if we make it out of the play-in because we are easy to defend. Is it good for the development of our key pieces to walk into a playoff series and lose because they don't have the spacing around them to affect the game? No. If anything, it could be detrimental and lead to frustration.

It seems to me that they are overthinking and micromanaging each individual decision, when the answers at this stage are much simpler than they think they are.


Are you saying making the playoffs, a thing that every player on our roster is aiming towards and has worked very hard towards, is actually bad for them because they will lose to a contending team with actual championship expectations? And that the need to have yet another season of trying to get raw rookies up to speed usurps that goal?

Disagree 1000%.

I agree in the sense that it would be nice to find Black more minutes again in the rotation, but if anything, losing in the playoffs shows exactly what our flaws will be, and we have a few guys slotted to expire where Black can take over a role while hopefully finding a nice trade to balance our shooting and scoring.

I mean, I think regardless of acquisitions made at the trade deadline, most people considered us a team at the very least that should be competing in the play-ins (which we have been all year), and striving for 6th seed (which we're still in the race for). We were going to lose at the play ins or 1st round no matter our roster this year, and while some little tweaks would've been nice, there's something to be said about them running into that wall this year and getting that experience.

The only fail will be if somehow our FO decides that shooting isn't that important and re-signs everyone yet again, which I'll admit, has some probability but I think specific guys not be re-signed and drafting Black/Jett shows that they may just slot into Fultz/Harris spots after this year and hopefully chasing scoring guard this offseason.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#508 » by Tarheel » Fri Feb 9, 2024 12:14 pm

SOUL wrote:Are you saying making the playoffs, a thing that every player on our roster is aiming towards and has worked very hard towards, is actually bad for them because they will lose to a contending team with actual championship expectations? And that the need to have yet another season of trying to get raw rookies up to speed usurps that goal?

Disagree 1000%.


I don't think it's as binary as simply good or bad for them, as a whole. I'm saying that there is more of a chance that the experience is detrimental for our key pieces than there would have been had the FO used the trade deadline effectively to balance the roster. If you're Franz and Paolo going into your first playoff series, is it more beneficial to get beaten in the manner we did against Miami the other night, driving into brick walls and chucking up difficult shots, or playing in a balanced system learning how to beat those defenses?

The experience might still be beneficial for them, but I don't think it will be maximised with the roster as it stands.

SOUL wrote:I agree in the sense that it would be nice to find Black more minutes again in the rotation, but if anything, losing in the playoffs shows exactly what our flaws will be, and we have a few guys slotted to expire where Black can take over a role while hopefully finding a nice trade to balance our shooting and scoring.

I mean, I think regardless of acquisitions made at the trade deadline, most people considered us a team at the very least that should be competing in the play-ins (which we have been all year), and striving for 6th seed (which we're still in the race for). We were going to lose at the play ins or 1st round no matter our roster this year, and while some little tweaks would've been nice, there's something to be said about them running into that wall this year and getting that experience.


I mean, sure, but I can tell you what our flaws are now without a heavy playoff defeat. If you're a professional GM getting paid to figure these things out and you need a playoff humbling to work out what's wrong with your team then you're in the wrong job.

As to the second point, good is the enemy of perfect. Just because we set a goal at the beginning of the season and are on track to meet it isn't a valid excuse for me not to address the issues preventing us from exceeding it.

Whether or not we could advance past the first round this year with the right moves isn't particularly relevant to me, it's about what maximises the development experience for our core pieces in Franz and Paolo, which as I said above I don't think we are doing.

SOUL wrote:The only fail will be if somehow our FO decides that shooting isn't that important and re-signs everyone yet again, which I'll admit, has some probability but I think specific guys not be re-signed and drafting Black/Jett shows that they may just slot into Fultz/Harris spots after this year and hopefully chasing scoring guard this offseason.


Either way it's a fail, as if they let those contracts expire then they've not extracted the maximum value that they could have done from them.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#509 » by basketballRob » Fri Feb 9, 2024 12:36 pm

Black has been a bright light of the season so far. He's had periods where he shut down Brunson and Haliburton. His shooting has been better than most here expected. He also has shown he can take the ball to the basket and finish when he wants, 75% at the rim.

