1997-’10 Lakers: Replace Kobe w/ James Harden

[Matt15]

How many titles would the Lakers win from 1997-10 if you replace Kobe with Harden? In this scenario Harden has same supporting cast each year that Kobe had.

97 Lakers-10 Harden
98 Lakers-11 Harden
99 Lakers-12 Harden
00 Lakers-13 Harden
01 Lakers-14 Harden
02 Lakers-15 Harden
03 Lakers-16 Harden
04 Lakers-17 Harden
05 Lakers-18 Harden
06 Lakers-19 Harden
07 Lakers-20 Harden
08 Lakers-21 Harden
09 Lakers-22 Harden
10 Lakers-23 Harden

[SportsGuru08]

Is this a serious question? We all know Harden vanishes when the lights get brighter. The answer is zero.

[One_and_Done]

Harden fades in the playoffs, but faded Harden is surprisingly comparable to playoffs Kobe at times. People forget how many bad playoff series Kobe has. Ultimately the Lakers might win more tbh.

[TheGOATRises007]

I think they still win in 2000 and 2001. I think they lose more games in 2001 and that series vs the Spurs becomes much closer.

I think they lose vs the Kings in 2002 with Harden instead.

I think they still get to the finals in 2004, but I see them losing again. Albeit in a closer series.

If 21 Harden still hurts his hammy, then I don't think that team gets past the Jazz in 2008.

And I don't think they make the finals in 2009 nor 2010.

[SportsGuru08]

Harden fades in the playoffs, but faded Harden is surprisingly comparable to playoffs Kobe at times. People forget how many bad playoff series Kobe has. Ultimately the Lakers might win more tbh.

One difference is Kobe can make up for poor shooting games with defense, something Harden doesn't do

[Slava]

One during the three peat owing to Shaq’s greatness but the idea of pairing one ultra talented player with less regard for preparation and dedication with another sets off all alarm bells.

[One_and_Done]

Harden fades in the playoffs, but faded Harden is surprisingly comparable to playoffs Kobe at times. People forget how many bad playoff series Kobe has. Ultimately the Lakers might win more tbh.

One difference is Kobe can make up for poor shooting games with defense, something Harden doesn't do

Kobe's D was overrated then, and would be even worse today. I don't think the trump card when comparing 2 offensive dynamos should be "this one has better D". That's not how they're moving the needle.

[70sFan]

I'd like to see Harden making adjustment for Shaq. I can imagine him being very good second option next to an off-ball bigman like O'Neal, but it depends on whether he'd buy that or not.

[Slava]

I'd like to see Harden making adjustment for Shaq. I can imagine him being very good second option next to an off-ball bigman like O'Neal, but it depends on whether he'd buy that or not.

How is Shaq an off ball big man? Shaq would beat the lumps out of a teammate if they didn’t throw him the ball in the post two possessions in a row. Can you imagine him being happy setting screens for Harden and rolling to catch lobs? If Harden wasn’t happy next to Embiid because he could t cook, do you think he’d be any happier with Shaq, a more dominant post scorer who served as an offensive fulcrum in Phil’s triangle?

[70sFan]

I'd like to see Harden making adjustment for Shaq. I can imagine him being very good second option next to an off-ball bigman like O'Neal, but it depends on whether he'd buy that or not.

How is Shaq an off ball big man? Shaq would beat the lumps out of a teammate if they didn’t throw him the ball in the post two possessions in a row. Can you imagine him being happy setting screens for Harden and rolling to catch lobs? If Harden wasn’t happy next to Embiid because he could t cook, do you think he’d be any happier with Shaq, a more dominant post scorer who served as an offensive fulcrum in Phil’s triangle?

Shaq did 90% of his work without the ball, that's how he played and that's what made him the most dangerous.

Harden actually worked quite well with Embiid by the way, at least on the court. We're talking about much younger Harden anyway.

[scrabbarista]

Maybe between 3 and 5;

but not '09 or '10, and probably not '08.

His best chances would be '99-'04.

I voted 3, but I think 4 would be about as likely, and 5 would be totally doable.

[eminence]

Without getting into the 'Would Shaq stay?' hypothetical - I see them as contenders in the Shaq years, like Harden a bit more than Kobe early, but don't see them getting over the Jazz/Spurs in the 90's. '00-'04 likely still their best chances, I think they get about the same number ~3, maybe not all the same years, but they're competitive all 5 for certain. After Shaq leaves nobody was taking '05-'07 to contention but I'm sure Harden would've done as well as anybody (non-LeBron) could floating those teams. '21-'23 Harden I don't see getting any rings there, a step off his best, injured a fair amount.

So I'll guess 3, 2-4 the range imo.

[Dribble Handoff]

He’s not gonna be able to play Harden ball in that era with those rosters. He relies on constantly driving to draw fouls and needs space to do so. Shaq’s big ass parked in the middle, with that 00s playstyle / officiating will have him looking sad. I’d put money on them not winning a single title.

[CKRT]

Crazy amounts of slander in this thread considering how much glazing TMac has gotten in hypotheticals involving this exact scenario while being several tiers below Harden.

Harden/Shaq would be absolutely broken.

[OhayoKD]

I'd like to see Harden making adjustment for Shaq. I can imagine him being very good second option next to an off-ball bigman like O'Neal, but it depends on whether he'd buy that or not.

How is Shaq an off ball big man? Shaq would beat the lumps out of a teammate if they didn’t throw him the ball in the post two possessions in a row. Can you imagine him being happy setting screens for Harden and rolling to catch lobs? If Harden wasn’t happy next to Embiid because he could t cook, do you think he’d be any happier with Shaq, a more dominant post scorer who served as an offensive fulcrum in Phil’s triangle?

You answered your own question

[SportsGuru08]

Harden fades in the playoffs, but faded Harden is surprisingly comparable to playoffs Kobe at times. People forget how many bad playoff series Kobe has. Ultimately the Lakers might win more tbh.

One difference is Kobe can make up for poor shooting games with defense, something Harden doesn't do

Kobe's D was overrated then, and would be even worse today. I don't think the trump card when comparing 2 offensive dynamos should be "this one has better D". That's not how they're moving the needle.

Even if Kobe's defense was "overrated" as you claim, Harden's defense is virtually non-existent. Add this with Shaq, a player notoriously bad at defending the pick and roll along with Harden's vanishing acts, and the Lakers never win anything

[One_and_Done]

If Harden plays a modern style during that time period he'll be like a cheat code on offense. So much so I'm not even sure how much his miserable D will matter. He's also not utterly hopeless. He's not bad switching onto bigger guys, where he can use his weight. Not hopeless anyway.

[Asianiac_24]

1 or 2 in 2001/2002.