Atl Blowup

[Ball4life32]

If the Hawks were to rebuild I don't see a bedrock player worthy to survive a firesale. The roster lacks a bedrock piece and that's been the problem with Trae-centric building ever since they changed the foul rules that took away the cheapies where Trae was initiating contact rushing into players and flopping his way to free takes at the FT line.

Had they drafted Haliburton over Okongwu like I had hoped they would, they'd have that bedrock piece instead of the Pacers.

People literally still complain about Trae getting those calls all the time…. he’s averaging 27/11, that has nothing to do why hawks are struggling.

[pipfan]

Let's assume ATL bows out quietly in the Playin, and they decide to start fresh. I like their young pieces, and it's clear their vet core is going nowhere. I know what people say about this draft being weak, but I never believe that-some studs are always found. These moves would give them a TON of young players, picks and cap space.

1. Young to SA
Collins, TJones, #4 pick from SA, Bulls '25 pick and all the ATL picks back

SA goes for it-I would love Young/Vassell/Johnson/Sochan/Wemby-and they'd still have the Tor pick and all their own future picks, plus some other young pieces. Give Pops one more shot at it

2. Bogs to Philly for the '28 clipper pick
Philly adds an awesome shooter for cap space and an attractive future pick (but they are win now).

3. Murray to Orl for Howard, Black and the Den '25 pick (or Orl's '25 pick-not sure on the value of the 2 Orl kids)
Orl adds a good fit at PG who's not too old

4. Capela-I could see multiple teams interested in a solid, expiring vet like him

ATL starts all over with a TON of young guys
Johnson, Okongwu, Griffin, Bufkin, Hunter, Black, Howard plus they save SO MUCH $ and add a lot of future draft capital. They also would have the #3 (SA), #9 (ATL) and #18 (Sac) picks. Run a season as a try out, letting all the kids play and see what they have-with Jones as a solid PG leader and Collins as a solid vet big. Their pick in '25 would be top 6 probably-in what is supposed to be a "solid/good" draft

Better than another year or two of 38 win seasons

The Trae trade feels like a slight overpay. I wouldn’t include the 2024 pick if I were San Antonio.

Might be an overpay, but the '24 pick is the prize here-I am counting it as the #3 or 4 pick. Maybe SA keeps the Chi pick?
Or they get the #8 pick from Tor and send that and the Chi pick, and keep their own pick?

[wegotthabeet]

Let's assume ATL bows out quietly in the Playin, and they decide to start fresh. I like their young pieces, and it's clear their vet core is going nowhere. I know what people say about this draft being weak, but I never believe that-some studs are always found. These moves would give them a TON of young players, picks and cap space.

1. Young to SA
Collins, TJones, #4 pick from SA, Bulls '25 pick and all the ATL picks back

SA goes for it-I would love Young/Vassell/Johnson/Sochan/Wemby-and they'd still have the Tor pick and all their own future picks, plus some other young pieces. Give Pops one more shot at it

2. Bogs to Philly for the '28 clipper pick
Philly adds an awesome shooter for cap space and an attractive future pick (but they are win now).

3. Murray to Orl for Howard, Black and the Den '25 pick (or Orl's '25 pick-not sure on the value of the 2 Orl kids)
Orl adds a good fit at PG who's not too old

4. Capela-I could see multiple teams interested in a solid, expiring vet like him

ATL starts all over with a TON of young guys
Johnson, Okongwu, Griffin, Bufkin, Hunter, Black, Howard plus they save SO MUCH $ and add a lot of future draft capital. They also would have the #3 (SA), #9 (ATL) and #18 (Sac) picks. Run a season as a try out, letting all the kids play and see what they have-with Jones as a solid PG leader and Collins as a solid vet big. Their pick in '25 would be top 6 probably-in what is supposed to be a "solid/good" draft

Better than another year or two of 38 win seasons

The Trae trade feels like a slight overpay. I wouldn’t include the 2024 pick if I were San Antonio.

Might be an overpay, but the '24 pick is the prize here-I am counting it as the #3 or 4 pick. Maybe SA keeps the Chi pick?
Or they get the #8 pick from Tor and send that and the Chi pick, and keep their own pick?

those 2 ATL picks + 1 swap are more valuable to Atlanta than anyone else. three years of their draft being controlled by another team. so i would view it as 2 unprotected picks + an unprotected swap.

