Woj: Knicks trade for Alec Burks and Bojan Bogdanovich

[cgf]

Donte has been better for us than Burks so far and has better defensive metrics this season. But Donte's also struggled with his 3ball in the playoffs before...and teams have more success isolated / picking on DDV, despite him creating more turnovers; 1.44 ppp when isolating on Donte this season vs 0.65 PPP when isolating Burks.

So if DDV cools off this postseason as well, I won't be surprised to see Burks closing over him.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*divincenzo&SeasonYear=2023-24&TypeGrouping=defensive&dir=D&sort=POSS
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*burk&SeasonYear=2023-24&TypeGrouping=defensive&dir=D&sort=POSS

Stop praying on the downfall of my guy DDV since I said he could replace much of what IQ gave the team at a much cheaper price
If DDV struggles in the playoffs he would be replacing IQ's struggles there too

Huh? I'm hoping for Donte to continue getting better and better, as he transforms into a prime Klay...I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised if that's not how things play out. There's plenty of reasons for Donte to be playing better than he ever has before that make this feel sustainable...but he is shooting way above his career #s, which is generally a redflag until you hit the 100-150 game mark.

And what does IQ have to do with this? If you really want to beat a dead horse, it's Grimes who we should've held onto in case the sexier options fail and we end up needing someone Thibs can trust to defend well without getting Okoro'd by opposing defenses...but that's a pointless discussion as well.

[JayTWill]

Donte has been better for us than Burks so far and has better defensive metrics this season. But Donte's also struggled with his 3ball in the playoffs before...and teams have more success isolated / picking on DDV, despite him creating more turnovers; 1.44 ppp when isolating on Donte this season vs 0.65 PPP when isolating Burks.

So if DDV cools off this postseason as well, I won't be surprised to see Burks closing over him.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*divincenzo&SeasonYear=2023-24&TypeGrouping=defensive&dir=D&sort=POSS
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*burk&SeasonYear=2023-24&TypeGrouping=defensive&dir=D&sort=POSS

Stop praying on the downfall of my guy DDV since I said he could replace much of what IQ gave the team at a much cheaper price
If DDV struggles in the playoffs he would be replacing IQ's struggles there too

Huh? I'm hoping for Donte to continue getting better and better, as he transforms into a prime Klay...I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised if that's not how things play out. There's plenty of reasons for Donte to be playing better than he ever has before that make this feel sustainable...but he is shooting way above his career #s, which is generally a redflag until you hit the 100-150 game mark.

And what does IQ have to do with this? If you really want to beat a dead horse, it's Grimes who we should've held onto in case the sexier options fail and we end up needing someone Thibs can trust to defend well without getting Okoro'd by opposing defenses...but that's a pointless discussion as well.

I'm just kidding man. It's just interesting to see how your position has evolved since my introduction to you on the trade board this summer. When I mentioned trading IQ for a longer, more defensive and less ball dominant player since DDV could replace IQ you disagreed. You were very adamant about the need for 4 on-ball creators for the offense to function properly. To see you go from that position to wanting to trade DDV and picks for Lavine as a 3rd creator in the starting lineup to wanting to add Caruso to saying the non-Brunson minutes won't be that big of a deal since he will be playing big minutes in the playoffs is a pretty big shift in such short period of time. What exactly changed from your viewpoint especially with what you thought the team needed offensively?

[cgmw]

Oh no doubt the best case scenario is Donte staying hot and us only needing Burks for the non-Brunson minutes...especially if Hart could start regressing towards his career averages as well.

But I see a much clearer path to significant postseason PT for Burks than for Bojan unless Juju's injury is REALLY bad.

Burks is bad in too big of a role and Donte is just playing better than he is right now, but Burks can be solid in a supplementary role and the role he'd fill seems less secure to me than Bojan's.

It'll be interesting to see how the rotation works out when everyone is healthy. I wonder if Thibs would consider a bigger lineup with Bojan at SF such as C/Randle/Bojan/OG/Brunson. Maybe against bigger teams like the Celtics or Bucks. Bojan is the better player over Burks imo. Think he should get more minutes then just backing up Randle .. And can maybe work out well next to Randle since he's a really good shooter

Definitely going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out if we ever get healthy, especially with how situational some of our depth pieces are.

