2023-2024 Regular Season Game 53: Chicago Bulls (25-27) at Orlando Magic (28-24) - 7pm

[VFX]

Sorry not sorry if that’s considered “whining” because you can’t think outside of win or loss column results.

Etc.

I’ve enjoyed the majority of this season (especially the beginning of the season). Wins are always better obviously and especially against good competition.

It’s not directed specifically at you 100%.

The issue I have, and why I’m starting to care FAR less after this trade deadline, is how seriously I should take this team. Anyone can just turn on the TV and watch a game and go “welp!” or “yay!” and turn it off again not giving it a second thought. Nobody here is that person.

This game is won in the front office and with talent. It always has been and will be. The offense was so laughably bad at the end of this game it’s criminal that moves have not been made. I’m not taking this out on you, I just don’t see a reason to care or take it seriously anymore. The next step will be “this offseason we will see what happens” lol no… that was last trade deadline.

[SOUL]

He’s just incapable of running offensive sets because he lacks the roster to do it.

Hey, we're not disagreeing there. He's already shown an ability to get them to play together, and to play a top 5 defense. That's **** a lot of coaches can NEVER do.. the FO doing their job over the next year(s) for a capable offense is a scary proposition, but for now, I take solace in the fact that we're not in a position where we're screwed, a la trading every prospect away and being stuck with Fournier/AG/Vuc as a core.

But... I also can't get gaslighted (not from you, just in general) into the many different iterations of the team a majority of posters wanted throughout the year.

Orlando Magic 2023-2024 thus far

- Suggs was thought to be a bench guy coming into the year because of his past shooting issues until he won the job
- People were clamoring for Gary to start over Suggs because of his first 4 games of shooting like 60/50 and last year's shooting, citing advanced stats as the reason as well.
- Wendell and Fultz go down, we expect a bit of a losing streak
- AB and Goga starting and the bench start to kill it, even Knightro, who is kinda out on Ingles, said he wishes he could clone him and make him younger because of how important he was to us
- At some point, we start losing with AB and Goga and people want us to start Ingles or Cole or Moe because our shooting and offense isn't great.
- People were "bragging" how our team wasn't even fully healthy down 2 starters (Fultz and WCJ) and we had a great record.
- Whispers of "Why isn't Mose playing Houstan more?" because he shot 60/60 in VERY limited minutes the first month
- He actually gets to play and shoots 30/27 and then 38/28, which I didn't even mind, we needed a volume guy
- Goga starts to taper off a bit and people are antsy for WCJ to return.
- Paolo starts going off, we start hitting threes as a team at a crazy rate, people ask why we don't always play like this, and it's because we're playing 3rd stringers who don't drive the ball or play great defense.
- Futlz is back and is broken offensively, WCJ comes back and then struggles his first week and people are out on him
- WCJ then has a crazy week with the best efficient in the NBA, and people are still blaming him because we're still losing.
- We start to realize Isaac is probably our best/most important big but capped by minutes.
- Our bench (even now) falls off a cliff, and we can't always rely on Ingles, Cole or Moe like we did the first month or two
- Franz and others come back healthy, we start winning again as a full team (shocker).


We're now at a weird spot where people are wanting the players to play that were playing during the win streak, but also wanting young guys to play more, while also wanting us to trade and upgrade our bench that was literally the reason we were winning those games (+ Goga), but win throughout all of this, which is a bit of a hard ask.

The common sense of it all makes perfect sense to me as in what to upgrade and who to upgrade, it's just hard taking lineup opinions serious from a fanbase that has called for about 12 different people starting over the course of the season.

And we still have posters who don't like Franz or Suggs, so maybe I'm the crazy one!

[eyriq]

Read on Twitter

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[VFX]

He’s just incapable of running offensive sets because he lacks the roster to do it.

Hey, we're not disagreeing there. He's already shown an ability to get them to play together, and to play a top 5 defense. That's **** a lot of coaches can NEVER do.. the FO doing their job over the next year(s) for a capable offense is a scary proposition, but for now, I take solace in the fact that we're not in a position where we're screwed, a la trading every prospect away and being stuck with Fournier/AG/Vuc as a core.

But... I also can't get gaslighted (not from you, just in general) into the many different iterations of the team a majority of posters wanted throughout the year.

