Ingram Offers

[MKWB]

It's time for another round of "trade one of the Pelicans' 'Big 2'." With Zion and Ingram both mostly healthy for a full season this year, it's clear to many that they don't compliment each other's games well. With Zion rounding out to form with still higher potential, and Ingram's looming extension talks, let's say that the Pels' front office decides to take offers for Ingram this offseason and/or Ingram expresses a desire to move out of Zion's shadow.

Some things to keep in mind with Ingram-- yes, he's entering the last season of his contract and can extend this summer or enter UFA w/ bird rights in 2025 offseason. He may require a max extension, but it's also possible he could take slightly less than the max max with the right team/situation. His defense has improved this season, and he's at his best as an on-ball playmaker who can set up shooters, cutters, lobbers or score effectively in the mid-range. Downsides-- he's reluctant to shoot a high volume of 3's and is not very engaged off-ball.


Which teams do you think would be most interested in trading for Brandon Ingram? And what are some frameworks of trades they would offer? Remember, like with most trades, the offer would have to be better than what other teams woud offer PLUS a good enough offer to make the Pels not just keep him for this transaction cycle. They'd probably rather send him to the East, but will also listen to West offers. Pels have needs at Center and Point Guard, and they're probably more interested in mostly win-now young players or a special rookie (Topic?) that can also help win now. In theory, they could also add their own picks to Ingram to swap for a real star upgrade.

Some ideas of teams and assets:

Pistons- tired of being bad, could offer one of Ivey or thier '24 top-5 pick, plus Stewart

Hornets- new ownership could look to make a 'splash' for an available semi-star. Could offer 2024 top-5 pick and/or Mark Williams, plus salary filler (G. Williams, Micic, Bertans)

Nets-- with true stars (Mitchell, Young) out of reach, they could pivot to this available semi-star playmaking wing to run the offense through. Bridges and Ingram are with the same agency (Excel Sports) and played together on Team USA. Assets available for a BI trade: Cam Johnson/Thomas, DFS, Schroeder, Claxton S&T, future PHX/PHI/DAL picks, Clowney/Whitehead.

Hawks-- maybe too much of a lateral move for them with Murray + Capela/Okongwu as the offer. Hunter/Bogdan + Okongwu interesting as a base offer, but don't see Hawks pairing Trae/Murray and Ingram all as on-ball players.

Jazz-- Ainge could look to get a co-star for Markkanen. Potential assets/salaries to trade: Sexton, Collins, future picks, Kessler

Kings-- If they underperform missing the playoffs or struggling in the play-in, they could get desperate to get Fox/Sabonis another real creator. Murray would be the dream return for Pelicans, butKings probably only would offer Huerter + Barnes and future picks.

Rockets-- They want to make another leap into serious playoff contention. Amen/Sengun/Whitmore look like the true keepers, and Green's value isn't great now. Jabari Smith would be the ideal centerpiece return for Pelicans, but Rockets probably decline that. The top-10 '24 Nets pick and future Nets pick could be in play.

Blazers-- Could look to add a youngish prime semi-star to lift their young core. top-5 draft pick as centerpiece, with Brogdon/RWIII as matching salary? Grant doesn't make sense for Pels as return and Blazers would probably want to keep him to pair with Ingram. Scoot probably still off-limits, even with the early struggles. Ayton not valuable, and Simons could be interesting, but awkward with the repeated overlap with McCullom.

Thoughts? *(high-quality responses only)*

[Foshan]

This will probably not be a high quality response, so feel free to ignore

Philly should be interested. Philly S&Ts T.Harris, with an assortment of future picks (not this years as S&T has to be done after draft). We have a number of oddly protected (or unprotected) picks that could be available. I like the idea of Ingram… however his warts seem very similar to Harris’

NO gets a get that can help them to stay competitive, while hoping that a pick lands them a gem down the road (or they reshuffle the picks and salary for another upgrade)

[HadAnEffectHere]

Utah is really interesting, but I think the Jazz might only go in this direction if they can get a great guard as well to pair with Markkanen and Ingram.

I don't think those guys as your only stars is a contending team, but add a fringe star at PG and things start getting interesting.

