PG: Memphis Blues

[steger_3434]

Dame is Gary Payton. Laughed at when I said it but it’s closer to reality than those that mocked that comparison thought. Same has been given the longest leash I’ve ever seen on this board. Excuse after excuse for him.


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[StickeeFingaz]

I appreciate what Doc said in his presser. At least I feel comfortable that he sees the issues.

[Coach Carter]

The last time we looked like real contenders was when we beat boston on the road to go up 3-2. I don't remember a side with two superstars being this bad. Don't think Dame is cooked, he can still blow past most defenders and the shooting will improve once he sorts his head out.

[jschligs]

Dame is Gary Payton. Laughed at when I said it but it’s closer to reality than those that mocked that comparison thought. Same has been given the longest leash I’ve ever seen on this board. Excuse after excuse for him.


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I mentioned earlier that my leash had shortened. That was before last night. I got rid of the leash and I'm just grabbing him by the neck. He has been AWFUL since mid-December and because of that we are going nowhere fast. I can't complain about Pat, or Bobby, or Brook, or whoever. Dame deserves 90% of the blame here.

[BigO]

These post-loss sections are my favorite part of Real GM. The posters who people usually ignore because of how ridiculous the posts are, feel energized.

I also feel energized because it makes me feel better about myself. There's nothing like post-loss threads to build ones ego. Trade Giannis. Giannis is the problem. He refuses to be coached. Bud was great.

There's always a home for bad ideas.

But amidst all these overreactions and bad analysis, there are some really good posts:

1) Brook, especially when Giannis is sitting, needs to post up more, and stop shooting the threes. There is a reason he isn't guarded out there. No Bucks coach has ever told Brook not to shoot so many threes or to use his post up skills.

2) The only two players who came to play last night, and who are earning the level of their salary, are Giannis and BP. Both came to play and both played well. Doc was right that the rest of them looked uninterested. PC needs to sit. Beasley needs to stop taking any threes unless they are corner threes or top of the key threes.

I'm guardedly optimistic. The Bucks weren't winning a title with Bud/McCarthy as their coach. The top players had tuned him out for very good reasons, which I have detailed many times. And Jrue was not a great fit because he can't shoot on a team lacking shooters.

Why guardedly optimistic?

1) It all comes down to two players, will Lillard play to his level and will KM be healthy? This is still a game of stars and if they play to their regular level, they have a decent shot.

2) In the playoffs, it's a slower game, teams need shot makers. With a regular Lillard, Bucks have enough to prevail.

3) Obviously the defense has to improve and I'm counting on the 30 coaches the Bucks have to come up with something.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Bud is a good coach, maybe he should have continued maybe not. But he is gone, the problem is we did not do a good job replacing him and the roster is old and for the most part mediocre.

bud got the most out of every roster he ever had. like literally zero exception.

obviously we were not a dynastic team that was going to win 2-3 titles in the years he was here unless health and luck had been on our side. things that had NOTHING to do with him.

so now, or even with a full on rebuild....is when we would have needed him most

im sure miami is glad they hung onto spoelsta after lebron left as they did for example. hes a great coach that gets the most out of rosters too.

obviously if bud had decided to leave and grow weed with nelson that would have been out of our control.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Before the bucks traded for Dame I said the perception of Dame was better than the reality and some of his faults got ignored because the media/fans like him. It's why I didn't think his actual trade value was quite as high the national media made it out to be in July.

But even the real Dame was someone I was in favor of trading for because I thought they needed a offensive player like him in the post season and I thought the bucks roster could hide his d.

It's been worse than I expected but he still has a chance to prove his worth in the playoffs but he definitely needs to play better.

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[DanteSunday]

The coaching blunder of not hiring Nurse still sucks, but I don’t think coaching is the main issue now with Griffin outta here. Doc/Joerger have cleaned up the transition D and I don’t think there’s anything we’re doing schematically that I find to be glaringly stupid anymore, or at least not anything that I think the coaching staff is preaching. If you want to nitpick the rotations/management of vets over young guys, fine.

At this point it’s squarely on the players imo. Dame pretty much **** sucks by Portland Dame standards and his energy kinda feels like it’s infecting others on the team. Pat isn’t a viable player anymore. Bobby is as fraudulent a box score stat stuffer as he’s ever been. Khris being out, despite what his haters on this board would have you believe, is a real blow. The young guys outside of Green are either not ready or flat out busts.

