NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[jordanwilliams6]

Luka has to be 3rd and pushing SGA for second position.

[Hobo4President]

Shai had a great season, but he is a tier or two bellow Luka. Today Shai -31, Luka +18 and doing whatever he wanted.

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If you're gonna use +/- to show Luka is a tier or two above Shai, Shai is +386 (with the second highest average +/- in the league) for the season, Luka is +86. In fact Shai beats Luka in every advanced, impact and raw box stat besides PPG, RPG and APG. It's quite easy to make the case Shai has been better than Luka this season, if you want to argue Luka is a better player because he's proven in the playoffs and Shai isn't that's another thing.

[Wolfgang630]

Luka has to be 3rd and pushing SGA for second position.

An 8th seeder should not be pushing for any 2nd position

[Bob8]

Luka has to be 3rd and pushing SGA for second position.

An 8th seeder should not be pushing for any 2nd position

If they have few wins more and were 5th while OKC is 4th, Luka could be pushing for 2nd?

[iggymcfrack]

Luka has to be 3rd and pushing SGA for second position.

He ranks between 4th and 12th in the advanced stats, has the worst on/off of any candidate, and even with the win today, his team’s still in play-in position. Why pray tell does he “have to” be in the top 3? Because he does the flashiest stuff when you watch the ball? I really can’t see any coherent case for him ahead of Jokić, SGA, or Giannis, and I wouldn’t have him ahead of Kawhi either.

[Bob8]

Luka has to be 3rd and pushing SGA for second position.

He ranks between 4th and 12th in the advanced stats, has the worst on/off of anny candidate, and even with the win today, his team’s still in play-in position. Why pray tell does he “have to” be in the top 3? Because he does the flashiest stuff when you watch the ball? I really can’t see any coherent case for him ahead of Jokić, SGA, or Giannis, and I wouldn’t have him ahead of Kawhi either.

Maybe team position has something's to do with Mavs injuries? OKC has played with the same starting lineup the most times in Nba, Mavs the least. Kyrie missing 22 games alone.

Like things are looking today, Mavs with pretty easy schedule and if they stay healthy, they can easily finish 5th and OKC 4th. And I doubt very much that OKC would be a favourite in that series. And I doubt even less than those +/- will have any kind of meaning in that series.

[MyTake_1]

Luka will not be MVP this year, but he will get his, that boy is a generational talent just like Joker.
SGA, and Embiid are amazing talents but not like the above two.
Ant is the one I am watching, will he be in the first or the second group? Time will tell.

[Apz]

SGA most overrated player in the nba. Okc had had the same starting lineup 46 times this season, mavs had i think it was 29 different due injuries. Maybe okc stay healthy all season, but i doubt it. Only like 5 wins more then mavs, i wouldnt be surprised if mavs end up ahead of okc

[Woodsanity]

1. Jokic
2. Sga
3. Luka

Its possible luka pushes sga down

[Special_Puppy]

Denver Net Rating with Jokic on the Floor: +11.30
Mavericks Net Rating with Luka+Kyrie on the Floor: +5.35
OKC Net Rating with SGA on the Floor: +9.31

Denver:https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612743&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=203999&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

Mavericks:https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612742&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1629029,202681&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

OKC:https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1628983&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

[agentofatlas]

SGA most overrated player in the nba. Okc had had the same starting lineup 46 times this season, mavs had i think it was 29 different due injuries. Maybe okc stay healthy all season, but i doubt it. Only like 5 wins more then mavs, i wouldnt be surprised if mavs end up ahead of okc

Kinda hoping Dallas gets OKC in the playoffs. Probably one of the only teams they're actually match well in size.

Also SGA vs Luka would be good.

[Gatorade Sax]

Luka has to be 3rd and pushing SGA for second position.

He ranks between 4th and 12th in the advanced stats, has the worst on/off of anny candidate, and even with the win today, his team’s still in play-in position. Why pray tell does he “have to” be in the top 3? Because he does the flashiest stuff when you watch the ball? I really can’t see any coherent case for him ahead of Jokić, SGA, or Giannis, and I wouldn’t have him ahead of Kawhi either.

