Wisconsin Badgers Thread

[Kerb Hohl]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

Crowl has gotten 10000000% better. Plenty of guys improve.

But in the end, he is a slow-footed/mostly below the rim guy.

This is the problem. We can’t do what we used to in both sports. They are entirely different sports than they were a decade ago.

[midranger]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

This is the most concerning thing imo.

Chucky, Wahl, Crowl have seen minimal growth (if at all) for sophomores to junior/seniors. Like are any of them substantially better than they were 2.5 years ago?

Need that strong developmental process if this is the caliber of recruit coming in

[Kerb Hohl]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

This is the most concerning thing imo.

Chucky, Wahl, Crowl have seen minimal growth (if at all) for sophomores to junior/seniors. Like are any of them substantially better than they were 2.5 years ago?

Need that strong developmental process if this is the caliber of recruit coming in

We must not be watching the same games. Crowl is ridiculously better than 2-3 years ago.

But this is the max. Similarly, Brad Davison improved a little bit…but he still is relatively slow with a 5 inch vertical. You can only go so far.

Crowl is taking better shots and looks “tougher” in the post, even on defense. But he’s still going to get abused by guys like Ware, especially with the new rules.

This used to be enough, but developing guys vs other teams gambling on high-end recruits and filling in the failures with transfers…you lose that battle.

[MikeIsGood]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

This is the most concerning thing imo.

Chucky, Wahl, Crowl have seen minimal growth (if at all) for sophomores to junior/seniors. Like are any of them substantially better than they were 2.5 years ago?

Need that strong developmental process if this is the caliber of recruit coming in

We must not be watching the same games. Crowl is ridiculously better than 2-3 years ago.

But this is the max. Similarly, Brad Davison improved a little bit…but he still is relatively slow with a 5 inch vertical. You can only go so far.

Crowl is taking better shots and looks “tougher” in the post, even on defense. But he’s still going to get abused by guys like Ware, especially with the new rules.

This used to be enough, but developing guys vs other teams gambling on high-end recruits and filling in the failures with transfers…you lose that battle.

My guy, what.

ETA: I'm totally ignoring the rest. This is all my vendetta against Davison.

[Kerb Hohl]

This is the most concerning thing imo.

Chucky, Wahl, Crowl have seen minimal growth (if at all) for sophomores to junior/seniors. Like are any of them substantially better than they were 2.5 years ago?

Need that strong developmental process if this is the caliber of recruit coming in

We must not be watching the same games. Crowl is ridiculously better than 2-3 years ago.

But this is the max. Similarly, Brad Davison improved a little bit…but he still is relatively slow with a 5 inch vertical. You can only go so far.

Crowl is taking better shots and looks “tougher” in the post, even on defense. But he’s still going to get abused by guys like Ware, especially with the new rules.

This used to be enough, but developing guys vs other teams gambling on high-end recruits and filling in the failures with transfers…you lose that battle.

My guy, what.

ETA: I'm totally ignoring the rest. This is all my vendetta against Davison.

The point is that these teams are built with a bunch of guys with ridiculously low ceilings and/or are limited enough to not succeed in the modern game.

[midranger]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

This is the most concerning thing imo.

Chucky, Wahl, Crowl have seen minimal growth (if at all) for sophomores to junior/seniors. Like are any of them substantially better than they were 2.5 years ago?

Need that strong developmental process if this is the caliber of recruit coming in

We must not be watching the same games. Crowl is ridiculously better than 2-3 years ago.

But this is the max. Similarly, Brad Davison improved a little bit…but he still is relatively slow with a 5 inch vertical. You can only go so far.

Crowl is taking better shots and looks “tougher” in the post, even on defense. But he’s still going to get abused by guys like Ware, especially with the new rules.

This used to be enough, but developing guys vs other teams gambling on high-end recruits and filling in the failures with transfers…you lose that battle.

Meh, we must be. He’s still a weakling in the post and makes any athletic big look like Amare Stoudemire. He rebounds a bit better and can hit the three (but doesn’t shoot nearly enough). That’s the difference from sophomore to senior Crowl. Still prone to outright awful/disappearing games.

The other two? Uh… same to worse?

Their defense has certainly regressed.

