PG: RIP the pick, unleash dick

[Raps in 4]

deepfake. doncha know they absolutely hate each other!!!

Doug Smith is fuming right now as the narrative he worked so hard to craft last year falls apart.

[Pointgod]

I don't think he's a #1 option on a winning team. But an allstar two-way player is sometimes better than that to build around.

Dame, Harden, doncic are good examples of #1 options that never produced viable contender teams. There are so many more possibilities if we focus on scottie being a two-way guy instead of a stat-hound. Perhaps a soft #1 option. Not someone solely responsible for the scoring.

I think we actually need to see a team built around him that play to his strengths before determining if he’s a #1 option. We did the hard part, getting rid of Siakam. Now it’s time to build.

wow.

You do not build an entire franchise around someone HOPING he becomes whatever you have in your head about scotty.

If he was the guy you envision....he would be the guy you envision. There's no such thing as 'young player x would have been a top 5 player but his front office didn't build around him so it didn't happen'.

You are buying into the toxic subset of fans that for whatever reason decided to jump on scotty's back and ride him. We are going to witness that whole thing crumble now. They spammed this board. They harassed raptor media people. They harassed fred's wife. They blamed pascal. They blamed fred. They blamed Nurse. They blamed Dennis. Everything is a soap opera. This guy is selfish. This guy is jealous. Everyone needs a floater. Ball movement. Addition by subtraction.

All the narratives spun by strangely devoted Scotty fans were wrong. Playing with fred and siakam under nurse gave scotty an advantage against the rest of his draft class. It was not a disadvantage.

I get the feeling that the majority of spam trolls on this board are directly associated to Pensare and his seething podcasts. I flipped through one yesterday. This brother needs help. He takes basketball WAY TOO personally. The hate he has for players is unhealthy and the love he has for players is weird. Is it a coincidence that players receiving the most toxic forms of hate on this board are also players that Pensare spreads toxic hate about on his podcast?

I'm just saying....there is an observable pathological dynamic going on there. The other very transparent game they are playing is the persecution complex. They assert that the raptor media is full of 'scotty haters' and anyone on this board who does not fall in line with their delusional narratives are also 'scotty haters'.

It's a bit alarming tbh. Ppl in raptor media are aware of it. They get trolled by this toxic element. They hate TSN. They hate sportsnet. They hate Will Lou. They hate Matt and Jack and Leo and Alvin. They hate grange. They hate Doug. The whole thing is like Trump rhetoric. Clear the swamp or whatever.

Why does the toxic element of raptor fans all share the same narratives specifically about scotty? It's certainly not Scotty's fault.

In anycase...the whole thing is gonna come undone now.

Sir this is a Wendy’s……..

No where in your incoherent rant did you even begin to approach a rationale argument. All I’m saying is that we should be around the player that we’ve proclaimed will lead our franchise…. It’s not a novel concept. That means surrounding Scottie with players that will maximize his strengths and cover up for his weaknesses. It’s a very simple concept that every front office worth their salary would apply. I don’t know where you got that I’m some Scottie apologists or I hate the Raptors organization or I follow some Pensare person. Weird tangent….

[Chandan]

I think we actually need to see a team built around him that play to his strengths before determining if he’s a #1 option. We did the hard part, getting rid of Siakam. Now it’s time to build.

wow.

You do not build an entire franchise around someone HOPING he becomes whatever you have in your head about scotty.

If he was the guy you envision....he would be the guy you envision. There's no such thing as 'young player x would have been a top 5 player but his front office didn't build around him so it didn't happen'.

You are buying into the toxic subset of fans that for whatever reason decided to jump on scotty's back and ride him. We are going to witness that whole thing crumble now. They spammed this board. They harassed raptor media people. They harassed fred's wife. They blamed pascal. They blamed fred. They blamed Nurse. They blamed Dennis. Everything is a soap opera. This guy is selfish. This guy is jealous. Everyone needs a floater. Ball movement. Addition by subtraction.

All the narratives spun by strangely devoted Scotty fans were wrong. Playing with fred and siakam under nurse gave scotty an advantage against the rest of his draft class. It was not a disadvantage.

