PG; Raptors outlast Hawks

[Thaddy]

Can’t disagree more with this post. Barnes, RJ and Quickley have already played in a full playoff series, so how does 1 play in game help? If we make the play in Dick probably doesn’t even play. As for our assets, who? Brown? The guy who helped Denver win a title last year? Do you think teams still have questions about him they need answered from a single play in game? Same with Poeltl, who has already played in the playoffs multiple times.

This idea that a single play in game somehow great playoff experience is bunk. Getting one play in games worth is experience doesn’t change the fortunes of this team at all.

They could potentially win and get into the playoffs. That would lead to a series against either the Celtics or Cavs. If the Raptors take them to 6/7 games it would be a successful development season. Barnes and the others are playing in larger roles than they are accustomed to. It would mean next year we'd be looking to get into the 2nd round and be a top 6 team in the conference. I doubt we could go from lottery to top 6. There needs to be a season in the middle.

don't be expecting these things lol

If we are in the play in, make the first round, and then give the first run a good run. What would be progression?

The thought would be to improve from that, give IQ, Barrett, Barnes, and others a full training camp. We could consolidate Brown, Boucher, and picks into another buy low piece too.

Regardless of how we do top 6 and 2nd round should be the goal in the third season of this core if not next.

[ConSarnit]

Making the play in and getting experience and potentially winning a high stakes game is a valuable experience for guys like Barnes, Dick, IQ Barrett, and several of our future pieces. It draws national attention and narrative which would mean increased trade value for our assets.

Can’t disagree more with this post.

You want to see disagreement?

Barnes, RJ and Quickley have already played in a full playoff series, so how does 1 play in game help?

But not together. And:

- Barnes was hurt through most of the Sixers series by an ... unfortunate accident.
- Quickley is playing an entirely new role, which will result in him facing different types of defences and having to make the right reads. He didn't fare well in his first playoff stint on the Knicks.
- RJ is in an new role, and is playing like a new player. Can he get calls in the playoffs?

And it won't be one just playoff game if we win.

If we make the play in Dick probably doesn’t even play.

You have absolutely no basis for saying that. You just pulled that out of your ass.

As for our assets, who? Brown? The guy who helped Denver win a title last year? Do you think teams still have questions about him they need answered from a single play in game?

Anybody looks good playing with Jokic. What does Brown look like in another context - that's what teams want to know. Recency bias is a thing. You don't think playing in March Madness helps the draft stock of US collegians.

Maybe a contender will want Trent in a sign and trade. Or Boucher on an expiring - if we let him play.

And it won't be one just playoff game if we win.

This idea that a single play in game somehow great playoff experience is bunk. Getting one play in games worth is experience doesn’t change the fortunes of this team at all.

Finally, it won't be one just playoff game if we win.

Thaddy’s original contention was we might win a play-in game. If they had said “there’s value in winning 2 play-in games and getting a full playoff series” I’d be more inclined to agree. I’m disputing the idea that being the underdog in 1 play in game has any significant value as far as the future of this team goes. Im trying it look at it from a realistic perspective, not some idealized world where a team that is currently 15 games under .500 somehow wins 2 play in games and then somehow wins 2 games against the 1 seed Celtics (who are probably title favorites).

As for Dick: what are the odds he plays any type of role if we make the play in? Minutes get extremely tight in 1-off games and he’s a prime candidate (rookie with defensive issues) to get squeezed out of the rotation altogether.

As for increasing vet value: I would also argue that putting Brown in a playoff game without Jokic stands to hurt his value more than help (shooting 32% from 3 without Jokic this year). Trent went 1-7 in last years play-in game. The PHI series he got killed defensively. There is an equal chance the play-in/playoffs hurts these guys trade value as it might help them.

Overall, if we want to talk full playoff series, then sure, getting guys reps could help. In a 1-off game that we aren’t favored to win I don’t believe it moves the needle.

[Thaddy]

Can’t disagree more with this post.

You want to see disagreement?

Barnes, RJ and Quickley have already played in a full playoff series, so how does 1 play in game help?

But not together. And:

- Barnes was hurt through most of the Sixers series by an ... unfortunate accident.
- Quickley is playing an entirely new role, which will result in him facing different types of defences and having to make the right reads. He didn't fare well in his first playoff stint on the Knicks.
- RJ is in an new role, and is playing like a new player. Can he get calls in the playoffs?

And it won't be one just playoff game if we win.

If we make the play in Dick probably doesn’t even play.

You have absolutely no basis for saying that. You just pulled that out of your ass.

As for our assets, who? Brown? The guy who helped Denver win a title last year? Do you think teams still have questions about him they need answered from a single play in game?