The big question with Bojan will be on the defensive end. I like that he moves his feet better than I was expecting from a 35yo, but so far he's been an absolute disaster defensively...like his negative impact in his first two games was almost as big as OG's positive impact was in his first two games.

Now some of that has been because he just didn't know our schemes and because we were so beaten up that Thibs stopped practicing the team between games. So hopefully this mini break is giving them the opportunity to get Bogey on the same page with everyone else, but I still need to see Bojan not just immediately implode our defense.

What I could see working is playing Julius, Bojan, and OG together, with Julius banging with the biggest body, OG protecting the rim, and us hiding Bojan the best we can...but I dunno if Thibs would go to a lineup like that if unless forced too by injuries/foul-trouble.

Seems like a fairly safe bet that we won’t be at full health come playoffs. It’s almost institutional malpractice to hire Thibs as coach and then NOT give him veteran bench depth for playoff runs. Otherwise he’s prone to killing your best players.

We’ve got 12 rostered players worthy of playoff rotation minutes, which is a good thing when your coach tends to keep 1/3 of your roster injured at all times.

[cgf]

Stop praying on the downfall of my guy DDV since I said he could replace much of what IQ gave the team at a much cheaper price
If DDV struggles in the playoffs he would be replacing IQ's struggles there too

Huh? I'm hoping for Donte to continue getting better and better, as he transforms into a prime Klay...I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised if that's not how things play out. There's plenty of reasons for Donte to be playing better than he ever has before that make this feel sustainable...but he is shooting way above his career #s, which is generally a redflag until you hit the 100-150 game mark.

And what does IQ have to do with this? If you really want to beat a dead horse, it's Grimes who we should've held onto in case the sexier options fail and we end up needing someone Thibs can trust to defend well without getting Okoro'd by opposing defenses...but that's a pointless discussion as well.

I'm just kidding man. It's just interesting to see how your position has evolved since my introduction to you on the trade board this summer. When I mentioned trading IQ for a longer, more defensive and less ball dominant player since DDV could replace IQ you disagreed. You were very adamant about the need for 4 on-ball creators for the offense to function properly. To see you go from that position to wanting to trade DDV and picks for Lavine as a 3rd creator in the starting lineup to wanting to add Caruso to saying the non-Brunson minutes won't be that big of a deal since he will be playing big minutes in the playoffs is a pretty big shift in such short period of time. What exactly changed from your viewpoint especially with what you thought the team needed offensively?

A large part of my positions changing from the summer has just been seeing the way this offense worked post trade. I looked at what we did better than other teams offensively and thought that we needed those advantages for Thibs to run a top unit through Brundle, but then the trade happened.

When confronted with new information we have to adjust our conclusions...and this offense continuing to be a top 10 unit with just 2 creators, showed that we didn't need that relentless rim pressure to succeed offensively; at least when we were getting out in transition and had both halves of Brundle.

I dunno if I under-estimated Brundle given that I've said before I think you can win a title with Brunson as your closer and have defended Julius so much on the General & Trade boards that people over there joked that I must be his agent...but I clearly under-estimated Thibs' offensive creativity & adaptability.


The rest of that is (mostly) OG changing the calculus. I now think we can win with our defense alone, and not just our two-way play. So before OG I thought we needed more from our offense than I now do. With OG, this unit just has a ceiling I didn't think it did defensively. So (clearly) I 100% under-estimated the impact OG would have.


And I don't think I ever argued for trading for Lavine as something I wanted to happen...at least not seriously, I'm sure I joked about it during one of those no-Brunson offensive droughts. What I was usually arguing was that if our FO did pursue him, it wouldn't necessarily be the disaster people were making it out to be because:

- Lavine hasn't actually missed that much time in his career and he's still very explosive, even though he's not the same athlete he was...aka the dude's no Zion or Timelord and is closer to Brunson than Mitch.
- his defense isn't as bad as people make it out to be...even though he makes some decisions as a help guy that even Julius couldn't explain...
- playing next to DDR has taught him to be efficient in a more off-ball role, as he should ideally be a 3rd option that doesn't always close games.
- the only time he ever got to play with a starting quality PG, the Bulls were in 1st
- and that once we're over the 2nd apron having a 3rd contract that was big enough to match for a superstar 1-for-1, could actually be really useful because at that point you can no longer aggregate salaries.

