70sFan wrote:SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:I watched some of a random 1984 playoffs Celtics vs Knicks game last night. In that small random sample the Knicks had King defending Bird and King played great defense and sort of looked like Kawhi playing defense.
So, here is game 7 of the series:
0:10 - solid off-ball defense on Bird, lacked length to bother Bird jumpshot but good effort
7:19 - easily beaten in the post by Bird
8:42 - blown by Bird, but great recovery and block for behind
13:12 - outmuscled by Bird on the boards, foul on Bird
13:40 - bitten on a pumpfake, foul on Bird
28:15 - no closeout on Bird in transition
30:10 - off-ball miscommunication leading to open dunk inside
36:50 - missed Bird off-ball, leading to open jumpshot made
40:10 - regular contest on Bird jumpshot, Larry with a rare airball
44:23 - lost Bird off-ball completely, Larry missed open jumpshot
45:00 - horrible post defense on an off-ball cut, open layup by Bird
46:20 - missed Bird off-ball for a moment, then blown by on a closeout but Bird turned the ball over in a trap
53:21 - prevented from baseline attack in the high post, then Bird passed out of double
57:10 - Bird doubled in the high post, leading to a basket
58:15 - Bird doubled in the post again, leading to a basket
59:15 - sagged off Bird to prevent from entry pass, bad choice - Bird made open three
59:48 - nice steal from behind against McHale
1:01:30 - decent post defense
1:05:20 - illegal defense on King
1:09:28 - poor closeout on a trap scheme, then he had no idea who was left to guard
1:11:00 - bad perimeter defense on Wedman
1:12:55 - solid effort in trapping scheme
1:16:35 - wrong rotation left Ainge open
From then, Knicks basically tried desperately to steal the ball from Boston, so I won't go further.
It's not an all-time bad defensive performance by any means, but I don't see any "Kawhi" in him here. He had two nice plays on Bird, but most of the time he was overmatched with Bird's size and he didn't do a well job off-ball on Bird (thankfully for him, Bird didn't move much without the ball in that game). On top of that, he didn't exist as a help defender either.
Maybe I am watching the wrong game, but it's game 7 of the ECSF - is there a better moment to play the best defense of his life?No the 1984 Knicks did not have particularly good defenders. Cartwright had lost his mobility due to injury and was still not that expeirienced. Truck was old. Tucker was slightly better than average on defense. Sparrow was a good but not great defender.
Backing them up Ray Williams still had his speed but cocaine had turned his mind and game to mush. Loui Orr was not horrible but was a below average defender. Injury had changed a once very good defender in Marvin Webster into just a slightly better than average defender.
Guys who barely played. Walker would become a great defender but this is rookie Walker. Grunfeld was not a could defender.
There is nobody on that 1984 playoff Knick team that I can clearly say was a better defender than King. The sample I watched was large enough to show that 1984 King had the tools to be a great defender.
The Knicks were the best defensive team in the league in 1983/84, they were 3rd the season before as well. Of course, they were also coached by Hubie. It's silly to think that they didn't have a good defensive roster.The Bernard King in your mind is not 1984 playoffs King. You must have physically broken from injury Bullets King and young inexperienced cocaine using King who was demoralized as a defender by playing on teams where nobody played defense.
I don't need to have anyone "in mind", when I want to see how player plays, I simply watch his games.
I'm afraid that it's you who have a mythologized version of King in mind. King was an all-time great scorer and very solid all-nba guy at his peak. He wasn't a good defender, rebounder or playmaker. Scoring was the only thing he did at above average level, that's not top 10 peak ever level guy.
This video contains content from the Orchard Entertainment ….. that can not be played in your country. I can get game 7 video that can be played in my country USA. It seems you either are not in the USA, are using a foreign VPN or are subscribed to whoever owns the video.
Bird creates problems. You must stop Bird’s dribble or Bird will kill you as a passer. The slower power forwards can not stop Bird’s dribble but quick people like Michael Cooper, Paul Pressey or Bernard King can stop Bird’s dribble but Bird can shoot over them and Bird is too strong for them. Putting speed on Bird that will be over-powered by Bird is not as bad of a choice as putting big strong guys on Bird that can’t stop Bird’s dribble thereby allowing Bird to wander arround in the paint with a live dribble knowing that Bird will eventually find the right open angle for a good shot or a good pass.
Most teams put their best defender on Bird which tells me the Knicks think King is their best defender at forward. You could take Truck out and let Grunfeld or Orr guard Bird. Old Truck can’t guard Maxwell or McHale anyway and isn’t such a good scorer that you can’t afford to lose his scoring. Orr and Grunfeld can afford to foul out so they can hack Bird. Orr is kind of tall and kind of fast but not a smart experienced defender. When Orr was in the game vs Bird and Maxwell Orr took Maxwell leaving King on Bird.
I think I was watching the 1st quarter of game 3. King looked like a very good defender. It was the game in which due to injury Dennis Johnson did not play in the 1st quarter but Dennis Johnson was dressed in uniform.
