PG: Refs and Thibs f*Ck us

[KnicksGadfly]

Overall Deuce has played well this season and has given a positive impact in a lot of wins. He only played 5min and was 2-2 with 4 points.

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

Nah he's much better defensively than Burks, faster, stronger, long arms

Meh just a replaceable bench player

[mpharris36]

Who is Thibs supposed to bench AB for when he only has 8 active players?

Overall Deuce has played well this season and has given a positive impact in a lot of wins. He only played 5min and was 2-2 with 4 points.

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

is he? He has a 6'9 wingspan and Burks is 6'10. And Duece competes really well on the defensive end while Burks...well if you watch him he makes a lot of business decision...doesn't fight through screens, doesn't block out or rebound...isn't physical at all.

Would absolutely trust Duece defensively with whatever perceived lack of size off ball with brunson than Burks.

[KnicksGadfly]

Overall Deuce has played well this season and has given a positive impact in a lot of wins. He only played 5min and was 2-2 with 4 points.

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

is he? He has a 6'9 wingspan and Burks is 6'10. And Duece competes really well on the defensive end while Burks...well if you watch him he makes a lot of business decision...doesn't fight through screens, doesn't block out or rebound...isn't physical at all.

Would absolutely trust Duece defensively with whatever perceived lack of size off ball with brunson than Burks.

That’s on Thibs though. He’s a good coach but he’s stuck in his ways. He also probably requires more scoring ability on the bench. He’s often had a micro scorer that he used to great effect.

[GONYK]

Overall Deuce has played well this season and has given a positive impact in a lot of wins. He only played 5min and was 2-2 with 4 points.

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

But Burks came in for Brunson to play PG and Thibs went with a 7 man rotation after playing all the starters the entire 3rd quarter. Donte stayed in for 27 straight minutes and eventually had to get medically taken out of the game. 6’0” Holiday destroyed Burks too

If your argument is that Deuce should have played more, I can totally see that.

If the argument is that Deuce should have played more with Brunson, I will say that even if you can make the case, it will never happen. It's just too small and the Knicks entire FO was committed to putting size around Brunson.

We were getting killed on the interior and needed as much size as possible.

[K_ick_God]

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

Nah he's much better defensively than Burks, faster, stronger, long arms

Meh just a replaceable bench player

Almost all players are replaceable ... you have to figure out which ones have some special qualities and which ones you shouldn't pay $20M+

[GONYK]

Overall Deuce has played well this season and has given a positive impact in a lot of wins. He only played 5min and was 2-2 with 4 points.

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

is he? He has a 6'9 wingspan and Burks is 6'10. And Duece competes really well on the defensive end while Burks...well if you watch him he makes a lot of business decision...doesn't fight through screens, doesn't block out or rebound...isn't physical at all.

Would absolutely trust Duece defensively with whatever perceived lack of size off ball with brunson than Burks.

You guys are doing a lot of tapdancing to pretend there isn't a difference between 6'1" and 6'5"

[GONYK]

I'm not sure what the value is in judging this current rotation in any meaningful way.

Nothing matters until Julius and OG get back. We just have to survive.

like, at least OG and hartenstein.

Yup. There are no functional 2-way lineup options for Thibs right now without those guys. We're either too small, too sh*tty on offense, or too sh*tty on defense.

[stuporman]

If not 3rd seed then 6th seed...silver lining in this is still possible.

[KnixinSix]

Listen Thibs is not a perfect coach. He is somewhat unadaptable and flexible. HOWEVER what he is is an extremely good system coach. If he gets the right players to execute his system he becomes an excellent excellent coach. Right now these current pieces do not make it as easy to run his system ideally especially when we are missing the bigs down low. Our injuries are focused on the entire frontcourt and it really hurts what he is trying to do.

Bottomline is we need OG and one of our C's back the most out of everybody in terms of re-establishing a suffocating defense. Randle is also huge but not as much for the defensive side of it but for the offensive side which is also taking a hit without him in the lineup.

[mpharris36]

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

But Burks came in for Brunson to play PG and Thibs went with a 7 man rotation after playing all the starters the entire 3rd quarter. Donte stayed in for 27 straight minutes and eventually had to get medically taken out of the game. 6’0” Holiday destroyed Burks too

If your argument is that Deuce should have played more, I can totally see that.

If the argument is that Deuce should have played more with Brunson, I will say that even if you can make the case, it will never happen. It's just too small and the Knicks entire FO was committed to putting size around Brunson.