So the Jazz probably are into this, but only if they can pull off a prior trade for a star level PG and then still have assets left over for Ingram.

[jayjaysee]

Ingram’s extension would be limited if it’s part of a trade. Is he agreeing to a deal worth less than a 25% max? Because that’s what he’d be limited to in this example.. Once he’s been on his new team for 6 months, he can extend to his max.. But that means a team keeping him as an expiring through half the season..

Ingram on a 25% max is a completely different valuation than Ingram on an expiring chasing a 30% max.. Same as Pascal and most second tier stars, that’s a big impact on trade value.

[mg]

Utah is really interesting, but I think the Jazz might only go in this direction if they can get a great guard as well to pair with Markkanen and Ingram.

I don't think those guys as your only stars is a contending team, but add a fringe star at PG and things start getting interesting.

So the Jazz probably are into this, but only if they can pull off a prior trade for a star level PG and then still have assets left over for Ingram.

Anything can happen but don't really see it for Utah. If they are going to give Lauri a 30% max deal I can't see them offering another 30% max to someone like Ingram who is also, at best, a #2 on a potential deep playoff type team. They would need to give up a considerable chunk of their warchest in addition to paying him. I do think Ainge would go all in at some point for a slam dunk type acquisition (Luka tier player) but going back to his Celtic GM days he's typically not one to pay premium assets for an Ingram type.

[NYG]

It's time for another round of "trade one of the Pelicans' 'Big 2'." With Zion and Ingram both mostly healthy for a full season this year, it's clear to many that they don't compliment each other's games well. With Zion rounding out to form with still higher potential, and Ingram's looming extension talks, let's say that the Pels' front office decides to take offers for Ingram this offseason and/or Ingram expresses a desire to move out of Zion's shadow.

Some things to keep in mind with Ingram-- yes, he's entering the last season of his contract and can extend this summer or enter UFA w/ bird rights in 2025 offseason. He may require a max extension, but it's also possible he could take slightly less than the max max with the right team/situation. His defense has improved this season, and he's at his best as an on-ball playmaker who can set up shooters, cutters, lobbers or score effectively in the mid-range. Downsides-- he's reluctant to shoot a high volume of 3's and is not very engaged off-ball.


Which teams do you think would be most interested in trading for Brandon Ingram? And what are some frameworks of trades they would offer? Remember, like with most trades, the offer would have to be better than what other teams woud offer PLUS a good enough offer to make the Pels not just keep him for this transaction cycle. They'd probably rather send him to the East, but will also listen to West offers. Pels have needs at Center and Point Guard, and they're probably more interested in mostly win-now young players or a special rookie (Topic?) that can also help win now. In theory, they could also add their own picks to Ingram to swap for a real star upgrade.

Some ideas of teams and assets:

Pistons- tired of being bad, could offer one of Ivey or thier '24 top-5 pick, plus Stewart

Hornets- new ownership could look to make a 'splash' for an available semi-star. Could offer 2024 top-5 pick and/or Mark Williams, plus salary filler (G. Williams, Micic, Bertans)

Nets-- with true stars (Mitchell, Young) out of reach, they could pivot to this available semi-star playmaking wing to run the offense through. Bridges and Ingram are with the same agency (Excel Sports) and played together on Team USA. Assets available for a BI trade: Cam Johnson/Thomas, DFS, Schroeder, Claxton S&T, future PHX/PHI/DAL picks, Clowney/Whitehead.

Hawks-- maybe too much of a lateral move for them with Murray + Capela/Okongwu as the offer. Hunter/Bogdan + Okongwu interesting as a base offer, but don't see Hawks pairing Trae/Murray and Ingram all as on-ball players.

Jazz-- Ainge could look to get a co-star for Markkanen. Potential assets/salaries to trade: Sexton, Collins, future picks, Kessler

Kings-- If they underperform missing the playoffs or struggling in the play-in, they could get desperate to get Fox/Sabonis another real creator. Murray would be the dream return for Pelicans, butKings probably only would offer Huerter + Barnes and future picks.

Rockets-- They want to make another leap into serious playoff contention. Amen/Sengun/Whitmore look like the true keepers, and Green's value isn't great now. Jabari Smith would be the ideal centerpiece return for Pelicans, but Rockets probably decline that. The top-10 '24 Nets pick and future Nets pick could be in play.

