I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired.

[buzzkilloton]

Troy Weaver traded Luke Kennard because he didnt want to pay him the 15mill per year he was going to get. He traded Kennard for Bey who we then traded for Wiseman instead of 5 2nd round picks.

Meanwhile Luke Kennard is one of the best 3pt shooters ITL making 15mill per year. He does miss games but man when hes the court hes still awesome. I'd surely rather pay him then pay guys Wiseman,Bagley,Joe Harris or whatever other scrubs Weaver has brought in.

Lenard can’t play D. He is almost unplayable in the playoffs. And when Kennard was with us he was injured a lot.

So it is easy to complain after we see how things turned out. It’s much easier to decide what to do before you get to see the results. So if you’re GM of the Pistons, what do YOU do with the $60M+ of cap space this summer?

It would be really nice to be the GM of the Pistons getting paid millions of dollars and having a huge team of people under me helping me make decisions. Weaver should be able to run circles around any fan with the resources at his disposable.

I'm signing Miles Bridges the best FA that will come here. I'm seriously considering moving either Cade or Ivey. I just dont buy their fit and synergy together never have. I always assumed id move Ivey but with how good Ivey looked with Cade out I'm leaning move Cade. Also will throw that top pick in to really juice the deal IF I can find the right guy.

I get what Troy Weaver is doing. Sitting back and losing on purpose for as long as Gores will let him. Not taking any risky moves. Why take a risk that could get you fired if you can do nothing and keep the paychecks rolling. Weaver is making millions of dollars every year for losing this way its great for him.

If hes allowed to lose for another 5 years he will pocket tens of millions doing what anyone on realGM could do. Eventually he will hit on a franchise player or two just based on dumb luck. Weaver has it made making millions of dollars per year with a 68-221 record and still has fans like yourself, James Edwards, and a owner like Gores defending his work. Troys living the good life.

[buzzkilloton]

Fire Weaver

Read on Twitter

[SuperBad]

I think weaver is solid at drafting, his first year was a big swing but what else was he going to do year one to tear it all down, his free agency work is really 50/50 or NA, Jerami Grant worked out well; it’s a lot better than Josh Smith, Ben Gordon, Boban, CVDNP ect., and the Stewart extension was definitely not worse than Jason Maxceill, Stuckey, and moving Bey for wiseman was only slightly worse than giving him a huge overpay that he was expecting being the number three option on the worst team in the league, though I would love to have him as a sixth man type. Weaver has kinda failed in just trading for too many guys the same and than buying people out.

I think we just need another voice/vote in the room, I think we need Shane Battier, to cover a lot of ground, and be the voice for the media

[Kalamazoo317]

*Is* he solid at drafting? Or is he decidedly average?

[Spider156]

There’s no question in my mind that Troy Weaver deserves to be fired. He has absolutely earned it there’s no question.

Weaver has had 4 full years to get any type of player that breaks out with more playing time like Marcus morris, Reggie bullock, Reggie jackson, DJ Augustine, Tobias Harris. I mean Weaver hasn’t come close to getting talent. He’s literally relying on the lottery every year and he’s trying to get 2 players a year. It’s an awful pace and I don’t believe it should have taken this long to make these changes. Not only is Weaver 1 year too late making changes but he hasn’t given himself any chance to use cap space appropriately. I don’t believe he knows how, I think he’s just a poor negotiator.

Make him lead scout. Promote someone else to get GM duties. This guy and Arn Tellem are awful at their jobs. Truly some of the worst talent evaluators I’ve seen. Jonas Jerebko makes these guys look like jokes. These kids really need to get real and get serious. They’re not serious.

[SuperBad]

I mean he turned FA Jerami Grant into Duran plus and minus a bunch of second rd picks and cash, Duran was 10th?, he’s pretty good for tenth pick, Sasser is looking like a steal, Ivey, Cade, Ausar were the right ones to take, all his 2nd rd picks are mostly still in the league, I think if you compare that to other GM drafting he’s probably pretty good. He basically turned Kelly Olynk, and Burks from the Grant trade into Quickly , both those FA signings worked into some asset, Plumlee and his buy out of centers in general is annoying, and he’s gambled a lot(wiseman and Bagley) but it just tanked us right when there was a good couple years of really high end talent to draft, we just fell back in every draft but one, the league has gotten way better in the last 5 years, and we bottomed out during that time.

[Snakebites]

We’re 8-46 four years into Weaver’s rebuild.

We don’t need to look at individual moves. Those results speak for themselves.

[Spider156]

We’re 8-46 four years into Weaver’s rebuild.

