Around the NBA - non Heat related discussion!

[GopherIt!]

Timberwolves spanking the clips

ma puppies growin up.

[Bishop45]

He does not seem well, people should be checking in on him

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[IceColdCubano]

I haven't been watching, but good for Cavs

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I haven’t been watching either, but they’ve been balling. Some of it seems to be Mitchell elevating himself, but Mobley’s return shouldn’t be understated.

An example of a very big front line with low spacing that is holding it down. Will be interesting to see if it translates in the playoffs.

Donovan Mitchel entering the second stratos sphere of premier scorers now, which means if you though he was expensive when they got him from Utah, add another FRP and another Young player next to the previous offer.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I haven't been watching, but good for Cavs

Read on Twitter

I haven’t been watching either, but they’ve been balling. Some of it seems to be Mitchell elevating himself, but Mobley’s return shouldn’t be understated.

An example of a very big front line with low spacing that is holding it down. Will be interesting to see if it translates in the playoffs.

Donovan Mitchel entering the second stratos sphere of premier scorers now, which means if you though he was expensive when they got him from Utah, add another FRP and another Young player next to the previous offer.

No sir! He was doing this same stuff in Utah except with elite playoff performances added in, his one playoff stint with the Cavs was bad and an outlier to his career.

He’s 2 years older now and if you couple that with the fact that he is essentially an expiring contract if you trade for him this summer at the earliest, his value should be lower than it was coming out of Utah. 3 1sts, a solid role player in Lauri, a young prospect (Ogbaji or whatever) and a young player coming off a season long injury with little value (sexton) is what it took to get him from Utah. It should be less now all things considered, either you trade him or you risk losing him for nothing when the leagues “worst kept secret” is that he has no desire to stay in Cleveland long term.

Should’ve sent Herro and all the picks for him when Ainge wanted it, Mitchell said himself he thought he was going to be in a Heat jersey. We’d be so damn good, might have a championship

[MiamiLoyal926]

I haven’t been watching either, but they’ve been balling. Some of it seems to be Mitchell elevating himself, but Mobley’s return shouldn’t be understated.

An example of a very big front line with low spacing that is holding it down. Will be interesting to see if it translates in the playoffs.

Donovan Mitchel entering the second stratos sphere of premier scorers now, which means if you though he was expensive when they got him from Utah, add another FRP and another Young player next to the previous offer.

No sir! He was doing this same stuff in Utah except with elite playoff performances added in, his one playoff stint with the Cavs was bad and an outlier to his career.

He’s 2 years older now and if you couple that with the fact that he is essentially an expiring contract if you trade for him this summer at the earliest, his value should be lower than it was coming out of Utah. 3 1sts, a solid role player in Lauri, a young prospect (Ogbaji or whatever) and a young player coming off a season long injury with little value (sexton) is what it took to get him from Utah. It should be less now all things considered, either you trade him or you risk losing him for nothing when the leagues “worst kept secret” is that he has no desire to stay in Cleveland long term.

Should’ve sent Herro and all the picks for him when Ainge wanted it, Mitchell said himself he thought he was going to be in a Heat jersey. We’d be so damn good, might have a championship

I agree with the notion that his value will be lower since this time he will be a pending FA and has a say on where he will extend versus before where anybody, even Cleveland was willing to take a swing since he was under contract for a while.


With that being said, we did not have enough to compete with the Cavs offer! Stop pushing that false narrative! Our cupboards were fairly depleted that summer and we could not offer anything that would be considered better. I an sure Herro and whatever draft capital we had was on the table… yet it didn’t happen. Hmm.. why? Cause the Cavs offer was better. Not by much, but better enough to outbid us. Coincidence that there offer was just a tad better than our best? That tells me we had an all in offer that the Cavs had to one up and they did.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Donovan Mitchel entering the second stratos sphere of premier scorers now, which means if you though he was expensive when they got him from Utah, add another FRP and another Young player next to the previous offer.

No sir! He was doing this same stuff in Utah except with elite playoff performances added in, his one playoff stint with the Cavs was bad and an outlier to his career.