Orlando Magic 2023-2024 thus far

- Suggs was thought to be a bench guy coming into the year because of his past shooting issues until he won the job
- People were clamoring for Gary to start over Suggs because of his first 4 games of shooting like 60/50 and last year's shooting, citing advanced stats as the reason as well.
- Wendell and Fultz go down, we expect a bit of a losing streak
- AB and Goga starting and the bench start to kill it, even Knightro, who is kinda out on Ingles, said he wishes he could clone him and make him younger because of how important he was to us
- At some point, we start losing with AB and Goga and people want us to start Ingles or Cole or Moe because our shooting and offense isn't great.
- People were "bragging" how our team wasn't even fully healthy down 2 starters (Fultz and WCJ) and we had a great record.
- Whispers of "Why isn't Mose playing Houstan more?" because he shot 60/60 in VERY limited minutes the first month
- He actually gets to play and shoots 30/27 and then 38/28, which I didn't even mind, we needed a volume guy
- Goga starts to taper off a bit and people are antsy for WCJ to return.
- Paolo starts going off, we start hitting threes as a team at a crazy rate, people ask why we don't always play like this, and it's because we're playing 3rd stringers who don't drive the ball or play great defense.
- Futlz is back and is broken offensively, WCJ comes back and then struggles his first week and people are out on him
- WCJ then has a crazy week with the best efficient in the NBA, and people are still blaming him because we're still losing.
- We start to realize Isaac is probably our best/most important big but capped by minutes.
- Our bench (even now) falls off a cliff, and we can't always rely on Ingles, Cole or Moe like we did the first month or two
- Franz and others come back healthy, we start winning again as a full team (shocker).


We're now at a weird spot where people are wanting the players to play that were playing during the win streak, but also wanting young guys to play more, while also wanting us to trade and upgrade our bench that was literally the reason we were winning those games (+ Goga), but win throughout all of this, which is a bit of a hard ask.

The common sense of it all makes perfect sense to me as in what to upgrade and who to upgrade, it's just hard taking lineup opinions serious from a fanbase that has called for about 12 different people starting over the course of the season.

And we still have posters who don't like Franz or Suggs, so maybe I'm the crazy one!

I mean I get it, but at the same time we won a **** load of games against legitimate competition with AB and Goga and now we are squeaking by and losing games with Fultz and Carter, then I’m told “that’s just how it is bro” like patterns aren’t a thing.

Now is that an indication that we don’t need better supporting offense? No. But it’s a clear indication that the players you DO have that have proven to win are better than the guys they replaced IN A TEAM CONCEPT and roster composition.

Too many fans have this idea that player X has these stats so he’s better than player Y regardless of situation or roster. Well it isn’t the case. The components matter and the composition has to make sense.

Yeah it’s not as bleak as watching Vuc/AG/Fournier and mysteriously a lot of the posters that loved that core disappeared. There were also people that said no moves needed to be made with those guys and everything was perfect. Maybe I’m tired of this organization being run like a small market when it doesn’t need to be.

[zaymon]

This game is our season in a nutshell and reason why we were frustrated after trade deadline (i was also but i rationalized since).
Even Mosley confirmed that we have no starting level point guard and center. If Mosley got enough of WCJ and Fultz experience its beginning if the end for them. Carter will be propably better in the next few games but he is such a loser my god...
Good thing is that our improvement areas are so glaring you just cant miss them from space. I am propably this front office biggest fan here, but if they dont act in the offseason i am out.
ps. FRANZ WAGNER IS KING !! If he keeps going he could be all nba

[KillMonger]

it's funny seeing bulls some bulls fans being salty about franz....."he would be our best player right now" "he's the guy we would've been building around".....hilarious

[SOUL]

The big issue is most of our team is hot and cold and unreliable one month and the most important thing to the team the next month, which makes "ideal and optimal lineups" hard if the fans aren't sure who should or shouldn't be playing after a different month ends. Not only that, most of our guys fit very specific archetypes that aren't easy plug and play things like "reliable shooter" or "floor spacing point guard"

It's like, "rookie raw PG with good POA defense and loose handles" or "great emotional scoring big that gets exposed on defense without Isaac" or "a veteran forward who gives **** effort with bad turnovers sometimes but can also run the offense better than anyone else" or "a 6'1 SG in a PG's body who turns it over stupidly twice a game but can also win you games when nobody else is shooting well" or "low usage big man who isn't spacing the floor for a starved offensive team but has high defensive impact".