We don’t need to look at individual moves. Those results speak for themselves.

Correct. So the last 30 games should tell us the rest of the story. It shouldn’t but it will help considering we can clean slate this summer. My prediction is if we have the worst record Weaver gets fired. If we have the 28th worst record, unfortunately that’s improvement compared to last year. So do you fire weaver? I would definitely allow him to draft, there’s no question in my mind there. I wouldn’t allow him to do free agency though. Unless he’s signing Tobias or trading for a guy like Ingram I really think it’ll be a big failure again.

[SuperBad]

That’s how I feel, I like his drafting, his choices in free agency in terms of the teams fit and need I think he needs help, especially when you add in the utilization of the contracts in our salary cap. But I also think he has mostly been in asset building mode for 4 seasons, that’s why we continually just take on bad contracts for some picks, he hasn’t put a lot of effort into anything else, these last group of trades seem like he’s now acquiring the types of players needed, for our young core to come together better, but since this is his first time actually building cohesiveness, I think he needs help.

[Kalamazoo317]

I mean he turned FA Jerami Grant into Duran plus and minus a bunch of second rd picks and cash, Duran was 10th?, he’s pretty good for tenth pick, Sasser is looking like a steal, Ivey, Cade, Ausar were the right ones to take, all his 2nd rd picks are mostly still in the league, I think if you compare that to other GM drafting he’s probably pretty good.

Duren is an under-sized 5 who rebounds well but can’t stretch the floor and hasn’t shown much on defense yet. He’s decent, but not sure he was an amazing pick.

Sasser is a streaky shooter and scrappy but undersized defender. I like him but his ceiling is probably sixth man, which is decent value where he was taken but I wouldn’t call it a steal.

It’s heavily debatable if Cade (Barnes, Franz, Mobley), Ivey (Sharpe, one of the wings), or Ausar was the right pick or if they fit together particularly well.

None of the second rounders, Bey, or Killian are on our team, so all busts for our purposes. He also wanted Bagley and Wiseman *after* it was clear to most of the league that they were busts.

[SuperBad]

There’s always going to be a lot to debate about draft picks in there first 4-5 years, but all the top picks are good players, Killian was obvious fail at 7, in the later picks he sees an eye for talent pretty good, which I think is more valuable long term. I think he saw the value in Jerami Grant at the right time, and turned it into Duran, who’s at least going to hit a Drummond level, which still isn’t too bad gor the 10 tb pick

[Kalamazoo317]

A lot of folks have been pining for a Grant-like player since we traded him and I think Cade played some of his best ball when the two were both going, so I'm not fully convinced that trade was the right move. I like Duren, but it's not like we've won anything with him yet.

Most GMs with a top five pick are going to pick a talented player. It's really not that hard. Picking talent that fits together and finding draft steals is what makes a GM above average. I think Weaver is an average drafter, below average trader (lots of trading but the sum of things is usually negative in overall value), and I think free agency is dead for just about any team other than the Lakers, so I won't judge him too much for being bad at free agency, but continually punting on our cap space is poor asset management as well.

Overall, I'd say he's a below average GM and the results support that.

[Spider156]

A lot of folks have been pining for a Grant-like player since we traded him and I think Cade played some of his best ball when the two were both going, so I'm not fully convinced that trade was the right move. I like Duren, but it's not like we've won anything with him yet.

Most GMs with a top five pick are going to pick a talented player. It's really not that hard. Picking talent that fits together and finding draft steals is what makes a GM above average. I think Weaver is an average drafter, below average trader (lots of trading but the sum of things is usually negative in overall value), and I think free agency is dead for just about any team other than the Lakers, so I won't judge him too much for being bad at free agency, but continually punting on our cap space is poor asset management as well.

Overall, I'd say he's a below average GM and the results support that.

You sound like my brother in the first paragraph. You guys make a point, we are not sure if we won the Grant trade because at the end of the day, what do we need now? A Jerami Grant player. Who is the most replaceable player? Duren. So absolutely it’s a debate there. However, Duren is only 20 years old and for a team that doesn’t have any talent and that got screwed dropping to 5, getting another top 10 talent was absolutely the right decision at the time. We also weren’t in position to be giving out big contracts even though we did nothing with the cap space.

