Lowe/Pelton on Agbaji & KO trade + OG trade nugget

[ForeverTFC]

Some interesting insights from their conversation:

- Zach likes the deal more for Toronto than the Jazz and thinks we won the deal, Pelton is not sure he would have chased it if he was the Raptors but likes it enough
- Pelton said Agbaji for a late first last year would have been a great deal given how Agbaji was playing and while his price has gone down this year, it's still worth the swing with a late first
- Lowe said he thought the Jazz should have done KO for a late first but adding Agbaji amounted to an overpay by the Jazz
- Zach did add that the problem with Agbaji is that he doesn't dribble so he better become an elite on ball defender and hit his 3s if he wants to be a long term rotation players (this is essentially the bet by the Raptors)
- Something not yet discussed, they both mentioned that this allowed the Raptors to do some FA shopping before actual free agency with the flexibility to decide to either be an above the cap team next year by keeping Bruce Brown or trading him or become a cap room team by waiving him - essentially the Raptors signed an FA without having to commit to cap space (I'm not quite sure how this works, I'm assuming it has to do with cap holds and the IQ extension?)
- They said KO is a good player to have around a young team, especially our young team, and that he should not be expensive to keep around if the Raptors want to keep him

Interesting nugget on Chicago with Bobby Marks - apparently Chicago was trying to get "OG Anunoby type deal" for Caruso and Demar - this is what they had to say:
- Bobby: "You know how hard that deal was to pull off there? That's a 1 in a 100 type deal there."
- Lowe: "Caruso is a good player... they could have got 2 picks for Caruso if they wanted. But in terms of present day talent and value [that Toronto got], if that's what you want, he's not bringing back the same level of talent for many reasons... that NY/Toronto deal, that was a very unusual deal; it's very rare to see 3 good 26 and under players traded like that. It's a very hard deal to emulate and it is not emualatable with these Bulls players."

Hopefully this balances the conversation a bit on this forum. But I should know better...

[Thaddy]

We won the OG deal. IQ and Barrett will improve while OG has capped out.

Agbaji is a better version of Grimes with some refining. We got him without giving up Brown which is also a steal.

Dealing Dennis was good since its apparent he wanted to be a starter and we don't need that. I was sick of him hijacking the offense.

The front office is doing well. I'd like to see us go after Monk in the off season to replace Gary in the starting line up. If we can get another good rotation vet to ramp up our incoming rooks that would be solid too.

I'm thinking:

Poeltl - Olynyk
Barnes - 18th
Barrett - Agbaji
Monk - Dick
IQ - Vet

[Appostis]

We won the OG deal. IQ and Barrett will improve while OG has capped out.

Agbaji is a better version of Grimes with some refining. We got him without giving up Brown which is also a steal.

Dealing Dennis was good since its apparent he wanted to be a starter and we don't need that. I was sick of him hijacking the offense.

The front office is doing well. I'd like to see us go after Monk in the off season to replace Gary in the starting line up. If we can get another good rotation vet to ramp up our incoming rooks that would be solid too.

I'm thinking:

Poeltl - Olynyk
Barnes - 18th
Barrett - Agbaji
Monk - Dick
IQ - Vet

You're really pushing it saying a 26/27 year old is maxed out ...

[ArthurVandelay]

We won the OG deal. IQ and Barrett will improve while OG has capped out.

Agbaji is a better version of Grimes with some refining. We got him without giving up Brown which is also a steal.

Dealing Dennis was good since its apparent he wanted to be a starter and we don't need that. I was sick of him hijacking the offense.

The front office is doing well. I'd like to see us go after Monk in the off season to replace Gary in the starting line up. If we can get another good rotation vet to ramp up our incoming rooks that would be solid too.

I'm thinking:

Poeltl - Olynyk
Barnes - 18th
Barrett - Agbaji
Monk - Dick
IQ - Vet

If you put Monk in the starting lineup, you’re relying on Scottie to guard best wing. I’d rather see him roaming/helping and rebounding.

