76ers 2023-24 Season Thread Part 2

[youngcrev]

I believe we will regain full strength at some point. I see Buddy Hield and Lowry as two players who are comfortable and effective against the Celtics. There's no point in spending $2.8 million and 3-4 second-round picks to add them if Embiid isn't going to return.

I think we are currently strong enough to make the playoffs without Embiid. However, securing a top 4 seed is another challenge altogether.

I don't think finishing in the top 4 is a realistic goal with this roster and the upcoming schedule.

Stopping the free fall in the standings and staying out of the play-in should be the main goal, and even that will be tough.

If they can manage that, get healthy (Melton and Covington too), and get Embiid enough of a ramp up to get his cardio up and his rhythm back before the playoffs start, they've got a punchers chance at making a run.

[Bum Adebayo]

A run that will end in the second round as usual.

[Kobblehead]

I don't blame Morey for not doing the trade, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have done it, myself.

Bogdanović/Burks both bomb away from three and open up the floor. Harris barely spaces the floor, comparatively.

I think Hield is much better. Bogdanovic's only edge is his shot creation over Hield, which won't have that much value since we would rarely ask him to create with the ball considering we have Embiid, Tobias, and Maxey for that.

Hield is also easier to cover on defense. He's an average defensive player at the guard position in today’s NBA for me. Bogdanovic at the 3 or 4 is almost a liability; he ranks only at the 4th percentile on defense with a -2.2 Defensive Plus-Minus (DPM). He also averages only 3 rebounds per game. It's as if we have George Niang out there with Tobias.

In an either/or scenario, I'm glad we made the Hield trade.

My mind went to doing the Pistons trade after the Pacers trade so we hauled all those shooters.

I'd rather have Embiid surrounded by as much shooting as possible. Harris' reluctant shooting has made him a worse and worse fit.

[76ciology]

I don't blame Morey for not doing the trade, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have done it, myself.

Bogdanović/Burks both bomb away from three and open up the floor. Harris barely spaces the floor, comparatively.

I think Hield is much better. Bogdanovic's only edge is his shot creation over Hield, which won't have that much value since we would rarely ask him to create with the ball considering we have Embiid, Tobias, and Maxey for that.

Hield is also easier to cover on defense. He's an average defensive player at the guard position in today’s NBA for me. Bogdanovic at the 3 or 4 is almost a liability; he ranks only at the 4th percentile on defense with a -2.2 Defensive Plus-Minus (DPM). He also averages only 3 rebounds per game. It's as if we have George Niang out there with Tobias.

In an either/or scenario, I'm glad we made the Hield trade.

My mind went to doing the Pistons trade after the Pacers trade so we hauled all those shooters.

I'd rather have Embiid surrounded by as much shooting as possible. Harris' reluctant shooting has made him a worse and worse fit.

I also believe Embiid needs to be surrounded by shooters, but he doesn't necessarily need an overwhelming amount of shooting, as he takes most of his shots at the elbow or mid-range area, where there's a high percentage scoring opportunity near the paint.

Given our limited assets, we're likely to acquire players with limited talent. We won't be able to surround Embiid with four Paul Georges. It's more likely to be someone like George Niang, who can shoot 3s reliably but lacks in other aspects, or someone like Melton or Roco, who shoot 3s inconsistently but play defense.

Finding shooters at the 1-2 positions is easier since they can be average at best on defense, for their position doesnt require much defense. Hield and Maxey are perfect examples. However, at the 3 and 4 positions, it becomes trickier.

If you acquire Bogdanovic or Niang, you sacrifice defense. If you opt for a well-rounded player like Harris, who can create, defend, and shoot, you might complain about his inability to take a high volume of 3s.

That's why I believe we should be open with a forward who's good at defense, can create, is slightly worse at 3s, but is a reliable finisher in the paint. This type is dependable on both ends, unlike the Niang/Bogdanovic type, who excel at 3s but are weak on defense, or the well-rounded ones like Tobi. For me, that player is Kelly Oubre. He is similar to what Aaron Gordon is to the Nuggets.

If Embiid is being double-teamed, he can pass to shooters at the 1-2 positions, a 3&D guy, and a high-percentage finisher in the paint.