So if the FO doesn't have a move lined up for this offseason, that giant contract could actually be more useful to us than two contracts which were half the size & had better trade value.


...at least if we got Caruso too

He's not as special as OG because he just doesn't have the size to guard 5s or the bigger 4s, but AC is a transformative defender in his own right, and I'd love to 04-Pistons our way to a title with OG & AC leading a simply dominant defense.

The idea of keeping a team under 80 points in a finals game while all of these old heads are griping about scoring being up, just tickles me to no end.

[cgf]

It'll be interesting to see how the rotation works out when everyone is healthy. I wonder if Thibs would consider a bigger lineup with Bojan at SF such as C/Randle/Bojan/OG/Brunson. Maybe against bigger teams like the Celtics or Bucks. Bojan is the better player over Burks imo. Think he should get more minutes then just backing up Randle .. And can maybe work out well next to Randle since he's a really good shooter

Definitely going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out if we ever get healthy, especially with how situational some of our depth pieces are.

The big question with Bojan will be on the defensive end. I like that he moves his feet better than I was expecting from a 35yo, but so far he's been an absolute disaster defensively...like his negative impact in his first two games was almost as big as OG's positive impact was in his first two games.

Now some of that has been because he just didn't know our schemes and because we were so beaten up that Thibs stopped practicing the team between games. So hopefully this mini break is giving them the opportunity to get Bogey on the same page with everyone else, but I still need to see Bojan not just immediately implode our defense.

What I could see working is playing Julius, Bojan, and OG together, with Julius banging with the biggest body, OG protecting the rim, and us hiding Bojan the best we can...but I dunno if Thibs would go to a lineup like that if unless forced too by injuries/foul-trouble.

Seems like a fairly safe bet that we won’t be at full health come playoffs. It’s almost institutional malpractice to hire Thibs as coach and then NOT give him veteran bench depth for playoff runs. Otherwise he’s prone to killing your best players.

We’ve got 12 rostered players worthy of playoff rotation minutes, which is a good thing when your coach tends to keep 1/3 of your roster injured at all times.

Yeah, it's a good thing Thibs has adapted so much in his career cause we've actually been healthier than the average team through his tenure, despite his reputation for running guys into the ground.

We won't ever have everyone at 100% with no injuries that they are playing through, but hopefully at some point we get healthy enough for Thibs to get to play the match-up/hot-hand game, rather than just throwing out whoever is healthy & has gas left in the tank.

Because the options he has with this roster look very intriguing on paper, and could leave us a very flexible/adaptable playoff opponent that can put together a lot of very different lineup combinations that should work.

[JayTWill]

Spoiler:

Huh? I'm hoping for Donte to continue getting better and better, as he transforms into a prime Klay...I'm just saying we shouldn't be surprised if that's not how things play out. There's plenty of reasons for Donte to be playing better than he ever has before that make this feel sustainable...but he is shooting way above his career #s, which is generally a redflag until you hit the 100-150 game mark.

And what does IQ have to do with this? If you really want to beat a dead horse, it's Grimes who we should've held onto in case the sexier options fail and we end up needing someone Thibs can trust to defend well without getting Okoro'd by opposing defenses...but that's a pointless discussion as well.

I'm just kidding man. It's just interesting to see how your position has evolved since my introduction to you on the trade board this summer. When I mentioned trading IQ for a longer, more defensive and less ball dominant player since DDV could replace IQ you disagreed. You were very adamant about the need for 4 on-ball creators for the offense to function properly. To see you go from that position to wanting to trade DDV and picks for Lavine as a 3rd creator in the starting lineup to wanting to add Caruso to saying the non-Brunson minutes won't be that big of a deal since he will be playing big minutes in the playoffs is a pretty big shift in such short period of time. What exactly changed from your viewpoint especially with what you thought the team needed offensively?