As an aside Regarding KO, I really hope Masai doesn’t overpay. Taxpayer MLE - Room exception ($5-8m) should be the absolute max.

[Got Nuffin]

We won the OG deal. IQ and Barrett will improve while OG has capped out.

Agbaji is a better version of Grimes with some refining. We got him without giving up Brown which is also a steal.

Dealing Dennis was good since its apparent he wanted to be a starter and we don't need that. I was sick of him hijacking the offense.

The front office is doing well. I'd like to see us go after Monk in the off season to replace Gary in the starting line up. If we can get another good rotation vet to ramp up our incoming rooks that would be solid too.

I'm thinking:

Poeltl - Olynyk
Barnes - 18th
Barrett - Agbaji
Monk - Dick
IQ - Vet

Really like the look of this. Would like it even better if we somehow kept our pick this season and landed Topic or Dillingham in the draft. I don't mind what I've seen of Nwora and would like to give him a chance in there as well. Brown jr as the vet wing presence.

Wouldn't mind overpaying for Monk in the off-season as he would fit this team like a glove.

[NotMyKawhi]

If Agbaji is so good why has he been traded twice on a rookie deal?

Big chance he plays behind Kelly, Brown, Dick and boucher. Most likely one of Scottie, IQ or RJ will join the bench. Maybe Kelly, Scottie, Agbaji, dick brown? I bet they sign a PG too which will drop him further down the chart.

Not a good trade. Much rather have the okc pick for 5 years than Agbaji for 2 and he doesn't even play both years stuck behind IQ, RJ, Brown and dick. Maybe trent too. Bad trade

[Los_29]

If Agbaji is so good why has he been traded twice on a rookie deal?

Big chance he plays behind Kelly, Brown, Dick and boucher. Most likely one of Scottie, IQ or RJ will join the bench. Maybe Kelly, Scottie, Agbaji, dick brown? I bet they sign a PG too which will drop him further down the chart.

Not a good trade. Much rather have the okc pick for 5 years than Agbaji for 2 and he doesn't even play both years stuck behind IQ, RJ, Brown and dick. Maybe trent too. Bad trade

Agbaji was in the deal for Mitchell. That’s why he was dealt the first time.

The problem with the OKC pick is it’s for this year so it will likely be in the 27-30 range. In a weak draft that’s not particularly a good slot to be in especially when you factor in the length of the contract.

[NotMyKawhi]

If Agbaji is so good why has he been traded twice on a rookie deal?

Big chance he plays behind Kelly, Brown, Dick and boucher. Most likely one of Scottie, IQ or RJ will join the bench. Maybe Kelly, Scottie, Agbaji, dick brown? I bet they sign a PG too which will drop him further down the chart.

Not a good trade. Much rather have the okc pick for 5 years than Agbaji for 2 and he doesn't even play both years stuck behind IQ, RJ, Brown and dick. Maybe trent too. Bad trade

Agbaji was in the deal for Mitchell. That’s why he was dealt the first time.

The problem with the OKC pick is it’s for this year so it will likely be in the 27-30 range. In a weak draft that’s not particularly a good slot to be in especially when you factor in the length of the contract.

It's a crapshoot. Much rather have the okc pick than a guy who hasn't worked out w 2 teams already. Guy can't dribble at all. Bad trade. Won't play ahead of Brown or Dick off the bench. Horrible trade

[Bruin]

If Agbaji is so good why has he been traded twice on a rookie deal?

Big chance he plays behind Kelly, Brown, Dick and boucher. Most likely one of Scottie, IQ or RJ will join the bench. Maybe Kelly, Scottie, Agbaji, dick brown? I bet they sign a PG too which will drop him further down the chart.

Not a good trade. Much rather have the okc pick for 5 years than Agbaji for 2 and he doesn't even play both years stuck behind IQ, RJ, Brown and dick. Maybe trent too. Bad trade

Agbaji was in the deal for Mitchell. That’s why he was dealt the first time.

The problem with the OKC pick is it’s for this year so it will likely be in the 27-30 range. In a weak draft that’s not particularly a good slot to be in especially when you factor in the length of the contract.