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#510 » by tooler » Fri Feb 9, 2024 12:38 pm

The only possible theory now is they want to give the team a sentimental chance to “play for each other” in a playoff series and then crush those hopes and open them up to the idea to make some changes. This seems really sappy and not a smart way to run an organization, especially one as someone mentioned that has to deal with time-limited contracts. It also ascribes a level of sophistication that I don’t think our front office possesses.

I think like I pointed out months ago, the front office saw all the talk about playing for each other and realized they had an excuse not to make a move at the trade deadline. Perfect excuse to stay paralyzed.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#511 » by Fortune Teller » Fri Feb 9, 2024 12:44 pm

Playing with Fultz is likely detrimental to Paolo and Franz’s development. They’re learning to play with a PG who won’t shoot threes, a complete anomaly in this league.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#512 » by Furinkazan » Fri Feb 9, 2024 12:49 pm

Fortune Teller wrote:Playing with Fultz is likely detrimental to Paolo and Franz’s development. They’re learning to play with a PG who won’t shoot threes, a complete anomaly in this league.


maybe they see it dragoonball style
If Paolo endures playing with Fultz...Imagine how will he look with a good competent pg
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Piccolo style XD



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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#513 » by Knightro » Fri Feb 9, 2024 12:58 pm

SOUL wrote:Are you saying making the playoffs, a thing that every player on our roster is aiming towards and has worked very hard towards, is actually bad for them because they will lose to a contending team with actual championship expectations? And that the need to have yet another season of trying to get raw rookies up to speed usurps that goal?

Disagree 1000%.

I agree in the sense that it would be nice to find Black more minutes again in the rotation, but if anything, losing in the playoffs shows exactly what our flaws will be, and we have a few guys slotted to expire where Black can take over a role while hopefully finding a nice trade to balance our shooting and scoring.

I mean, I think regardless of acquisitions made at the trade deadline, most people considered us a team at the very least that should be competing in the play-ins (which we have been all year), and striving for 6th seed (which we're still in the race for). We were going to lose at the play ins or 1st round no matter our roster this year, and while some little tweaks would've been nice, there's something to be said about them running into that wall this year and getting that experience.

The only fail will be if somehow our FO decides that shooting isn't that important and re-signs everyone yet again, which I'll admit, has some probability but I think specific guys not be re-signed and drafting Black/Jett shows that they may just slot into Fultz/Harris spots after this year and hopefully chasing scoring guard this offseason.


The issue is, and has always been, the front office not choosing a singular path and optimizing towards that path.

Do they want to win? Ok great! Then use some assets at your disposal to better players in here than Fultz and Harris and Ingles.

Do they want to develop? Ok great! Then play younger guys over Fultz, Harris and Ingles and live with the consequences.

The Magic don't have a good enough team to win a playoff series, yet they're also going to head into this offseason with a bunch of money coming off the books, while still not knowing if Black and Jett are capable of replacing free agents to be Fultz and Harris in the rotation next year.

That's ultimately the problem. They wanted to try and be competitive without actually *trying* to go for it.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#514 » by pepe1991 » Fri Feb 9, 2024 1:17 pm

This isn't school trip where comradery means anything, it's professional basketball.

We just allowed $ 35 000 000 of expiring money expire with nothing in return.

Will you bring back Harris? 75% no.
Will you bring back Okeke? 99% no.
Will you bring Fultz back? Hopefully not.

You already made playin, all it will take is to win 30-32 games to get there.

Nets , at 11th have 20-31 record and just sold half of a team.

Can you catch direct playin? Maybe? Pacers got Haliburton back. 76ers maybe? I saw some 6 to 8 weeks recovery projection on Embiid.

Don't know.

But the thing is, there was a chance to improve roster with near-zero investments, zero risks and we elected we won't.




And it's not like we picked path of development either. Harris and Fultz staying for reminder of a season means Black is out of rotation and Jett isn't even in NBA league.

OH and btw, we will be forced to spend crazy money to even meet mandatory salary floor. On who? Resign of Fultz and Harris? :crazy:

It was perfect time to take some okey-ish player on bloated salary ( like i don't know, Malcolm Brogdon).
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#515 » by zaymon » Fri Feb 9, 2024 1:19 pm

pepe1991 wrote:This isn't school trip where comradery means anything, it's professional basketball.