A large part of my positions changing from the summer has just been seeing the way this offense worked post trade...despite sputtering in the non-Brunson minutes...at least when our starting 5 was still fit. I looked at what we did better than other teams offensively and thought that we needed those advantages for Thibs to run a top unit through Brundle, but then the trade happened.

When confronted with new information we have to adjust our conclusions...and this offense continuing to be a top 10 unit with just 2 creators, showed that we didn't need that relentless rim pressure to succeed offensively; at least when we were getting out in transition and had both halves of Brundle.

I dunno if I under-estimated Brundle given that I've said before I think you can win a title with Brunson as your closer and have defended Julius so much on the GB & Trade board that people over there joked that I must be his agent...but I clearly under-estimated Thibs' offensive creativity & adaptability.


The rest of that is (mostly) OG changing the calculus. I now think we can win with our defense alone, and not just our two-way play. So before OG I thought we needed more from our offense than I now do. With OG, this unit just has a ceiling I didn't think it did defensively. So (clearly) I 100% under-estimated the impact OG would have.


And I don't think I ever argued for trading for Lavine as something I wanted to happen...at least not seriously, I'm sure I joked about it during one of those no-Brunson offensive droughts. What I was usually arguing was that if our FO did pursue him, it wouldn't necessarily be the disaster people were making it out to be because:
- Lavine hasn't actually missed that much time in his career and he's still very explosive even he's not the same athlete he was...aka the dude's no Zion or Timelord.
- his defense isn't as bad as people make it out to be...even though he makes some decisions as a help guy that even Julius couldn't explain...
- playing next to DDR has taught him to be efficient in a more off-ball role, as he should ideally be a 3rd option that doesn't always close games.
- the only time he ever got to play with a starting quality PG, the Bulls were in 1st
- and that once we're over the 2nd apron having a 3rd contract that was big enough to match for a superstar 1-for-1, could actually be really useful because at that point you can no longer aggregate salaries. So if the FO doesn't have a move lined up for this offseason, that giant contract would actually be more useful to us than two contracts that were half the size.


...at least if we got Caruso too He's not as special as OG because he just doesn't have the size to guard 5s or the bigger 4s, but AC is also a transformative defender and I'd love to 04-Pistons our way to a title with OG & AC leading a simply dominant defense. The idea of keeping a team under 80 points in a finals game while all of these old heads are griping about scoring being up, just tickles me to no end.

So basically you are saying that I was right from the beginning. Thank you

I was just giving you a hard time earlier since you often mention the possibility of DDV struggling in the playoffs while still being a huge Randle defender and fan of IQ but rarely mentioning their postseason issues. It was also interesting to see you go from wanting the 4 on-ball scorers to having concerns about this trade and the overall fit of 2 more guys that can play on-ball and possibly fill some of the gap that IQ and RJ left behind.

I'm not sure if I expected the team to play so well immediately after the OG trade but I did think the defense would be much better and the offense in the starting unit would flow much better. I still wish we had the opportunity to see how Grimes would have performed with the new starting unit and how DDV would have performed in the more on-ball IQ role or at least given Grimes more time to adjust. It's part of what makes this Detroit trade so disappointing to me.

[cgf]

Spoiler:

I'm just kidding man. It's just interesting to see how your position has evolved since my introduction to you on the trade board this summer. When I mentioned trading IQ for a longer, more defensive and less ball dominant player since DDV could replace IQ you disagreed. You were very adamant about the need for 4 on-ball creators for the offense to function properly. To see you go from that position to wanting to trade DDV and picks for Lavine as a 3rd creator in the starting lineup to wanting to add Caruso to saying the non-Brunson minutes won't be that big of a deal since he will be playing big minutes in the playoffs is a pretty big shift in such short period of time. What exactly changed from your viewpoint especially with what you thought the team needed offensively?

A large part of my positions changing from the summer has just been seeing the way this offense worked post trade...despite sputtering in the non-Brunson minutes...at least when our starting 5 was still fit. I looked at what we did better than other teams offensively and thought that we needed those advantages for Thibs to run a top unit through Brundle, but then the trade happened.