In my opinion at this point having cap space is what is hurting us. I mean this is a professional team and every professional athlete should be begging for minutes to play. Every player in the NBA is much more willing to get playing time on a bad team than to ride the end of the bench for a contender. Ask PJ Tucker, ask Fournier, ask Bones Hyland, Wiseman on warriors, the list is endless. Guys like Brown Jr and Milton are salivating right now knowing we severely lack talent and any shot made or defense looks great to the fans. I do believe Monty wanted to play everyone before the break and that’s why he played 12 players. I’m not worried about the current roster. I’m more worried that the players don’t fit together and Weaver doesn’t have the insight nor skills to negotiate a deal with any of the core players. Trading Duren in opinion is gonna be a hard decision if we get #1. Do you try to get Sarr to play next to Duren? That’s basically what he did with Ausar even though he is the best prospect. Wisdom says to worry about fit later. It’s just too bad he’s wasted 4 years and all he got was Grimes and Fontecchio in the end.

[Kalamazoo317]

The problem with Weaver is he's been "worrying about it later" for his entire tenure so far.

[7r5ur]

A lot of folks have been pining for a Grant-like player since we traded him and I think Cade played some of his best ball when the two were both going, so I'm not fully convinced that trade was the right move. I like Duren, but it's not like we've won anything with him yet.

What has Grant won as "the guy"? He has always been WAY down the pecking order on any decent team he's been on. We've now seen 4 years of Grant's teams being trash when he's a top-3 option.

Every time he has high usage his team has been terrible. This is one of the issues with Grant. He puts up numbers and gets rewarded with a giant contract, but you really want him to be like a 4th option, the way he was before he decided he wanted to be "the man" and picked Detroit over Denver. Yet if he's the 4th option who is a bit of a ball stopper and maybe the worst rebounding PF in the league, do you want to pay him $160M?

Pretty sure Grant will be very available in the offseason if you really want him, considering the fact that Portland is terrible, yet already set to be in the tax next year somehow, and Grant/Brogdon obviously don't fit the timeline.

If winning a game today were your only objective, yeah, trading an established player in their prime for an 18 year old (at the time) is a bad move. But in the long term, turning Grant with his contract looming into Duren is a win 10 times out of 10. Duren's trade value is a lot higher than Grant's is today. Unquestionably.

[buzzkilloton]

Fire Weaver

Also their is always a sector of posters who think "Well other teams missed Hali too". Its actually been confirmed by Hali he had his agent tell teams with pgs in the lotto he didnt want to go there. He was essentially trying to force his way to certain teams but Weaver just straight missed the boat.

ESPN's Jonathan Givony reported on The Lowe Post podcast in November 2020 (via NBC Sports California's James Ham) that Haliburton's agents were working behind the scenes to ensure certain teams wouldn't select him in the draft.

Haliburton confirmed Thursday on The Old Man & The Three he at least told representatives from the Cavs and Hawks he didn't want to land with their franchises.

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?t=zb1Bef_whRPPB7wveY2gEQ

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10027922-tyrese-haliburton-says-he-told-cavs-hawks-not-to-pick-him-in-2020-nba-draft.amp.html

[Kalamazoo317]

A lot of folks have been pining for a Grant-like player since we traded him and I think Cade played some of his best ball when the two were both going, so I'm not fully convinced that trade was the right move. I like Duren, but it's not like we've won anything with him yet.

What has Grant won as "the guy"? He has always been WAY down the pecking order on any decent team he's been on. We've now seen 4 years of Grant's teams being trash when he's a top-3 option.

Every time he has high usage his team has been terrible. This is one of the issues with Grant. He puts up numbers and gets rewarded with a giant contract, but you really want him to be like a 4th option, the way he was before he decided he wanted to be "the man" and picked Detroit over Denver. Yet if he's the 4th option who is a bit of a ball stopper and maybe the worst rebounding PF in the league, do you want to pay him $160M?

Pretty sure Grant will be very available in the offseason if you really want him, considering the fact that Portland is terrible, yet already set to be in the tax next year somehow, and Grant/Brogdon obviously don't fit the timeline.

If winning a game today were your only objective, yeah, trading an established player in their prime for an 18 year old (at the time) is a bad move. But in the long term, turning Grant with his contract looming into Duren is a win 10 times out of 10. Duren's trade value is a lot higher than Grant's is today. Unquestionably.

A wing who shoots well and has at least average on ball defense is a much better commodity than a sub 7-foot non-shooting 5. I suspect folks on the trade board would largely consider Grant to be the better asset.

[buzzkilloton]

A lot of folks have been pining for a Grant-like player since we traded him and I think Cade played some of his best ball when the two were both going, so I'm not fully convinced that trade was the right move. I like Duren, but it's not like we've won anything with him yet.

W.

A wing who shoots well and has at least average on ball defense is a much better commodity than a sub 7-foot non-shooting 5. I suspect folks on the trade board would largely consider Grant to be the better asset.