He’s 2 years older now and if you couple that with the fact that he is essentially an expiring contract if you trade for him this summer at the earliest, his value should be lower than it was coming out of Utah. 3 1sts, a solid role player in Lauri, a young prospect (Ogbaji or whatever) and a young player coming off a season long injury with little value (sexton) is what it took to get him from Utah. It should be less now all things considered, either you trade him or you risk losing him for nothing when the leagues “worst kept secret” is that he has no desire to stay in Cleveland long term.

Should’ve sent Herro and all the picks for him when Ainge wanted it, Mitchell said himself he thought he was going to be in a Heat jersey. We’d be so damn good, might have a championship

I agree with the notion that his value will be lower since this time he will be a pending FA and has a say on where he will extend versus before where anybody, even Cleveland was willing to take a swing since he was under contract for a while.


With that being said, we did not have enough to compete with the Cavs offer! Stop pushing that false narrative! Our cupboards were fairly depleted that summer and we could not offer anything that would be considered better. I anm sure Herro and whatever draft capital we had was on the table… yet it didn’t happen. Hmm.. why? Cause the Cavs offer was better. Not by much, but better enough to outbid us.

Nope, this has been reported. We offered Herro and 1 1st, Barry said Miami didn’t think the gap between Herro and Mitchell was big enough to justify sending multiple 1sts along with Herro to land Mitchell. This was coming off Herros 6MOY season and Ainge already had a hard on for Herro before that, this move was a no brainer for us.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Jazz absolutely came out better than what they would’ve got from us seeing how Lauri and Sexton turned out to be better than Herro but at that time Lauri was a role player and sexton was coming off a season long injury.

[IceColdCubano]

No sir! He was doing this same stuff in Utah except with elite playoff performances added in, his one playoff stint with the Cavs was bad and an outlier to his career.

He’s 2 years older now and if you couple that with the fact that he is essentially an expiring contract if you trade for him this summer at the earliest, his value should be lower than it was coming out of Utah. 3 1sts, a solid role player in Lauri, a young prospect (Ogbaji or whatever) and a young player coming off a season long injury with little value (sexton) is what it took to get him from Utah. It should be less now all things considered, either you trade him or you risk losing him for nothing when the leagues “worst kept secret” is that he has no desire to stay in Cleveland long term.

Should’ve sent Herro and all the picks for him when Ainge wanted it, Mitchell said himself he thought he was going to be in a Heat jersey. We’d be so damn good, might have a championship

I agree with the notion that his value will be lower since this time he will be a pending FA and has a say on where he will extend versus before where anybody, even Cleveland was willing to take a swing since he was under contract for a while.


With that being said, we did not have enough to compete with the Cavs offer! Stop pushing that false narrative! Our cupboards were fairly depleted that summer and we could not offer anything that would be considered better. I anm sure Herro and whatever draft capital we had was on the table… yet it didn’t happen. Hmm.. why? Cause the Cavs offer was better. Not by much, but better enough to outbid us.

Nope, this has been reported. We offered Herro and 1 1st, Barry said Miami didn’t think the gap between Herro and Mitchell was big enough to justify sending multiple 1sts along with Herro to land Mitchell. This was coming off Herros 6MOY season and Ainge already had a hard on for Herro before that, this move was a no brainer for us.

Barry could just be reporting what was told vs what was actually presented too. If I am the heat I won't lower Herro's value by telling the NBA stratosphere that I offered Herro + 2 Picks + 1 young talent and it went nowhere. By saying what Barry put down, makes it seem like it was based on FO decision which resulted in the miss instead of the player value not being equal. We know if Cavs came back and said, give me another Pick and this little thing here, Miami would have done it. Any scouting department would have been fired for not doing so.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I agree with the notion that his value will be lower since this time he will be a pending FA and has a say on where he will extend versus before where anybody, even Cleveland was willing to take a swing since he was under contract for a while.


With that being said, we did not have enough to compete with the Cavs offer! Stop pushing that false narrative! Our cupboards were fairly depleted that summer and we could not offer anything that would be considered better. I anm sure Herro and whatever draft capital we had was on the table… yet it didn’t happen. Hmm.. why? Cause the Cavs offer was better. Not by much, but better enough to outbid us.