I think Mose is working pretty well around the parameters of actually being in the locker room and intimately knowing the chemistry and what is humanly expected of a coach tasked with dealing with human beings that play under him, all with different strengths/weaknesses and no clear cut 35+ minute guys every night outside of 2-3 (sometimes Suggs, Isaac would count if he actually played that many). The FO is ultimately tasked with the decisions that they have to make to make the team better, but it doesn't mean that Paolo or Franz won't be bummed, sad, or mad when Fultz leaves, even if it's better for their career.

I feel like the closing unit most night is showing Mose's cards. He wants to win and the players do too. Most nights you'll have at least 3 or 4 of Paolo/Franz/Suggs/Isaac and a random other player who is playing well or matches up well.

[eyriq]

The four factors
Win eFG%
Lose TOV%
Wash ORB%
Win FT/FGA

And our offensive rating was +7.9 points better than our average

This was a win because of the offense. Franz had an offensive rating of 147 on 29.2% usage. He's is killing it. Paolo was 125 on 21.1%.

[eyriq]

Three below average offenses, Heat, Spurs, and Bulls, have exceeded our average defensive rating. OKC could cook us.

[Last Guardian]

European players are usually pretty loyal but i wouldn't blame him one bit for choosing money since he's playing for minimum. He's made over $15 million in his career so he could choose where he's familiar and happy (plus no state tax or snow) over $$$.

I don’t see Goga coming back. He should get money somewhere else where he is not third string. And it would be foolish for the Magic to pay for third center when they have needs on the perimeter.

You can not POSSIBLY be serious right now. WE NEED A DEFENSIVE CENTER! WE NEED ONE! Goga should be starting over that absolute fraud of a player in WCJ, who has not once made a winning play in his life. Yet Goga comes in and makes like 10 winning plays down the stretch and completely changes the game.

hoooo boy there is some delusion going on here.

Yes his best play was the soft foul on Derozan which let them tie it and send it to overtime. Yes almost costing us the game was such a winning play!

[eyriq]

I don’t see Goga coming back. He should get money somewhere else where he is not third string. And it would be foolish for the Magic to pay for third center when they have needs on the perimeter.

You can not POSSIBLY be serious right now. WE NEED A DEFENSIVE CENTER! WE NEED ONE! Goga should be starting over that absolute fraud of a player in WCJ, who has not once made a winning play in his life. Yet Goga comes in and makes like 10 winning plays down the stretch and completely changes the game.

hoooo boy there is some delusion going on here.

Yes his best play was the soft foul on Derozan which let them tie it and send it to overtime. Yes almost costing us the game was such a winning play!

Haha, that play was definitely a wet fart and deflated the Goga hype.

[VFX]

The big issue is most of our team is hot and cold and unreliable one month and the most important thing to the team the next month, which makes "ideal and optimal lineups" hard if the fans aren't sure who should or shouldn't be playing after a different month ends. Not only that, most of our guys fit very specific archetypes that aren't easy plug and play things like "reliable shooter" or "floor spacing point guard"

It's like, "rookie raw PG with good POA defense and loose handles" or "great emotional scoring big that gets exposed on defense without Isaac" or "a veteran forward who gives **** effort with bad turnovers sometimes but can also run the offense better than anyone else" or "a 6'1 SG in a PG's body who turns it over stupidly twice a game but can also win you games when nobody else is shooting well" or "low usage big man who isn't spacing the floor for a starved offensive team but has high defensive impact".

I think Mose is working pretty well around the parameters of actually being in the locker room and intimately knowing the chemistry and what is humanly expected of a coach tasked with dealing with human beings that play under him, all with different strengths/weaknesses and no clear cut 35+ minute guys every night outside of 2-3 (sometimes Suggs, Isaac would count if he actually played that many). The FO is ultimately tasked with the decisions that they have to make to make the team better, but it doesn't mean that Paolo or Franz won't be bummed, sad, or mad when Fultz leaves, even if it's better for their career.

