[WOJ] Bojan Bogdanović and Alec Burks to the New York Knicks (Grimes + two seconds)

[cgf]

why did they report the deal as if Burks was the main part of the deal lol

Because he's the one Thibs will actually play in the playoffs

This feels like a mistake unless one of DDV/Hart is hot in the playoffs, but I'll keep an openmind and wait to judge until we see how things work out, this fo has earned the benefit of the doubt from me

[cgf]

I hope the Knick front office had a discussion about Bojan with Thibs before this trade. He really can't guard anyone at this stage in his career.

I half expect Achiuwa to take his PT in the playoffs, so hopefully he can help keep Brundle fresh until then

[JeffFosters]

I can understand moving on from Grimes but a 35 year Bojan who can't defend anyone doesn't exactly seem like a guy Thibs will automatically trust to play more in the playoffs. Brunson and Randle if healthy will both be high minute guys and neither of them defend so i'm not sure how much Thibs will want to play Bojan with them. I look at Bojan as a great regular season addition that helps their depth and lack of scoring from the bench but I could easily see Thibs limiting his minutes in the playoffs.

I agree with you, and yet the Knicks thought Bogie was a better option for the bench in the playoffs than Grimes was. It says a lot. The Knicks do actually need some more spacing in their line ups at times so I can see Bogie getting 15-20 a game.

Again you are assuming that this trade was about the playoffs. It could just as easily be about keeping guys from getting burnt out before the playoffs.

And Thibs gave a banged up Grimes 27mpg last spring, if Bogey can only give us 15-20mpg that that would be evidence that Thibs doesn’t trust Bojan as much as he did Quentin.

This trade is absolutely in part about the playoffs. Bogie is versatile and can play the 3 and the 4. The Knicks will be able to trot out Bogie, OG and Randle line ups that will be big and switchable. Bogie is also an elite shooter, has been in big games and can close games too. Burks is a great 9th man, has been shooting it well and can create a little.

Not only that but Bogie’s contract for next season is great trade ballast so the Knicks keep their flexibility. This trade is a slam dunk.

[JeffFosters]

I hope the Knick front office had a discussion about Bojan with Thibs before this trade. He really can't guard anyone at this stage in his career.

I half expect Achiuwa to take his PT in the playoffs, so hopefully he can help keep Brundle fresh until then

I watched Bogie for years in Indy and I’ve watched too many pistons games this season, absolutely no team ever hunts him. He’s got this rep for being a bad defender but it’s not really true. He’s big and physical and can guard 3s and 4s. Bogie might’ve done the best job at guarding peak LBJ.

[Mr Peanut]

I hope the Knick front office had a discussion about Bojan with Thibs before this trade. He really can't guard anyone at this stage in his career.

I half expect Achiuwa to take his PT in the playoffs, so hopefully he can help keep Brundle fresh until then

I watched Bogie for years in Indy and I’ve watched too many pistons games this season, absolutely no team ever hunts him. He’s got this rep for being a bad defender but it’s not really true. He’s big and physical and can guard 3s and 4s. Bogie might’ve done the best job at guarding peak LBJ.

After watching most Pistons games this season, he is a defensive turnstile. This is backed up by advanced stats as well. His Defensive RAPTOR is consistently in the bottom 5-10% of the league. His DBPM is -2.5 this season, which is bad.

[cgf]

I half expect Achiuwa to take his PT in the playoffs, so hopefully he can help keep Brundle fresh until then

I watched Bogie for years in Indy and I’ve watched too many pistons games this season, absolutely no team ever hunts him. He’s got this rep for being a bad defender but it’s not really true. He’s big and physical and can guard 3s and 4s. Bogie might’ve done the best job at guarding peak LBJ.

After watching most Pistons games this season, he is a defensive turnstile. This is backed up by advanced stats as well. His Defensive RAPTOR is consistently in the bottom 5-10% of the league. His DBPM is -2.5 this season, which is bad.