Nope, this has been reported. We offered Herro and 1 1st, Barry said Miami didn’t think the gap between Herro and Mitchell was big enough to justify sending multiple 1sts along with Herro to land Mitchell. This was coming off Herros 6MOY season and Ainge already had a hard on for Herro before that, this move was a no brainer for us.

Barry could just be reporting what was told vs what was actually presented too. If I am the heat I won't lower Herro's value by telling the NBA stratosphere that I offered Herro + 2 Picks + 1 young talent and it went nowhere. By saying what Barry put down, makes it seem like it was based on FO decision which resulted in the miss instead of the player value not being equal. We know if Cavs came back and said, give me another Pick and this little thing here, Miami would have done it. Any scouting department would have been fired for not doing so.

I’m not buying that, the FO fumbled that one bad being delusional about the type of player Herro is. We were coming off the 1st seed, Herro being the 6MOY, and 1 shot away from our 2nd finals in 3 years at that time, the genuinely believed Herro was close to Herro and they couldn’t have been more wrong.

[IceColdCubano]

Nope, this has been reported. We offered Herro and 1 1st, Barry said Miami didn’t think the gap between Herro and Mitchell was big enough to justify sending multiple 1sts along with Herro to land Mitchell. This was coming off Herros 6MOY season and Ainge already had a hard on for Herro before that, this move was a no brainer for us.

Barry could just be reporting what was told vs what was actually presented too. If I am the heat I won't lower Herro's value by telling the NBA stratosphere that I offered Herro + 2 Picks + 1 young talent and it went nowhere. By saying what Barry put down, makes it seem like it was based on FO decision which resulted in the miss instead of the player value not being equal. We know if Cavs came back and said, give me another Pick and this little thing here, Miami would have done it. Any scouting department would have been fired for not doing so.

I’m not buying that, the FO fumbled that one bad being delusional about the type of player Herro is. We were coming off the 1st seed, Herro being the 6MOY, and 1 shot away from our 2nd finals in 3 years at that time, the genuinely believed Herro was close to Herro and they couldn’t have been more wrong.

Come on really, with all the scouting reports, Herro being blocked at the rim at a high rate, missing bunnies over bigger players, having a negative wingspan, mid athletism and lack of first step, low free throw rate due to the aforementioned, a 6th man defended by the other teams B team, low efficiency on high volume, horrible issues trying to break a trap, high turnover with multiple defenders, etc. As good as we are at scouting, everything says they used Barry to cover for Herro's lack of value even at the time, Utah aint idiots either, they looked at Lauri's and Sextons analytics and said hell yeah, and looked at Herro and said not enough.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Barry could just be reporting what was told vs what was actually presented too. If I am the heat I won't lower Herro's value by telling the NBA stratosphere that I offered Herro + 2 Picks + 1 young talent and it went nowhere. By saying what Barry put down, makes it seem like it was based on FO decision which resulted in the miss instead of the player value not being equal. We know if Cavs came back and said, give me another Pick and this little thing here, Miami would have done it. Any scouting department would have been fired for not doing so.

I’m not buying that, the FO fumbled that one bad being delusional about the type of player Herro is. We were coming off the 1st seed, Herro being the 6MOY, and 1 shot away from our 2nd finals in 3 years at that time, the genuinely believed Herro was close to Herro and they couldn’t have been more wrong.

Come on really, with all the scouting reports, Herro being blocked at the rim at a high rate, missing bunnies over bigger players, having a negative wingspan, mid athletism and lack of first step, low free throw rate due to the aforementioned, a 6th man defended by the other teams B team, low efficiency on high volume, horrible issues trying to break a trap, high turnover with multiple defenders, etc. As good as we are at scouting, everything says they used Barry to cover for Herro's lack of value even at the time, Utah aint idiots either, they looked at Lauri's and Sextons analytics and said hell yeah, and looked at Herro and said not enough.

That was also not the case, there were others saying the Heat only offered 1 1st, yalls boy Greg included.

Analytics on Lauri and especially Sexton were mediocre at best. Sextons were terrible.