10000% THIS !! We are way beyond a Bud/Griff/Doc debate at this point. My hope has been this will turn around like the Clippers situation did. And that didn't happen until Westbrook became the sixth man. Maybe some form of a Middleton/Bev/Gallinari/Green/Giannis rotation may provide a spark?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

the best part of these pg threads is when i say calmly in a general way.....the same things ive said since the summer and guys who argued with me then still want to argue when everything i predicted has transpired. well its really not arguing anymore now its just l insulting my intelligence

thats whats happening in these pg threads for guys that dont have real answers. question anybody that questions the dame trade or bud firing as if theyre morons

and directly.... if youre going to make a veiled response that is directly insulting me Big O.... then why not just quote me. Do you think its somehow less of a dick move if you dont quote me? That your more of the adult in the room if you spew this stuff without the quote?

and you do realize i post about the IQ of the team while youre notorious about posting about posters intelligence?

are you really ok with that? does that make you feel good about yourself?

[emunney]

Yeah that didn't happen.

which one better

18 points 7-11 shooting, 12 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 steals 2 TO

24 points 7-21 FG 3-13 3PM 5 rebounds 7 assist, 1 steal , 4 turnovers

Lol the argument that Vince Williams Jr. didn't outplay Dame is hilarious. More efficient, better on the boards, and less idiotic late game turnovers.

Dame has been ass. I've been patient with him, and at one point looked like he was having a decent game (I think he was like 3/7 from deep at one point) and then he goes ice cold and makes some of the dumbest passes ever, almost worse than the dumb **** Jrue used to do. This team needs to figure it out, or Dame needs to figure it out otherwise we are toast potentially in the first round.

Alright. I hate to pull the "watch the game" card but Williams was almost exclusively guarded by Crowder and Pat. The idea that this was a 'direct matchup' is hilarious. There were like two plays where Dame was even involved and he drew a charge on one of them.

[emunney]

These post-loss sections are my favorite part of Real GM. The posters who people usually ignore because of how ridiculous the posts are, feel energized.

I also feel energized because it makes me feel better about myself. There's nothing like post-loss threads to build ones ego. Trade Giannis. Giannis is the problem. He refuses to be coached. Bud was great.

There's always a home for bad ideas.

But amidst all these overreactions and bad analysis, there are some really good posts:

1) Brook, especially when Giannis is sitting, needs to post up more, and stop shooting the threes. There is a reason he isn't guarded out there. No Bucks coach has ever told Brook not to shoot so many threes or to use his post up skills.

2) The only two players who came to play last night, and who are earning the level of their salary, are Giannis and BP. Both came to play and both played well. Doc was right that the rest of them looked uninterested. PC needs to sit. Beasley needs to stop taking any threes unless they are corner threes or top of the key threes.

I'm guardedly optimistic. The Bucks weren't winning a title with Bud/McCarthy as their coach. The top players had tuned him out for very good reasons, which I have detailed many times. And Jrue was not a great fit because he can't shoot on a team lacking shooters.

Why guardedly optimistic?

1) It all comes down to two players, will Lillard play to his level and will KM be healthy? This is still a game of stars and if they play to their regular level, they have a decent shot.

2) In the playoffs, it's a slower game, teams need shot makers. With a regular Lillard, Bucks have enough to prevail.

3) Obviously the defense has to improve and I'm counting on the 30 coaches the Bucks have to come up with something.

Don't agree with everything here, but definitely most of it including the tone and the 30 coaches. Good lord. I wonder if they get bored and start coaching each other.

[sidney lanier]

The 82 games is a grind
Motivation can be hard to find
When you lose to the Griz
It just is what it is
Kind of early to lose our damn mind

Grizzlies scrubs were like college players with a chance to knock off the pros, and they pulled it off. Good for them. We're still two months away from meaningful basketball.

Speaking of knocking off the pros, I'd bet most under 40 here never heard of the College All-Star Game, which was a creation of Arch Ward of the Chicago Tribune. It was a charity exhibition game in Soldier Field between the previous season's NFL champion and college all-stars. Sometimes the pros lost.

1963 Packers Lose All Star Game-Lombardi Furious

In 1963, the Green Bay Packers had won the previous two NFL title games against the New York Giants. The College All Stars won the game this year 20 to 17. Even though it was only an exhibition, the loss on national television to these upstarts was very embarrassing to Vince Lombardi. I would not have wanted to be in the locker room after. The game was the 25th in the famous series played for the benefit of Chicago Tribune charities.

https://www.profootballresearchers.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6863#:~:text=In%201963%2C%20the%20Green%20Bay,very%20embarrassing%20to%20Vince%20Lombardi.