There are multiple ways to build a championship team, and I don't think it necessarily means we need to surround Embiid with four dead-eye 3-point shooters. I believe the 3-point shooting of Maxey, Hield, Tobi, and Oubre is sufficient. It's much better to be well-rounded, have multiple options, and not rely too much on the variance of 3-point shooting.

[stormi]

player like Harris, who can create, defend, and shoot..

We're still doing this?

[76ciology]

player like Harris, who can create, defend, and shoot..

We're still doing this?

I intentionally posted it so you wont return

[stormi]

player like Harris, who can create, defend, and shoot..

We're still doing this?

I intentionally posted it so you wont return

I know you like Tobias, but I just can't understand why. What do you (and Morey) see in him?

There is not one box score adjusted metric that validates the argument that Tobias Harris does anything but bring down Joel Embiid when he's on the court, it's quite the contrary actually and by an incriminating margin.

He's been borderline unplayable outside of the first round. He is an awful POA defender. I don't see a smart basketball player. I see him being gunshy and constantly turning down great open looks for bad low percentage ones at the rim.

He's unathletic. He loves missing layups. He can't pass. He get mythologized as some kind of swiss army sacrificial lamb but in reality he's selfish, and any “sacrifice” he’s made was because he wasn’t good enough for what he wanted to do.

Read on Twitter

Net Rating splits during the Doc Rivers era (with low-leverage minutes removed, aka garbage time).



Joel Embiid has been quite literally more impactful and played better basketball in high leverage playoff situations with the fodder he's been surrounded by in the Rivers era than with Tobias. And Tobias without Joel there to hold his hand has been a hindering liability.

In my opinion, Tobias Harris was formed in a lab somewhere by time travelling Australians with no other purpose but to anchor down Joel Embiid's legacy to davy jones' locker.

[youngcrev]

We're still doing this?

I intentionally posted it so you wont return

I know you like Tobias, but I just can't understand why. What do you (and Morey) see in him?

There is not one box score adjusted metric that validates the argument that Tobias Harris does anything but bring down Joel Embiid when he's on the court, it's quite the contrary actually and by an incriminating margin.

He's been borderline unplayable outside of the first round. He is an awful POA defender. I don't see a smart basketball player. I see him being gunshy and constantly turning down great open looks for bad low percentage ones at the rim.

He's unathletic. He loves missing layups. He can't pass. He get mythologized as some kind of swiss army sacrificial lamb but in reality he's selfish, and any “sacrifice” he’s made was because he wasn’t good enough for what he wanted to do.

Read on Twitter

Net Rating splits during the Doc Rivers era (with low-leverage minutes removed, aka garbage time).



Joel Embiid has been quite literally more impactful and played better basketball in high leverage playoff situations with the fodder he's been surrounded by in the Rivers era than with Tobias. And Tobias without Joel there to hold his hand has been a hindering liability.

In my opinion, Tobias Harris was formed in a lab somewhere by time travelling Australians with no other purpose but to anchor down Joel Embiid's legacy to davy jones' locker.

Feels like a pretty extreme anti-Tobias take, particularly given your numbers show the offense being better in the minutes when both are on the floor.

[76ciology]

We're still doing this?

I intentionally posted it so you wont return

I know you like Tobias, but I just can't understand why. What do you (and Morey) see in him?

There is not one box score adjusted metric that validates the argument that Tobias Harris does anything but bring down Joel Embiid when he's on the court, it's quite the contrary actually and by an incriminating margin.

He's been borderline unplayable outside of the first round. He is an awful POA defender. I don't see a smart basketball player. I see him being gunshy and constantly turning down great open looks for bad low percentage ones at the rim.

He's unathletic. He loves missing layups. He can't pass. He get mythologized as some kind of swiss army sacrificial lamb but in reality he's selfish, and any “sacrifice” he’s made was because he wasn’t good enough for what he wanted to do.

Read on Twitter

Net Rating splits during the Doc Rivers era (with low-leverage minutes removed, aka garbage time).



Joel Embiid has been quite literally more impactful and played better basketball in high leverage playoff situations with the fodder he's been surrounded by in the Rivers era than with Tobias. And Tobias without Joel there to hold his hand has been a hindering liability.

In my opinion, Tobias Harris was formed in a lab somewhere by time travelling Australians with no other purpose but to anchor down Joel Embiid's legacy to davy jones' locker.

