Wisconsin Badgers Thread

[BUCKnation]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

Seems like Brad and Chucky got slightly worse as their careers got longer

[BUCKnation]

The Davis slander here lately is total crap. Overhyped? GTFOH. He faded in his final few games but that kid was a legit star and a worthy POTY.

He also got injured in the last reg season game affecting tournament play. He outplayed both Murray and Ivey for most of that year in the B1G.

He made a living on making contested jumpers in college, which is a legit worry for nba prospects, but I fully expected his other intangibles to translate well at the next level. Maybe its too easy to blame washington, but it may have just been an unlucky situation.

[midranger]

If we lose out do we make the tourney?

[midranger]

Crowl is shooting 44.7% from 3 this year. The previous 2 years he shot about 31%. He’ll end up with about half as many 3 point attempts of either year despite the massive jump in percentage.

It’s all so nonsensical.

[Kerb Hohl]

Crowl is shooting 44.7% from 3 this year. The previous 2 years he shot about 31%. He’ll end up with about half as many 3 point attempts of either year despite the massive jump in percentage.

It’s all so nonsensical.

This keeps getting to me. Again, I'm down on Gard currently but you guys are picking up every rock and making up nonsensical reasons to be mad.

There are one of two answers here, one of which Gard I believe has literally said was the goal this season for Crowl:

1. Crowl magically learned to shoot at a very above average rate after 3 years of shooting 30% + Gard is somehow seeing these stats and not feeding him the ball.

2. Crowl is being instructed to only shoot when he's absolutely wide open, allowing him to make a higher percentage.

I'll let you guess which one Gard called the stated goal this year. I may or may not have made this obvious.

[Kerb Hohl]

Much like Chryst, rarely do players get noticeably better under Gard.

Seems like Brad and Chucky got slightly worse as their careers got longer

I don't think this is true...if nobody is improving other than Davis/transfers, this team wouldn't just be a bubble team or uninspiring 5 seed - they would be missing the tournament every season.

Just to over-simplify, using KenPom's O-rating, which will focus on offense but approximate things.:
Hepburn: 100, 98 (but had to be the alpha), 112
Crowl: 93, 116, 109 (high usage), 119
Wahl: 90, 100, 107, 93, 115
Davison: 107, 105, 112, 108, 114

Other than the bolded dip of last year's NIT team where he had a bunch of 2nd fiddles running the offense, those guys have improved.

I think the problem is here. Is it a Gard coaching problem or a Gard recruiting problem?
Jordan Taylor: 80 (didn't play), 110, 126, 115 - but all of those seasons were extremely high usage as the alpha.

The difference is he could shoot the 3 and score in the lane/get to the line. Chucky and Davison can only do one of them.

[jschligs]

Really it just seems that the mental toughness we had earlier this year to fight through cold stretches and other teams making a comeback has gone. For whatever reason. Combined with the fact we sometimes start off ice cold (Providence, last night), just makes winning that much harder. It seemed like in the first 15 games we would get a lead and then go a little cold, and then we'd fight to keep the lead and win. Not sure what the reason is for that. Sure, some is coaching, some is players just not being as good as we think or being streaky. Or other teams just want it more.

I'd be shocked if we don't make the tourney, assuming our Quad 1 wins stay where they are. Even if we lose out. Unless we lose first round B10. Then I could see it.

[midranger]

Crowl is shooting 44.7% from 3 this year. The previous 2 years he shot about 31%. He’ll end up with about half as many 3 point attempts of either year despite the massive jump in percentage.

It’s all so nonsensical.

This keeps getting to me. Again, I'm down on Gard currently but you guys are picking up every rock and making up nonsensical reasons to be mad.

There are one of two answers here, one of which Gard I believe has literally said was the goal this season for Crowl:

1. Crowl magically learned to shoot at a very above average rate after 3 years of shooting 30% + Gard is somehow seeing these stats and not feeding him the ball.

2. Crowl is being instructed to only shoot when he's absolutely wide open, allowing him to make a higher percentage.

I'll let you guess which one Gard called the stated goal this year. I may or may not have made this obvious.

Nah. He doesn’t even look to shoot. Doesn’t make himself a threat even when wide open. Because of that, his man packs it in making life tougher on an actual semi-adept post player like Wahl and closing down slashing lanes for the wings.

It’s ridiculous.

[Kerb Hohl]

Crowl is shooting 44.7% from 3 this year. The previous 2 years he shot about 31%. He’ll end up with about half as many 3 point attempts of either year despite the massive jump in percentage.

It’s all so nonsensical.

This keeps getting to me. Again, I'm down on Gard currently but you guys are picking up every rock and making up nonsensical reasons to be mad.

There are one of two answers here, one of which Gard I believe has literally said was the goal this season for Crowl:

1. Crowl magically learned to shoot at a very above average rate after 3 years of shooting 30% + Gard is somehow seeing these stats and not feeding him the ball.