I get the feeling that the majority of spam trolls on this board are directly associated to Pensare and his seething podcasts. I flipped through one yesterday. This brother needs help. He takes basketball WAY TOO personally. The hate he has for players is unhealthy and the love he has for players is weird. Is it a coincidence that players receiving the most toxic forms of hate on this board are also players that Pensare spreads toxic hate about on his podcast?

I'm just saying....there is an observable pathological dynamic going on there. The other very transparent game they are playing is the persecution complex. They assert that the raptor media is full of 'scotty haters' and anyone on this board who does not fall in line with their delusional narratives are also 'scotty haters'.

It's a bit alarming tbh. Ppl in raptor media are aware of it. They get trolled by this toxic element. They hate TSN. They hate sportsnet. They hate Will Lou. They hate Matt and Jack and Leo and Alvin. They hate grange. They hate Doug. The whole thing is like Trump rhetoric. Clear the swamp or whatever.

Why does the toxic element of raptor fans all share the same narratives specifically about scotty? It's certainly not Scotty's fault.

In anycase...the whole thing is gonna come undone now.

Sir this is a Wendy’s……..

No where in your incoherent rant did you even begin to approach a rationale argument. All I’m saying is that we should be around the player that we’ve proclaimed will lead our franchise…. It’s not a novel concept. That means surrounding Scottie with players that will maximize his strengths and cover up for his weaknesses. It’s a very simple concept that every front office worth their salary would apply. I don’t know where you got that I’m some Scottie apologists or I hate the Raptors organization or I follow some Pensare person. Weird tangent….

He's just has a very strong imagination. That part about harassment is weird as **** and made up. Just like when he told the forum some tall tales about some "lady friend". mdenny reminds me a lot about Pensare *theMessiah" on this forum.

[YogurtProducer]

I’m very surprised Whitmore is this good at 19. He’s easily on an All-Star trajectory.

I have my doubts. I don't think his lack of playmaking will ever get him a starter position on a team good enough to make it

He got 1 assist last night... and his average went up for the year

[2019nbachamps]

I love how Masai uses picks to trade for guys that he sees upside. This team is in such a better spot then they were at the beginning of the year when thinking about the future. Love watching them

Sent from my Pixel 8 using RealGM mobile app

When you look at the whole picture, we acquired

Quickley
Barrett
Ochia
Nwora
2024 1st
2026 1st
Detroit 2024 2nd
Porter
JFL
(Shame I can’t add Koloko to this list)

With Brown and Olynyk as solid vet acquisitions.

To a core of Barnes, Trent, Poeltl and Dick. It’s a pretty great pivot.

No bad contracts and the only bad thing is the poeltl pick we owe.

Agreed. Now I know your mis-spelling Ochai was accidental. Only thing, I can’t tell which I like more. Chai or Chia. LOL. O-Chia for the win. Big chia pet mood.

Edit: also the Poeltl pick is chill. I’m really about our C rotation being one of the best in the league if Kelly signs on long term. Kelly is the new Gasol on offense. And we have Poeltl for some of that Gasol defense. Plus Jontay. Very happy with our big rotation, especially if we also include Scottie and Boucher.

With all due respect, I wouldn’t call the pivot great. I’m happy we picked a direction but we didn’t get a massive haul in return. RJ and IQ are the only guys we know will be contributors. The other guys are still unknowns. It’s also fair to point out our FO hasn’t hit on any prospects they’ve traded for or signed in 5+ years so we should temper expectations for now. It’ll likely take at least a year for us to be able to grade how effective our pivot has been.

[Tha Cynic]

I think we need to start focusing more on the positives. This team is proving it can look very competent on both ends of the floor for stretches. Now we need to get to that level consistently. I think fatigue is an issue—the tag and recover and switch if necessary sort of matchup zone thing we have been doing recently is a hard style to play for a variety of reasons. It’s tiring guys out. Or the bench players can’t execute it (they’re not making the reads fast enough). But when we get there we will be good.

After the system is in place and working, the next step will be individual improvements from BBQ, including learning how to execute down the stretch.

All in all, I don’t actually think we are that far away. We will still likely suck the rest of the year but I foresee us having a pretty decent season next year where we sneak into the playoffs as a lower seed (which is what I thought this year but was clearly wrong lol).