Anybody looks good playing with Jokic. What does Brown look like in another context - that's what teams want to know. Recency bias is a thing. You don't think playing in March Madness helps the draft stock of US collegians.

Maybe a contender will want Trent in a sign and trade. Or Boucher on an expiring - if we let him play.

And it won't be one just playoff game if we win.

This idea that a single play in game somehow great playoff experience is bunk. Getting one play in games worth is experience doesn’t change the fortunes of this team at all.

Finally, it won't be one just playoff game if we win.

Thaddy’s original contention was we might win a play-in game. If they had said “there’s value in winning 2 play-in games and getting a full playoff series” I’d be more inclined to agree. I’m disputing the idea that being the underdog in 1 play in game has any significant value as far as the future of this team goes. Im trying it look at it from a realistic perspective, not some idealized world where a team that is currently 15 games under .500 somehow wins 2 play in games and then somehow wins 2 games against the 1 seed Celtics (who are probably title favorites).

As for Dick: what are the odds he plays any type of role if we make the play in? Minutes get extremely tight in 1-off games and he’s a prime candidate (rookie with defensive issues) to get squeezed out of the rotation altogether.

As for increasing vet value: I would also argue that putting Brown in a playoff game without Jokic stands to hurt his value more than help (shooting 32% from 3 without Jokic this year). Trent went 1-7 in last years play-in game. The PHI series he got killed defensively. There is an equal chance the play-in/playoffs hurts these guys trade value as it might help them.

Overall, if we want to talk full playoff series, then sure, getting guys reps could help. In a 1-off game that we aren’t favored to win I don’t believe it moves the needle.

The first game would be against the Bulls. We wouldn't have to deal with Siakam, Fred, and OG being choke artists and getting phased by a teenage girl. That was the nail in the coffin for those guys, they went out of Toronto as complete clowns. I'm surprised that isn't brought up more often by other fanbases. I can't even call them a core they were more like a trio trying to gatekeep opportunity.

The second game would be against the Heat or Magic. We match up pretty well against both teams and would have the best player between both rosters. After another month of playing together I could see us having a better bench lineup and the shooting to out gun them in a single game elimination game.

Hypothetically, winning these two games would be great for team cohesion and confidence. We would walk into a Celtics series firing on all cylinders and although we'd most likely lose it would let mangement know what they are missing and who is a keeper and who isn't.

[ArthurVandelay]

Might as well push for the playoffs, get the pick monkey off the teams back. Low key tank next year and move on.

What does "low key tank" look like next year? We have a lot of players who should get better next year, 4 of them are starters + Dick.

Don't resign Trent, don't pick up option for Brown and replace them with rookies? I just don't see this front office taking a step back willingly.

I’m thinking Gary leaves, which will hurt spacing and shooting. RJ is RJ at this point I think (great player but clear flaws), it all depends on Scottie, Gradey, and IQ imo.

If Scottie takes another step and IQ becomes a better point guard and or shot creater with teams game planning for him. I think the team is probably a playin or low playoff seed.

Ideally I would go young, trade Poeltl for whatever you can. Lean into Gradey’s growth and play him 30 plus minutes even with his flaws. That way you not only get them development but also they lose a few extra games than they would otherwise and get a top 8 pick. But Masai and Bobby have been delusional about growth the past 3-4 years so I doubt they do it.

I don't think Gary is difficult to replace.

Guys who are putting up his numbers or better were had for minimum deals last year in Beasley and Walker IV.

Over the past few seasons we've seen Strus and Robinson brought along on minimum deals, only to later get paid.

Then there are guys like Kennard and Burks who are making around MLE money who are similar to Gary.

DiVincenzo is a better player and made tax-payer MLE last year and now making full MLE with Knicks.

Basically any contract for Trent that is over MLE money is going to be viewed bad within a season imo. I think you can find a player much cheaper, or better yet, turn his role over to Dick next season.

[Duffman100]

Might as well push for the playoffs, get the pick monkey off the teams back. Low key tank next year and move on.

What does "low key tank" look like next year? We have a lot of players who should get better next year, 4 of them are starters + Dick.

Don't resign Trent, don't pick up option for Brown and replace them with rookies? I just don't see this front office taking a step back willingly.

I’m thinking Gary leaves, which will hurt spacing and shooting. RJ is RJ at this point I think (great player but clear flaws), it all depends on Scottie, Gradey, and IQ imo.

If Scottie takes another step and IQ becomes a better point guard and or shot creater with teams game planning for him. I think the team is probably a playin or low playoff seed.

Ideally I would go young, trade Poeltl for whatever you can. Lean into Gradey’s growth and play him 30 plus minutes even with his flaws. That way you not only get them development but also they lose a few extra games than they would otherwise and get a top 8 pick. But Masai and Bobby have been delusional about growth the past 3-4 years so I doubt they do it.

