Deni Avdija - Part II

[Eyalley-oop]

Agreed. This play wasn't just some change in the team's offensive philosophy. Deni just got better. The idea that he was capable of doing this 2 years ago but we just refused to try it is silly.

2 years ago he wasn't capable of doing everything he does today, but skill wise he was capable of doing easy layups under the basket, and yet he struggled with that as well in the NBA while he didn't in Europe, and that's got to do a lot with what was going on in his mind, not in practicing layups which he did since he was a child.


Why every time I write here people twist my words to a completely different meaning of what I've said? I wrote "a completely different player", I didn't say he was capable of scoring 43 or 25 points a game, I said a different player, and I stand by it, if you'll look at my posts from Deni's first year I've said exactly that, he's one player in the NT, playing with confidence and going strong to the basket time after time while scoring on NBA players like Jokic and he's another player in the NBA, just standing in the corner waiting and missing easy shots under the rim, and I've said the reason for that is mainly his confidence and that it will improve if the ball will move more and he won't feel like every time he touch it it's his only chance to do something, Deni improved, yes, please quote me with where I've said he didn't, but thinking that his improvement in aggressiveness got nothing to do with his confidence and how he feels about his role in the team, that's silly.

[tontoz]

What's changed is his confidence, and that's because of the ball movement

So let's see some examples of this great ball movement that has unlocked Deni. His highlights are on youtube for each game. they shouldn't be hard to find.

[Eyalley-oop]

Why don't you point out the examples of Deni scoring off "ball movement". I won't hold my breath.

Who said anything about scoring from ball movement? show me a quote, I won't hold my breath, I've said his confidence improved because of the ball movement! be less obtuse yourself and try to understand what you read for a change.

[tontoz]

Why don't you point out the examples of Deni scoring off "ball movement". I won't hold my breath.

Who said anything about scoring from ball movement? show me a quote, I won't hold my breath, I've said his confidence improved because of the ball movement! be less obtuse yourself and try to understand what you read for a change.

So how exactly did his confidence improve from "ball movement"? Was it from Poole passing to Kispert? Did his confidence improve from other guys passing to each other?

[badinage]

You’re both right.

He’s flourishing because he’s put in the work on his shot and his handle and is, no doubt as a result, showing more assertiveness in going and getting his.

It’s also that the offense isn’t bogging down because one dude is pounding the ball looking for a crack in the defense or they’re going iso all the time or players are coming down every other possession and launching 3s. Guys are getting touches. The ball is moving more. That can only help a player like this.

[nate33]

Agreed. This play wasn't just some change in the team's offensive philosophy. Deni just got better. The idea that he was capable of doing this 2 years ago but we just refused to try it is silly.

2 years ago he wasn't capable of doing everything he does today, but skill wise he was capable of doing easy layups under the basket, and yet he struggled with that as well in the NBA while he didn't in Europe, and that's got to do a lot with what was going on in his mind, not in practicing layups which he did since he was a child.


Why every time I write here people twist my words to a completely different meaning of what I've said? I wrote "a completely different player", I didn't say he was capable of scoring 43 or 25 points a game, I said a different player, and I stand by it, if you'll look at my posts from Deni's first year I've said exactly that, he's one player in the NT, playing with confidence and going strong to the basket time after time while scoring on NBA players like Jokic and he's another player in the NBA, just standing in the corner waiting and missing easy shots under the rim, and I've said the reason for that is mainly his confidence and that it will improve if the ball will move more and he won't feel like every time he touch it it's his only chance to do something, Deni improved, yes, please quote me with where I've said he didn't, but thinking that his improvement in aggressiveness got nothing to do with his confidence and how he feels about his role in the team, that's silly.

Your mistake is in concluding that the difference between Deni overseas and Deni here is the style of offense. The difference is the athleticism of the wing defenders and in the way the rules are enforced. They let you play defense with more contact overseas, so it's much harder to score in isolation and you are forced to move the ball and play a decentralized offense. In the NBA, a good scorer can pretty much score at will in isolation, particularly against a switch; but mediocre scorers have trouble scoring when guarded closely because in general NBA defenders are longer and more athletic. So offenses are geared toward a "defense bender plus role players" configuration. Get the ball to your best scorer, and the role players only shoot when double teams give them open looks.

Until this season, Deni wasn't good enough offensively to be a defense bender. Now he is. So now he is getting the opportunity.

[tontoz]

Interesting vid I watched the other day. This guy breaks down several plays from the Mavs game. There was one in particular that stood out.