When confronted with new information we have to adjust our conclusions...and this offense continuing to be a top 10 unit with just 2 creators, showed that we didn't need that relentless rim pressure to succeed offensively; at least when we were getting out in transition and had both halves of Brundle.

I dunno if I under-estimated Brundle given that I've said before I think you can win a title with Brunson as your closer and have defended Julius so much on the GB & Trade board that people over there joked that I must be his agent...but I clearly under-estimated Thibs' offensive creativity & adaptability.


The rest of that is (mostly) OG changing the calculus. I now think we can win with our defense alone, and not just our two-way play. So before OG I thought we needed more from our offense than I now do. With OG, this unit just has a ceiling I didn't think it did defensively. So (clearly) I 100% under-estimated the impact OG would have.


And I don't think I ever argued for trading for Lavine as something I wanted to happen...at least not seriously, I'm sure I joked about it during one of those no-Brunson offensive droughts. What I was usually arguing was that if our FO did pursue him, it wouldn't necessarily be the disaster people were making it out to be because:
- Lavine hasn't actually missed that much time in his career and he's still very explosive even he's not the same athlete he was...aka the dude's no Zion or Timelord.
- his defense isn't as bad as people make it out to be...even though he makes some decisions as a help guy that even Julius couldn't explain...
- playing next to DDR has taught him to be efficient in a more off-ball role, as he should ideally be a 3rd option that doesn't always close games.
- the only time he ever got to play with a starting quality PG, the Bulls were in 1st
- and that once we're over the 2nd apron having a 3rd contract that was big enough to match for a superstar 1-for-1, could actually be really useful because at that point you can no longer aggregate salaries. So if the FO doesn't have a move lined up for this offseason, that giant contract would actually be more useful to us than two contracts that were half the size.


...at least if we got Caruso too He's not as special as OG because he just doesn't have the size to guard 5s or the bigger 4s, but AC is also a transformative defender and I'd love to 04-Pistons our way to a title with OG & AC leading a simply dominant defense. The idea of keeping a team under 80 points in a finals game while all of these old heads are griping about scoring being up, just tickles me to no end.

So basically you are saying that I was right from the beginning. Thank you

I was just giving you a hard time earlier since you often mention the possibility of DDV struggling in the playoffs while still being a huge Randle defender and fan of IQ but rarely mentioning their postseason issues. It was also interesting to see you go from wanting the 4 on-ball scorers to having concerns about this trade and the overall fit of 2 more guys that can play on-ball and possibly fill some of the gap that IQ and RJ left behind.

I'm not sure if I expected the team to play so well immediately after the OG trade but I did think the defense would be much better and the offense in the starting unit would flow much better. I still wish we had the opportunity to see how Grimes would have performed with the new starting unit and how DDV would have performed in the more on-ball IQ role or at least given Grimes more time to adjust. It's part of what makes this Detroit trade so disappointing to me.

I guess so lol. Under-estimating Thibs makes a fool of me yet again


I don't mention it with Randle much anymore, but that's cause at this point I'm tired of talking about Julius' playoff history, and when I have discussed it recently it has been to say that this is a make or break postseason for Julius. We need to see what a healthy Julius can do next to Brunson to know if he's just this generation's DDR...a phrase I've used a lot when talking about Juju...or if he can be a key playoff performer.

And the answer to that question will likely decide Randle's future as a knick...but there's nothing we can really do about this season.

There's also the difference in how they impact a defense if they're not making their shots. My concern with Donte going cold is that teams would stop fearing his shot and start treating him like Hart or like we treated Okoro. Whereas we saw last summer that even when Julius couldn't hit the ocean from a boat, the attention it took to silence him, had a hugely positive impact on Brunson.

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[JayTWill]

For people in favor of this trade do you truly believe it puts the team in position to win a championship this year despite all of the current injuries issues?

Even if this team gets healthy can they win if "playoff Randle" shows up again this year?

If Brunson faces tougher match-ups than guys like Levert, Osman and Vincent this year and his impact drops off some can the team still win a championship?

Do you think Thibs is capable and willing to take advantage of the teams depth and flexibilty and lead them to a championship?

