Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[YogurtProducer]

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KO smarter than the majority of this forum

Trying to figure out who doesn’t think Scottie is a good passer

[Tha Cynic]

His ballhandling is increasing and he's still making the risky passes you will need to make to shift defenses, while reducing turnovers. Good signs.

[manjusaka]

Our team finally stabilized for the year. With a consistent role, right now he would just keep improving.

[DG88]

Loved how vocal Scottie was on the court and the bench. Really trying to lead the team. That to me was more important than the triple double.

[Scase]

LeBron was never a passive player Some kids are showing their age. Passing doesn't = passive. LeBron's handle for his size and frame is unparalleled, and he was aggressively attacking from the day he stepped onto and NBA court. I watched him courtside as a rookie, before the roids, and he got everywhere he wanted. This year Duncan Robinson was able to turn Scottie 2X before the free throw line.

To his credit it looks like Scottie is focussed on slowing the half court down and overhandling a little more to help himself get into more dangerous positions. I actually didn't mind his game last night. He was getting where he needed to be and making good reads, not throwing possessions away. I think he got hacked a lot and the refs were trying to get Houston to make a game of it and his jumper was a little flat.

His shot was definitely not falling, and the refs were blind, but you're absolutely right. He was constantly in the right place, making great reads leading to plenty of open shots. Watching him make a read to RJ cutting, and then RJ seeing Jak rolling was fantastic to watch. Hockey assists don't show up on the stat sheets, but he has them in droves.

He was good again last night and the shots were falling. Averaging 13 drives the last two games. This is the number he needs to hit consistently the rest of the season.

I feel like a big part of that is him being in the offensive schemes right from the jump, it opens up the floor. Games that start off with him floating at the corner 3 while IQ etc just dribble the air out of the ball vs him getting early touches have a massive impact on how the opposing defences play him.

Once he gets a few good assists the floor starts opening up, and thats where he gets to keep driving. But if it happens too late in the game, defences just don't allow it to happen. The offence just flows a million times better with him as the initiator.

[Scase]

Loved how vocal Scottie was on the court and the bench. Really trying to lead the team. That to me was more important than the triple double.

Now we just have to make sure Darko stops burning him out as the primary OG level defender each game. Not having to chase Mitchell all game left him energized the whole game. I think him being vocal was/is also an energy thing, how do you amp your team up if you're running on fumes?

[brownbobcat]

Barnes has that Lowry quality where he can shoot 4-16 but still provide a positive impact because he does so many different things well, from the passing, the rebounding, the steals, the blocks, the POA defense. That's what really separates him from a lot of other guys, especially around his age.

Some people need to come to the realization that he isn't going to be a KD or Kawhi like offensive force. That's never been his game at any level. He will have his moments offensively, but his mindset is that of a playmaker and secondary creator, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just need to put the right players around him.

Here's the thing - you can't do that. You cannot get caught in the trap of tailoring a team around a guy who is very, very good but not great. That doesn't mean you dump him, but the only way to success is finding a lot of other really talented players and hope they mesh.

So if Barnes can't take that next step, he needs to learn how to adjust to other guys just as much as they have to adjust to him. A weaker star cannot be the center of a powerful orbit.

the raps have had many ‘very good but not great’ prospects the past decades, some of which they tried to build around and failed

I’m convinced Barnes is NOT one of those. Mischaracterizing him as such would be a costly mistake. this player is going to be Great

good thing is Masai is now building the roster accordingly

Barnes is not a Luka/Bron/Wemby type of generational talent - that's what I mean by great, someone who would always be in the MVP debate. I'm not sure you can be that level of player if you're even not a lead scorer

[Scase]

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Could've been 4 already, this is pretty bonkers.

[DG88]

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Could've been 4 already, this is pretty bonkers.

29 more opportunities to have more.

[Mikistan]

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KO smarter than the majority of this forum

Trying to figure out who doesn’t think Scottie is a good passer

Shakril

[ATLTimekeeper]

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Could've been 4 already, this is pretty bonkers.

29 more opportunities to have more.

It's crazy that Scottie is one of the league leaders in triple doubles at 3, Sabonis leads the league at 16 and isn't an all-star. It costs him like a million and a half to be in the West right now.

[HiJiNX]

His ballhandling is increasing and he's still making the risky passes you will need to make to shift defenses, while reducing turnovers. Good signs.

