LeBron and Steph vs MJ and Bird

[DCasey91]

under derek harper style 90's rules i could see MJ taking it upon himself to limit Curry and seeing Bird taunting Lebron daring him to shoot, while Bird embarrases LBJ on the other end

You do know you could get an open 3 any time u wanted in the 90's?

90's rules would be even worse because duh stack iso heavy press. Imagine its not Kerr and it's bloody fn Curry free literally open anywhere on the perimeter lol. That's a bad time

And you must know Curry can let rip from the logo and his handles are GOAT worthy. Also LeBron is a massive meat shield.

Screen hand off pick your poison here

There's actually film in the playoffs of Miller doing a simple in and out and MJ got lost dude could have checked the wind beforehand

Jordan was a roamer privy to what people believed. It would go against his own style of defending. Good luck to him giving Curry room, not that I would think you would match them up man on man

No one is embarrassing the other. But rules and philosophy would put it directly into Bron/Curry's favour

we are talking about 2 on 2 basketball.. not a full 5 on 5 team

i gave my defense on why i think the edge would go to bird/jordan

they have the best 2 isolation players in this fantasy matchup

I don't care for 2 on 2 that's not NBA nor team basketball

Go walk out to any court and envision having the rim all the way to the logo live. Because that's what your getting with Curry and Lebron. 5 Wemby's don't come close to guarding that amount of space.

Also Bird and Jordan haven't played with high usage players for X amount of time on ball seasons on end... Curry and Bron have.

[Cavsfansince84]

LeBron hasnt come out and denied it

why would i lie

also in this supposed matchup.. you are taking 2 of the best 1 on 1 players ever.. yes Larry was elite in iso as well( although their is no metrics to pull that up). But ben taylor did a podcast on tracking birds games in his prime and according to ben bird was just as a effective in isolation as 2018 james harden in 1987

where as LeBron primarly is an elite transtion.. 5-out type of player, who even in his miami heat days was dared by defenses like the spurs to shoot and not get layups at the rim..

so in a 2 on 2 game where its basically isolation, how on earth is curry gonna shake free from jordan when you are in my scenario allowing jordan to use his hands to play defense

and then theres bird who might not be as strong as bron, but he is just as good of a passer and historcially a much better jump shooter, all it would really take is one Bron brick from the outside and the curry/bron team might not ever get the ball back until the score is something crazy like 15-5 lol

LeBron and Ochocinco having an anecdotal 1 on 1 game where Ochocinco supposedly won doesn't have of any relevance to anything. It's just a complete red herring to even add to a discussion like this one. LeBron has nothing to prove when playing against non nba players and Chad is a world class athlete in terms of speed anyhow. The only relevance would be if this were about them playing 2 on 2 and that's not what this thread is about despite you thinking it is. It's about building around each duo over a period of 15+ years.

[NBA4Lyfe]

You do know you could get an open 3 any time u wanted in the 90's?

90's rules would be even worse because duh stack iso heavy press. Imagine its not Kerr and it's bloody fn Curry free literally open anywhere on the perimeter lol. That's a bad time

And you must know Curry can let rip from the logo and his handles are GOAT worthy. Also LeBron is a massive meat shield.

Screen hand off pick your poison here

There's actually film in the playoffs of Miller doing a simple in and out and MJ got lost dude could have checked the wind beforehand

Jordan was a roamer privy to what people believed. It would go against his own style of defending. Good luck to him giving Curry room, not that I would think you would match them up man on man

No one is embarrassing the other. But rules and philosophy would put it directly into Bron/Curry's favour

we are talking about 2 on 2 basketball.. not a full 5 on 5 team

i gave my defense on why i think the edge would go to bird/jordan

they have the best 2 isolation players in this fantasy matchup

I don't care for 2 on 2 that's not NBA nor team basketball

can you read the title of this thread bro

it literally says bird/jordan vs curry/lebon

those are the only 4 players mentioned in this scenario

[NBA4Lyfe]

LeBron hasnt come out and denied it

why would i lie

also in this supposed matchup.. you are taking 2 of the best 1 on 1 players ever.. yes Larry was elite in iso as well( although their is no metrics to pull that up). But ben taylor did a podcast on tracking birds games in his prime and according to ben bird was just as a effective in isolation as 2018 james harden in 1987

where as LeBron primarly is an elite transtion.. 5-out type of player, who even in his miami heat days was dared by defenses like the spurs to shoot and not get layups at the rim..

so in a 2 on 2 game where its basically isolation, how on earth is curry gonna shake free from jordan when you are in my scenario allowing jordan to use his hands to play defense

and then theres bird who might not be as strong as bron, but he is just as good of a passer and historcially a much better jump shooter, all it would really take is one Bron brick from the outside and the curry/bron team might not ever get the ball back until the score is something crazy like 15-5 lol

LeBron and Ochocinco having an anecdotal 1 on 1 game where Ochocinco supposedly won doesn't have of any relevance to anything. It's just a complete red herring to even add to a discussion like this one. LeBron has nothing to prove when playing against non nba players and Chad is a world class athlete in terms of speed anyhow. The only relevance would be if this were about them playing 2 on 2 and that's not what this thread is about despite you thinking it is. It's about building around each duo over a period of 15+ years.