Maybe team position has something's to do with Mavs injuries? OKC has played with the same starting lineup the most times in Nba, Mavs the least. Kyrie missing 22 games alone.

Like things are looking today, Mavs with pretty easy schedule and if they stay healthy, they can easily finish 5th and OKC 4th. And I doubt very much that OKC would be a favourite in that series. And I doubt even less than those +/- will have any kind of meaning in that series.

There’s been plenty of chat about the ‘fit’ of Kyrie and Luka together, but guarantee nobody actually wants them as a matchup in the playoffs. Both guys have had big games and big moments in the playoffs..if they’re healthy, and you have to play them in a series, it’s a massive problem to solve.

[Bob8]

Denver Net Rating with Jokic on the Floor: +11.30
Mavericks Net Rating with Luka+Kyrie on the Floor: +5.35
OKC Net Rating with SGA on the Floor: +9.31

Denver:https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612743&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=203999&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

Mavericks:https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612742&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1629029,202681&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

OKC:https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612760&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=All&PlayerIds=1628983&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

And we have seen yesterday, how useless those stats are. When Luka and Kyrie start to continually play together, I hope Mavs finally get break with injuries, and other starters return, they were without 2 yesterday, those numbers will be totally different. I wouldn't be too surprised, if they end better than OKC, who had 0 injuries problems.

I believe Mavs have played with 30 different starting lineups, if that stops, nobody will want to meet Mavs in round 1. And Mavs would gladly play with OKC.

[moderndarwin]

It’s pretty crazy that Steph is not even an option on this poll.

He’s clearly still the face of the league.

Give the man some respect.

[Infinite Llamas]

It’s pretty crazy that Steph is not even an option on this poll.

He’s clearly still the face of the league.

Give the man some respect.

His team is a borderline playin team.

It isn’t that deep.

[juanc]

Shai had a great season, but he is a tier or two bellow Luka. Today Shai -31, Luka +18 and doing whatever he wanted.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

If you're gonna use +/- to show Luka is a tier or two above Shai, Shai is +386 (with the second highest average +/- in the league) for the season, Luka is +86. In fact Shai beats Luka in every advanced, impact and raw box stat besides PPG, RPG and APG. It's quite easy to make the case Shai has been better than Luka this season, if you want to argue Luka is a better player because he's proven in the playoffs and Shai isn't that's another thing.

About the Luka on/off. The Mavs most used lineup this year has played under 100 minutes(for example the Nuggests starters have played 647 minutes and have a net rating of +13. Bucks 530 min, net rating +15, OKC 550min,...). Brunson, Randle, OG, Hartenstein, Donte have played 180 mins together, that's 2 times more than the Mavs most used lineup. I would say that it's hard to put great on/off numbers without the consistency. Kyrie has missed half of the season, DLive also, Maxi missing almost the whole season,...
The Mavs are slowly getting healthy, let's see how those on/off numbers look when they play some time together.
Oh and those are NBA.com stats

[oldtimer28]

1. Jokic
2. Sga
3. Luka

Its possible luka pushes sga down

Good list.

Where does Dallas need to finish for Luka to win?

Jokic is amazing. Deserves last three years in a way but obviously Embid last year and possibly sga and Doncic have cases this year.

[Gatorade Sax]

1. Jokic
2. Sga
3. Luka

Its possible luka pushes sga down

Good list.

Where does Dallas need to finish for Luka to win?

Jokic is amazing. Deserves last three years in a way but obviously Embid last year and possibly sga and Doncic have cases this year.

Top 2 in the west and he’s in with a chance. No record, no case unfortunately.

[Chokic]

Luka will not be MVP this year, but he will get his, that boy is a generational talent just like Joker.
SGA, and Embiid are amazing talents but not like the above two.
Ant is the one I am watching, will he be in the first or the second group? Time will tell.

How is Embiid a tier below luka when he's better than jokic?

[timO]

Luka has to be 3rd and pushing SGA for second position.