I'm enjoying watching basketball more than I did the last season and a half. This team has some decent talent and good growth opportunities. And they're fun when things are clicking. I'm excited to see how they implement some defensive play within this core. I think the mature people realize this team is going to keep trying to get better and understand this is a transition phase while they develop these young guys. Anyone bitching about every bad game just doesn't get it lol. It is expected that this team will struggle and our better players will go through some growing pains.

Both Quickley and Barnes are now working on being go to scorers. Both are adjusting and figuring out how to do it. Barnes needs to add more touch and refine his scoring. Quickley needs to figure out how to create.

Barrett seems to have already mastered how to get points using his strengths and will now look to expand his mid range.

Gradey Dick looks like he belongs on the court now.

We have a prospect who we hope can be a POA defender.

It's good times. Reminds me of the Lowry and DeRozan early years. The great thing about this era is that even this year they still have a chance to make the play-in.

[bargs4mvp]

Just checking the comments, same toxic bots spamming. My fav is the xtc account which every week spams that it was the first on the Scottie train. Copy paste bot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[anotherhomer]

When you look at the whole picture, we acquired

Quickley
Barrett
Ochia
Nwora
2024 1st
2026 1st
Detroit 2024 2nd
Porter
JFL
(Shame I can’t add Koloko to this list)

With Brown and Olynyk as solid vet acquisitions.

To a core of Barnes, Trent, Poeltl and Dick. It’s a pretty great pivot.

No bad contracts and the only bad thing is the poeltl pick we owe.

have to agree it's a solid pivot....
they got three potential blocks in Quickley, Barret and Barnes, a clean cap space and most of their picks

now they can determine what they have

It's a solid pivot on paper but a TBD on the court on whether IQ & RJ can produce wins. The proof is in the pudding and so far, the Knicks has been winning like gangbusters since the trade, 4 of 6 without OG. Conversely, the BBQ era has started winning only 3 of 15. Our defense is dreadful - is OG that good or IQ/RJ that bad? Or simply BBQ needs more time together?

You can argue this is because we're tanking, but the trades at the deadline isn't clear that's the case and the team appears to be continuing trying to win games, e.g., yesterday IQ and RJ played 38 & 36 mins , respectively, while Dick got only 20 and Nwora 7.

If we're being optimistic, it looks like BBQ needs more time to gel and build chemistry. Assuming the goal is not to tank this year, I'd like to see better results, at least .500 for remainder of season to give hope to start next season's playoff pursuit.

because the pick may convey, i think the team is using rest of season to determine what they have.

I agree, BBQ may not turn out to be the core, but at least we'll find out.
Next season is interesting.
The thinking is that Raps should prioritize development but there maybe pressure to compete for playoffs.

[mg]

Just convey the pick. The prospects at 17-20 should be just as good in this draft. This will also give them a clean slate moving forward in terms of draft picks.

[ATLTimekeeper]

We had Porter and JFL level prospects as our 9th and 10th guys. Now they’re our 13-15th guys. That’s a big difference. We’re developing fringe youth prospects instead of throwing them into the fire.

Porter has started 5 out of his 15 games. I would call that throwing him into the fire. Either way, these types of players are always around. Not sure we should give the Raptors credit here.

It makes sense when you consider not everyone has to be a rookie. We have 2-3 picks in this draft. We want to have 4 rookies on the team at once?

No, I'm not about that. Agbaji is not a rookie, but he's not established either and was essentially given up on for a late first. I think there's a role for him here, and I was supportive of trading the pick. To me this sounds like Masai just didn't want the pick at all, had to stop himself in the press conference from calling the draft garbage, and found it actually was worth less than he thought.

Thad wasn’t getting us anything. We can’t turn around now, after years of mocking Thad, and say he should have netted us a return. He’s a break in case of emergency vet.

Schroeder I thought we could get something, but let’s see how they use the capspace. We signed him and dealt him in 6 months. If that’s a step back it’s a very tiny one.