I feel like the closing unit most night is showing Mose's cards. He wants to win and the players do too. Most nights you'll have at least 3 or 4 of Paolo/Franz/Suggs/Isaac and a random other player who is playing well or matches up well.

The Carter and Fultz thing replacing Goga and AB comes down to efficient offense at the expense of defense.

The combinations of Paolo/Franz/Suggs/Isaac all have pretty clearly defined roles here. We know what they are doing on the court and usually if one is "off" the other two can help offensively/defensively. Fultz and Carter are complete wildcards on offense, which is becoming more apparent that its the only side of the floor they can play, usually inefficiently.

Goga and AB don't need to take away possessions from the other guys much like Suggs doesn't really need to in order to be effective, should he be off. In other words, just let Franz and Paolo cook and get the **** out of the way. It's a different conversation entirely if AB was Tyrese Haliburton and Goga was Embiid. It's just choosing the lesser of the inefficient on wasted possessions for Mosely.

This is why the 2024 trade deadline, 2023 offseason, and 2023 trade deadline are annoying asf. You know what is wrong, but you just choose to not address the issues when assets can be moved around to build a more complete roster while you watch Franz jacking up 3's at the end of a game to close out the Bulls at home in February OR Paolo crashing into 3 bodies under a basket hoping to god he draws a foul. Nah **** it... retain assets that make no sense because we are satisfied with inefficient basketball and players know whats best because everyone is friends with each other.

[Skybox]

The big issue is most of our team is hot and cold and unreliable one month and the most important thing to the team the next month, which makes "ideal and optimal lineups" hard if the fans aren't sure who should or shouldn't be playing after a different month ends. Not only that, most of our guys fit very specific archetypes that aren't easy plug and play things like "reliable shooter" or "floor spacing point guard"

It's like, "rookie raw PG with good POA defense and loose handles" or "great emotional scoring big that gets exposed on defense without Isaac" or "a veteran forward who gives **** effort with bad turnovers sometimes but can also run the offense better than anyone else" or "a 6'1 SG in a PG's body who turns it over stupidly twice a game but can also win you games when nobody else is shooting well" or "low usage big man who isn't spacing the floor for a starved offensive team but has high defensive impact".

I think Mose is working pretty well around the parameters of actually being in the locker room and intimately knowing the chemistry and what is humanly expected of a coach tasked with dealing with human beings that play under him, all with different strengths/weaknesses and no clear cut 35+ minute guys every night outside of 2-3 (sometimes Suggs, Isaac would count if he actually played that many). The FO is ultimately tasked with the decisions that they have to make to make the team better, but it doesn't mean that Paolo or Franz won't be bummed, sad, or mad when Fultz leaves, even if it's better for their career.

I feel like the closing unit most night is showing Mose's cards. He wants to win and the players do too. Most nights you'll have at least 3 or 4 of Paolo/Franz/Suggs/Isaac and a random other player who is playing well or matches up well.

The Carter and Fultz thing replacing Goga and AB comes down to efficient offense at the expense of defense.

The combinations of Paolo/Franz/Suggs/Isaac all have pretty clearly defined roles here. We know what they are doing on the court and usually if one is "off" the other two can help offensively/defensively. Fultz and Carter are complete wildcards on offense, which is becoming more apparent that its the only side of the floor they can play, usually inefficiently.

Goga and AB don't need to take away possessions from the other guys much like Suggs doesn't really need to in order to be effective, should he be off. In other words, just let Franz and Paolo cook and get the **** out of the way. It's a different conversation entirely if AB was Tyrese Haliburton and Goga was Embiid. It's just choosing the lesser of the inefficient on wasted possessions for Mosely.

This is why the 2024 trade deadline, 2023 offseason, and 2023 trade deadline are annoying asf. You know what is wrong, but you just choose to not address the issues when assets can be moved around to build a more complete roster while you watch Franz jacking up 3's at the end of a game to close out the Bulls at home in February OR Paolo crashing into 3 bodies under a basket hoping to god he draws a foul. Nah **** it... retain assets that make no sense because we are satisfied with inefficient basketball and players know whats best because everyone is friends with each other.

I threw up a little in my mouth when you pointed out (correctly) that Fultz was chosen for offensive efficiency. That's the saddest true statement one could make regarding Mose's options with this roster.

