drsd wrote:Knightro wrote:p0peye wrote:This roster is built for playoff success.
It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.
Worked out for the 2022/23 Heat though.
Outliers are outliers for a reason
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drsd wrote:Knightro wrote:p0peye wrote:This roster is built for playoff success.
It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.
Worked out for the 2022/23 Heat though.
Knightro wrote:p0peye wrote:This roster is built for playoff success.
It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.
Knightro wrote:drsd wrote:Knightro wrote:
It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.
Worked out for the 2022/23 Heat though.
Outliers are outliers for a reason
BadMofoPimp wrote:If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.
MagicMatic wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
Knightro wrote:p0peye wrote:This roster is built for playoff success.
It's not really at all as presently constructed. Not nearly enough scoring/shooting.
MagicMatic wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
Skybox wrote:MagicMatic wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.
what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.
AaronB wrote:Skybox wrote:MagicMatic wrote:
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.
what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.
The actual saying the way we use it in Engineering is “Better is the Enemy of good enough”. The point that much money can be wasted making a product better when it is fine the way it is.
It kind of goes against your point and there may be other variations that support your point, but that is how we use it in technical fields.
Skybox wrote:MagicMatic wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.
what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.
ogmagicfan wrote:Skybox wrote:MagicMatic wrote:
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.
what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.
Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.
Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.
Audi wrote:ogmagicfan wrote:Skybox wrote:
100...Paolo and Franz' age is basically no longer relevant. They are here and ready. The fact that they are very young is ONLY a happy bonus, giving us a larger window to work with. Slowing the train because of their birthdates is absolutely without logic. THEY do not need patience. They will get better, but they do not need time on the JV. We are very lucky to strike gold so early and twice. This season is now a waste...a great success, but relatively speaking - could have been more.
what's the saying? "The good is often the enemy of the best"...Weltman congratulating himself & everybody on the season because the bar was so low. Doesn't mean we won't get there, but it's still malpractice to not get there sooner if F&P are ahead of schedule.
Exactly how I feel about it. Paolo & Franz being ahead of schedule is great, but just because we keep overperforming doesn't mean we should continue to sit pat when there are clear deficiencies on our team, and have been deficiencies since Dwight has left. Shooting & PG play.
Even if we got a Tyus Jones/Monte Morris level PG this offseason & a shooter off the bench, we could have been looking at 50+ wins and confidently top 5 seed in the East. While getting to see our team with actual normal NBA spacing to better evaluate our team and it wouldnt even cost anything to compromise our flexibility for future years.
I get what you are saying but what makes you think we’ve not seen this team operate with “normal NBA spacing”? Fultz has played less than 20 games and he’s the main reason anyone even talks about it. Even when he’s on the floor, we’ve still got a floor spacing C in Wendell bringing that starting LU to 4/5 guys capable of hitting 3s at a decent clip, which is pretty much par the course across the league. I’m not saying we won’t benefit from a PG upgrade, but the idea we’ve never seen these guys operate in space is overblown.
Fortune Teller wrote:Weltman's 2023-24 fiscal year included three opportunities to improve the team: 1) 2023 draft; 2) 2023 free agency period; 3) 2024 trade deadline. He had two lottery picks and multiple expiring contracts to work with.
So let's pretend we're his boss doing his annual performance review. He added Black, a bench project who might be good in a few years but hasn't shown much offensive talent. He added Jett, a G-League project who was a head-scratching reach at #11 and may or may not be an NBA player one day. And he added Ingles, 36 years old.
Any attempt to defend or justify that year of "accomplishments" sounds desperate.
The weakest argument is that it was always the plan for Black and Jett to sit all year even though the starting PG won't shoot outside the paint, doesn't draw fouls, and has low assist numbers. We're not Denver or Boston. You don't "draft & stash" when you have glaring holes on the roster. Our entire backcourt is a giant black hole. Welt did nothing to improve the guard rotation, and nothing to improve 3-point shooting.
BadMofoPimp wrote:MagicMatic wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:If you are forced to make a trade, then you end up getting the short end of the deal. Thus, if all the teams you spoke to end up giving you bad deal offers, then don't make a damned deal.
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
Well, if every supposed deal out there Weltman talked to teams about involved the Magic giving up more than what they got in return, then I would have to disagree with your assumption that the team needs to make a deal only to make a deal to make some fans happy. I would never want to overpay for a player unless it was a player the level of Dejounte Murray. I think he would have been a game changer this season, but the Magic are playing for the future, not right now for impatient fans. This is not NBA2k.
MagicMatic wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:MagicMatic wrote:
You also cannot win deals if you never make deals. Smooth brained logic.
Orlando is being led by a bunch of young dudes and has a supporting cast of guys that are either also very young or completely washed up.
The idea is that you want the young guys surrounded by talent so that they aren’t struggling and tasked with doing more than necessary to win games while developing. Weltman does neither Franz or Paolo any favors rolling out a roster that has trouble scoring on any above average defense. You can’t “develop out of” a flawed roster with all the same shortcomings. If anything you are making it more difficult.
Well, if every supposed deal out there Weltman talked to teams about involved the Magic giving up more than what they got in return, then I would have to disagree with your assumption that the team needs to make a deal only to make a deal to make some fans happy. I would never want to overpay for a player unless it was a player the level of Dejounte Murray. I think he would have been a game changer this season, but the Magic are playing for the future, not right now for impatient fans. This is not NBA2k.
What you are missing here, and the entire argument in general, is that nobody here seriously believed Dejounte Murray was an option. That’s not the argument at all.
There is a grey area. The options don’t end with needing to overpay terrible washed up constantly injured players OR trading every asset possible for a decent starter.
Doug McDermott was traded for a second round pick. Orlando doesn’t even use second round picks. That’s just one example. There isn’t a chance in hell Orlando’s first this year will do more to help the team than Tyus Jones would on this roster. That was supposedly the asking price. He’s an average point guard that isn’t riddled by injuries or glaring weaknesses that opposing defenses can easily scheme against.
What is this NBA2k comment? Are you dense enough to think Orlando doesn’t have enough assets to land a stopgap point guard anywhere in the league ? This is homer talk when the FO does absolutely nothing for 7 years in a row without being prompted to by players or ownership.