Blazers-- Could look to add a youngish prime semi-star to lift their young core. top-5 draft pick as centerpiece, with Brogdon/RWIII as matching salary? Grant doesn't make sense for Pels as return and Blazers would probably want to keep him to pair with Ingram. Scoot probably still off-limits, even with the early struggles. Ayton not valuable, and Simons could be interesting, but awkward with the repeated overlap with McCullom.

Thoughts? *(high-quality responses only)*

Brooklyn feels like a good match for me. They could offer win now veteran talent (I don't see New Orleans trading Ingram for picks as they're trying to compete now).

Cam Johnson, DFS, Clowney and '29 Mavs 1st for Ingram and Nance Jr.?

[HadAnEffectHere]

Utah is really interesting, but I think the Jazz might only go in this direction if they can get a great guard as well to pair with Markkanen and Ingram.

I don't think those guys as your only stars is a contending team, but add a fringe star at PG and things start getting interesting.

So the Jazz probably are into this, but only if they can pull off a prior trade for a star level PG and then still have assets left over for Ingram.

Anything can happen but don't really see it for Utah. If they are going to give Lauri a 30% max deal I can't see them offering another 30% max to someone like Ingram who is also, at best, a #2 on a potential deep playoff type team. They would need to give up a considerable chunk of their warchest in addition to paying him. I do think Ainge would go all in at some point for a slam dunk type acquisition (Luka tier player) but going back to his Celtic GM days he's typically not one to pay premium assets for an Ingram type.

I guess, but the team is going nowhere and the players are upset about it.

They've intentionally missed the postseason for mediocre draft picks two years in a row and everyone is fairly upset and confused. If you're gonna tank, tank...

Ingram is the only star (and he's more like a very good #3 than anything else) who

1. Will probably be available in the offseason
2. Is not good enough to dictate his destination away from Utah due to threats he would refuse to sign an extension as he could get a max elsewhere.

The Jazz either need to be good or actually tank hard next year, another year of tanking for the 8th pick is going to drive everyone mad.

Luka and Embiid would never go to Utah over OKC. Trae and Durant and Mitchell would never go to Utah. Paul George and Harden would never go to Utah. Maybe KAT would be fine here? But he's literally the worst fit imaginable with Markkanen. Kyle Kuzma would go to Utah but he's uhhhhhh, not good... Jerami Grant would go to Utah but he's not great and is wildly overpaid. Maybe Randle would go to Utah I guess but the Knicks are only trading him if he has another terrible postseason so then why would we want him... DeJounte Murray is not great, Zach LaVine is not great. The Jazz could trade for a guy like Jalen Green and Evan Mobley and hope they blow up into stars, but this is not super likely.

[jayjaysee]

What team would want Randle in order to make an Ingram/Randle swap make sense? How much would NY have to add? Could see Kessler/Randle/Lauri? It’s eh but wouldn’t cost much of the draft capital and Ainge could go hunting for a first option guard once Lauri extends..

NY could make a pick package offer and guarantee Bojan to cover half the salary, but I don’t love Brunson/Ingram/Randle together.

[kds92]

Hornets, Spurs, and even the Raptors possibly. Would have to be 3-team deals if the Pels want to compete.

I still like the Pels trying to get Trae for Ingram/Daniels/1-2 1sts.

Lakers would be interested, but I'm guessing their best assets would have to be sent to a 3rd team (Reaves, JHS, 2-3 1sts, swaps)

[vege]

Pistons- tired of being bad, could offer one of Ivey or thier '24 top-5 pick, plus Stewart

He is an expiring. I'd pass. He is a good fit tho, too bad his contract situation and to a lesser extent his injuries make this a no go, that's the kind of player Detroit should be targetting with either Ivey and the pick.

[Mike lorenzo]

I don't think the Jazz should follow that path, I would trade Lauri for a high pick (to the Pistons) and tank hard for at least a year ahead of the next Draft... I like it for HOUSTON,..

J.Green + Nets FRP to HORNETS

Ingram to HOUSTON

HORNETS FRP(+-#4) to NOP..