2. Crowl is being instructed to only shoot when he's absolutely wide open, allowing him to make a higher percentage.

I'll let you guess which one Gard called the stated goal this year. I may or may not have made this obvious.

Nah. He doesn’t even look to shoot. Doesn’t make himself a threat even when wide open. Because of that, his man packs it in making life tougher on an actual semi-adept post player like Wahl and closing down slashing lanes for the wings.

It’s ridiculous.

Alrighty then. A completely bad shooter has suddenly learned to shoot in one season.

And his coach - cut from analytic cloth - that micromanages shot selection of players based on their strengths (see: the governor put on Storr) has somehow not noticed this and set up more plays for his sharpshooter, Steven Crowl.

[midranger]

Lol. Okay. Steven Crowl has caught the ball beyond the arc “wide open” exactly twice in the past 3 entire games.

He’s been “wide open” beyond the arc more than twice in a game only 2 times all year and “wide open” zero times in a game 9 times.

Other teams must think he’s a “sharpshooter” because they are apparently guarding him closely beyond the arc by your logic (they aren’t, he just isn’t shooting when wide open; not even looking at the rim to make his guy have second thoughts.)

And no, I don’t think a big developing 3 point range (and Vice versa, losing it) as an upper classman at UW is a novel concept. Maybe Gard should let his 44% shooting center have a little more leash to see if it’s real, before he micromanages himself to Stout.

[midranger]

Thankfully when Michah Potter went from a 30% to 45% 3 point shooter in one season, he didn’t cut his attempts by half. He actually increased them by 3x.

I guess some historically terrible shooters play by different rules.

[Kerb Hohl]

Thankfully when Michah Potter went from a 30% to 45% 3 point shooter in one season, he didn’t cut his attempts by half. He actually increased them by 3x.

I guess some historically terrible shooters play by different rules.

The increase you're talking about has a data point of Potter going 6/20 in an entire season at Ohio State...

He then shot 51 in an entire season at Wisconsin. Way less than Crowl in one of his average seasons.

This are tiny samples.

My goodess, man. I'll grant you that Potter was a good shooter and kept shooting them the next year. I don't think Crowl is that.

[Kerb Hohl]

Lol. Okay. Steven Crowl has caught the ball beyond the arc “wide open” exactly twice in the past 3 entire games.

He’s been “wide open” beyond the arc more than twice in a game only 2 times all year and “wide open” zero times in a game 9 times.

Other teams must think he’s a “sharpshooter” because they are apparently guarding him closely beyond the arc by your logic (they aren’t, he just isn’t shooting when wide open; not even looking at the rim to make his guy have second thoughts.)

And no, I don’t think a big developing 3 point range (and Vice versa, losing it) as an upper classman at UW is a novel concept. Maybe Gard should let his 44% shooting center have a little more leash to see if it’s real, before he micromanages himself to Stout.

Crowl is 17/38 on the season. 38 shots, a tiny sample.

Compare that to the 170 shots in the previous 2 years that we have where he shot 30% - and he actually shot about 20% when he played against good teams.

Since January 10th, Crowl is shooting 25% on 3s. That's right. 25% on 3s in the past month and a half. 5 for 20. Get this man the ball and let him launch!

[midranger]

Thankfully when Michah Potter went from a 30% to 45% 3 point shooter in one season, he didn’t cut his attempts by half. He actually increased them by 3x.

I guess some historically terrible shooters play by different rules.

The increase you're talking about has a data point of Potter going 6/20 in an entire season at Ohio State...

He then shot 51 in an entire season at Wisconsin. Way less than Crowl in one of his average seasons.

This are tiny samples.

My goodess, man. I'll grant you that Potter was a good shooter and kept shooting them the next year. I don't think Crowl is that.

Also a swing and miss.

He famously did not play an entire season that year.

[Kerb Hohl]

Thankfully when Michah Potter went from a 30% to 45% 3 point shooter in one season, he didn’t cut his attempts by half. He actually increased them by 3x.

I guess some historically terrible shooters play by different rules.

The increase you're talking about has a data point of Potter going 6/20 in an entire season at Ohio State...

He then shot 51 in an entire season at Wisconsin. Way less than Crowl in one of his average seasons.

This are tiny samples.

My goodess, man. I'll grant you that Potter was a good shooter and kept shooting them the next year. I don't think Crowl is that.

Also a swing and miss.

He famously did not play an entire season that year.

Swing and a miss from you. Do you understand the term "small sample size" ?

Doesn't matter how many games he played if you're using a very volatile small number to prove your point.

The bulk of the data we have (and Gard sits in on practice) tells us that Crowl is a passable 3P shooter (30%), not a 45% guy. Shoot it if you're absolutely wide open.

Giannis is a 28.6% 3-point shooter in his career.

There have been a few months where he shot 40%. February of 2022 he shot 13/33 (very similar to Crowl's line) and it turns out we had not unearthed a 7-foot Steph Curry. He still is a 28% guy that shoots 1, maybe 2 a game.