My favourite thing yesterday was he tried to takeover in the second Q when things were getting away from us and he was producing offence, we just couldn’t get any stops.

[Scase]

His ballhandling is increasing and he's still making the risky passes you will need to make to shift defenses, while reducing turnovers. Good signs.

My favourite thing yesterday was he tried to takeover in the second Q when things were getting away from us and he was producing offence, we just couldn’t get any stops.

He did absolutely everything for the team last night, no one else was really even there. I was pleasantly surprised with KO, I want to see him replace Jak and see how it goes. KO is a good passer and an outside threat, on this team, I think we can have his offence outweigh his negative defence.

Worth a shot to have a look at least, cause Jak is not a defensive anchor, so I don't think it can get substantially worse. We're 23rd in the league, and the gap between us and the last place hornets is only 3.4ppg. No harm in trying I think.

[links135]

Yeah he is going to 100% be fine - but I take issue with people who are CONVINCED he is an elite offensive talent. The toxicity of this place from (mostly) Scottie super stans is just crazy. Especially when you know he is (PROBABLY) not going to reach those insane heights and those same people are gonna turn on him.

I think even his biggest fans now concede that his handle isn't good enough to be the main guy that runs the offense. And maybe he's never the main guy that runs the offense for the whole game. But even in crunch time....his handle is too loose to be that guy. I say that while acknowledging his handle is above average for his size. It's just that most players his size don't even sniff at running an offense. In anycase...if we could choose a skillset to boost by 5 to 10% during the off-season....his handle is a good choice.

The other thing that might rub some people the wrong way....his conditioning needs to be better. He consistently looks like the oldest player on the floor for us in terms of jump in his step and spring in his jump. There's too many stretches where he's kinda lumbering and laboring. The whole 'one of the last ones to arrive and one of the first ones to leave' at practices might be a factor in this. His diet and daily regiment are factors too. If he looks like THIS at 22 then what's he gonna look like at 30?

When Demar was in his 3rd year there were multiple beat-writer articles praising his work ethic, his off-season training and his gym-rat routines. It's basically radio-silence on these topics about Barnes. Ppl think our beat-writers have a bias against him...but they're the ones who are around the team and know this type of stuff. Derozan recently was on the Paul George podcast and they spoke about how young players aren't putting the same amount of work in compared to the previous generations.

In anycase...it's my opinion that Barnes shouldn't look this much like an old man during stretches of games. He's in good physical shape but his cardio just doesn't seem adequate.

So in light of all the leaps he's made both offensively AND defensively this season (his defensive improvements don't get talked about enough)....my opinion is that ball-handling and cardio are two things kinda holding him back. It's possible he might even benefit by slimming down a bit.

Ya, Chris Vernon mentioned on his podcast that he saw him in Memphis when we played the Grizzlies and observed the same. Said he's gotten much bigger since he came in the league and seems slower as a result.

I think playing him so much as a small ball 5 as a rookie convinced him to get bigger. Now that we're going to be using him as a 4 mostly i think he should slim down. Should help his quickness and transition speed overall.

Lol, Derozan in his 3rd season pit up 16.7 ppg with 2 assists, it was slower pace but also that, they played at 92 pace, ours is average at 99.

Even then when we first made the playoffs, we had an ORsting of 108.8, our meh offence is now at 114.7.

In terms of conditioning I'd say it's more picking and choosing when to exert effort more intelligently, he's one of the more active everywhere players, the only 2 dudes with more fantasy points at thr same scoring level is Wemby and Sabonis, for non centers he kicks the **** out of everyone else besides scoring.

I also don't think his handle is a big problem long term, but if he doesn't have a midrange game, he does have to try and use it to force his way to the rim, as opposed to pulling up for a middy that would take less effort.

I think his size is fine, he does lose some quickness, but it also allows him to play a little bigger on a team now starved of size, which allows him to do those postups on Allen and Mobley that he would struggle otherwise.

It just looks worse having to force it inside, which is predictable and cant keep the defence honest. Him with a midrange pullup will be quite frightening, even though the offence last night was meh, did like his playmaking to the outside for that reason, him playing the midrange game + passes outside to shooters is a great combo, plus a midrange game doesn't require that Giannis like speed.