They save a ton of money by solving their financial problems, and they get 1 high pick + the one they have from LAKERS to plug their holes in PG/C

[BK_2020]

Teams bad enough to draft in the top 5 don't trade for 27 year old B-list stars. There's no point in doing so because Brandon Ingram isn't going to turn a bottom 5 team into a contender and such teams have a lot of young players anyway.
The only time in recent memory where a top 5 pick was traded for a player in Ingram's situation (1 year left pre-UFA) was for AD, and that was because the Lakers landed Lebron in FA and AD is tiers above Ingram.

[JRoy]

It's time for another round of "trade one of the Pelicans' 'Big 2'." With Zion and Ingram both mostly healthy for a full season this year, it's clear to many that they don't compliment each other's games well. With Zion rounding out to form with still higher potential, and Ingram's looming extension talks, let's say that the Pels' front office decides to take offers for Ingram this offseason and/or Ingram expresses a desire to move out of Zion's shadow.

Some things to keep in mind with Ingram-- yes, he's entering the last season of his contract and can extend this summer or enter UFA w/ bird rights in 2025 offseason. He may require a max extension, but it's also possible he could take slightly less than the max max with the right team/situation. His defense has improved this season, and he's at his best as an on-ball playmaker who can set up shooters, cutters, lobbers or score effectively in the mid-range. Downsides-- he's reluctant to shoot a high volume of 3's and is not very engaged off-ball.


Which teams do you think would be most interested in trading for Brandon Ingram? And what are some frameworks of trades they would offer? Remember, like with most trades, the offer would have to be better than what other teams woud offer PLUS a good enough offer to make the Pels not just keep him for this transaction cycle. They'd probably rather send him to the East, but will also listen to West offers. Pels have needs at Center and Point Guard, and they're probably more interested in mostly win-now young players or a special rookie (Topic?) that can also help win now. In theory, they could also add their own picks to Ingram to swap for a real star upgrade.

Some ideas of teams and assets:

Pistons- tired of being bad, could offer one of Ivey or thier '24 top-5 pick, plus Stewart

Hornets- new ownership could look to make a 'splash' for an available semi-star. Could offer 2024 top-5 pick and/or Mark Williams, plus salary filler (G. Williams, Micic, Bertans)

Nets-- with true stars (Mitchell, Young) out of reach, they could pivot to this available semi-star playmaking wing to run the offense through. Bridges and Ingram are with the same agency (Excel Sports) and played together on Team USA. Assets available for a BI trade: Cam Johnson/Thomas, DFS, Schroeder, Claxton S&T, future PHX/PHI/DAL picks, Clowney/Whitehead.

Hawks-- maybe too much of a lateral move for them with Murray + Capela/Okongwu as the offer. Hunter/Bogdan + Okongwu interesting as a base offer, but don't see Hawks pairing Trae/Murray and Ingram all as on-ball players.

Jazz-- Ainge could look to get a co-star for Markkanen. Potential assets/salaries to trade: Sexton, Collins, future picks, Kessler

Kings-- If they underperform missing the playoffs or struggling in the play-in, they could get desperate to get Fox/Sabonis another real creator. Murray would be the dream return for Pelicans, butKings probably only would offer Huerter + Barnes and future picks.

Rockets-- They want to make another leap into serious playoff contention. Amen/Sengun/Whitmore look like the true keepers, and Green's value isn't great now. Jabari Smith would be the ideal centerpiece return for Pelicans, but Rockets probably decline that. The top-10 '24 Nets pick and future Nets pick could be in play.

Blazers-- Could look to add a youngish prime semi-star to lift their young core. top-5 draft pick as centerpiece, with Brogdon/RWIII as matching salary? Grant doesn't make sense for Pels as return and Blazers would probably want to keep him to pair with Ingram. Scoot probably still off-limits, even with the early struggles. Ayton not valuable, and Simons could be interesting, but awkward with the repeated overlap with McCullom.

Thoughts? *(high-quality responses only)*

Zero interest from POR.

POR needs to find their best player in the draft or trading for one on a rookie contract. Trading assets for an often inured fringe all star is a bad move for a rebuilding team.