Not only does Morey favor Tobi, but Embiid also likes him.

I'm open to trading Tobi; in fact, I've posted the most Tobias Harris trades in the trade thread and wanted to trade him for Siakam before the trade deadline. However, I believe Tobi is perfect for our team if we want a four-out offense for Embiid.

He fits well when Embiid is on the floor because he’s not a negative floor spacer. He can score in transition, space the floor, attack closeouts, and be a neutral to above-average defender. Then, when Embiid is not playing, he can provide some 1v1 scoring, as he did to help us close out the Nets series.

Tobi is a good fit; he's been part of all of our best five-man units every year.

In terms of playoff performance, he defended Siakam in the 2022 playoffs and carried the scoring for the Sixers in the 2023 playoffs. He averaged 15-17 points per game on a 50-52% field goal percentage and shot 37-39% on 3s in both the 2022 and 2023 playoffs. In terms of playoff performance, he recorded 2.3 BPM in 2021, 3 BPM in 2022, and 1.4 BPM in 2023.

What are the alternative options?

- John Collins? Worse team player and worse shooter.
- Siakam? Contract and worse shooter.
- Bogdanovic? Worse defender and rebounder.


In theory, everyone wants someone like Kawhi Leonard. But in reality, Tobi is the most well-rounded player you’re going to get in terms of defense, shooting, scoring, and locker room presence. Everyone who likes Tobi (including Morey and Embiid) wouldn't mind trading Tobi for Kawhi or Markannen, but it’s unrealistic.

Another thing is that the league is trending from a "big 3" to a "collective 5" type team, where you have five scorers on the floor. The easiest way to achieve this is by retaining Tobi.

So, if you notice, Morey isn't trading Tobi for Bogdanovic, for they would just cancel each other out towards a “collective 5”. And by doing so, it would create a bigger problem because of Bogdanovic’s deficiency on defense that would be very hard to compensate.

Maxey
Batum
Oubre
Bogdanovic
Embiid

Morey seems to be okay with having BOTH Tobi and Bogdanovic because that is trending towards this "collective 5" approach.

Maxey
Oubre
Bogdanovic
Tobias
Embiid

In the end, I find us to land at the best situation with Hield.

Maxey
Hield
Oubre
Tobias
Embiid

It has a good balance of defense, offense, shooting, rebounding and finishing around the rim.

[Black Mage]

Can anyone explain to me the purpose of adding Kyle Lowry?

Isn’t Payne already enough for back-up PG?

The only reason I can see is a potential “farewell tour”

Lowry's handles are better than both Bev and Payne. He should also be better at entry passes to Joel (pretending Joel actually comes back this year).

[Negrodamus]

Being nice to Tobias did keep a good relationship other Torrel, who gifted us Oubre. So I’m sure there are relationship reasons behind not quietly shipping him out to Detroit.

I do think both sides will amicably move on this summer with no bad blood.

[Ben]

Being nice to Tobias did keep a good relationship other Torrel, who gifted us Oubre. So I’m sure there are relationship reasons behind not quietly shipping him out to Detroit.

I do think both sides will amicably move on this summer with no bad blood.

Eh, I really think that there's a good chance we re-sign Tobi this offseason unless Detroit makes a crazy offer.

That wouldn't worry me. What would worry me is if Detroit makes a crazy offer and we then match it.

[Zumramania]

Embiid likes different players like Tobias, Jimmy Butler, PJ Tucker, and I've also heard Mo Bamba. So it seems this is not really based on basketball qualities, except in the case of Butler.
I think that the playoff stats that Stormi posted are pretty telling, but also the eye test, and Tobias's stats against good opponents in the second round of the playoffs that have been posted here. He shot less than 30% from 3, this is what you would get from Thybulle.
He is a good regular season player and that's it. If Morey resigns him, it will be his first really bad move in my opinion.

[Arsenal]

Being nice to Tobias did keep a good relationship other Torrel, who gifted us Oubre. So I’m sure there are relationship reasons behind not quietly shipping him out to Detroit.

I do think both sides will amicably move on this summer with no bad blood.

Eh, I really think that there's a good chance we re-sign Tobi this offseason unless Detroit makes a crazy offer.

That wouldn't worry me. What would worry me is if Detroit makes a crazy offer and we then match it.