What are the chances you think this team wins it all this year if healthy?

If the team does not win it all this year was the trade worth it just to create another expiring contract to trade next year?

[cgf]

For people in favor of this trade do you truly believe it puts the team in position to win a championship this year despite all of the current injuries issues?

Even if this team gets healthy can they win if "playoff Randle" shows up again this year?

If Brunson faces tougher match-ups than guys like Levert, Osman and Vincent this year and his impact drops off some can the team still win a championship?

Do you think Thibs is capable and willing to take advantage of the teams depth and flexibilty and lead them to a championship?

What are the chances you think this team wins it all this year if healthy?

If the team does not win it all this year was the trade worth it just to create another expiring contract to trade next year?

Not a big fan of the trade...I think Grimes could've been a great option for the closing lineup in the playoffs because he's a better defender than DDV who's 3ball teams have to respect unlike Hart...and I'm skeptical that Thibs will play Julius & Bojan together much...but I think the answer to most of your questions is a firm maybe.

Not even throwing Jimmy at Brunson slowed him down, and Okoro's no joke defensively...even if his jumper is Hart-esque...so I don't think there are many concerns about JB. Whereas if JR can't better his Miami series...19-10-4 on 53% TS...we're most likely not going to win...but we might.

Mitch was anchoring a top 10 unit when he got hurt. OG was anchoring the best defense in the NBA before he got hurt. If we get both healthy before the playoffs, who knows what our ceiling would be. That's a potentially dominant defensive + a lethal closer, even if Julius ends up more of a decoy.


But I also think that this trade was less about how it impacts our "fully healthy" lineup...though it does give us some new interesting options...or hedging against Julius struggling again. And that it was more about getting to the playoffs without burning Brundle out, and turning the Fournier contract into a more useful salary slot for any offseason trades.

[stuporman]

This wasn't the 'final piece' trade but it is kind of sad that Grimes got sacrificed for the 'salary punt/depth' trade. Especially considering that it forces us fans to watch Burks call his own number while not playing any defense when the player he replaced in the rotation played within the flow of the offense while playing great defense.

Bogs probably isn't going to make a huge playoff impact if all the players come back healthy for them, so the saving grace of his presence is that his reputation and trade value is much better than Fournier. We can hope that if he is part of a deal that is closer to the 'star' trade everyone is waiting on he can be more than just salary filler so offset some of the assets needed to get it done.

[Jalen Bluntson]

This trade did nothing to address our depth NEEDS. Especially in the midst of the wheels falling of an historic run. It was purely a salary punt and Thibs getting a trash vet to play instead of an up and coming young player. Vets over kids and running players into the ground are the two biggest fears I had when he was hired. Go figure.

[aggo]

This trade did nothing to address our depth NEEDS.

ok

what were our needs

and were you prepared to give up first round picks for them? or Donte?

[Jalen Bluntson]

This trade did nothing to address our depth NEEDS.

ok

what were our needs

and were you prepared to give up first round picks for them? or Donte?

Is this is a serious question? If you don't know what our needs were you don't watch the games,
Backup PG/backup C

You don't need to overspend for backups but, yes, I would have offered one of this years FRPs or the WAS/DET FRPs to make it happen.

We needed a player who could do better running the offense than Deuce could when Brunson sits. Preferably one who could also score at a decent clip. We got Burks, but Thibs basically benched Deuce for him. STUPID MOVE.

We need a true Center to come off the bench who was better than Sims and could help rebound and defend the paint. We got Boj? Another stupid move considering we sacrificed one of our best defenders to get him. We also have an achilles injured starting C who used to be the backup to our injury plagued starting C. We needed help here.

As a result of this trade we were STILL shorthanded and went on a 4 game slide. It did NOTHING to address our bench NEEDS. We lost Grimes great defense and most of Deuce playing defense for players we didn't need. Burks NEXT TO Deuce might be a better version of this trade but, that's not what we have seen so far.

[aggo]

This trade did nothing to address our depth NEEDS.

ok

what were our needs

and were you prepared to give up first round picks for them? or Donte?