We just allowed $ 35 000 000 of expiring money expire with nothing in return.

Will you bring back Harris? 75% no.
Will you bring back Okeke? 99% no.
Will you bring Fultz back? Hopefully not.

You already made playin, all it will take is to win 30-32 games to get there.

Nets , at 11th have 20-31 record and just sold half of a team.

Can you catch direct playin? Maybe? Pacers got Haliburton back. 76ers maybe? I saw some 6 to 8 weeks recovery projection on Embiid.

Don't know.

But the thing is, there was a chance to improve roster with near-zero investments, zero risks and we elected we won't.




And it's not like we picked path of development either. Harris and Fultz staying for reminder of a season means Black is out of rotation and Jett isn't even in NBA league.

OH and btw, we will be forced to spend crazy money to even meet mandatory salary floor. On who? Resign of Fultz and Harris? :crazy:


Hopefully Jones, Claxton, plus trades
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#516 » by Bergmaniac » Fri Feb 9, 2024 1:20 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
KillMonger wrote:
FFBlitzace wrote:I feel like it's fine we didn't do anything today, but now there is really no scenario where we should be quiet on draft night and just make our pick. We've got AB and Jett as guys that need to be integrated next year, our pick really needs to be shopped and used in a trade. If we do nothing on draft night, I will join the rest of you with being pissed.

ask me they should be getting integrated right now....the players in front of them isn't really showing a great reason as to why the rooks shouldn't be getting minutes

The rooks aren't getting minute THIS year.... because the development of Paolo and Franz takes all priority. You can't throw in a couple of young guys and hope that their development does not interfere with the current focus. Next season.... those two guys might be both all-star potential.... Paolo already reaching it this year... and after a summer with set goals.... I would not be surprised if we are integrating them both.

How would giving some rotational minutes to a guy drafted to be a shooter on a team which badly lacks shooting hinder Paolo and Franz's development? And we already play a vet PG who completely refuses to shoot which makes Paolo and Franz's life unnecessarily difficult. If the development of Paolo and Franz took all priority we would have gotten them a PG who can actually shoot or run a pick and roll at an NBA level long ago.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#517 » by basketballRob » Fri Feb 9, 2024 1:21 pm

Knightro wrote:
SOUL wrote:Are you saying making the playoffs, a thing that every player on our roster is aiming towards and has worked very hard towards, is actually bad for them because they will lose to a contending team with actual championship expectations? And that the need to have yet another season of trying to get raw rookies up to speed usurps that goal?

Disagree 1000%.

I agree in the sense that it would be nice to find Black more minutes again in the rotation, but if anything, losing in the playoffs shows exactly what our flaws will be, and we have a few guys slotted to expire where Black can take over a role while hopefully finding a nice trade to balance our shooting and scoring.

I mean, I think regardless of acquisitions made at the trade deadline, most people considered us a team at the very least that should be competing in the play-ins (which we have been all year), and striving for 6th seed (which we're still in the race for). We were going to lose at the play ins or 1st round no matter our roster this year, and while some little tweaks would've been nice, there's something to be said about them running into that wall this year and getting that experience.

The only fail will be if somehow our FO decides that shooting isn't that important and re-signs everyone yet again, which I'll admit, has some probability but I think specific guys not be re-signed and drafting Black/Jett shows that they may just slot into Fultz/Harris spots after this year and hopefully chasing scoring guard this offseason.


The issue is, and has always been, the front office not choosing a singular path and optimizing towards that path.

Do they want to win? Ok great! Then use some assets at your disposal to better players in here than Fultz and Harris and Ingles.

Do they want to develop? Ok great! Then play younger guys over Fultz, Harris and Ingles and live with the consequences.

The Magic don't have a good enough team to win a playoff series, yet they're also going to head into this offseason with a bunch of money coming off the books, while still not knowing if Black and Jett are capable of replacing free agents to be Fultz and Harris in the rotation next year.

That's ultimately the problem. They wanted to try and be competitive without actually *trying* to go for it.
Black is too young to know. Did we know Suggs was going to be ready to take over the reigns as a rookie? Black is still younger than Suggs was on the day we drafted him.