in this scenario chad ochocinco was no longer in his prime i dont believe, while LeBron was the peak of his powers in 2012 playing for the Heat. Its absouletly relevant in this case, especially when they played to a score as high as 21

[DCasey91]

we are talking about 2 on 2 basketball.. not a full 5 on 5 team

i gave my defense on why i think the edge would go to bird/jordan

they have the best 2 isolation players in this fantasy matchup

I don't care for 2 on 2 that's not NBA nor team basketball

can you read the title of this thread bro

it literally says bird/jordan vs curry/lebon

those are the only 4 players mentioned in this scenario

... It says who would you build around. Try again

Cool I'll just grab either two and build some air around them I guess lol seriously

[DCasey91]

NBA court dimensions is 94 by 50

Half that is 37 by 25 equals 925.

925 feet of space is live. I repeat that

It brings in the most space and gravity. Offensive analysis backs value by sheer effectiveness of whats coming in.

Miller's Pacers gave teams trouble, Keem and full 4 out

It's scary to imagine the best 4 out player of all time with the best counterpart not close

[Cavsfansince84]

in this scenario chad ochocinco was no longer in his prime i dont believe, while LeBron was the peak of his powers in 2012 playing for the Heat. Its absouletly relevant in this case, especially when they played to a score as high as 21

Well to you it may mean something. To me it means absolutely nothing that you think a. its a given LeBron was taking it as serious as Chad was and b. it has any relevance at all to this thread topic or LeBron as a player. It's like watching a tape of the 50 year old guy who beat MJ 1 on 1 at one of his camps when MJ was about 45 except this is a 34 year old nfl player with world class speed we are talking about.

[McBubbles]

under derek harper style 90's rules i could see MJ taking it upon himself to limit Curry and seeing Bird taunting Lebron daring him to shoot, while Bird embarrases LBJ on the other end

Some of you are just using this forum as an outlet to write erotic NBA fan-fiction for your favourite characters I swear. Imagine being so bias that you imagine a scenario in which Larry **** Bird of all people has to play defence on Lebron and it ends up with "he taunts him, embarrasses him and dares him to shoot" and not:

[OhayoKD]

MJ retired 3 times. Bird was injured a lot. These things all happened. You hand wave them away based on changing circumstances. Sure.

Yet if Lebron gets Curry, he doesn't have trust issues and horrible management from day 1. He then doesn't feel the pressure to move on and take control of his destinations like he did, therefore the arguement of him 'changing teams likes he changes clothes' can also be easily talked to given context.

Could he still leave? Sure, is it less likely? Also probably.

In the exact same way as MJ and Bird might be different, maybe Lebron is too.

If you can't even admit that, then the agenda is clear and I'll let you be.

Of course I admit it. It's less likely.. but Lebron also left Miami who were an excellent organization and had a competitive team in 2014 so it's very slippery ground. Just like Bird's injuries which gave me quite a pause. That's why I don't think it's crazy to take Lebron/Curry.

The 2014 Heat were not in a comparable position to compete as the Cavs were.

I have no clue what the point of "changin teams and changing clothes" is either. Helping one organization hoard success is not some moral high-ground.

This whole "let's make it about something other than basketball" thing whenever it's time to defend worse basketball players is a bad look.

[McBubbles]

lets not exgerate Lebrons 1 on 1 skills

the truth is the league opened the game up and it added another 10 years to his career

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/chad-johnson-bold-claim-about-lebron-james#:~:text=He%20claims%20he%20beat%20LeBron,like%20that%20on%20the%20court.

CINCINNATI — Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson is one of the greatest players in Bengals' history. The former six-time Pro Bowler was inducted into the Ring of Honor last month.

Johnson was dominant on the football field, but he says he was just as dangerous on the basketball court. He claims he beat LeBron James in a game of 1-on-1 when James was playing for the Miami Heat.

When he was with the Heat we played 1-on-1 at the YMCA. I beat him 21-17," Johnson said on the Nightcap Show With Unc and Ocho. "I'm really like that on the court. I beat LeBron 21-17. Ask him. I beat him 21-17 for $1,000. I'm like that on the court and he didn't know that until we played. He was like 'damn, Ocho. You quick as hell.' I caught him off the dribble and he fell."

Let's not exaggerate Michael Jordan's 1 on 1 skills. The truth is the leagues illegal defence rules opened up the game and it added another 10 years to his career.

Michael Jordan got beaten in a game of 1 on 1 by investor John Rodgers.

'Coach said even though I wasn't a good passer, I was a good 1-1 player. I had a lot of tricky shots. The last tricky shot, right when it was about to go in, you could hear MJ say "Oh no"... That was a lot of fun'.

[Djoker]

Of course I admit it. It's less likely.. but Lebron also left Miami who were an excellent organization and had a competitive team in 2014 so it's very slippery ground. Just like Bird's injuries which gave me quite a pause. That's why I don't think it's crazy to take Lebron/Curry.