Someone on our board tried to say he was as good as Randle defensively, but I just don't see how anyone can seriously make that argument. The film matches the metrics:


Bojan: -2.3 def EPM, -1.93 D-DPM, -2.5 DBPM, -7.7 OnOff
Julius: +0.0 def EPM, -0.33 D-DPM, -0.3 DBPM, +0.4 OnOff

Bojan career D-LEBRON: -1.53, -1.35, -1.44, -1.02, -1.19, -0.13, -0.68, -1.54, -2.99, -2.46
Julius career D-LEBRON: -0.14, -0.89, -0.03, +0.54, +0.38, -1.14, -0.42, -0.65, -1.44, +0.07

Bojan career D-RAPTOR: NA, -3.3, -2.4, -1.4, -1.8, -0.6, -0.1, -3.1, -3.3, -1.7
Julius career D-RAPTOR: NA, -1.3, -1.0, +2.1, -0.3, -2.0, -0.3, -2.6, -0.4

[Knickfan1982]

I agree with you, and yet the Knicks thought Bogie was a better option for the bench in the playoffs than Grimes was. It says a lot. The Knicks do actually need some more spacing in their line ups at times so I can see Bogie getting 15-20 a game.

Again you are assuming that this trade was about the playoffs. It could just as easily be about keeping guys from getting burnt out before the playoffs.

And Thibs gave a banged up Grimes 27mpg last spring, if Bogey can only give us 15-20mpg that that would be evidence that Thibs doesn’t trust Bojan as much as he did Quentin.

This trade is absolutely in part about the playoffs. Bogie is versatile and can play the 3 and the 4. The Knicks will be able to trot out Bogie, OG and Randle line ups that will be big and switchable. Bogie is also an elite shooter, has been in big games and can close games too. Burks is a great 9th man, has been shooting it well and can create a little.

Not only that but Bogie’s contract for next season is great trade ballast so the Knicks keep their flexibility. This trade is a slam dunk.

I don't like Bojan as a player because of his limited defense. I didn't want to bring him in for that reason. But to get him and Burks without having to give up a single first rounder. Yea....its hard to argue against it.

[Rockazoids]

Again you are assuming that this trade was about the playoffs. It could just as easily be about keeping guys from getting burnt out before the playoffs.

And Thibs gave a banged up Grimes 27mpg last spring, if Bogey can only give us 15-20mpg that that would be evidence that Thibs doesn’t trust Bojan as much as he did Quentin.

This trade is absolutely in part about the playoffs. Bogie is versatile and can play the 3 and the 4. The Knicks will be able to trot out Bogie, OG and Randle line ups that will be big and switchable. Bogie is also an elite shooter, has been in big games and can close games too. Burks is a great 9th man, has been shooting it well and can create a little.

Not only that but Bogie’s contract for next season is great trade ballast so the Knicks keep their flexibility. This trade is a slam dunk.

I don't like Bojan as a player because of his limited defense. I didn't want to bring him in for that reason. But to get him and Burks without having to give up a single first rounder. Yea....its hard to argue against it.

What I don't understand is if you are going for it all this year, go for it. Why keep all the 1st for next year if you are going for
it this year. Fournier & 2 2nd for Burks & whatever salary to make it works would had been all I offered if I wasn't going
all in.

[MasterIchiro]

This trade is absolutely in part about the playoffs. Bogie is versatile and can play the 3 and the 4. The Knicks will be able to trot out Bogie, OG and Randle line ups that will be big and switchable. Bogie is also an elite shooter, has been in big games and can close games too. Burks is a great 9th man, has been shooting it well and can create a little.

Not only that but Bogie’s contract for next season is great trade ballast so the Knicks keep their flexibility. This trade is a slam dunk.

I don't like Bojan as a player because of his limited defense. I didn't want to bring him in for that reason. But to get him and Burks without having to give up a single first rounder. Yea....its hard to argue against it.

What I don't understand is if you are going for it all this year, go for it. Why keep all the 1st for next year if you are going for
it this year. Fournier & 2 2nd for Burks & whatever salary to make it works would had been all I offered if I wasn't going
all in.

You can only go all-in if the market offers the proper target. Knicks reportedly didn't see one.

If I'm the Knicks, I'm looking at Lauri Bird. Have to be.

You'd have to pay Ainge the Godfather price but at least you have the Canoli.

I have Lauri as your target.