Trae on the Spurs is a nice fit overall. absolute max value i'd give is 3 unprotected picks + 1 top 10 protected picks + 1 swap returned.

2025 ATL
2027 ATL
2025 CHI (top 10)
2030 DAL
2026 ATL swap returned

Spurs keep all their picks and Toronto's pick.

[One_and_Done]

The Spurs just aren't going to give the Hawks their picks back, nor should they.

[Slim Charless]

Yall shouldn't believe any reports about Trae trades unless the more reputable guys report on it. The stuff about them building around Trae and JJ, also they value Bogi alot is all closest to the truth.

Everything else is on the table. DJM will likely get traded during the draft and one of their 1st could also be traded alone or attached to another player.

I mean, I'm sure Atlanta would like to keep their good players and trade their bad players for good players, it's just pretty unlikely anyone will trade their good players for Atlanta's bad players.

It's either

1. Do nothing helpful
2. Trade Trae

The Hawks have just no assets to improve

They currently have the 9th pick and the right team would value Capela or even Hunter. That's not nothing. They're just lacking in a trade for a high level all-star.

Problem is the Trae Young thing hasn't worked out. It's been 3(?) coaches and multiple players in and out. Aside from the 1 yr he caught a dysfunctional Philly team, they haven't done anything. Quinn Synder is universally thought of as a great coach and ATL is pretty meh. It's time to move on.

They can clean up with a Trae trade. To SAS is smart if they want their picks back, but they can just move him to another team and get legit players back. Nets, Orlando, NOP all make sense as Trae destinations. Not counting Lakers and Philly with a mix of players and picks.

Atlanta needs to call it already.

[luciano-davidwesley]

I just think the premise of building around the Trae Young archetype of player is flawed. It's clear you aren't going to see consistent playoff success with Trae as your centerpiece.

I'd be seeing what you can get for him on the open market and going from there. If their record continues to plateau consistently as a fringe playin team his value will only decrease year on year.

[pipfan]

I just think the premise of building around the Trae Young archetype of player is flawed. It's clear you aren't going to see consistent playoff success with Trae as your centerpiece.

I'd be seeing what you can get for him on the open market and going from there. If their record continues to plateau consistently as a fringe playin team his value will only decrease year on year.

I agree 100%, and think Young (one of my least favorite players, but he is talented) could really thrive in SA. Wemby would be the clear #1 guy-and they have Vassell (very strong #3 option), Johnson and Sochan around him-plenty of size and defense. They'd also have enough for a bench

Give Pops one more shot at a top team-you never know with injuries and Wemby CLEARLY next year will be a superstar-type player (he already seems to be). Go for it-Young is not old

[TheNetsFan]

I do think Trae could be traded for a rebuild with Spurs to get their picks back andnmore. That does make sense if Hawks want to tank in 24-25 season. 2025 draft looks good.
Trae also fits well with Wemby.

But other than that. I agree that Hawks are more likely to restructure around Trae and JJ.

A few of you guys see this stuff and want to see it happen cause it's entertaining but I'm into what will likely happen. If we start hearing more valid reports from teams like Orl, Nets, etc. than that's real smoke.

Not really. It's just not sensible for Hawks to rebuild without their picks. So a move to get their picks back is key if they move Trae and rebuild.

If they aren't trading Trae, then the aren't rebuilding. They likely restructure. That's fine.

Have we ever seem a team trade for their own picks back? I can't recall that ever happening, and there's been plenty of opportunities. That's message board theory rather than practicality. GMs won't be around if they rebuild, stink,have to wait multiple years to get their picks back, and then have to wait multiple years for one of those players they drafted with the picks they got back to develop. Getting other team's picks however gives a GM the flexibility of trying to maintain a play-in or better team while they're waiting for those picks, and those other team's picks are psychologically easier to flip again.

We've seen Brooklyn resistant to getting their own picks back. We'll see what Atlanta does. Phoenix, when KD eventually slows down, will have a decision to make. Who knows what Milwaukee or LAL might do if they continue to struggle & their stars get disgruntled? The next time a team trades a high end player for its own picks back will be a first though.