This. I expect him back if the price is right. If the price is wrong because a team like Detroit wildly overpays him then he'll be gone. Which is what should happen.

I think the right price would be something like 3 years / $75m. Much more than that and I say adios.

[mjkvol]

We're still doing this?

I intentionally posted it so you wont return

I know you like Tobias, but I just can't understand why. What do you (and Morey) see in him?

There is not one box score adjusted metric that validates the argument that Tobias Harris does anything but bring down Joel Embiid when he's on the court, it's quite the contrary actually and by an incriminating margin.

He's been borderline unplayable outside of the first round. He is an awful POA defender. I don't see a smart basketball player. I see him being gunshy and constantly turning down great open looks for bad low percentage ones at the rim.

He's unathletic. He loves missing layups. He can't pass. He get mythologized as some kind of swiss army sacrificial lamb but in reality he's selfish, and any “sacrifice” he’s made was because he wasn’t good enough for what he wanted to do.

Read on Twitter

Net Rating splits during the Doc Rivers era (with low-leverage minutes removed, aka garbage time).



Joel Embiid has been quite literally more impactful and played better basketball in high leverage playoff situations with the fodder he's been surrounded by in the Rivers era than with Tobias. And Tobias without Joel there to hold his hand has been a hindering liability.

In my opinion, Tobias Harris was formed in a lab somewhere by time travelling Australians with no other purpose but to anchor down Joel Embiid's legacy to davy jones' locker.

It's funny, but the statement that he has yet to take a charge as a Sixer is at once shocking and totally believable.

[Negrodamus]

Being nice to Tobias did keep a good relationship other Torrel, who gifted us Oubre. So I’m sure there are relationship reasons behind not quietly shipping him out to Detroit.

I do think both sides will amicably move on this summer with no bad blood.

Eh, I really think that there's a good chance we re-sign Tobi this offseason unless Detroit makes a crazy offer.

That wouldn't worry me. What would worry me is if Detroit makes a crazy offer and we then match it.

This. I expect him back if the price is right. If the price is wrong because a team like Detroit wildly overpays him then he'll be gone. Which is what should happen.

I think the right price would be something like 3 years / $75m. Much more than that and I say adios.

I don't think he'll be back because he doesn't really fit. If anyone can appreciate the issue of lack of fit, it's probably Morey. I also think Tobi is going to look for at least $30/year which is just too much. I think $20/year is too much given how much he doesn't fit here.

[Negrodamus]

For less than whatever Tobias is going to get, we can throw a contract at Jordan Nwora or Saddiq Bey and they would fit the role a billion times better than what Tobias does. Both of those guys shoot 6+ 3PA per 36. Tobias shoots half that.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Embiid likes different players like Tobias, Jimmy Butler, PJ Tucker, and I've also heard Mo Bamba. So it seems this is not really based on basketball qualities, except in the case of Butler.
I think that the playoff stats that Stormi posted are pretty telling, but also the eye test, and Tobias's stats against good opponents in the second round of the playoffs that have been posted here. He shot less than 30% from 3, this is what you would get from Thybulle.
He is a good regular season player and that's it. If Morey resigns him, it will be his first really bad move in my opinion.

Exactly. U get it!!!

[M2J]

Kyle Lowry is a good pickup for limited minutes. I like him over Beverly because he needs to be guarded and better than Payne because he can defend. You also need 3pgs, so that Maxey can rest some nights. They've Harden, Maxey, and Shake recently.

Crazy thing, is this could be a damned good team around Joel and Maxey. I also believe if he were healthy and the national media mostly believes he won't return by reading Daryl's moves with the expiring Hield and trading Bev....not knowing how insane he is.

Where have you heard that Joel isn't coming back. I'd say with his competitive nature he's 100% coming back even if we're play in. PHLY pod thinks he's coming back (Kyle and Derek).

Don't think they get Lowry if Joel isn't coming back either. Guarantee that's the 1st thing he asked.

Daryl didn't make the moves because he would have to overpay, and I agree no sense in overpaying for someone like Bojan, or Murray when you could possibly get better players (via trade no fa) in the offseason.

Draymond pod, Rasheed, a lot of the NBA crew (non reporters, but analysts)

I'm convinced he's coming back.

[Mik317]

Biid is coming back

whether or not he should or will be even at 50% is another question