I agree with your whole post...we could have gone BIG, ALL-IN WIN_NOW, SHORT-TERM, or BAND-AID, or any other type of improvement at PG...we did none of the above and AB only gets to watch modern PGs on the opposing teams - just for his development and the investment and belief we have in AB...we should have gotten him a role model. Ingles is the closest thing, but it's not as easy to mentor if you're not really that formidable every night. Ingles has a significant mentor role that is valuable...but anyone on the scale from FVV to Tyus Jones would have been significant for the whole team, but specifically for our raw but intriguing potential PGOTF.

[GelbeWand09]

The big issue is most of our team is hot and cold and unreliable one month and the most important thing to the team the next month, which makes "ideal and optimal lineups" hard if the fans aren't sure who should or shouldn't be playing after a different month ends. Not only that, most of our guys fit very specific archetypes that aren't easy plug and play things like "reliable shooter" or "floor spacing point guard"

It's like, "rookie raw PG with good POA defense and loose handles" or "great emotional scoring big that gets exposed on defense without Isaac" or "a veteran forward who gives **** effort with bad turnovers sometimes but can also run the offense better than anyone else" or "a 6'1 SG in a PG's body who turns it over stupidly twice a game but can also win you games when nobody else is shooting well" or "low usage big man who isn't spacing the floor for a starved offensive team but has high defensive impact".

I think Mose is working pretty well around the parameters of actually being in the locker room and intimately knowing the chemistry and what is humanly expected of a coach tasked with dealing with human beings that play under him, all with different strengths/weaknesses and no clear cut 35+ minute guys every night outside of 2-3 (sometimes Suggs, Isaac would count if he actually played that many). The FO is ultimately tasked with the decisions that they have to make to make the team better, but it doesn't mean that Paolo or Franz won't be bummed, sad, or mad when Fultz leaves, even if it's better for their career.

I feel like the closing unit most night is showing Mose's cards. He wants to win and the players do too. Most nights you'll have at least 3 or 4 of Paolo/Franz/Suggs/Isaac and a random other player who is playing well or matches up well.

The Carter and Fultz thing replacing Goga and AB comes down to efficient offense at the expense of defense.

The combinations of Paolo/Franz/Suggs/Isaac all have pretty clearly defined roles here. We know what they are doing on the court and usually if one is "off" the other two can help offensively/defensively. Fultz and Carter are complete wildcards on offense, which is becoming more apparent that its the only side of the floor they can play, usually inefficiently.

Goga and AB don't need to take away possessions from the other guys much like Suggs doesn't really need to in order to be effective, should he be off. In other words, just let Franz and Paolo cook and get the **** out of the way. It's a different conversation entirely if AB was Tyrese Haliburton and Goga was Embiid. It's just choosing the lesser of the inefficient on wasted possessions for Mosely.

This is why the 2024 trade deadline, 2023 offseason, and 2023 trade deadline are annoying asf. You know what is wrong, but you just choose to not address the issues when assets can be moved around to build a more complete roster while you watch Franz jacking up 3's at the end of a game to close out the Bulls at home in February OR Paolo crashing into 3 bodies under a basket hoping to god he draws a foul. Nah **** it... retain assets that make no sense because we are satisfied with inefficient basketball and players know whats best because everyone is friends with each other.

I threw up a little in my mouth when you pointed out (correctly) that Fultz was chosen for offensive efficiency. That's the saddest true statement one could make regarding Mose's options with this roster.

I agree with your whole post...we could have gone BIG, ALL-IN WIN_NOW, SHORT-TERM, or BAND-AID, or any other type of improvement at PG...we did none of the above and AB only gets to watch modern PGs on the opposing teams - just for his development and the investment and belief we have in AB...we should have gotten him a role model. Ingles is the closest thing, but it's not as easy to mentor if you're not really that formidable every night. Ingles has a significant mentor role that is valuable...but anyone on the scale from FVV to Tyus Jones would have been significant for the whole team, but specifically for our raw but intriguing potential PGOTF.

A underrated reason we should have made at least a balancing move is Isaac. We witness one of the rare healthy JI seasons. Try to make the best out of it & maybe get to the 2nd round.
If he is injured next year again, all the internal growth goes to waste too, because what you gain of other players getting a bit better you loose in losing Isaacs defense.