Maybe I’m missing the improvements Essegian, Gilmore, Ilver, McGee, Hodges and Lindsey have made in the program.

[Kerb Hohl]

This is the most concerning thing imo.

Chucky, Wahl, Crowl have seen minimal growth (if at all) for sophomores to junior/seniors. Like are any of them substantially better than they were 2.5 years ago?

Need that strong developmental process if this is the caliber of recruit coming in

We must not be watching the same games. Crowl is ridiculously better than 2-3 years ago.

But this is the max. Similarly, Brad Davison improved a little bit…but he still is relatively slow with a 5 inch vertical. You can only go so far.

Crowl is taking better shots and looks “tougher” in the post, even on defense. But he’s still going to get abused by guys like Ware, especially with the new rules.

This used to be enough, but developing guys vs other teams gambling on high-end recruits and filling in the failures with transfers…you lose that battle.

Meh, we must be. He’s still a weakling in the post and makes any athletic big look like Amare Stoudemire. He rebounds a bit better and can hit the three (but doesn’t shoot nearly enough). That’s the difference from sophomore to senior Crowl. Still prone to outright awful/disappearing games.

The other two? Uh… same to worse?

Their defense has certainly regressed

Imo the defense has regressed mostly due to the rule changes. The game is called tighter and you can’t just get in front of guys anymore since the charge is basically gone. Crowl simply has no chance.

Chucky just doesn’t have the strength of someone like Jordan Taylor or Hughes. Wahl takes better shots but again - his game is limited.

In the end it’s the same argument - I’m just saying these guys have no chance. Maybe Bo Ryan, a HOF guy, squeezes a little bit more out of a few of them…but I just think this is close the best Crowl can ever be.

The bottom scrubs you added to the list - again, there are plenty of guys that are destined to be role players (McGee) or are scrubs (Hodges = Gavinski)…the difference is taking so many low-ceiling guys really burns them in this era.

[Kerb Hohl]

As for Essegian…I’m not sure how much coaches can really develop shooting…but that’s it with him. He can’t shoot very well anymore. The rest of his game is destined to be below average. So he’s useless. Not sure if that’s on Gard, but that’s another net loss for taking a one trick pony that can’t even succeed at his one trick.

[midranger]

I think it’s more than fair to point out that Gard has recruited all these “No upside” guys.

I don’t care who is coaching, but taking low ceiling guys and not developing them at a high rate is a really bad recipe even if you’re an elite tactician (which I don’t think Gard is. Really good, but not great).

[Kerb Hohl]

I think it’s more than fair to point out that Gard has recruited all these “No upside” guys.

I don’t care who is coaching, but taking low ceiling guys and not developing them at a high rate is a really bad recipe even if you’re an elite tactician (which I don’t think Gard is. Really good, but not great).

100%. I agree and the entire argument I’m making. The players he has just won’t cut it in this era, on top of him getting a generally lower-upside batch.

[Diggr14]

I think it’s more than fair to point out that Gard has recruited all these “No upside” guys.

I don’t care who is coaching, but taking low ceiling guys and not developing them at a high rate is a really bad recipe even if you’re an elite tactician (which I don’t think Gard is. Really good, but not great).

100%. I agree and the entire argument I’m making. The players he has just won’t cut it in this era, on top of him getting a generally lower-upside batch.

I dont think this is true. Hepburn had plenty of upside. He hasn't improved athletically and his shot is about the same. I think his first year if you would have told me he would be much worse than Jordan Taylor was for UW, I would have thought you were drunk.

Fairly, Johnny Davis did get much better under Gard. He was the most overhyped player we have ever had. That 15-20 game run he had was godlike. Then he came back to earth and has been there ever since, even in the pros.

[ReasonablySober]

The Davis slander here lately is total crap. Overhyped? GTFOH. He faded in his final few games but that kid was a legit star and a worthy POTY.

[Kerb Hohl]

I think it’s more than fair to point out that Gard has recruited all these “No upside” guys.

I don’t care who is coaching, but taking low ceiling guys and not developing them at a high rate is a really bad recipe even if you’re an elite tactician (which I don’t think Gard is. Really good, but not great).

100%. I agree and the entire argument I’m making. The players he has just won’t cut it in this era, on top of him getting a generally lower-upside batch.