At the 2:55 mark Deni had the ball up top guarded by Luka. He was looking to pass to Kuzma and Kuzma waved him off, telling him to go at Luka pretty emphatically.

It goes without saying that Deni was scoring off the dribble, not because of the ball swinging around.


https://youtu.be/YBHeD2PDbn0?si=TmNxfUrMSyMJ-PV9

[Eyalley-oop]

What's changed is his confidence, and that's because of the ball movement

So let's see some examples of this great ball movement that has unlocked Deni. His highlights are on youtube for each game. they shouldn't be hard to find.

Ball movement, only from last game:

[Eyalley-oop]

Why don't you point out the examples of Deni scoring off "ball movement". I won't hold my breath.

Who said anything about scoring from ball movement? show me a quote, I won't hold my breath, I've said his confidence improved because of the ball movement! be less obtuse yourself and try to understand what you read for a change.

So how exactly did his confidence improve from "ball movement"? Was it from Poole passing to Kispert? Did his confidence improve from other guys passing to each other?

If you think that doesn't help then you're just showing you never actually played basketball in your life, or any other team sport.

[tontoz]

What's changed is his confidence, and that's because of the ball movement

So let's see some examples of this great ball movement that has unlocked Deni. His highlights are on youtube for each game. they shouldn't be hard to find.

Ball movement, only from last game:

I counted one basket from Deni in that entire vid, at the 10 second mark, when he caught the ball outside the 3 pt line and drove to the rim for a score.

And pretty much every play in that vid started with someone taking it to the basket off the dribble, which caused the defense to rotate, and then opened up passing opportunities.

That is why I was begging Deni to drive for 3 years, because it forces the defense to react. It is pretty easy to guard someone that doesn't move after they catch the ball.

[Runner300]

Do you think a sudden change in the offense is the reason Deni is going off?



Deni is doing almost all of his damage off the dribble. He is just going at guys 1 on 1. He isn't scoring from off ball catch and shoot plays like Klay Thompson. He gets the ball on the perimeter and drives, something he seemed scared to do in his 1st 3 seasons.

What's changed is his confidence, and that's because of the ball movement and that's what I was saying that will happen from day 1, other than saying that I won't bother to engage in a serious conversation with you, I don't know what's your problem and the reason for your awful attitude, but I recommend you seek professional help to deal with all of that rage.

All of Deni's highlights from recent games are on youtube. Why don't you point out the examples of Deni scoring off "ball movement". I won't hold my breath.

Kuzma and Poole didn't suddenly decide to play unselfishly.

You are just too obtuse to recognize the obvious. Deni can't score unless he actually does something with the ball when he gets it. He wasn't doing that for 3 years. Now he is.

They are running more plays for him now.
Most of his drives or pull up shots are a result of proper ball and player movement.
Like setting a proper pick, or properly spacing the floor, etc.
Presence of a proper PG and absence of a one Kuzma - also helps.
It's all on Youtube.

[tontoz]

They are running more plays for him now.
Most of his drives or pull up shots are a result of proper ball and player movement.
Like setting a proper pick, or properly spacing the floor, etc.
Presence of a proper PG and absence of a one Kuzma - also helps.
It's all on Youtube.

Running plays for him? He is going at guys 1 on 1 and scoring. He has been successful at it which leads to him getting more touches. Sometimes he gets a pick but most of the time he isn't. He is just going at guys off the dribble, something he rarely did in his first 3 seasons.

Sometimes he just brings the ball up, drives and scores without anyone else even touching the ball.

I just posted a film breakdown of the Mavs game and the guy was showing Deni scoring off the dribble over and over. It wasn't due to any scheme or ball movement.

[Eyalley-oop]

Your mistake is in concluding that the difference between Deni overseas and Deni here is the style of offense.

No, if I concluded anything is JUST that the difference is because his confidence is different which derived from how he sees his role in the team, there's a difference between standing on the 3pt line and waiting to a ball that almost never comes to feeling you're part of the offense, and that's all I've said, you can say Deni wasn't good enough a few years ago to have a more predominant role and I won't argue with it, but that doesn't contradict my claim that he had confidence / mental issues which affected the way he played, I never said he hasn't improved his skills or that improving them didn't helped with his confidence as well, I only said that the ball movement helped a lot, and I'll add that I think him being a relative "veteran" in this roster helped as well.

[Eyalley-oop]

So let's see some examples of this great ball movement that has unlocked Deni. His highlights are on youtube for each game. they shouldn't be hard to find.