[mdenny]

I think even his biggest fans now concede that his handle isn't good enough to be the main guy that runs the offense. And maybe he's never the main guy that runs the offense for the whole game. But even in crunch time....his handle is too loose to be that guy. I say that while acknowledging his handle is above average for his size. It's just that most players his size don't even sniff at running an offense. In anycase...if we could choose a skillset to boost by 5 to 10% during the off-season....his handle is a good choice.

The other thing that might rub some people the wrong way....his conditioning needs to be better. He consistently looks like the oldest player on the floor for us in terms of jump in his step and spring in his jump. There's too many stretches where he's kinda lumbering and laboring. The whole 'one of the last ones to arrive and one of the first ones to leave' at practices might be a factor in this. His diet and daily regiment are factors too. If he looks like THIS at 22 then what's he gonna look like at 30?

When Demar was in his 3rd year there were multiple beat-writer articles praising his work ethic, his off-season training and his gym-rat routines. It's basically radio-silence on these topics about Barnes. Ppl think our beat-writers have a bias against him...but they're the ones who are around the team and know this type of stuff. Derozan recently was on the Paul George podcast and they spoke about how young players aren't putting the same amount of work in compared to the previous generations.

In anycase...it's my opinion that Barnes shouldn't look this much like an old man during stretches of games. He's in good physical shape but his cardio just doesn't seem adequate.

So in light of all the leaps he's made both offensively AND defensively this season (his defensive improvements don't get talked about enough)....my opinion is that ball-handling and cardio are two things kinda holding him back. It's possible he might even benefit by slimming down a bit.

Ya, Chris Vernon mentioned on his podcast that he saw him in Memphis when we played the Grizzlies and observed the same. Said he's gotten much bigger since he came in the league and seems slower as a result.

I think playing him so much as a small ball 5 as a rookie convinced him to get bigger. Now that we're going to be using him as a 4 mostly i think he should slim down. Should help his quickness and transition speed overall.

Lol, Derozan in his 3rd season pit up 16.7 ppg with 2 assists, it was slower pace but also that, they played at 92 pace, ours is average at 99.







I didn't say 'derozan put up better numbers than scotty in his third year' so I don't why you are laughing out loud.

I said by his third season there were multiple reports about his work ethic, his off-season training and him being a gym-rat.

[links135]

Ya, Chris Vernon mentioned on his podcast that he saw him in Memphis when we played the Grizzlies and observed the same. Said he's gotten much bigger since he came in the league and seems slower as a result.

I think playing him so much as a small ball 5 as a rookie convinced him to get bigger. Now that we're going to be using him as a 4 mostly i think he should slim down. Should help his quickness and transition speed overall.

Lol, Derozan in his 3rd season pit up 16.7 ppg with 2 assists, it was slower pace but also that, they played at 92 pace, ours is average at 99.







I didn't say 'derozan put up better numbers than scotty in his third year' so I don't why you are laughing out loud.

I said by his third season there were multiple reports about his work ethic, his off-season training and him being a gym-rat.

Basically he was used far less, never developed a 3pt shot and wasn't used nearly as much as a playmaker, never mind the blocks and being put on superstars.

He might have a point about young players not putting the same work in, but it's hard to argue Barnes is that. That's probably more a Zion Simmons type thing.

[rapsincr]

scotties hug game went from elite as a rookie to below league avg now, disappointing.

[sidsid]

Remains the key to expanding Barnes' efficiency and likely even more assists: the high post. His most effective go-to move remains the pass threat leading to faking out defenders. Had his easiest half court points of the night by going right by Collins in an empty paint (Kelly had one of these later, too).

Something not possible with Jak on the floor. Like Dennis, a crucial offseason move for the FO is to provide Darko with only players that fit to force his hand on the development front.

https://youtu.be/W8SqZEHN1XU?si=GmB5KCohnu6RWaIx

[dTox]

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[Walid]

This is a pivotal stretch. Scottie Barnes has the talent, but he's facing a slump that's hard to ignore. The concerns about his effort/attitude, which have been raised over the past couple of years, have become increasingly apparent and all too common. The team is struggling, and yes we're short on talent, but we still have got to be competitive during this rebuild. You can't be considered an all-star if you're not making enough of an impact, especially against other struggling teams. Now is the time for Scottie to step up. The organization fully supports him. It's time for maturity..time to match potential with leadership.