This was interesting to think about who has more trade value on the open market. Like I have no question that any team competing for even a playin would offer more for Grant right now. Were talking a 40% 3pt shooter that can play pretty good defense(esp if hes not your main option) its just hard to find that type of player. For example in the Ringers top 100 all star break they have Grant ranked 64th.

You start looking at the other teams out there that might prefer a young player over Grant. The majority actually have a center their good with already. Centers just arent all that valuable unless their freaks of nature do everything type guys. I just dont think Duren would have a big market of suiters. He has value for sure but maybe not as much as fans think due to positional scarcity.

Durens is in that old school center mold. High FG% great rebounder hes a decent passer. The thing is his defense is lacking he doesnt bring the rim protection you like. He cant shoot the 3ball. The enticing thing with him is hes very young so he could potentially add some things to his game that really unlock things. He could turn into a better rebounding J.Allen if his defense ever gets there.

Grant surely would have many suiters on the open market and not be easy to get. Were talking about paying a older T.Harris 30+ mill here in free agency Grant makes 32mill per year hes a much better player then Harris. The Blazers were telling teams they werent even looking to move Grant anyways fwiw.

According to NBA insider Jake Fischer of Yahoo Sports, the Portland Trail Blazers are not expected to seriously entertain trade offers for Jerami Grant.

Grant signed a five-year, $160 million contract with the Blazers in July before Damian Lillard requested a trade. Portland traded Lillard to the Milwaukee Bucks.

“Jerami Grant would represent an absolute difference-maker for both Dallas and the Sacramento Kings, another leading suitor for Siakam,” Fischer wrote. “The Kings have made Harrison Barnes, Kevin Huerter and Davion Mitchell available in trade conversations, sources said. However, Portland is not expected to seriously entertain offers for Grant, league sources told Yahoo Sports, in contrast to veteran point guard Malcolm Brogdon.”

[buzzkilloton]

Found the entire interview. Its like another D.Mitch it’s unbelievable.

For sure Detroit, for sure Detroit," Haliburton said while also acknowledging other landing spots of teams in the top 10 that year he would've enjoyed, such as the Golden State Warriors (who drafted James Wiseman at 2), the Bulls and the Knicks.

After listing off the other teams, Haliburton circled back to Detroit, saying he was convinced he would end up there since the team needed a point guard heading into the 2020-21 season.

"With the Pistons, I knew they needed a point guard," Haliburton explained. "So, in that moment, I already felt like I was the best point guard in the draft, but LaMelo was touted as the number one guy. So, when he got drafted was like 'It's gotta be me.'"



https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tyrese-haliburton-says-detroit-pistons-162320309.html

[7r5ur]

A lot of folks have been pining for a Grant-like player since we traded him and I think Cade played some of his best ball when the two were both going, so I'm not fully convinced that trade was the right move. I like Duren, but it's not like we've won anything with him yet.

What has Grant won as "the guy"? He has always been WAY down the pecking order on any decent team he's been on. We've now seen 4 years of Grant's teams being trash when he's a top-3 option.

Every time he has high usage his team has been terrible. This is one of the issues with Grant. He puts up numbers and gets rewarded with a giant contract, but you really want him to be like a 4th option, the way he was before he decided he wanted to be "the man" and picked Detroit over Denver. Yet if he's the 4th option who is a bit of a ball stopper and maybe the worst rebounding PF in the league, do you want to pay him $160M?

Pretty sure Grant will be very available in the offseason if you really want him, considering the fact that Portland is terrible, yet already set to be in the tax next year somehow, and Grant/Brogdon obviously don't fit the timeline.

If winning a game today were your only objective, yeah, trading an established player in their prime for an 18 year old (at the time) is a bad move. But in the long term, turning Grant with his contract looming into Duren is a win 10 times out of 10. Duren's trade value is a lot higher than Grant's is today. Unquestionably.

A wing who shoots well and has at least average on ball defense is a much better commodity than a sub 7-foot non-shooting 5. I suspect folks on the trade board would largely consider Grant to be the better asset.

Post it and find out. He’s a guy that doesn’t move the needle as a top-3 option and he’s making $160M guaranteed. He was worth a very late Bucks future 1st when he was on a far more reasonable salary number.

Again this “what have we won with Duren?” thing rings pretty hollow when you look at what Grant has won when he’s not the 5th or 6th option on a team.

Meanwhile Duren was still a teenager like 2 months ago.

Turning $20M in cap space into Jerami Grant and then turning him into Duren is one of very few home run moves Weaver has actually done during his tenure.