We gotta stop making excuses for the FO every time they fumble

[MiamiLoyal926]

I’m not buying that, the FO fumbled that one bad being delusional about the type of player Herro is. We were coming off the 1st seed, Herro being the 6MOY, and 1 shot away from our 2nd finals in 3 years at that time, the genuinely believed Herro was close to Herro and they couldn’t have been more wrong.

Come on really, with all the scouting reports, Herro being blocked at the rim at a high rate, missing bunnies over bigger players, having a negative wingspan, mid athletism and lack of first step, low free throw rate due to the aforementioned, a 6th man defended by the other teams B team, low efficiency on high volume, horrible issues trying to break a trap, high turnover with multiple defenders, etc. As good as we are at scouting, everything says they used Barry to cover for Herro's lack of value even at the time, Utah aint idiots either, they looked at Lauri's and Sextons analytics and said hell yeah, and looked at Herro and said not enough.

That was also not the case, there were others saying the Heat only offered 1 1st, yalls boy Greg included.

Analytics on Lauri and especially Sexton were mediocre at best. Sextons were terrible.

We gotta stop making excuses for the FO every time they fumble

It does not matter whether you think we offered it or not… we simply did not have enough assets to beat that offer regardless!!! Get that through your head 3ammy! Cavs offer was more than our “all in” offer that summer. It’s a simple fact, unless you think Bam or Jimmy should have been included?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Come on really, with all the scouting reports, Herro being blocked at the rim at a high rate, missing bunnies over bigger players, having a negative wingspan, mid athletism and lack of first step, low free throw rate due to the aforementioned, a 6th man defended by the other teams B team, low efficiency on high volume, horrible issues trying to break a trap, high turnover with multiple defenders, etc. As good as we are at scouting, everything says they used Barry to cover for Herro's lack of value even at the time, Utah aint idiots either, they looked at Lauri's and Sextons analytics and said hell yeah, and looked at Herro and said not enough.

That was also not the case, there were others saying the Heat only offered 1 1st, yalls boy Greg included.

Analytics on Lauri and especially Sexton were mediocre at best. Sextons were terrible.

We gotta stop making excuses for the FO every time they fumble

It does not matter whether you think we offered it or not… we simply did not have enough assets to beat that offer regardless!!! Get that through your head 3ammy! Cavs offer was more than our “all in” offer that summer. It’s a simple fact, unless you think Bam or Jimmy should have been included?

Nope and I’ve already explained why, enjoy the win tonight!!

[MiamiLoyal926]

That was also not the case, there were others saying the Heat only offered 1 1st, yalls boy Greg included.

Analytics on Lauri and especially Sexton were mediocre at best. Sextons were terrible.

We gotta stop making excuses for the FO every time they fumble

It does not matter whether you think we offered it or not… we simply did not have enough assets to beat that offer regardless!!! Get that through your head 3ammy! Cavs offer was more than our “all in” offer that summer. It’s a simple fact, unless you think Bam or Jimmy should have been included?

Nope and I’ve already explained why, enjoy the win tonight!!

What offer/assets did we have that was better than the Cavs’ offer… please explain because you have not. You have only shared a narrative pushed by journalists who are often wrong and off base. Even then, if those narratives coming from Heat brass, they are clearly used to save face after we could not land DM and a way of elevating the image of our own player. Literally the same tactic was used after the Dame debacle.

(And yes, great win tonight!)

[3ammy3uck3ts]

It does not matter whether you think we offered it or not… we simply did not have enough assets to beat that offer regardless!!! Get that through your head 3ammy! Cavs offer was more than our “all in” offer that summer. It’s a simple fact, unless you think Bam or Jimmy should have been included?

Nope and I’ve already explained why, enjoy the win tonight!!

What offer/assets did we have that was better than the Cavs’ offer… please explain because you have not. You have only shared a narrative pushed by journalists who are often wrong and off base. Even then, if those narratives coming from Heat brass, they are clearly used to save face after we could not land DM and a way of elevating the image of our own player. Literally the same tactic was used after the Dame debacle.

(And yes, great win tonight!)

Go back and read brother!

[GopherIt!]

naw

[MiamiLoyal926]

Nope and I’ve already explained why, enjoy the win tonight!!