We were getting killed on the interior and needed as much size as possible.

whats the point of the additional size if Burks plays small. I would think you would want the better POA defender out there so Brunson can play off ball and not have to chase around the best ball handler anyway.

[stuporman]

After last game it seemed I got some indirect criticism for a reasonable description about the state of the Knicks that certainly was lengthy I suppose, but I'm glad to see that the forum hasn't abandoned the staple of emotional outbursts that don't exceed 140 characters...I wouldn't have wanted to ruin that.

[mpharris36]

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

is he? He has a 6'9 wingspan and Burks is 6'10. And Duece competes really well on the defensive end while Burks...well if you watch him he makes a lot of business decision...doesn't fight through screens, doesn't block out or rebound...isn't physical at all.

Would absolutely trust Duece defensively with whatever perceived lack of size off ball with brunson than Burks.

You guys are doing a lot of tapdancing to pretend there isn't a difference between 6'1" and 6'5"

I didn't think you contested shots with your head...there have been plenty of short guys that guard up because that have good strength and wingspan.

[cgmw]

Overall Deuce has played well this season and has given a positive impact in a lot of wins. He only played 5min and was 2-2 with 4 points.

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

is he? He has a 6'9 wingspan and Burks is 6'10. And Duece competes really well on the defensive end while Burks...well if you watch him he makes a lot of business decision...doesn't fight through screens, doesn't block out or rebound...isn't physical at all.

Would absolutely trust Duece defensively with whatever perceived lack of size off ball with brunson than Burks.

My issue with Burks is that he enables the worst offensive tendencies from Thibs and the other 4 guys. I think of Thibs as a blunt instrument because he always chooses the simplest way to solve a problem instead of trying to teach the better, more complex solution.

Simple: AB iso rim attack offense
Complex: Ball movement team offense

Deuce will sit and Thibs will rely on AB to carry the second unit through a dozen or so minutes per game without Brunson on the floor playing D-Rose in the patented Thibs caveman 4-out iso offense.

Deuce will be a regular contributor if/only if he learns to be a selfish iso-rim attack guard, which is the one and only role Thibs wants from his lead guard.

[Guano]

So far Burks is avg 28 shots per 100 possessions with a 31.3% usage

On Det he avg 20-21 shots per 100 possessions with a 23% usage.

The worst part is Burks is getting rewarded with more minutes. Thibs needs an intervention.

For comparison:
Brunson avgs 28.2 shots per 100
Randle avgs 25.5 shots per 100

Pure madness!

burks is an azzhole

[GONYK]

But Burks came in for Brunson to play PG and Thibs went with a 7 man rotation after playing all the starters the entire 3rd quarter. Donte stayed in for 27 straight minutes and eventually had to get medically taken out of the game. 6’0” Holiday destroyed Burks too

If your argument is that Deuce should have played more, I can totally see that.

If the argument is that Deuce should have played more with Brunson, I will say that even if you can make the case, it will never happen. It's just too small and the Knicks entire FO was committed to putting size around Brunson.

We were getting killed on the interior and needed as much size as possible.

whats the point of the additional size if Burks plays small. I would think you would want the better POA defender out there so Brunson can play off ball and not have to chase around the best ball handler anyway.

I didn't think you contested shots with your head...there have been plenty of short guys that guard up because that have good strength and wingspan.

Burks isn't out there to provide the best defense possible. He's out there to provide size, scoring, and playmaking next to either Brunson or Deuce.

Judging him outside of that lens doesn't make sense. If Deuce is going to play more, it is going to be next to AB.

[mpharris36]

we have a short bench and thibs played mcbride 5 minutes (and mcbride was solid in those minutes too).

So he's going to have to play some minutes with Brunson unless you expect Brunson to play 36 minutes which is laughable under thibs.

No one is saying the knicks aren't short handed (however a big reason they short handed is thibs reckless minute distribution and lack of faith in some capable bench players).

Donte played 41 of the possible 43 minutes...if you telling me that is because Thibs refuses to play Mcbride with Brunson...then he is a joke. Many teams play two small guards. And its not like Mcbride is a bad defender....he is a more disruptive defender then Burks.

I don't see how that is a valid defense of Thibs minute distribution. He's literally picking off our guys 1 by 1 with this reckless minutes...and Precious will be the next to go down...just watch.