To me, guys like Poeltl and KO are key to our young player development for two reasons,

Passing
Screening

Both are well above average in both.

Dick needs good screens and good passes to get good lucks. Otherwise, you stick a 21 year old center who can't do either yet and you're left with Scottie trying to find players with nice passes and nobody is open.

[720]

What does "low key tank" look like next year? We have a lot of players who should get better next year, 4 of them are starters + Dick.

Don't resign Trent, don't pick up option for Brown and replace them with rookies? I just don't see this front office taking a step back willingly.

I’m thinking Gary leaves, which will hurt spacing and shooting. RJ is RJ at this point I think (great player but clear flaws), it all depends on Scottie, Gradey, and IQ imo.

If Scottie takes another step and IQ becomes a better point guard and or shot creater with teams game planning for him. I think the team is probably a playin or low playoff seed.

Ideally I would go young, trade Poeltl for whatever you can. Lean into Gradey’s growth and play him 30 plus minutes even with his flaws. That way you not only get them development but also they lose a few extra games than they would otherwise and get a top 8 pick. But Masai and Bobby have been delusional about growth the past 3-4 years so I doubt they do it.

To me, guys like Poeltl and KO are key to our young player development for two reasons,

Passing
Screening

Both are well above average in both.

Dick needs good screens and good passes to get good lucks. Otherwise, you stick a 21 year old center who can't do either yet and you're left with Scottie trying to find players with nice passes and nobody is open.

We can still get screen setters for cheap, even if we don’t I don’t see it as a big deal, it’ll force Dick to create his own offense and develop other parts of his offensive game.

Young guys have to make do with what they have and it’s a good thing because the good ones will develop other parts of their game to compensate.

[Duffman100]

I’m thinking Gary leaves, which will hurt spacing and shooting. RJ is RJ at this point I think (great player but clear flaws), it all depends on Scottie, Gradey, and IQ imo.

If Scottie takes another step and IQ becomes a better point guard and or shot creater with teams game planning for him. I think the team is probably a playin or low playoff seed.

Ideally I would go young, trade Poeltl for whatever you can. Lean into Gradey’s growth and play him 30 plus minutes even with his flaws. That way you not only get them development but also they lose a few extra games than they would otherwise and get a top 8 pick. But Masai and Bobby have been delusional about growth the past 3-4 years so I doubt they do it.

To me, guys like Poeltl and KO are key to our young player development for two reasons,

Passing
Screening

Both are well above average in both.

Dick needs good screens and good passes to get good lucks. Otherwise, you stick a 21 year old center who can't do either yet and you're left with Scottie trying to find players with nice passes and nobody is open.

We can still get screen setters for cheap, even if we don’t I don’t see it as a big deal, it’ll force Dick to create his own offense and develop other parts of his offensive game.

Young guys have to make do with what they have and it’s a good thing because the good ones will develop other parts of their game to compensate.

Fair, I see it differently as I don't think cheap screen setters that are good passers are readily available. And I think the development of players can be rostered in a different way.

[720]

To me, guys like Poeltl and KO are key to our young player development for two reasons,

Passing
Screening

Both are well above average in both.

Dick needs good screens and good passes to get good lucks. Otherwise, you stick a 21 year old center who can't do either yet and you're left with Scottie trying to find players with nice passes and nobody is open.

We can still get screen setters for cheap, even if we don’t I don’t see it as a big deal, it’ll force Dick to create his own offense and develop other parts of his offensive game.

Young guys have to make do with what they have and it’s a good thing because the good ones will develop other parts of their game to compensate.

Fair, I see it differently as I don't think cheap screen setters that are good passers are readily available. And I think the development of players can be rostered in a different way.

Jakob’s skill set is very unique and I understand his value. But IF they push for development I personally would trade him next year when he still has some value and where we’re not necessarily prioritizing playoffs.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

They could potentially win and get into the playoffs. That would lead to a series against either the Celtics or Cavs. If the Raptors take them to 6/7 games it would be a successful development season. Barnes and the others are playing in larger roles than they are accustomed to. It would mean next year we'd be looking to get into the 2nd round and be a top 6 team in the conference. I doubt we could go from lottery to top 6. There needs to be a season in the middle.

don't be expecting these things lol

If we are in the play in, make the first round, and then give the first run a good run. What would be progression?

The thought would be to improve from that, give IQ, Barrett, Barnes, and others a full training camp. We could consolidate Brown, Boucher, and picks into another buy low piece too.

Regardless of how we do top 6 and 2nd round should be the goal in the third season of this core if not next.

they ciould still be play-in next year as well. depends on the free agents they sign and fill out the bench