I'm all for the idea that Gard is not getting enough talent, not the best tactician, not a talent developer enough to win at a high level. I reject the idea that he's letting elite elite skillsets rot.

[MikeIsGood]

I would like to revisit my popcorn gifs from last night.

[trwi7]

It's less exhausting arguing with a toddler than it is arguing with Kerb.

[midranger]

The increase you're talking about has a data point of Potter going 6/20 in an entire season at Ohio State...

He then shot 51 in an entire season at Wisconsin. Way less than Crowl in one of his average seasons.

This are tiny samples.

My goodess, man. I'll grant you that Potter was a good shooter and kept shooting them the next year. I don't think Crowl is that.

Also a swing and miss.

He famously did not play an entire season that year.

Swing and a miss from you. Do you understand the term "small sample size" ?

Doesn't matter how many games he played if you're using a very volatile small number to prove your point.

The bulk of the data we have (and Gard sits in on practice) tells us that Crowl is a passable 3P shooter (30%), not a 45% guy. Shoot it if you're absolutely wide open.

Giannis is a 28.6% 3-point shooter in his career.

There have been a few months where he shot 40%. February of 2022 he shot 13/33 (very similar to Crowl's line) and it turns out we had not unearthed a 7-foot Steph Curry. He still is a 28% guy that shoots 1, maybe 2 a game.

I'm all for the idea that Gard is not getting enough talent, not the best tactician, not a talent developer enough to win at a high level. I reject the idea that he's letting elite elite skillsets rot.

No one said Crowl is an elite shooter. He is what his percentage an volume say he is. A good shooter on a (very) limited volume.

My contention is he hurts our offense when he doesn’t take the open shots that are available multiple times per game. Or at least pump fake a shot prior to swinging. The percentages say he’s a good enough shooter to take them when available. If the percentages change, change strategy. He’s clearly been told to not shoot them, and again I think it’s folly because it hurts our offense. If our defense was good enough this year that wouldn’t matter because our offense is still solid. But Gard is coaching these guys to a really poor defensive year. So the offense needs to great.

Here’s the game log

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/steven-crowl-1/gamelog/

He stopped shooting entirely around Nebraska except for OSU (W). How have the rest of those games gone? How does our record compare when he gets up 2 or more threes to our record with 0 or 1 attempts?

[Kerb Hohl]

Also a swing and miss.

He famously did not play an entire season that year.

Swing and a miss from you. Do you understand the term "small sample size" ?

Doesn't matter how many games he played if you're using a very volatile small number to prove your point.

The bulk of the data we have (and Gard sits in on practice) tells us that Crowl is a passable 3P shooter (30%), not a 45% guy. Shoot it if you're absolutely wide open.

Giannis is a 28.6% 3-point shooter in his career.

There have been a few months where he shot 40%. February of 2022 he shot 13/33 (very similar to Crowl's line) and it turns out we had not unearthed a 7-foot Steph Curry. He still is a 28% guy that shoots 1, maybe 2 a game.

I'm all for the idea that Gard is not getting enough talent, not the best tactician, not a talent developer enough to win at a high level. I reject the idea that he's letting elite elite skillsets rot.

No one said Crowl is an elite shooter. He is what his percentage an volume say he is. A good shooter on a (very) limited volume.

My contention is he hurts our offense when he doesn’t take the open shots that are available multiple times per game. Or at least pump fake a shot prior to swinging. The percentages say he’s a good enough shooter to take them when available. If the percentages change, change strategy. He’s clearly been told to not shoot them, and again I think it’s folly because it hurts our offense. If our defense was good enough this year that wouldn’t matter because our offense is still solid. But Gard is coaching these guys to a really poor defensive year. So the offense needs to great.

Here’s the game log

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/steven-crowl-1/gamelog/

He stopped shooting entirely around Nebraska except for OSU (W). How have the rest of those games gone? How does our record compare when he gets up 2 or more threes to our record with 0 or 1 attempts?

He's a completely adequate shooter and yes, I don't hate the contention that he could shoot a few more times if open.

I strongly disagree that the fact he is shooting 45% on an insanely limited amount of shots suggests that he's going to be a weapon there. I'm sure there are dozens of posts from last year wanting to kick him off the team because for a vast majority of the conference season when they sputtered, he shot something like 18% on 3s.

[Kerb Hohl]

It's less exhausting arguing with a toddler than it is arguing with Kerb.

I mean maybe I should just shut up but it's comical at this point. Even I agree that he's not doing something adequately enough to get the team to top 15 levels on an occasional basis.

But as soon as I reach that reasonable point, apparently we're basically DePaul according to some on here? Apparently nobody on the roster has ever improved, we're telling ace shooters not to shoot...like, if what you guys are saying are true, this team would be 5-23 right now. Do you realize that?

I'd like to try something after this long new but if they wanted him to stick around for another 5 years...he's not that bad.