[7r5ur]

I hope the Knick front office had a discussion about Bojan with Thibs before this trade. He really can't guard anyone at this stage in his career.

I half expect Achiuwa to take his PT in the playoffs, so hopefully he can help keep Brundle fresh until then

I watched Bogie for years in Indy and I’ve watched too many pistons games this season, absolutely no team ever hunts him. He’s got this rep for being a bad defender but it’s not really true. He’s big and physical and can guard 3s and 4s. Bogie might’ve done the best job at guarding peak LBJ.

He's not 29 anymore. Bojan absolutely gets hunted now as he nears 35 years old. If you want an example check out the 4th quarter of the Pistons/Raptors game when the losing streak was broken and find Siakam and Barnes taking turns walking him to the basket for layups. That one just stands out in my mind but it happens a lot.

NY should have an easier time of hiding him for sure (the Pistons are trying to hide other guys too), but he is without a doubt one of the very worst defenders in the league. An absolute walking bucket (on both ends).

[Knickfan1982]

This trade is absolutely in part about the playoffs. Bogie is versatile and can play the 3 and the 4. The Knicks will be able to trot out Bogie, OG and Randle line ups that will be big and switchable. Bogie is also an elite shooter, has been in big games and can close games too. Burks is a great 9th man, has been shooting it well and can create a little.

Not only that but Bogie’s contract for next season is great trade ballast so the Knicks keep their flexibility. This trade is a slam dunk.

I don't like Bojan as a player because of his limited defense. I didn't want to bring him in for that reason. But to get him and Burks without having to give up a single first rounder. Yea....its hard to argue against it.

What I don't understand is if you are going for it all this year, go for it. Why keep all the 1st for next year if you are going for
it this year. Fournier & 2 2nd for Burks & whatever salary to make it works would had been all I offered if I wasn't going
all in.

I think Master Ichiro has the truth of it. The right target for the all in move wasn't there. This deal certainly fills a couple big needs and the price was affordable. I think if everything falls right we can surprise Boston or Milwaukee in a series. We'd still be the underdogs but we'd be live. Plus we'd still have all our picks and Bojan then becomes a much more useful trade chip as an expiring contract than Fournier was.

[Knickfan1982]

I don't like Bojan as a player because of his limited defense. I didn't want to bring him in for that reason. But to get him and Burks without having to give up a single first rounder. Yea....its hard to argue against it.

What I don't understand is if you are going for it all this year, go for it. Why keep all the 1st for next year if you are going for
it this year. Fournier & 2 2nd for Burks & whatever salary to make it works would had been all I offered if I wasn't going
all in.

You can only go all-in if the market offers the proper target. Knicks reportedly didn't see one.

If I'm the Knicks, I'm looking at Lauri Bird. Have to be.

You'd have to pay Ainge the Godfather price but at least you have the Canoli.

I have Lauri as your target.

I don't see Lauri as that guy.

[cgf]

I don't like Bojan as a player because of his limited defense. I didn't want to bring him in for that reason. But to get him and Burks without having to give up a single first rounder. Yea....its hard to argue against it.

What I don't understand is if you are going for it all this year, go for it. Why keep all the 1st for next year if you are going for
it this year. Fournier & 2 2nd for Burks & whatever salary to make it works would had been all I offered if I wasn't going
all in.

I think Master Ichiro has the truth of it. The right target for the all in move wasn't there. This deal certainly fills a couple big needs and the price was affordable. I think if everything falls right we can surprise Boston or Milwaukee in a series. We'd still be the underdogs but we'd be live. Plus we'd still have all our picks and Bojan then becomes a much more useful trade chip as an expiring contract than Fournier was.

I don't have an issue with the targets. Yes our defense was an absolute joke with Bojan on the court, but that'll get better as he learns the schemes and front court starts getting healthy so we need to lean on Bojan less.

...but this team doesn't have a ton of guys who are both high end defenders and legit shooters; which is why giving one of our few genuine two-way players away could come back to bite us in the playoffs if DDV/Hart aren't hot.

So my only disappointment is that we gave away Grimes instead of using our 24 FRP, because I'm seriously when I say that I now expect Burks to close a lot of games for us when teams just ignore Hart behind the arc & target DDV/Bojan defensively.