[HadAnEffectHere]

The best Utah can do is probably

Utah gets: Brandon Ingram
NOP gets: Taylor Hendricks, Walker Kessler, ~25m in cap relief
Detroit gets: John Collins, 28th pick

Don't think the Jazz would be willing to offer much more than this as they have to give Ingram a five year max after this year.

And they probably only do this if they can trade Keyonte George and their picks for a star PG.

[louc1970]

Houston makes some sense from a Ingram. What goes back to NOP other than the Nets picks? Green is obvious, and maybe Landale and Adams for salary?
Spurs could offer Johnson and Graham plus a 24 and 25 FRP.

[NYG]

Pistons- tired of being bad, could offer one of Ivey or thier '24 top-5 pick, plus Stewart

He is an expiring. I'd pass. He is a good fit tho, too bad his contract situation and to a lesser extent his injuries make this a no go, that's the kind of player Detroit should be targetting with either Ivey and the pick.

Brooklyn feels like a good match for me. They could offer win now veteran talent (I don't see New Orleans trading Ingram for picks as they're trying to compete now).

Cam Johnson, DFS, Clowney and '29 Mavs 1st for Ingram and Nance Jr.?

Expand this to...

Cam and '29 Mavs 1st to Detroit
Ivey, DFS and Clowney to New Orleans
Ingram and Nance Jr. to Brooklyn

[MKWB]

Some nice responses here, y'all. Let me respond to some here:

This will probably not be a high quality response, so feel free to ignore

Philly should be interested. Philly S&Ts T.Harris, with an assortment of future picks (not this years as S&T has to be done after draft). We have a number of oddly protected (or unprotected) picks that could be available. I like the idea of Ingram… however his warts seem very similar to Harris’

NO gets a get that can help them to stay competitive, while hoping that a pick lands them a gem down the road (or they reshuffle the picks and salary for another upgrade)

High quality, fasho! Yea I really just said that to ward off the annoying low-effort one-liners, like: "Team X would never give that for Player ___. That's so crazy..."

The Philly option-- personally I would be interested in that with the picks being valuable chips to later use in trades. But realistically, David Griffin and co. would want a "win-now" type veteran players or highly touted rookie, someone tangible. They value Ingram as such a hard-worker who is about all the right things, a true small-market star (which is why he probably won't even be traded), so the PR and team direction factor wouldn't allow them to do a picks-based value trade.

Ingram’s extension would be limited if it’s part of a trade. Is he agreeing to a deal worth less than a 25% max? Because that’s what he’d be limited to in this example.. Once he’s been on his new team for 6 months, he can extend to his max.. But that means a team keeping him as an expiring through half the season..

Ingram on a 25% max is a completely different valuation than Ingram on an expiring chasing a 30% max.. Same as Pascal and most second tier stars, that’s a big impact on trade value.

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing that out. Although I do wonder, with the coming new CBA cap-crunch with aprons, would Ingram's agent go for the 25% max in a good situation? Maybe staying in his comfort zone in New Orleans would have him consider that, but with a new team it would be more complicated. Kind of like how Pascal's discussions about his Pacers chance of re-signing him went through him and Nembhard's agent, I think that could happen with Brooklyn since Bridges and him are both with Excel Sports.

Brooklyn feels like a good match for me. They could offer win now veteran talent (I don't see New Orleans trading Ingram for picks as they're trying to compete now).

Cam Johnson, DFS, Clowney and '29 Mavs 1st for Ingram and Nance Jr.?

That's the one that sticks out to me, too. Think Pels would push for more at least 2 of their good 1sts, and maybe DFS and Nance left out the deal since Pels already have young wings that need minutes.

For those saying Jazz-- yea seems like Aigne only goes for top-tier stars or bottoming out draft future star prospects.

[NYG]

Some nice responses here, y'all. Let me respond to some here:

This will probably not be a high quality response, so feel free to ignore

Philly should be interested. Philly S&Ts T.Harris, with an assortment of future picks (not this years as S&T has to be done after draft). We have a number of oddly protected (or unprotected) picks that could be available. I like the idea of Ingram… however his warts seem very similar to Harris’

NO gets a get that can help them to stay competitive, while hoping that a pick lands them a gem down the road (or they reshuffle the picks and salary for another upgrade)

High quality, fasho! Yea I really just said that to ward off the annoying low-effort one-liners, like: "Team X would never give that for Player ___. That's so crazy..."