The 2014 Heat were not in a comparable position to compete as the Cavs were.

I have no clue what the point of "changin teams and changing clothes" is either. Helping one organization hoard success is not some moral high-ground.

This whole "let's make it about something other than basketball" thing whenever it's time to defend worse basketball players is a bad look.

I'm not talking about moral high ground. I'm just saying that if you're a GM building a team, with hindsight, you'd be cautious about drafting Lebron because you have no benefit from him while he's playing for another team.

[OhayoKD]

The 2014 Heat were not in a comparable position to compete as the Cavs were.

I have no clue what the point of "changin teams and changing clothes" is either. Helping one organization hoard success is not some moral high-ground.

This whole "let's make it about something other than basketball" thing whenever it's time to defend worse basketball players is a bad look.

I'm not talking about moral high ground. I'm just saying that if you're a GM building a team, with hindsight, you'd be cautious about drafting Lebron because you have no benefit from him while he's playing for another team.

Fair enough, I should have followed the conversation better.

[Saints14]

LeBron and Curry might be the best fit ever. It would be a supercharged version of several proven title-winning models:

- LeBron + shooting
- LeBron + dynamic guard scorer
- Curry + playmaking forward
- Curry + wing defender
- Curry + wing scorer

I'd pick LeBron and Curry over any other duo to build around

[scrabbarista]

I've been simming this since the OP. I'm in the Second Round of the eleventh season right now. All four players are still on their original teams; I'll keep simming until none of the four are, then post the results in their own thread: I don't know what board, but I'll make a post here saying which one (unless it's the GB).

EDIT: I won't sim until they leave the team, but rather until the team is no longer "built around" them. So, like, one of them will have to be the best player, and the other will have to be no worse than third-best. Late-era Spurs are an example where you could argue about their best player, but you couldn't really argue they weren't built (largely) around Duncan.

[OhayoKD]

McHale was a great shot blocker but with McHale guard the small forwards you lose some shot blocking from the small forwards dragging McHale away from the paint. There were a few outside shooting power forwards in the league but most of the power forwards could not shoot from outside in that era. The power forward often was fighting for inside offensive rebound position for the entire 24 second possession. The rebounding battles were more intense in that era. The paint was clogged. Guards were attempting to drive to the rim through a clogged paint.
=

And again the person battling inside generally wasn't Bird. This becomes obvious if you track contested rebounds vs uncontested. For example, of Bird's 14 defensive rebounds in game 1 of the 87 ecf, 12 were uncontested.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

And again the person battling inside generally wasn't Bird. This becomes obvious if you track contested rebounds vs uncontested. For example, of Bird's 14 defensive rebounds in game 1 of the 87 ecf, 12 were uncontested.

Bird was always battling inside.
KC overplayed the starters in 1987. Bird may have been exhausted and a bit injured. McHale was playing on a broken foot. It was an epic battle for the Celtic to beat the Pistons in 1987.

[NbaAllDay]

I've been simming this since the OP. I'm in the Second Round of the eleventh season right now. All four players are still on their original teams; I'll keep simming until none of the four are, then post the results in their own thread: I don't know what board, but I'll make a post here saying which one (unless it's the GB).

EDIT: I won't sim until they leave the team, but rather until the team is no longer "built around" them. So, like, one of them will have to be the best player, and the other will have to be no worse than third-best. Late-era Spurs are an example where you could argue about their best player, but you couldn't really argue they weren't built (largely) around Duncan.

How did this go? Not that it holds any real insight I always enjoyed the simming outcomes.

[scrabbarista]

I've been simming this since the OP. I'm in the Second Round of the eleventh season right now. All four players are still on their original teams; I'll keep simming until none of the four are, then post the results in their own thread: I don't know what board, but I'll make a post here saying which one (unless it's the GB).

EDIT: I won't sim until they leave the team, but rather until the team is no longer "built around" them. So, like, one of them will have to be the best player, and the other will have to be no worse than third-best. Late-era Spurs are an example where you could argue about their best player, but you couldn't really argue they weren't built (largely) around Duncan.

How did this go? Not that it holds any real insight I always enjoyed the simming outcomes.

I'm in Year 16 now. It's a ton of fun. Will post when done.

[shakes0]

cmon, this is MJ/Bird and it's the definition of AINEC.

Jordan >> Lebron
Bird >>>> Curry

Bird playing in today's NBA with the emphasis on 3s would be a top 5 player of all time.

[scrabbarista]

I've been simming this since the OP. I'm in the Second Round of the eleventh season right now. All four players are still on their original teams; I'll keep simming until none of the four are, then post the results in their own thread: I don't know what board, but I'll make a post here saying which one (unless it's the GB).

EDIT: I won't sim until they leave the team, but rather until the team is no longer "built around" them. So, like, one of them will have to be the best player, and the other will have to be no worse than third-best. Late-era Spurs are an example where you could argue about their best player, but you couldn't really argue they weren't built (largely) around Duncan.

How did this go? Not that it holds any real insight I always enjoyed the simming outcomes.

As its own thread on the PC board now.