[TheChaser]

The secret is playing against our former core.

3-0 against Vuc
2-0 against Fournier
2-0 against AG

The avengers?

[Optimus_Steel]

Franz is a load
Paolo is a load

Our future is in good shape.

[Rainwater]

European players are usually pretty loyal but i wouldn't blame him one bit for choosing money since he's playing for minimum. He's made over $15 million in his career so he could choose where he's familiar and happy (plus no state tax or snow) over $$$.

I don’t see Goga coming back. He should get money somewhere else where he is not third string. And it would be foolish for the Magic to pay for third center when they have needs on the perimeter.

You can not POSSIBLY be serious right now. WE NEED A DEFENSIVE CENTER! WE NEED ONE! Goga should be starting over that absolute fraud of a player in WCJ, who has not once made a winning play in his life. Yet Goga comes in and makes like 10 winning plays down the stretch and completely changes the game.

hoooo boy there is some delusion going on here.

The delusion is that you currently don’t see that Goga is the third center on this team. There is a difference between what you believe the team needs to do and what is happening in real time.

Goga barely plays, he only plays depending on the situation or the feel of the game. Coach felt like Goga would make a difference yesterday so he played but prior to that Goga has been awol. WCJ actually starts. Ever since WCJ has returned Goga has rarely seen the floor.

I just don’t see why the Magic would resign a third stringer to a large contract when he barely plays especially when the team has bigger needs on the perimeter (this team can’t shoot). And I don’t understand why Goga would stay when he can get more money and more time somewhere else.

I feel like your delusion is that you don’t see what Goga’s situation is currently. You are so stuck on the defensive center idea you don’t see that he is currently a third string center. If the Magic really believe they needed a defensive center Goga would be starting but he is not. This is the reality of the situation.

[JF5]

If anyone saw the end of the game. I think it's obvious why Goga doesn't play as much. That was great defense. But good lord that offense was just so bad with him on the court. You put him on a team like the Suns or Kings he'd look so much better.

[Bensational]

Orlando Magic 2023-2024 thus far

- Suggs was thought to be a bench guy coming into the year because of his past shooting issues until he won the job
- People were clamoring for Gary to start over Suggs because of his first 4 games of shooting like 60/50 and last year's shooting, citing advanced stats as the reason as well.
- Wendell and Fultz go down, we expect a bit of a losing streak
- AB and Goga starting and the bench start to kill it, even Knightro, who is kinda out on Ingles, said he wishes he could clone him and make him younger because of how important he was to us
- At some point, we start losing with AB and Goga and people want us to start Ingles or Cole or Moe because our shooting and offense isn't great.
- People were "bragging" how our team wasn't even fully healthy down 2 starters (Fultz and WCJ) and we had a great record.
- Whispers of "Why isn't Mose playing Houstan more?" because he shot 60/60 in VERY limited minutes the first month
- He actually gets to play and shoots 30/27 and then 38/28, which I didn't even mind, we needed a volume guy
- Goga starts to taper off a bit and people are antsy for WCJ to return.
- Paolo starts going off, we start hitting threes as a team at a crazy rate, people ask why we don't always play like this, and it's because we're playing 3rd stringers who don't drive the ball or play great defense.
- Futlz is back and is broken offensively, WCJ comes back and then struggles his first week and people are out on him
- WCJ then has a crazy week with the best efficient in the NBA, and people are still blaming him because we're still losing.
- We start to realize Isaac is probably our best/most important big but capped by minutes.
- Our bench (even now) falls off a cliff, and we can't always rely on Ingles, Cole or Moe like we did the first month or two
- Franz and others come back healthy, we start winning again as a full team (shocker).


We're now at a weird spot where people are wanting the players to play that were playing during the win streak, but also wanting young guys to play more, while also wanting us to trade and upgrade our bench that was literally the reason we were winning those games (+ Goga), but win throughout all of this, which is a bit of a hard ask.

The common sense of it all makes perfect sense to me as in what to upgrade and who to upgrade, it's just hard taking lineup opinions serious from a fanbase that has called for about 12 different people starting over the course of the season.

And we still have posters who don't like Franz or Suggs, so maybe I'm the crazy one!

Excellent summary! It really highlights what this team is - a young work in progress, demonstrating the value of patience and evaluation.