The Philly option-- personally I would be interested in that with the picks being valuable chips to later use in trades. But realistically, David Griffin and co. would want a "win-now" type veteran players or highly touted rookie, someone tangible. They value Ingram as such a hard-worker who is about all the right things, a true small-market star (which is why he probably won't even be traded), so the PR and team direction factor wouldn't allow them to do a picks-based value trade.

Ingram’s extension would be limited if it’s part of a trade. Is he agreeing to a deal worth less than a 25% max? Because that’s what he’d be limited to in this example.. Once he’s been on his new team for 6 months, he can extend to his max.. But that means a team keeping him as an expiring through half the season..

Ingram on a 25% max is a completely different valuation than Ingram on an expiring chasing a 30% max.. Same as Pascal and most second tier stars, that’s a big impact on trade value.

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing that out. Although I do wonder, with the coming new CBA cap-crunch with aprons, would Ingram's agent go for the 25% max in a good situation? Maybe staying in his comfort zone in New Orleans would have him consider that, but with a new team it would be more complicated. Kind of like how Pascal's discussions about his Pacers chance of re-signing him went through him and Nembhard's agent, I think that could happen with Brooklyn since Bridges and him are both with Excel Sports.

Brooklyn feels like a good match for me. They could offer win now veteran talent (I don't see New Orleans trading Ingram for picks as they're trying to compete now).

Cam Johnson, DFS, Clowney and '29 Mavs 1st for Ingram and Nance Jr.?

That's the one that sticks out to me, too. Think Pels would push for more at least 2 of their good 1sts, and maybe DFS and Nance left out the deal since Pels already have young wings that need minutes.

For those saying Jazz-- yea seems like Aigne only goes for top-tier stars or bottoming out draft future star prospects.

I would also add that the Pelicans are 5th in the West so even if the fit is bad... good teams usually don't trade talent unless they request out so I wouldn't be surprised if they just roll with Zion and Ingram if they couldn't get an equally talented/better fitting veteran for Ingram 1-for-1.

[MKWB]

Hornets, Spurs, and even the Raptors possibly. Would have to be 3-team deals if the Pels want to compete.

I still like the Pels trying to get Trae for Ingram/Daniels/1-2 1sts.

Lakers would be interested, but I'm guessing their best assets would have to be sent to a 3rd team (Reaves, JHS, 2-3 1sts, swaps)

Hornets I could see. Hard to see Spurs since Griffin wouldn't want to trade BI in division to face them 4 times, and create a potential new division/Western rival powerhouse with Wemby. Hard to find 3rd teams now that would offer good players for future picks, but that definitely could change in the offseason. So unless Spurs offer Vassell and/or their top-pick, I don't see that one. And doesn't seem like a Spursian move.

Raptors? Hmmm, seems redundant with Barnes and Barrett, right? And don't see Pels wanting Barrett as the return centerpiece.

Trae Young is super interesting, actually. If he and Klutch are open to joining Pelicans and Zion, could make a fun top offensive duo (and bottom defensive one? lol). But would Hawks want Ingram? Guess he would make sense combined with Murray, or if Hawks go full rebuild, send Ingram to Nets with Simmons and many 1sts to Hawks.

[MKWB]

I would also add that the Pelicans are 5th in the West so even if the fit is bad... good teams usually don't trade talent unless they request out so I wouldn't be surprised if they just roll with Zion and Ingram if they couldn't get an equally talented/better fitting veteran for Ingram 1-for-1.

For sure, the most likely option always is teams keeping their players. They're 5th now, but they could slide to play-in range with just a few games. But yea, most teams just run it back even with a playoff dud (Cavs last year), and just make smaller changes around the "stars." If only Ingram or Zion could take and make more 3's and play better defense.

Side note-- Trey Murphy III has had a major down season after his offseason injury/surgery. What once seemed like an automatic rookie max extension looks more like it will be pushed back to let him go to RFA in 2025 and negotiate a more reasonable contract number. That could lessen the urgency to break up the Z/BI duo. But it's frustrating to see their top 2 players not fit well together at all and not shift to moving one of them for better fits.