[stuporman]

This is your friendly reminder that just because the Knicks may get a different coach doesn't mean it would be a better coach, just a different one and if history is any indicator, it probably won't be a better one.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Sure, but Deuce is too small to share the floor with Brunson. AB doesn't have that issue. That is why we got him.

But Burks came in for Brunson to play PG and Thibs went with a 7 man rotation after playing all the starters the entire 3rd quarter. Donte stayed in for 27 straight minutes and eventually had to get medically taken out of the game. 6’0” Holiday destroyed Burks too

If your argument is that Deuce should have played more, I can totally see that.

If the argument is that Deuce should have played more with Brunson, I will say that even if you can make the case, it will never happen. It's just too small and the Knicks entire FO was committed to putting size around Brunson.

We were getting killed on the interior and needed as much size as possible.

I would like to see some more minutes with Deuce and Brunson especially when we are so banged up. But can understand the flaws in that and at this point Thibs is too stubborn. Plenty of teams play small backcourts for limited min

But yea, def making the bigger case that Deuce should have played more in general at the least as Brunsons backup. 7 man rotation with all 5 starters playing the entire quarter is not sustainable. It led to Donte getting hurt….now we probably have no choice but to see Deuce and Brunson on the floor together next game.

In terms of Burks, we need him to play minutes. But we need him to stay in his role and keep under control. He shouldn’t be playing pg out there unless it’s a last resort. Let him back up the 2/3, let Deuce backup Brunson and spread the minutes around better and stagger. It really shouldn’t be this complicated or controversial to have a somewhat normal rotation rather than running the starters into the ground every game.

[mpharris36]

If your argument is that Deuce should have played more, I can totally see that.

If the argument is that Deuce should have played more with Brunson, I will say that even if you can make the case, it will never happen. It's just too small and the Knicks entire FO was committed to putting size around Brunson.

We were getting killed on the interior and needed as much size as possible.

whats the point of the additional size if Burks plays small. I would think you would want the better POA defender out there so Brunson can play off ball and not have to chase around the best ball handler anyway.

I didn't think you contested shots with your head...there have been plenty of short guys that guard up because that have good strength and wingspan.

Burks isn't out there to provide the best defense possible. He's out there to provide size, scoring, and playmaking next to either Brunson or Deuce.

Judging him outside of that lens doesn't make sense. If Deuce is going to play more, it is going to be next to AB.

again what is size? what does it help you with?

I watch Caruso defend guys way bigger then him...should he not defend PF's because of size? Marcus Smart is short and he defends up because of his strength and wingspan.

What did Burks size help with last night with Amen Thompson grabbing ever loose ball and rebound over him because Burks is soft as charmin. At least Deuce will try to box him out and battle. I could care less about size if he's just going to stand around an not do anything. And I don't need his offense next to Brunson because Burks is a chuck. I would rather have Duece who has been great in C&S this season anyway.

Better defender...equally good in C&S..and I certaintly don't need Burks playmaking...since it doesn't exist...he playmakes for the other team with his horrible turnovers.

Burks should be in when Brunson is out and that is it...because we could maybe use his extra scoring with no brunson on the court...with Brunson on the court...I don't want to see Burks ever

[Deeeez Knicks]

whats the point of the additional size if Burks plays small. I would think you would want the better POA defender out there so Brunson can play off ball and not have to chase around the best ball handler anyway.

I didn't think you contested shots with your head...there have been plenty of short guys that guard up because that have good strength and wingspan.

Burks isn't out there to provide the best defense possible. He's out there to provide size, scoring, and playmaking next to either Brunson or Deuce.

Judging him outside of that lens doesn't make sense. If Deuce is going to play more, it is going to be next to AB.

again what is size? what does it help you with?

I watch Caruso defend guys way bigger then him...should he not defend PF's because of size? Marcus Smart is short and he defends up because of his strength and wingspan.

What did Burks size help with last night with Amen Thompson grabbing ever loose ball and rebound over him because Burks is soft as charmin. At least Deuce will try to box him out and battle. I could care less about size if he's just going to stand around an not do anything. And I don't need his offense next to Brunson because Burks is a chuck. I would rather have Duece who has been great in C&S this season anyway.

Better defender...equally good in C&S..and I certaintly don't need Burks playmaking...since it doesn't exist...he playmakes for the other team with his horrible turnovers.

Burks should be in when Brunson is out and that is it...because we could maybe use his extra scoring with no brunson on the court...with Brunson on the court...I don't want to see Burks ever

Houston brought it with physical play, athleticism, and youthful energy…..it was the type of game we needed someone like Deuce