[MissKhriddleton]

I guess Dame doesn’t come off to me as quitting or playing half assed. He’s in a slump, he can’t get a whistle for whatever reason, and he’s frustrated. It looks like he’s far too aware of every single thing he’s doing on the court instead of just playing naturally. Could he be cooked? Sure, but then we’re telling him **** you for not being younger??? I don’t get it. Dude is engaged on the bench, he cares, this isn’t Payton.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

i think analyzing what we do on the floor when inherently the players dont really care what they do on the floor is a lost cause.

i think barkleys analysis during last nights half time summed it up best. we just go out there and play pick up low energy we got talent ball.

if youre a coach and youre coaching that where do you even start?

the miami series and even preceding is the exact same issues on this squad we have today. weve had 4 head coaches if you count stotts who have either been fired or quit. even add prunty if you want. and now docs been here 10 games or whatever and hes on the hot seat already. you cant make this up with THE ROSTER!

[Coach Carter]

Everything started going downhill when Khris got injured. That's the price we paid for a chip. When you think about it, it's a ridiculous amount of games you're required to play and I feel going all the way took a real toll on Khris.

[jimmybones]

I'm going to do my best to emotionally detach from the outcome of the season now. They will inevitably get hot at some point and pull me back in only to make our embarrassing playoff exit hurt more. Going to try not to fall for it. I'm amazed by the folks here actually thinking they'll win it all, more power to you.

Bright side of this thing crashing and burning is you can justify canning Horst and then you can justify canning Doc so the new guy can build from the ground up.

Anyone up for the task of doing some unrealistic video game level offseason roster tweaking to move everyone but Giannis? Trade Dame, Brook, Khris, everyone, give Giannis a reset button with a tweaked roster.

[BigO]

The 82 games is a grind
Motivation can be hard to find
When you lose to the Griz
It just is what it is
Kind of early to lose our damn mind

Grizzlies scrubs were like college players with a chance to knock off the pros, and they pulled it off. Good for them. We're still two months away from meaningful basketball.

Speaking of knocking off the pros, I'd bet most under 40 here never heard of the College All-Star Game, which was a creation of Arch Ward of the Chicago Tribune. It was a charity exhibition game in Soldier Field between the previous season's NFL champion and college all-stars. Sometimes the pros lost.

1963 Packers Lose All Star Game-Lombardi Furious

In 1963, the Green Bay Packers had won the previous two NFL title games against the New York Giants. The College All Stars won the game this year 20 to 17. Even though it was only an exhibition, the loss on national television to these upstarts was very embarrassing to Vince Lombardi. I would not have wanted to be in the locker room after. The game was the 25th in the famous series played for the benefit of Chicago Tribune charities.

https://www.profootballresearchers.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6863#:~:text=In%201963%2C%20the%20Green%20Bay,very%20embarrassing%20to%20Vince%20Lombardi.

I remember watching that game and being devastated.

[Ron Swanson]

Since Griff was sacrificed at the alter:

6th in defense
21st in offense
16th in net-rating

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?slug=advanced&GroupQuantity=4&TeamID=1610612749&LastNGames=13

Lots of stuff to feel good about despite the hand-wringing.

- Net-rating with starters on the court minus Khris (sample is too small): +23.9
- Most used 5-man lineup (Dame/Beasley/Crowder/Giannis/Brook) is +32.4 (88 minutes)
- Starters with Middleton is +16.7, which would still be #1 in the league and better than the larger sample under Griff (+15.3)

The Bad?: The bench has been awful (no surprise), and Bobby is almost single-handedly tanking lineups when he's on the court. Here are the net-ratings of his most used lineups in descending order:

-23.0
-7.2
-17.9
-24.6
-14.2
-22.6
-31.6
+13.7

Yes....we have to get to the 8th most used Bobby lineup (only 40 total minutes) in the last 13-games just to see some glimpse of him actually being playable. I hate to keep picking on the guy but this is like, Jordan Nwora level bad.

[PhoenixMilwauke]

5 Man Lineups > 400 mins played

Dame/Beasley/Middleton/Giannis/Brook 15.3 NetRtg
Murray/KCP/MPJ/Gordon/Jokic 13
Conley/Ant/McDaniels/KAT/Gobert. 11
Jrue/White/Brown/Tatum/KCP. 10.6
Fox/Huerter/Murray/Barnes/Sabonis 7.2


The Bucks have the best starting lineup in the league to this point. That's no small thing. In the playoffs, this will make the biggest difference. We just need to sort out the lineups where the bench plays AND stay healthy.

[msiris]

The regular season just proves that we can't count on anyone but Gannis.