Summer League starts on July 3rd, and we can start signing free agents on July 6th. We should have a better idea of how they're progressing then. I'd like to see Black, Jett, Caleb, and our pick in Summer League this year.

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#518 » by Skybox » Fri Feb 9, 2024 1:23 pm

Furinkazan wrote:
Fortune Teller wrote:Playing with Fultz is likely detrimental to Paolo and Franz’s development. They’re learning to play with a PG who won’t shoot threes, a complete anomaly in this league.


maybe they see it dragoonball style
If Paolo endures playing with Fultz...Imagine how will he look with a good competent pg
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Piccolo style XD





This could be it...Wayne Gretzky's Dad cast lead pucks in tuna fish cans for him to shoot with. When he got on the ice with rubber pucks they were a breeze. :lol:
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#519 » by pepe1991 » Fri Feb 9, 2024 1:24 pm

zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:This isn't school trip where comradery means anything, it's professional basketball.

We just allowed $ 35 000 000 of expiring money expire with nothing in return.

Will you bring back Harris? 75% no.
Will you bring back Okeke? 99% no.
Will you bring Fultz back? Hopefully not.

You already made playin, all it will take is to win 30-32 games to get there.

Nets , at 11th have 20-31 record and just sold half of a team.

Can you catch direct playin? Maybe? Pacers got Haliburton back. 76ers maybe? I saw some 6 to 8 weeks recovery projection on Embiid.

Don't know.

But the thing is, there was a chance to improve roster with near-zero investments, zero risks and we elected we won't.




And it's not like we picked path of development either. Harris and Fultz staying for reminder of a season means Black is out of rotation and Jett isn't even in NBA league.

OH and btw, we will be forced to spend crazy money to even meet mandatory salary floor. On who? Resign of Fultz and Harris? :crazy:


Hopefully Jones, Claxton, plus trades


All Nets moves were made in order to free salary cap to resign Claxton ( and hopefully offload Simmons asap- expiring next year).

What trades?
We have Suggs, Franz, Paolo, Black, Jett, Cole, Wendell and Isaac on books. Everybody else are either on team options that aren't all that worthy, or outright unrestricted FAs.
You think there is team that enters FA with " make sure you take that Ingles option so we can trade for him" mentality?
Mortiz, Ingles, Houstan, Okeke, those are C level bench players. Ingles will be 37. Again, there is strong possibility he simply retires.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#520 » by zaymon » Fri Feb 9, 2024 1:27 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:This isn't school trip where comradery means anything, it's professional basketball.

We just allowed $ 35 000 000 of expiring money expire with nothing in return.

Will you bring back Harris? 75% no.
Will you bring back Okeke? 99% no.
Will you bring Fultz back? Hopefully not.

You already made playin, all it will take is to win 30-32 games to get there.

Nets , at 11th have 20-31 record and just sold half of a team.

Can you catch direct playin? Maybe? Pacers got Haliburton back. 76ers maybe? I saw some 6 to 8 weeks recovery projection on Embiid.

Don't know.

But the thing is, there was a chance to improve roster with near-zero investments, zero risks and we elected we won't.




And it's not like we picked path of development either. Harris and Fultz staying for reminder of a season means Black is out of rotation and Jett isn't even in NBA league.

OH and btw, we will be forced to spend crazy money to even meet mandatory salary floor. On who? Resign of Fultz and Harris? :crazy:


Hopefully Jones, Claxton, plus trades


All Nets moves were made in order to free salary cap to resign Claxton ( and hopefully offload Simmons asap- expiring next year).

What trades?
We have Suggs, Franz, Paolo, Black, Jett, Cole, Wendell and Isaac on books. Everybody else are either on team options that aren't all that worthy, or outright unrestricted FAs.
You think there is team that enters FA with " make sure you take that Ingles option so we can trade for him" mentality?
Mortiz, Ingles, Houstan, Okeke, those are C level bench players. Ingles will be 37. Again, there is strong possibility he simply retires.


We will have young players, cap space and picks. It doesnt guarantee anything but we are one of few teams best positioned for a offseason trade.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !

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