Is this is a serious question? If you don't know what our needs were you don't watch the games,
Backup PG/backup C

You don't need to overspend for backups but, yes, I would have offered one of this years FRPs or the WAS/DET FRPs to make it happen.

We needed a player who could do better running the offense than Deuce could when Brunson sits. Preferably one who could also score at a decent clip. We got Burks, but Thibs basically benched Deuce for him. STUPID MOVE.

We need a true Center to come off the bench who was better than Sims and could help rebound and defend the paint. We got Boj? Another stupid move considering we sacrificed one of our best defenders to get him. We also have an achilles injured starting C who used to be the backup to our injury plagued starting C. We needed help here.

As a result of this trade we were STILL shorthanded and went on a 4 game slide. It did NOTHING to address our bench NEEDS. We lost Grimes great defense and most of Deuce playing defense for players we didn't need. Burks NEXT TO Deuce might be a better version of this trade but, that's not what we have seen so far.

the fact that you are willing to offer FRPs for rentals or backups tells me everything we need to know

[Jalen Bluntson]

ok

what were our needs

and were you prepared to give up first round picks for them? or Donte?

Is this is a serious question? If you don't know what our needs were you don't watch the games,
Backup PG/backup C

You don't need to overspend for backups but, yes, I would have offered one of this years FRPs or the WAS/DET FRPs to make it happen.

We needed a player who could do better running the offense than Deuce could when Brunson sits. Preferably one who could also score at a decent clip. We got Burks, but Thibs basically benched Deuce for him. STUPID MOVE.

We need a true Center to come off the bench who was better than Sims and could help rebound and defend the paint. We got Boj? Another stupid move considering we sacrificed one of our best defenders to get him. We also have an achilles injured starting C who used to be the backup to our injury plagued starting C. We needed help here.

As a result of this trade we were STILL shorthanded and went on a 4 game slide. It did NOTHING to address our bench NEEDS. We lost Grimes great defense and most of Deuce playing defense for players we didn't need. Burks NEXT TO Deuce might be a better version of this trade but, that's not what we have seen so far.

the fact that you are willing to offer FRPs for rentals or backups tells me everything we need to know

Does it really? Well...good for you. We didn't trade any(but we did) and we got a trash package. I am willing to pay for actual useful talent. Not players like Burks and a washed Boj that cost us the Detroit pick which, is considered a late FRP value wise with two more picks plus Grimes...who was a FRP. So technically we traded two FROs for this garbage. But, you have been told everything WE need to know? Hilarious. You didn't even know what we needed to begin with.

[aggo]

Is this is a serious question? If you don't know what our needs were you don't watch the games,
Backup PG/backup C

You don't need to overspend for backups but, yes, I would have offered one of this years FRPs or the WAS/DET FRPs to make it happen.

We needed a player who could do better running the offense than Deuce could when Brunson sits. Preferably one who could also score at a decent clip. We got Burks, but Thibs basically benched Deuce for him. STUPID MOVE.

We need a true Center to come off the bench who was better than Sims and could help rebound and defend the paint. We got Boj? Another stupid move considering we sacrificed one of our best defenders to get him. We also have an achilles injured starting C who used to be the backup to our injury plagued starting C. We needed help here.

As a result of this trade we were STILL shorthanded and went on a 4 game slide. It did NOTHING to address our bench NEEDS. We lost Grimes great defense and most of Deuce playing defense for players we didn't need. Burks NEXT TO Deuce might be a better version of this trade but, that's not what we have seen so far.

the fact that you are willing to offer FRPs for rentals or backups tells me everything we need to know

Does it really? Well...good for you. We didn't trade any(but we did) and we got a trash package. I am willing to pay for actual useful talent. Not players like Burks and a washed Boj that cost us the Detroit pick which, is considered a late FRP value wise with two more picks plus Grimes...who was a FRP. So technically we traded two FROs for this garbage. But, you have been told everything WE need to know? Hilarious. You didn't even know what we needed to begin with.

a guy thats literally averaging right at what hes been averaging the last 5 years is washed? a guy thats shooting 40% from three at his career high in attempts is washed?

bro

and u are saying Im not watching the team?




as to the original premise:


stars win championships. not backups.


you trade frps for stars. not backups.