Ball movement, only from last game:

I counted one basket from Deni in that entire vid, at the 10 second mark, when he caught the ball outside the 3 pt line and drove to the rim for a score.

I ask again, who said anything about Deni scoring from the ball movement? I'm still waiting for you to show me a quote of me saying that, you asked me to show you "some examples of this great ball movement", I've showed you, but that's ok, I'm not holding my breath for that quote and I'm not holding it for you to say you were wrong.

[nate33]

Your mistake is in concluding that the difference between Deni overseas and Deni here is the style of offense.

No, if I concluded anything is JUST that the difference is because his confidence is different which derived from how he sees his role in the team, there's a difference between standing on the 3pt line and waiting to a ball that almost never comes to feeling you're part of the offense, and that's all I've said, you can say Deni wasn't good enough a few years ago to have a more predominant role and I won't argue with it, but that doesn't contradict my claim that he had confidence / mental issues which affected the way he played, I never said he hasn't improved his skills or that improving them didn't helped with his confidence as well, I only said that the ball movement helped a lot, and I'll add that I think him being a relative "veteran" in this roster helped as well.

Well yeah, sure. Confidence has helped. But he got confident because he got better and was then rewarded with more usage.

I just reject the narrative that his earlier struggles and his recent breakout are the results of changes in team's offensive philosophy - that the team was somehow "wrong" in their utilization of Deni at first, and are now "right" and it is paying off.

I think you have the cause and effect backwards. Deni got better individually, and then the team adapted and began to utilize his improved skillset effectively.

[Runner300]

They are running more plays for him now.
Most of his drives or pull up shots are a result of proper ball and player movement.
Like setting a proper pick, or properly spacing the floor, etc.
Presence of a proper PG and absence of a one Kuzma - also helps.
It's all on Youtube.

Running plays for him? He is going at guys 1 on 1 and scoring. He has been successful at it which leads to him getting more touches. Sometimes he gets a pick but most of the time he isn't. He is just going at guys off the dribble, something he rarely did in his first 3 seasons.

Sometimes he just brings the ball up, drives and scores without anyone else even touching the ball.

I just posted a film breakdown of the Mavs game and the guy was showing Deni scoring off the dribble over and over. It wasn't due to any scheme or ball movement.

Yes, they run plays for him.
A lot of his 3pt shots in last games are free corner 3's that come from a planned attack.
Also he doesn't just go 1v1 on a random defender.

[tontoz]

They are running more plays for him now.
Most of his drives or pull up shots are a result of proper ball and player movement.
Like setting a proper pick, or properly spacing the floor, etc.
Presence of a proper PG and absence of a one Kuzma - also helps.
It's all on Youtube.

Running plays for him? He is going at guys 1 on 1 and scoring. He has been successful at it which leads to him getting more touches. Sometimes he gets a pick but most of the time he isn't. He is just going at guys off the dribble, something he rarely did in his first 3 seasons.

Sometimes he just brings the ball up, drives and scores without anyone else even touching the ball.

I just posted a film breakdown of the Mavs game and the guy was showing Deni scoring off the dribble over and over. It wasn't due to any scheme or ball movement.

Yes, they run plays for him.
A lot of his 3pt shots in last games are free corner 3's that come from a planned attack.
Also he doesn't just go 1v1 on a random defender.

Per 36 minutes Deni is taking fewer 3 pt attempts this year than last year.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Where you at Prime1Time & queridiculo?

But kidding aside, next step is Deni handling an increased focus on scouting reports.

[Runner300]

Per 36 minutes Deni is taking fewer 3 pt attempts this year than last year.

This stat isn't relevant for this discussion.
How many of those 3's are easy shots?
Also, I mentioned "last games", and in last 5 games he has taken 4.4 3pt attempts per game.

[Eyalley-oop]

Well yeah, sure. Confidence has helped. But he got confident because he got better and was then rewarded with more usage.

I just reject the narrative that his earlier struggles and his recent breakout are the results of changes in team's offensive philosophy - that the team was somehow "wrong" in their development of Deni at first, and are now "right" and it is paying off.

I think you have the cause and effect backwards. Deni got better individually, and then the team adapted and began to utilize his improved skillset effectively

It's a chicken and the egg argument, and still, you can't say this team was the international gold standard of players development or organized offense(or defense) in recent years, if the team wasn't wrong why they fired their GM? if they weren't wrong why they fired 2 coaches? if they weren't wrong why a good portion of this forum was complaining about Deni being benched and getting a short leash while others who played worse than him wasn't?