I like that Mosley still gets creative with his lineups and rotations. I like that on any given night any guy 1-12 could have a big night for us.

Given all the variety and different ways we’ve had success, I find it frustrating when people try to suggest there’s a single best iteration of the team, or even pecking order. The idea that suggesting we play Goga over Wendell is upsetting to so many posters is bizarre to me. If Wendell is in form I’m happy for him to be on the court, but if he’s being a soft quitter like Vuc? Get him the f— off the court and give one of our other talented bigs a chance. And that stands for all of our guys.

[ibraheim718]

Orlando Magic 2023-2024 thus far

- Suggs was thought to be a bench guy coming into the year because of his past shooting issues until he won the job
- People were clamoring for Gary to start over Suggs because of his first 4 games of shooting like 60/50 and last year's shooting, citing advanced stats as the reason as well.
- Wendell and Fultz go down, we expect a bit of a losing streak
- AB and Goga starting and the bench start to kill it, even Knightro, who is kinda out on Ingles, said he wishes he could clone him and make him younger because of how important he was to us
- At some point, we start losing with AB and Goga and people want us to start Ingles or Cole or Moe because our shooting and offense isn't great.
- People were "bragging" how our team wasn't even fully healthy down 2 starters (Fultz and WCJ) and we had a great record.
- Whispers of "Why isn't Mose playing Houstan more?" because he shot 60/60 in VERY limited minutes the first month
- He actually gets to play and shoots 30/27 and then 38/28, which I didn't even mind, we needed a volume guy
- Goga starts to taper off a bit and people are antsy for WCJ to return.
- Paolo starts going off, we start hitting threes as a team at a crazy rate, people ask why we don't always play like this, and it's because we're playing 3rd stringers who don't drive the ball or play great defense.
- Futlz is back and is broken offensively, WCJ comes back and then struggles his first week and people are out on him
- WCJ then has a crazy week with the best efficient in the NBA, and people are still blaming him because we're still losing.
- We start to realize Isaac is probably our best/most important big but capped by minutes.
- Our bench (even now) falls off a cliff, and we can't always rely on Ingles, Cole or Moe like we did the first month or two
- Franz and others come back healthy, we start winning again as a full team (shocker).


We're now at a weird spot where people are wanting the players to play that were playing during the win streak, but also wanting young guys to play more, while also wanting us to trade and upgrade our bench that was literally the reason we were winning those games (+ Goga), but win throughout all of this, which is a bit of a hard ask.

The common sense of it all makes perfect sense to me as in what to upgrade and who to upgrade, it's just hard taking lineup opinions serious from a fanbase that has called for about 12 different people starting over the course of the season.

And we still have posters who don't like Franz or Suggs, so maybe I'm the crazy one!

Excellent summary! It really highlights what this team is - a young work in progress, demonstrating the value of patience and evaluation.

I like that Mosley still gets creative with his lineups and rotations. I like that on any given night any guy 1-12 could have a big night for us.

Given all the variety and different ways we’ve had success, I find it frustrating when people try to suggest there’s a single best iteration of the team, or even pecking order. The idea that suggesting we play Goga over Wendell is upsetting to so many posters is bizarre to me. If Wendell is in form I’m happy for him to be on the court, but if he’s being a soft quitter like Vuc? Get him the f— off the court and give one of our other talented bigs a chance. And that stands for all of our guys.

That kind of stuff doesn't work in the playoffs. I'm just saying.. he can't do what he did last night and get away with it come playoff time. There was no reason for that game last night to go into overtime.. none. Cole was getting cooked and running around on defense like a chicken with his head cut off. That game doesn't go into overtime if he's guarding his guy Ayo. But instead he was caught cheating towards the bucket to help guard no one.. then got back to Ayo too late.. Ayo goes around him and dunks after Ayo had just beat him off the dribble and layed it off to Vuc for a dunk.

Cole was getting his but he was also giving it to. It's fine to tinker with rotations and line ups in the beginning of the season but Mosley better get his stuff together because after the all star break things are going to get more serious. If the Magic miss the play-in or even lose in the play-in his seat will start getting warm especially if they don't get a top 6 seed next season. Because when push comes to shove the coach gets fired not the players and he's the coach.