It's a crapshoot. Much rather have the okc pick than a guy who hasn't worked out w 2 teams already. Guy can't dribble at all. Bad trade. Won't play ahead of Brown or Dick off the bench. Horrible trade

That’s not fair. He was traded to Utah before his career even started and didn’t even have his first training camp when he was moved for Donovan Mitchell in the offseason

[billy_hoyle]

We won the OG deal. IQ and Barrett will improve while OG has capped out.

Agbaji is a better version of Grimes with some refining. We got him without giving up Brown which is also a steal.

Dealing Dennis was good since its apparent he wanted to be a starter and we don't need that. I was sick of him hijacking the offense.

The front office is doing well. I'd like to see us go after Monk in the off season to replace Gary in the starting line up. If we can get another good rotation vet to ramp up our incoming rooks that would be solid too.

I'm thinking:

Poeltl - Olynyk
Barnes - 18th
Barrett - Agbaji
Monk - Dick
IQ - Vet

Really like the look of this. Would like it even better if we somehow kept our pick this season and landed Topic or Dillingham in the draft. I don't mind what I've seen of Nwora and would like to give him a chance in there as well. Brown jr as the vet wing presence.

Wouldn't mind overpaying for Monk in the off-season as he would fit this team like a glove.

That team seems too small to me.

I think you want to keep RJ at SG, and find a good shooting SF.

I would prefer taking a shot at Pat Williams.

Agreed on Topic. Sheppard would also look nice in the backup PG slot. Risacher looks like an ideal fit in the SF spot if you asked me.

[Los_29]

If Agbaji is so good why has he been traded twice on a rookie deal?

Big chance he plays behind Kelly, Brown, Dick and boucher. Most likely one of Scottie, IQ or RJ will join the bench. Maybe Kelly, Scottie, Agbaji, dick brown? I bet they sign a PG too which will drop him further down the chart.

Not a good trade. Much rather have the okc pick for 5 years than Agbaji for 2 and he doesn't even play both years stuck behind IQ, RJ, Brown and dick. Maybe trent too. Bad trade

Agbaji was in the deal for Mitchell. That’s why he was dealt the first time.

The problem with the OKC pick is it’s for this year so it will likely be in the 27-30 range. In a weak draft that’s not particularly a good slot to be in especially when you factor in the length of the contract.

It's a crapshoot. Much rather have the okc pick than a guy who hasn't worked out w 2 teams already. Guy can't dribble at all. Bad trade. Won't play ahead of Brown or Dick off the bench. Horrible trade

Ochai was part of the Mitchell trade. He never played in Cleveland.

I’m not a big Ochai fan. He doesn’t have a ton of upside but there is a path for him to be a good rotation player. Extremely unlikely you get that at pick 29 in a terrible draft. We also have a pick at 31 and Indiana’s pick.

Great value trade.

[DG88]

This deadline was to do some light house keeping and setting the table for Scottie and the young guys to develop. Overall I'm fine with the outcome of this deadline. Now it's all about the draft and growing this team for the next 2-3 years.

[mtcan]

If Agbaji is so good why has he been traded twice on a rookie deal?

Big chance he plays behind Kelly, Brown, Dick and boucher. Most likely one of Scottie, IQ or RJ will join the bench. Maybe Kelly, Scottie, Agbaji, dick brown? I bet they sign a PG too which will drop him further down the chart.

Not a good trade. Much rather have the okc pick for 5 years than Agbaji for 2 and he doesn't even play both years stuck behind IQ, RJ, Brown and dick. Maybe trent too. Bad trade

Agbaji was in the deal for Mitchell. That’s why he was dealt the first time.

The problem with the OKC pick is it’s for this year so it will likely be in the 27-30 range. In a weak draft that’s not particularly a good slot to be in especially when you factor in the length of the contract.

It's a crapshoot. Much rather have the okc pick than a guy who hasn't worked out w 2 teams already. Guy can't dribble at all. Bad trade. Won't play ahead of Brown or Dick off the bench. Horrible trade

The mystery box that is the unknown draft pick is alway more enticing until you realize that it's Malachi Flynn.