[pipfan]

A few of you guys see this stuff and want to see it happen cause it's entertaining but I'm into what will likely happen. If we start hearing more valid reports from teams like Orl, Nets, etc. than that's real smoke.

Not really. It's just not sensible for Hawks to rebuild without their picks. So a move to get their picks back is key if they move Trae and rebuild.

If they aren't trading Trae, then the aren't rebuilding. They likely restructure. That's fine.

Have we ever seem a team trade for their own picks back? I can't recall that ever happening, and there's been plenty of opportunities. That's message board theory rather than practicality. GMs won't be around if they rebuild, stink,have to wait multiple years to get their picks back, and then have to wait multiple years for one of those players they drafted with the picks they got back to develop. Getting other team's picks however gives a GM the flexibility of trying to maintain a play-in or better team while they're waiting for those picks, and those other team's picks are psychologically easier to flip again.

We've seen Brooklyn resistant to getting their own picks back. We'll see what Atlanta does. Phoenix, when KD eventually slows down, will have a decision to make. Who knows what Milwaukee or LAL might do if they continue to struggle & their stars get disgruntled? The next time a team trades a high end player for its own picks back will be a first though.

This is true, but there's always a first, and this one fits
SA seems like a great fit for Young, and has an old legendary coach who might want to win now with a budding superstar who could REALLY use a good set up man
Atl is going NOWHERE and it's clear a fresh start would help

Of course, there are probably a million reasons Young to SA won't happen, but it does make sense

[basketballwacko2]

ATL needs to rebuild I don't think they are going anywhere with this current team. They have some good players, but they dealt off their draft picks. First thing I'd do is see if there is a way to get their picks back from the Spurs. I think I would take a trade of Trae Young to get that done. IDK if the Spurs even want to do that? Currently the Spurs hold the Hawks #1's in 25 and 27 and a swap in 2026 all unprotected!! This puts the Hawks in a bind like the Nets were when they owed all their picks to the Celtics.

I'm looking at the Spurs and Hawks and it's gonna be tough to match salary on a trade for Young to the Spurs, that is even if they wanted him.

[basketballwacko2]

Let's assume ATL bows out quietly in the Playin, and they decide to start fresh. I like their young pieces, and it's clear their vet core is going nowhere. I know what people say about this draft being weak, but I never believe that-some studs are always found. These moves would give them a TON of young players, picks and cap space.

1. Young to SA
Collins, TJones, #4 pick from SA, Bulls '25 pick and all the ATL picks back

SA goes for it-I would love Young/Vassell/Johnson/Sochan/Wemby-and they'd still have the Tor pick and all their own future picks, plus some other young pieces. Give Pops one more shot at it.

I want to address just this one trade as it was my first thought as well, Young to SA for the ATL picks. I know Collins was extended so I'm not 100% sure on the potential matching salary there. The package you suggest would be a windfall for the Hawks. But I'm doubtful that the Spurs will give up their 2024 #1 pick which could be top 4. The Chicago pick is top 9 protected out to 2027 then becomes 1 2nd in 2028 if not conveyed.

So getting Collins who I like and Jones who can hold down pg duties for a year or 2 and is expiring, looks good, but I'm thinking the Spurs will not give up their 2024 #1. If they really like Trae Young they might give the ATL picks, Chicago 25 and the Hornets pick which will likely be 2 2nds in 2026 and 27 since it has lottery protection and I think it would take a miracle to get the Hornets into the Playoffs by 2026.

The Hawks would still have Murray, Bogdonovic, Capella and Hunter.

They can rebuild around Jalen Johnson, and Okongwu and their picks IDK if AJ Griffin is anything or not. But you're looking at a 3 year rebuild and a lot of losses.

[basketballwacko2]

They currently have the 9th pick and the right team would value Capela or even Hunter. That's not nothing. They're just lacking in a trade for a high level all-star.

The 9th pick has extremely minimal value because this draft is so bad, Capela has near 0 value and Hunter has 0 to negative value. The Hawks also probably need to dump another player for luxury tax relief so they'll get even worse. Then they'll need to dump someone else in two years after Jalen Johnson gets paid. There's only downside here.

You are right. The Hawks should probably cease operations as an NBA franchise as there is no hope at all.