I'm not arguing we should have parlayed these players into assets, but that they were 'depth' for this team that the team decided they'd rather not have. How can we argue this team is deep? Only if they win. Right now they are just crap. What good is depth on a terrible team? So, if they turn the season around and finish the rest of the year winning a more than losing than I would agree with you that we're deeper.

Once they decided to pivot, they pivoted. The poeltl trade and lose of FVV was the last move of awkward trying to figure it out.

After that it’s been trying to tear it down. Which they’ve done in short order, acquiring 3 picks, 4 players 25 and under and jettisoning vets that mostly weren’t contributing.

I mean, did they? They made some kind of decision on Siakam in the summer that led to Masai giving a blubbering apology. They didn't trade Bruce Brown, but are selling the flexibility to do so this summer. The criticism I'm making is they hedged and deferred for not much gain. When they made the Norm for Trent trade and then Lowry for Achiuwa, there was also this 'new group' and youth movement and it seemed to result in chemistry issues and no one developed. I'm definitely more 'show me' these days than 'I hope this works.' There's younger teams in the playoffs. There's teams with mixes of young and old stars in the playoffs. I guess I'd like to hear management try and justify why nothing they've done lately has worked as intended, and what makes them confident they're on the right track here.

[Duffman100]

Porter has started 5 out of his 15 games. I would call that throwing him into the fire. Either way, these types of players are always around. Not sure we should give the Raptors credit here.

The key context is "while he's been here". And he's started due to the injuries and player movement combined with our prospect having a medical issue. The entire point of having depth at the 13-15 spots.

No, I'm not about that. Agbaji is not a rookie, but he's not established either and was essentially given up on for a late first. I think there's a role for him here, and I was supportive of trading the pick. To me this sounds like Masai just didn't want the pick at all, had to stop himself in the press conference from calling the draft garbage, and found it actually was worth less than he thought.

Masai didn't want all the picks. He said that immediately and now has turned one of those late picks into a young prospect and rotation player. It isn't an awful trade.

I'm not arguing we should have parlayed these players into assets, but that they were 'depth' for this team that the team decided they'd rather not have. How can we argue this team is deep? Only if they win. Right now they are just crap. What good is depth on a terrible team? So, if they turn the season around and finish the rest of the year winning a more than losing than I would agree with you that we're deeper.

They clearly don't care about the rest of the season, so it doesn't matter? All of these moves are positioning for the next few.

I mean, did they? They made some kind of decision on Siakam in the summer that led to Masai giving a blubbering apology. They didn't trade Bruce Brown, but are selling the flexibility to do so this summer. The criticism I'm making is they hedged and deferred for not much gain. When they made the Norm for Trent trade and then Lowry for Achiuwa, there was also this 'new group' and youth movement and it seemed to result in chemistry issues and no one developed. I'm definitely more 'show me' these days than 'I hope this works.' There's younger teams in the playoffs. There's teams with mixes of young and old stars in the playoffs. I guess I'd like to hear management try and justify why nothing they've done lately has worked as intended, and what makes them confident they're on the right track here.

Yes, once they realized this iteration of the team wasn't working around Scottie, they have turned 180. There is no denying it. They traded their best player and their best defensive player and acquired young players and picks. They jettison veterans to open up playing time for those young players.

Just because they didn't trade EVERY player doesn't mean they haven't fully pivoted. If there wasn't a good offer for Brown out there, something they liked... why deal him? Just because? You have a team option for next year... see what happens around draft time.

[pingpongrac]

Just checking the comments, same toxic bots spamming. My fav is the xtc account which every week spams that it was the first on the Scottie train. Copy paste bot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't agree with the stance XTC has taken on Scottie's play lately, but they're allowed to have their own opinion – especially on a topic/player they had been hyping up for a long time. IIRC, they were one of the only posters talking about Scottie potentially being the pick leading up to the draft while hyping him up big time before he was even selected at #4.

[Duffman100]

Just checking the comments, same toxic bots spamming. My fav is the xtc account which every week spams that it was the first on the Scottie train. Copy paste bot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't agree with the stance XTC has taken on Scottie's play lately, but they're allowed to have their own opinion – especially on a topic/player they had been hyping up for a long time. IIRC, they were one of the only posters talking about Scottie potentially being the pick leading up to the draft while hyping him up big time before he was even selected at #4.

