Gary Trent Jr. adapting to a defensive stopper role

[JB7]

It's time to move on from Gary. Everyone from Bobby Webster to posters on realgm need to stop trying to find execuses to like him. He wants to take an obscenely low amount of money to sit at the end of the bench and get 12-15 mins a night since he loves Toronto so much he can stay as some cheap depth.

We don’t get any free cap space from letting him walk, since we’ll be operating over the cap, assuming they pickup the Brown option.


So the natural move is to resign Gary at a reasonable number that still allows him to become tradeable later. Asset retention.


If you’re smart, you already know how this will go: Trent/Klutch will seek a 2+1 deal which allows him to enter free agency at 27 and coincides with the new TV deal.


If I were to guess, it’s something close to his current salary

His market value is shot. Why do you think he opted in last summer?

We couldn’t find a good deal for him at the deadline so are kicking the can down the road. I think we’ll try to bring him back on a team friendly deal allowing him to bring his market value back up. It’s too bad because he isn’t very good. I prefer moving on.

Consider this: GTJ was also an expiring $19M in salary, going into an offseason where teams will be looking to clean up their books, and the Raps still didn't get any decent offers on him.

A team like the Magic or Spurs might offer him a deal, only because they have a lot of money to spend. But my guess is they look other places first, and he is the back-up, back-up, back-up option for them.

[Kingsway_fan]

Too little , too inconsistent... Dick is the future starter. Masai better not extend him.

[metafisical]

Is it a violation of the CBA if we only offer him the vet min in the off-season?

[2019nbachamps]

Is it a violation of the CBA if we only offer him the vet min in the off-season?

It doesn’t work that way. NBA salaries are based on your draft status and seniority.

[Blazing_royale]

He's a good piece off the bench, if he can't accept it and i doubt he will we should move on.

[bstein14]

He's going to buckle down on defense these next few months because he has a lot of money riding on it. My concern would be why did the effort on that end of the ball decline at times the past two seasons after being great when he was first traded to Toronto.

[youreachiteach]

To be fair to Gary, he wasn't the only one shirking responsibility or playing with one foot out the door. The team could have definitely put everyone in a better position before the trade deadline so that the collection of players had a more solidified role on the team. Everyone's talking about the vibes now, but that's because the maelstrom has subsided. There are no more questions about who is going to be here, no playing of players simply to improve their value, no looking at each other to see whose next--and they have their center back (sigh!--he should be back soon). The young players feel they are respected and have a place, and the vets want to make the playoffs.

You can even start to see Darko starting to hold players (like Gary) more accountable--there are benchings and playing time now given on merit before all else. He can do that because all the players know THIS is the team and THIS is what they are building. It also helps that he's a free agent, sure--although that hasn't helped Bruce Brown much.

[brownbobcat]

Is it a violation of the CBA if we only offer him the vet min in the off-season?

It doesn’t work that way. NBA salaries are based on your draft status and seniority.

The vet min does scale by seniority, but there's nothing preventing Toronto from offering him that if they renounced his Bird rights. Of course he wouldn't take it.

[onions17]

Trae Young also played that game with a torn ligament in his finger

[ConSarnit]

Offer him the MLE. If he takes it, great. If not, oh well. He's a legit rotation player who can spot start if you need him to. My feeling is he gets ~$15m/yr from some team hard up for shooting that has a bunch of cap space (DET, ORL, etc).

[C_Money]

He's a good piece off the bench, if he can't accept it and i doubt he will we should move on.

He’s never once complained about coming off the bench.

[ontnut]

GTJ isn't big, quick, gritty, or strong enough to be a stopper. I find that guys who shy away from contact on the offensive end rarely are great defensively. It's a bit of a predictor in a way. Nearly the best defenders/stoppers in the league are guys who relish playing through contact, banging in the post, bumping guys on offense to create space, and/or getting more rebounds than their height suggests they should (Think Smart, Lowry, Caruso, JJJ, Ibaka, OG, etc). GTJ is none of those things, as he tends to play more in the catch and shoot, pull up game. That gives insight into how he himself feels about his athletic ability and strength.

He can become "not a pylon", but hoping he'll turn into an actual on ball defender seems like very wishful thinking. He's just not built mentally or physically for that role.

[djsunyc]

Offer him the MLE. If he takes it, great. If not, oh well. He's a legit rotation player who can spot start if you need him to. My feeling is he gets ~$15m/yr from some team hard up for shooting that has a bunch of cap space (DET, ORL, etc).

you can't low ball players - that won't look good in the eyes of agents. if you value him over the space under luxury, then offer him a fair deal. if there's other things you'd rather do then relinquish his cap hold and he can go wherever he wants.

i think if we relinquish all bird's rights, don't pick up brown's option and just keep iq's hold, we have around $40 mil in space. ko will probably eat up around $10-11 mil of that which allows us to use $25-30 mil on player(s) and then re-sign quickley. a portion of that could go to gary.

we still need a roster of 10 quality nba players. gary may not be great but he's still a quality nba player. so keeping him is not a bad idea at fair market value - which should probably be around his current deal (18-20 mil). we can offer him a 2+1 or something like that.

it's tough to find players in the free agent market that's as good as him and willing to come here. maybe we can trade for one but i don't see many options either.