What offer/assets did we have that was better than the Cavs’ offer… please explain because you have not. You have only shared a narrative pushed by journalists who are often wrong and off base. Even then, if those narratives coming from Heat brass, they are clearly used to save face after we could not land DM and a way of elevating the image of our own player. Literally the same tactic was used after the Dame debacle.

(And yes, great win tonight!)

Go back and read brother!

As I thought… you don’t have anything. You are just pushing propaganda in here like usual. Rather than I go back, you should revisit those threads from summer 2022 to get a pulse on what our available assets were then and what our best trade packages looked like.

[Dc__20]

Thanases antenkoumpo is the kinda guy who calls next at a pickup game and you just know some uncoordinated stupid play is gonna get someone hurt

[MiamiLoyal926]

Nope and I’ve already explained why, enjoy the win tonight!!

What offer/assets did we have that was better than the Cavs’ offer… please explain because you have not. You have only shared a narrative pushed by journalists who are often wrong and off base. Even then, if those narratives coming from Heat brass, they are clearly used to save face after we could not land DM and a way of elevating the image of our own player. Literally the same tactic was used after the Dame debacle.

(And yes, great win tonight!)

Go back and read brother!

Here are the facts:

The Cavaliers sent Lauri Markkanen, Ochai Agbaji (that summers #14 pick), and Collin Sexton + three unprotected first-round picks (2025, 2027 and 2029) and two pick swaps (2026 and 2028) for Mitchell.

For us, we maybe would have been able to muster up at best the same number of draft picks. Assuming the Jazz considered our picks equal to the Cavs, but the reality is that our picks are viewed as worse.

So the real tangible difference maker was our best package of players out of this crop:

Bam
Jimmy
Herro (Considered nearly equal in skill to Herro then on a cheaper contract)
Lowry(only 1 year since trade)
Oladipo
Robinson (considered a negative asset then)
Jovic (that summers #27 pick)
Dedmond (Just signed so untradable)
UD
Martín (Just signed so untradable)
Highsmith (an unknown G Leaguer)
Max Strus (gained value after that summer)
Gabe Vincent (gained value after that summer)
Yurtseven
+other GLeaguers / 2-way contracts

What player package can you muster up that was beating the Cavs offer?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

What offer/assets did we have that was better than the Cavs’ offer… please explain because you have not. You have only shared a narrative pushed by journalists who are often wrong and off base. Even then, if those narratives coming from Heat brass, they are clearly used to save face after we could not land DM and a way of elevating the image of our own player. Literally the same tactic was used after the Dame debacle.

(And yes, great win tonight!)

Go back and read brother!

Here are the facts:

The Cavaliers sent Lauri Markkanen, Ochai Agbaji (that summers #14 pick), and Collin Sexton + three unprotected first-round picks (2025, 2027 and 2029) and two pick swaps (2026 and 2028) for Mitchell.

For us, we maybe would have been able to muster up at best the same number of draft picks. Assuming the Jazz considered our picks equal to the Cavs, but the reality is that our picks are viewed as worse.

So the real tangible difference maker was our best package of players out of this crop:

Bam
Jimmy
Herro (Considered nearly equal in skill to Herro then on a cheaper contract)
Lowry(only 1 year since trade)
Oladipo
Robinson (considered a negative asset then)
Jovic (that summers #27 pick)
Dedmond (Just signed so untradable)
UD
Martín (Just signed so untradable)
Highsmith (an unknown G Leaguer)
Max Strus (gained value after that summer)
Gabe Vincent (gained value after that summer)
Yurtseven
+other GLeaguers / 2-way contracts

What player package can you muster up that was beating the Cavs offer?

At that point in time Herro and Jovic beat that player package, especially when you factor in Ainges love for Herro. Throw Dipo in if you have to. Also had 2nd round picks that I believe could’ve been sent to OKC at that time to remove protections and unlock another pick.

Again; Lauri was a mid tier role player when sent to Utah, sexton showed no impact to winning at all and his advanced numbers were terrible while he was also coming off a season long injury that kept him out all year. Herro was coming off 6MOY as a 1st seed that was 1 shot away from the finals.

Mitchell thought he was coming here, had we not stubbornly believed Herro was anywhere near the same stratosphere as a player like Mitchell he likely would be.