I'm excited to see if Ochai can be a solid 3+D guy. I'm always willing to give the guy the length of the rookie contract before I rule him out as an NBA player and Ochai's only in his second season.

[ATLTimekeeper]

When the OG trade went down Lowe was more than happy to put the 'toxic asset' label on him, and now that he's killing it he's singing a different song.

I absolutely hate the Agbaji & KO trade. Could have signed KO in the off-season. Webster literally sold Agbaji's to the media as someone whose energy would help lift Scottie's spirits, and is between the age of 22-28.

[Los_29]

Agbaji was in the deal for Mitchell. That’s why he was dealt the first time.

The problem with the OKC pick is it’s for this year so it will likely be in the 27-30 range. In a weak draft that’s not particularly a good slot to be in especially when you factor in the length of the contract.

It's a crapshoot. Much rather have the okc pick than a guy who hasn't worked out w 2 teams already. Guy can't dribble at all. Bad trade. Won't play ahead of Brown or Dick off the bench. Horrible trade

The mystery box that is the unknown draft pick is alway more enticing until you realize that it's Malachi Flynn.

I'm excited to see if Ochai can be a solid 3+D guy. I'm always willing to give the guy the length of the rookie contract before I rule him out as an NBA player and Ochai's only in his second season.

Yep and there is a clear path for him to have a solid NBA career.

[Thaddy]

We won the OG deal. IQ and Barrett will improve while OG has capped out.

Agbaji is a better version of Grimes with some refining. We got him without giving up Brown which is also a steal.

Dealing Dennis was good since its apparent he wanted to be a starter and we don't need that. I was sick of him hijacking the offense.

The front office is doing well. I'd like to see us go after Monk in the off season to replace Gary in the starting line up. If we can get another good rotation vet to ramp up our incoming rooks that would be solid too.

I'm thinking:

Poeltl - Olynyk
Barnes - 18th
Barrett - Agbaji
Monk - Dick
IQ - Vet

You're really pushing it sayinga 26/26 year old is maxed out ...

We are the best developmental organization in the NBA while the Knicks aren't. We are also rebuilding, which means more opportunities for young players on an extended leash. The Knicks have a fixed role for OG.

With the above considered. Do you believe OG will turn into a three level scorer that doesn't turnover the ball while falling over?

No.

[NinjaBro]

When the OG trade went down Lowe was more than happy to put the 'toxic asset' label on him, and now that he's killing it he's singing a different song.

I absolutely hate the Agbaji & KO trade. Could have signed KO in the off-season. Webster literally sold Agbaji's to the media as someone whose energy would help lift Scottie's spirits, and is between the age of 22-28.

Lowe didn't label RJ a toxic asset, he paraphrased what one league executive told him.

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

[MiamiSPX]

Imagine being a Bulls fan.

[OakleyDokely]

Imagine being a Bulls fan.

With the emergence of White, they had such an out to trade the old expensive guys and build around him but instead....they did nothing. All for a team that's at best a .500, 9th/10th seed.

They likely lose DD for nothing this offseason, Lavine is tough to trade with all the injuries and Vuc who is going to be 34 at the start of next season is still owed 20+ over the next couple seasons.

[Indeed]

It's a crapshoot. Much rather have the okc pick than a guy who hasn't worked out w 2 teams already. Guy can't dribble at all. Bad trade. Won't play ahead of Brown or Dick off the bench. Horrible trade

The mystery box that is the unknown draft pick is alway more enticing until you realize that it's Malachi Flynn.

I'm excited to see if Ochai can be a solid 3+D guy. I'm always willing to give the guy the length of the rookie contract before I rule him out as an NBA player and Ochai's only in his second season.

Yep and there is a clear path for him to have a solid NBA career.

I doubt Agbaji is anything solid, but it is better than the low 1st.
Baby step for getting better asset, and shall see how we are using the cap space, either to tank and acquire more picks, or sign a max (or near max) contract. Brown can be traded before the FA as well, just that the salary may need to be lower for more cap space.