If you can scout well there is talent to be found in all drafts. Capela is a serviceable big who can likely return some type of protected first. When healthy, Hunter is a very good player. He just can't stay healthy.

The idea that the two options for the Hawks are do nothing or trade Trae is a bit ridiculous. You are literally saying that no other players has value amongst the league. While they might not return a superstar, they can return something useful.

This reminds me of that scene in "A Few Good Men." Col. Jessup: "Get me the President on the phone. We're surrendering our position in Cuba!"

[basketballwacko2]

The Spurs just aren't going to give the Hawks their picks back, nor should they.

That's the tough part, the Spurs have to 1 really like Trae Young and 2 be willing to give up those picks of a team that might be falling apart.

[basketballwacko2]

I just think the premise of building around the Trae Young archetype of player is flawed. It's clear you aren't going to see consistent playoff success with Trae as your centerpiece.

I'd be seeing what you can get for him on the open market and going from there. If their record continues to plateau consistently as a fringe playin team his value will only decrease year on year.

How do you think Trae compares to Lemello Ball? Would you say Lemello is a player you can build around?

[luciano-davidwesley]

I just think the premise of building around the Trae Young archetype of player is flawed. It's clear you aren't going to see consistent playoff success with Trae as your centerpiece.

I'd be seeing what you can get for him on the open market and going from there. If their record continues to plateau consistently as a fringe playin team his value will only decrease year on year.

How do you think Trae compares to Lemello Ball? Would you say Lemello is a player you can build around?

I know where you are going with this. Kind of irrelevant but currently no, he's not a cornerstone of a franchise for similar reasons to Trae.

That being said, if he keeps improving and and locks down on the other end a bit more mentally that can change. He has the physical tools that will allow him to be a much better defender and a better passer than Trae so there's still hope for Lamelo, Trae not so much.

[basketballwacko2]

I just think the premise of building around the Trae Young archetype of player is flawed. It's clear you aren't going to see consistent playoff success with Trae as your centerpiece.

I'd be seeing what you can get for him on the open market and going from there. If their record continues to plateau consistently as a fringe playin team his value will only decrease year on year.

How do you think Trae compares to Lemello Ball? Would you say Lemello is a player you can build around?

I know where you are going with this. Kind of irrelevant but currently no, he's not a cornerstone of a franchise for similar reasons to Trae.

That being said, if he keeps improving and and locks down on the other end a bit more mentally that can change. He has the physical tools that will allow him to be a much better defender and a better passer than Trae so there's still hope for Lamelo, Trae not so much.

I wasn't going anywhere with it, I just wanted your opinion on your own guy by comparison. I don't have a dog in the fight. Ball should be a better defender with his size at 6'7'' but I'd be a bit worried about his injury issues after the 2022-23 season and missing a bunch of games this year. And considering Lonzo's injury issues.

[dms269]

I just think the premise of building around the Trae Young archetype of player is flawed. It's clear you aren't going to see consistent playoff success with Trae as your centerpiece.

I'd be seeing what you can get for him on the open market and going from there. If their record continues to plateau consistently as a fringe playin team his value will only decrease year on year.

How do you think Trae compares to Lemello Ball? Would you say Lemello is a player you can build around?

I know where you are going with this. Kind of irrelevant but currently no, he's not a cornerstone of a franchise for similar reasons to Trae.

That being said, if he keeps improving and and locks down on the other end a bit more mentally that can change. He has the physical tools that will allow him to be a much better defender and a better passer than Trae so there's still hope for Lamelo, Trae not so much.

Say what?

[MoneyTalks41890]

Yeah I think the Spurs would want to hang onto the Atlanta picks. They don’t look like a playoff team right now and the upside on those picks is very high.

But I do like Trae/Wemby as a combo. Wemby perhaps the only player in the world who can cover Trae’s defense, or lack thereof. And that two man game offensively would be pretty unstoppable with the right role players.

[NYG]

I dont think Atlanta trades Trae yet. Think they are at least one retool away from trading him.

I think you could keep DJM/Trae together and go for it again next year really.

But the DJM trade looks good, I think Black probably holds a lot of value compared to mystery picks.

And I don’t think Bogdan can return a distant unprotected pick. But do think he can return a first in general..

Yeah... Trae feels like a 2025 deadline trade, not 2024 off-season