[tecumseh18]

Trae Young also played that game with a torn ligament in his finger

No, it's pretty clear Trae tore it in the last couple of minutes of the game on a fluke play. I saw a clip of when it must have happened. Didn't stop him from hitting that last 3 at the buzzer.

[tecumseh18]

We don’t get any free cap space from letting him walk, since we’ll be operating over the cap, assuming they pickup the Brown option.

If we're operating over the cap this summer, then why give away Dennis for nothing? If Raptors' can't use Brown's salary in a deal at the draft, he's not being picked up. It would be insane to pay him 23 mill next season. And so tempting to take advantage of IQ's low cap hold. Also, by extending or resigning Kelly O. for a modest number, we'll eliminate his 18 mill cap hold.

We'll have space to offer Malik Monk or whoever a fair deal.

If I were to guess, it’s something close to his current salary

Seth Curry is making 4 mill per year. How much more is Gary worth than that?

[ConSarnit]

Offer him the MLE. If he takes it, great. If not, oh well. He's a legit rotation player who can spot start if you need him to. My feeling is he gets ~$15m/yr from some team hard up for shooting that has a bunch of cap space (DET, ORL, etc).

you can't low ball players - that won't look good in the eyes of agents. if you value him over the space under luxury, then offer him a fair deal. if there's other things you'd rather do then relinquish his cap hold and he can go wherever he wants.

i think if we relinquish all bird's rights, don't pick up brown's option and just keep iq's hold, we have around $40 mil in space. ko will probably eat up around $10-11 mil of that which allows us to use $25-30 mil on player(s) and then re-sign quickley. a portion of that could go to gary.

we still need a roster of 10 quality nba players. gary may not be great but he's still a quality nba player. so keeping him is not a bad idea at fair market value - which should probably be around his current deal (18-20 mil). we can offer him a 2+1 or something like that.

it's tough to find players in the free agent market that's as good as him and willing to come here. maybe we can trade for one but i don't see many options either.

Why would we waive Brown? That seems like a tremendous waste of a guy (who in theory) should be wanted by multiple teams. Who are we going to use that money he frees up on?

How is $18-20m Trent’s fair market value? He had to pick up his option this year because he had no market, at least not anywhere near what he’s currently making. I can’t see how Trent has done anything to improve his value in the eyes of the league. He’s made no strides offensively and his defense has probably slipped from when he first got here. We paid him $18m partially due to upside. That upside is gone. If we’re going to keep Trent it has to make sense for us too. He’s probably the most supplantable rotation guy (Dick, Agbaji or a top 6 pick could take his spot as soon as next year). If we keep him he needs to be on a deal that is a) fair for an 7th-8th man or b) tradable. Trent at $18m off the bench doesn’t make a lot of sense when he’s the guy most likely to get knocked down in the rotation.

[Johnny Bball]

Unless the know they can grab say Claxton and Grayson Allen, for 40 million, I fully expect they re-sign GTJ for somewhere around current 20 mil per, and they pick up the option on Brown. Because there is no point being under the cap if they can't use it on quality, then they might as well r-esign both and operate well above the cap up to the tax. Then they move Brown at the next deadline.

The MLE is somehwere like 13-14 million next season so I have no idea why anyone thinks they lowball Trent anywhere around there.

[Tom_Foolery]

I'm sorry, I just don't see the point.

[tecumseh18]

i think if we relinquish all bird's rights, don't pick up brown's option and just keep iq's hold, we have around $40 mil in space. ko will probably eat up around $10-11 mil of that which allows us to use $25-30 mil on player(s) and then re-sign quickley. a portion of that could go to gary.

we still need a roster of 10 quality nba players. gary may not be great but he's still a quality nba player. so keeping him is not a bad idea at fair market value - which should probably be around his current deal (18-20 mil). we can offer him a 2+1 or something like that.

it's tough to find players in the free agent market that's as good as him and willing to come here. maybe we can trade for one but i don't see many options either.

Why would we waive Brown? That seems like a tremendous waste of a guy (who in theory) should be wanted by multiple teams. Who are we going to use that money he frees up on?

Obviously we'd only do if a plan/deal is already in place. But I'm sure we can get more out of that 23 mill next season than blowing it on Bruce f'n Brown. Especially now that Ochai has emerged as our defensive stopper off the bench. Raptors are trying to win, sooner rather than later.

How is $18-20m Trent’s fair market value? He had to pick up his option this year because he had no market, at least not anywhere near what he’s currently making. I can’t see how Trent has done anything to improve his value in the eyes of the league. He’s made no strides offensively and his defense has probably slipped from when he first got here. We paid him $18m partially due to upside. That upside is gone. If we’re going to keep Trent it has to make sense for us too. He’s probably the most supplantable rotation guy (Dick, Agbaji or a top 6 pick could take his spot as soon as next year). If we keep him he needs to be on a deal that is a) fair for an 7th-8th man or b) tradable. Trent at $18m off the bench doesn’t make a lot of sense when he’s the guy most likely to get knocked down in the rotation.

100%. I guess I can reconcile myself to 14 mill on a 2+1, just above the MLE. But not if we can do better in free agency.

[WaltFrazier]

Doing a good job on Trae and Hali back to back says a lot. What's disappointing is that you can't put IQ on the best opposing guard