I'd like to hear from that and not say, Walker Kessler

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yes, once they realized this iteration of the team wasn't working around Scottie, they have turned 180. There is no denying it. They traded their best player and their best defensive player and acquired young players and picks. They jettison veterans to open up playing time for those young players.

Just because they didn't trade EVERY player doesn't mean they haven't fully pivoted. If there wasn't a good offer for Brown out there, something they liked... why deal him? Just because? You have a team option for next year... see what happens around draft time.

Okay, but then what about this approach with Dennis?

There's no denying they made moves. We don't know when that decision was made or why. Was it when Fred turned down their money? Was it when they discovered Portland was using them as leverage for Lillard? What I've seen is just constant 'trade games' by Masai hedging and deferring and creating a lot of unhappy campers and putting a rookie head coach in a tough position. With Brown and Trent, I still see this uncertainty.

[DreamTeam09]

Yes, once they realized this iteration of the team wasn't working around Scottie, they have turned 180. There is no denying it. They traded their best player and their best defensive player and acquired young players and picks. They jettison veterans to open up playing time for those young players.

Just because they didn't trade EVERY player doesn't mean they haven't fully pivoted. If there wasn't a good offer for Brown out there, something they liked... why deal him? Just because? You have a team option for next year... see what happens around draft time.

Okay, but then what about this approach with Dennis?

There's no denying they made moves. We don't know when that decision was made or why. Was it when Fred turned down their money? Was it when they discovered Portland was using them as leverage for Lillard? What I've seen is just constant 'trade games' by Masai hedging and deferring and creating a lot of unhappy campers and putting a rookie head coach in a tough position. With Brown and Trent, I still see this uncertainty.

It was after us missing out on Lillard. He believed in Barnes OG Pascal, he knew they needed a big, and although maybe not the perfect big, that explains the Jakob trade. They tried the Kawhi approach to get another superstar in KD n Lillard but couldn't get it done, close both times tho...
Said they were playing selfish, that explains parting ways with nurse and hiring Darko
Came into this year and they started bad, 2 of those core members are free agents, so we traded em....
Him also believing in those 3 also explains why they didn't mind losing FVV for free...
For the record, I believe those 3 could exist, but they were gonna get expensive without the results to justify

[C_Money]

deepfake. doncha know they absolutely hate each other!!!

Doug Smith is fuming right now as the narrative he worked so hard to craft last year falls apart.

Doug and many other posters on this board.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The dunk by Poeltl was Yak coming for the hearts of the haters. What a joke some of you are to even think Yak wasn't worth the pick in this absolutely terrible draft. You are wasting your time on hate when you should be enjoying this masterful player at the centre position.

With KO in tow, all the doubters on here are going to look as ridiculous as the guy who said Pascal was the worst three point shooter ever.

Context matters. Play-in. Sure thing.

I'm excited for this potential future-past to come to bear.

Is this what Poeltl haters have resorted to? vague comments about context?

If you are just going to reduce this to a "we should have tanked" argument, then sure, but that would have meant 100 other things happening too

How about the context of not having a centre for two years, the fan base screaming for big man, Masai seeing a weak draft in 2024, and finding a a very talented and smart big man who has huge impact on offence and defence without dominating the ball. Is that enough context for you?

[bballsparkin]

Context matters. Play-in. Sure thing.

I'm excited for this potential future-past to come to bear.

Is this what Poeltl haters have resorted to? vague comments about context?

If you are just going to reduce this to a "we should have tanked" argument, then sure, but that would have meant 100 other things happening too

How about the context of not having a centre for two years, the fan base screaming for big man, Masai seeing a weak draft in 2024, and finding a a very talented and smart big man who has huge impact on offence and defence without dominating the ball. Is that enough context for you?

Poeltl hater? Lol, I like Jakob and think he's a good C. I don't love the protections on the pick. Lets hope you are right and they fight for a play-in because the East is bad. Convey the pick so we don't have to go through this next year. Should they continue to lose I'll be rooting for lottery luck though.

[NBA Sheady]

Scottie at the point with 8 assists and 1 TO.