[stuporman]

Burks has played something like 6 mins across 3 games where it could be considered 'Deuce mins' because Brunson was off the floor and during that stretch Deuce has still gotten about 20mpg. There is no evidence that Thibs is benching Deuce for Burks just yet but I'm keeping my eyes on the situation as more players come back from injury to see how the rotation shakes out.

[JayTWill]

I understand the need for depth and salary to roll over to next season but i'm unsure why we chose these 2 guys at this cost. Why as an injury riddled team would they trade for 34/35 year old with calf and achilles issues? Thibs demands maximum effort and energy defensively. Bogey is at an age where maximum effort and energy can get him hurt. He is skilled enough to play at his own speed offensively. Defensively he does not have that luxury. It says a lot that he could not even make it to the all-star break without injury for a team that is desperate for bodies to throw on the court. He is needed now more than ever.

The second unit lacked organization partly because of McBride's limited point guard skills. Why bring in Burks to fill in that role when he also is not a point guard? Why bring in 2 more offensive options for a coach that is not great at creating offensive schemes? The team was full of offensive talent to start the season but it was essentially just 4 guys taking turns pounding the air out of the ball. Grimes was cannibalized. DDV was just standing around and watching but has now excelled with IQ and RJ gone. Grimes looked like he was turning things around. What will be different this time with more offensive options?

If the plan was to add depth and tradeable contracts why give up Grimes in the process? Detroit sent out 2 2nd round picks to get off of Bagley's $12.5 million next season. We could have grabbed Bagley and flipped those 2 seconds to Washington plus maybe one of the other 2nd round picks we sent to Detroit for someone like Shamet while only giving up Fournier. Grimes, Bagley, and Shamet could have eaten up some minutes while waiting for the other rotation players to get healthy. 3 guys age 23/24 to 26/27 would surely have more trade value than a 35 year old Bojan right?

If this is a win-now move why trade for 2 ageing players from the worst team in the league that have shown no positive impact on winning on or off the court? What am I missing in this trade that was worth giving up Grimes for? Is Bojan that good? Is his overall impact more positive than Grimes? It just feels like they were trying to do too much at once and basically accomplished nothing other than paying to flip Fournier into another contract.

[JayTWill]

Burks has played something like 6 mins across 3 games where it could be considered 'Deuce mins' because Brunson was off the floor and during that stretch Deuce has still gotten about 20mpg. There is no evidence that Thibs is benching Deuce for Burks just yet but I'm keeping my eyes on the situation as more players come back from injury to see how the rotation shakes out.

I believe DDV played 41 minutes in that Houston game and was taken out with over 5 minutes left in the game. DDV didn't return due to injury. Deuce only played 5 minutes in that game. With how shorthanded the team is it is a bit concerning that Deuce would log so few minutes. I'm not sure if that was a sign that Thibs may have been beginning to phase him out. Deuce's minutes went back up the next game but Thibs had no other options with Donte out unless he was willing to play Brunson and Burks 48 minutes each.

[Jalen Bluntson]

the fact that you are willing to offer FRPs for rentals or backups tells me everything we need to know

Does it really? Well...good for you. We didn't trade any(but we did) and we got a trash package. I am willing to pay for actual useful talent. Not players like Burks and a washed Boj that cost us the Detroit pick which, is considered a late FRP value wise with two more picks plus Grimes...who was a FRP. So technically we traded two FROs for this garbage. But, you have been told everything WE need to know? Hilarious. You didn't even know what we needed to begin with.

a guy thats literally averaging right at what hes been averaging the last 5 years is washed? a guy thats shooting 40% from three at his career high in attempts is washed?

bro

and u are saying Im not watching the team?




as to the original premise:


stars win championships. not backups.


you trade frps for stars. not backups.

Bro...we didn't need either player when we traded for them and we will need them even less when/if the team is healthy. So my point still stands no matter what you think. This trade did nothing to address our depth NEEDS.

We traded what most value as a late FRP from DET and Grimes who was a FRP. So we basically sent out two FRPs and two 2RPs in this trade. It was a waste to add Grimes to this deal.

Bad trade. Period.