I dont think this is true. Hepburn had plenty of upside. He hasn't improved athletically and his shot is about the same. I think his first year if you would have told me he would be much worse than Jordan Taylor was for UW, I would have thought you were drunk.

Fairly, Johnny Davis did get much better under Gard. He was the most overhyped player we have ever had. That 15-20 game run he had was godlike. Then he came back to earth and has been there ever since, even in the pros.

Yeah, Hepburn I don’t know. Is he just a guy that doesn’t have the size/frame to attack the basket like Taylor or is it lack of development? That’s what’s missing from his game, big time.

[chonestown]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

OK, that's ridiculous.

What I do find puzzling is the plateauing and regression of cornerstone upperclassmen, Reuvers being the most prominent example.

This year looks like an outright collapse, so yeah, do a deep re-examination. I don't see anybody on staff fit to take over, so it truly would be a new direction if there's a change. I don't know, continuity's worked pretty good here. Not enthused about becoming Minnesota East.

[MikeIsGood]

The Davis slander here lately is total crap. Overhyped? GTFOH. He faded in his final few games but that kid was a legit star and a worthy POTY.

None of that has anything to do with him being a good NBA player, though, which is where the discussion has been. Because he sucks, and has been entirely outshined by Murray, who I think most knew was the actual NBA player of the two because he could actually shoot.

The fates of those two will always linked because of the narratives that season.

[Mags FTW]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

OK, that's ridiculous.

Only 1 of his players has been drafted since he took over (Davis), who was an NBA talent when he came in. He hasn't been able to even coach anyone up to be picked in the 2nd round.

Indiana has 5 players drafted since Gard took over. Purdue has 5. Nebraska has 3. Maryland has 7. Penn State has 3.

He either can't get players to improve or he can't recruit. Pick your poison.

[Kerb Hohl]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

OK, that's ridiculous.

What I do find puzzling is the plateauing and regression of cornerstone upperclassmen, Reuvers being the most prominent example.

This year looks like an outright collapse, so yeah, do a deep re-examination. I don't see anybody on staff fit to take over, so it truly would be a new direction if there's a change. I don't know, continuity's worked pretty good here. Not enthused about becoming Minnesota East.

I've long made fun of Minnesota's strategy on here, either as a, "this is what you can get if you stray from the continuity/development strategy" for a long time, or more recently, "Ben Johnson was a bad hire."

Minnesota has been way better than the Badgers over the past month or two. Some of that is due to randomness of their shooters knocking down shots, but I think it points to something.

The Buckyville crowd would make fun of a guy like Dawson Garcia because he was soft on defense and therefore overhyped. That used to be true. Guess what? This is a completely different game now. The guy has All-Conference skill on offense. Outside of maybe Storr, Wisconsin has nothing close to that. Start gambling on guys like that and teach the rest of the stuff. Fouls are more touchy, the portal is open, and you can't really play position defense anymore. Start focusing on skilled offensive players.

[Kerb Hohl]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

OK, that's ridiculous.

Only 1 of his players has been drafted since he took over (Davis), who was an NBA talent when he came in. He hasn't been able to even coach anyone up to be picked in the 2nd round.

Indiana has 5 players drafted since Gard took over. Purdue has 5. Nebraska has 3. Maryland has 7. Penn State has 3.

He either can't get players to improve or he can't recruit. Pick your poison.

Look, I want to agree with you guys and you are making a correct point that he can't recruit that well.

But this also makes a point in the opposite direction that all of these teams save Purdue are still worse off...so it's not all about this.

[emunney]

FWIW, I'd still happily rescue Johnny Davis from Washington.

[chonestown]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

OK, that's ridiculous.

Only 1 of his players has been drafted since he took over (Davis), who was an NBA talent when he came in. He hasn't been able to even coach anyone up to be picked in the 2nd round.

Indiana has 5 players drafted since Gard took over. Purdue has 5. Nebraska has 3. Maryland has 7. Penn State has 3.

He either can't get players to improve or he can't recruit. Pick your poison.

Could not care less about NBA prospects. If that mattered, I'd be a Kentucky fan.

ETA: Johnny doing his best to prove he's not an NBA talent.