Gary Trent Jr. adapting to a defensive stopper role

[ConSarnit]

Gary is more of a gambler than a disciplined defender, from whenever I’ve seen him. He can get steals but it hasn’t always meant defensive stopper.

Kinda like the opposite style of Bruce Brown in some ways. Brown plays more physical and gets down in his stance.



I’m still of the opinion that we should re-sign Gary, if he can come around the same as his current value ($16-18M/year). It might end up being another 2+1 deal with him.

I hate the gambling for steals but he has been more conservative lately and it has helped the team more. I just think he is pretty comfortable in this type of role.

Cost-wise it is difficult to imagine him at the same level in a thin free agent class. He is still over 40% from three and if proves himself as a defender. Toronto doing a longer 4 year deal might be a good option as he probably wants a home long term.

We won't offer him to a 4 year deal. Masai doesn't hand those out. I think he would be willing to take a reasonable deal to stay in Toronto. It seems like he doesn't want to move and he's happy here for the most part.

Gary will always be infuriating to watch because he has no passing or ball handling ability for a guard and his defensive effort wains. However, if he's willing to get paid as a 6-7th man range then he's a welcome piece. I don't think he should get paid near starter money because he's not a starting calibre guard in the NBA.

If Trent is willing to take a 4 year deal at around the MLE I would be willing to lock him in that long. Normally I am against signing role players for longer than 3 years but at that value I'd be on board. I doubt Trent would take it though given that he's still young(ish) and the cap is going to go up a lot in the next couple of year.

Ideal world for us: 2+1 at around 3/40. Trent remains moveable, his salary is in-line with his role (5th-7th man). Trent gets back out there still in his prime when the cap is much higher. My guess: that type of deal probably doesn't get it done and someone in need of shooting talks themselves into Trent and gives him a 3/50 (or maybe 2/36?) type deal.

[Stromile12]

Putting in effort on defense right before he hits free agency... Yeah, somebody else can pay him.

[ConSarnit]

My guess is that the Warriors are sick of Wiggins' nonsense (more "personal reasons" today) and will pay us to take him off their hands in exchange for Brown. Wiggins' deal ends in 2027, which is a good summer to have lot of cap space.

We can trade Brown on the draft date.

Yes, we can, but we have to exercise his option to do so. I continue to be convinced that we will do this, and move him on draft weekend. For example, to Houston for Landale and Tate's expirings and a 1st. We are not taking on 3 years and $84 million of Wiggins.

Isn't Brown's option date June 29th? The draft is June 26th.

[JB7]

elite at shutting himself down on fast breaks

This is the best take on what GTJ is actually elite at

[ItsDanger]

Let him walk. These trade ballast arguments are tired.

[hyper316]

Let him walk. These trade ballast arguments are tired.

Trent cannot be counted on. Just move on.

Sad to see Norm trade panned out like this

[islandboy53]

We can trade Brown on the draft date.

Yes, we can, but we have to exercise his option to do so. I continue to be convinced that we will do this, and move him on draft weekend. For example, to Houston for Landale and Tate's expirings and a 1st. We are not taking on 3 years and $84 million of Wiggins.

Isn't Brown's option date June 29th? The draft is June 26th.

This is from the current CBA. Free agents can't be traded after the deadline. Players with an option, like Brown, are treated as free agents. I f you want to trade Brown, you have to exercise his option.

"A Team cannot trade any player after the NBA trade deadline
occurring in the last Season of the player’s Contract, or after the NBA
trade deadline occurring in any Season that could be the last Season of the
player’s Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or
Early Termination Option."

[islandboy53]

Let him walk. These trade ballast arguments are tired.

Trent cannot be counted on. Just move on.

Sad to see Norm trade panned out like this

Sad to see we got such a **** return for Vince Carter, but I've moved on. Give it a try.

[Thaddy]

I would keep Trent if the price is fair. He's been in a worse situation in Portland so maybe the bridge isn't burnt with the front office. The issue with Gary is he expects to be treated like a starter when he's a 7th or 8th man on a roster. I'd give him 15M a year max, he's too one dimensional.

[Dalek]

Let him walk. These trade ballast arguments are tired.

We can let him walk, but given our failure at signing free agents of value, and the draft not having sure fire starters, it seems like we would be in a tough place to replace his impact being able to start, hits threes and take on POA duties (to a degree). We might end up more likely to keep Bruce Brown around if we give up on Trent Jr. which is a bit depressing.

In the back of my mind is the thought that some players take a while to find their niche in NBA. Look at Aaron Nesmith for instance. I never thought he would be such a tough defender and Indy got him at pretty amazing value. I don't think it is impossible that Gary ends up a decent three and D guard. Yes, he sucks in transition and has trouble reading the floor, but he hits some pretty big shots and has been pretty accepting of constant role changes.

[islandboy53]

Let him walk. These trade ballast arguments are tired.

We can let him walk, but given our failure at signing free agents of value, and the draft not having sure fire starters, it seems like we would be in a tough place to replace his impact being able to start, hits threes and take on POA duties (to a degree). We might end up more likely to keep Bruce Brown around if we give up on Trent Jr. which is a bit depressing.

In the back of my mind is the thought that some players take a while to find their niche in NBA. Look at Aaron Nesmith for instance. I never thought he would be such a tough defender and Indy got him at pretty amazing value. I don't think it is impossible that Gary ends up a decent three and D guard. Yes, he sucks in transition and has trouble reading the floor, but he hits some pretty big shots and has been pretty accepting of constant role changes.

At the post trade deadline presser, Bobby said that Trent was "TBD", as I recall. I take that to mean that he'll be given a chance to show what he can do over the balance of the season. Pending his performance, the development of Gradey, and our picks in the draft, Gary may or may not be back. He can shoot the ball, which we need, but Gradey may be ready to take his starting spot, and I think we don't bring him back to come off the bench. My prediction is a sign and trade to somewhere like Orlando, who can desperately use his shooting, with some assets coming back. I just don't see teams lining up to offer him big $, but he could end up walking to Detroit for a ridiculous amount.

[johanliebert]

Same posters who hated fvv and Dennis moved onto GTJ and Brown.

[Indeed]

My guess is that the Warriors are sick of Wiggins' nonsense (more "personal reasons" today) and will pay us to take him off their hands in exchange for Brown. Wiggins' deal ends in 2027, which is a good summer to have lot of cap space.

We can trade Brown on the draft date.

Yes, we can, but we have to exercise his option to do so. I continue to be convinced that we will do this, and move him on draft weekend. For example, to Houston for Landale and Tate's expirings and a 1st. We are not taking on 3 years and $84 million of Wiggins.

We can trade him during the playoffs without excercise his option? But Wiggins does seem to be the type of player that Darko is looking for on his offense (nor Trent who doesn't make the right pass).

Edit: We need to excercise his option

[Scase]

What we should really be doing is starting Ochai over Barrett in the starting lineup and we're really cooking.

In theory, not a bad idea. In practice, RJ has been playing so well here due to most (like 79% of his points at the rim IIRC) of his buckets coming from assists and putting him in a good position to score. I don't think our bench units will be able to do as well as IQ/Jak/Scottie do, to put him in those spots.

[Indeed]

Let him walk. These trade ballast arguments are tired.

We can let him walk, but given our failure at signing free agents of value, and the draft not having sure fire starters, it seems like we would be in a tough place to replace his impact being able to start, hits threes and take on POA duties (to a degree). We might end up more likely to keep Bruce Brown around if we give up on Trent Jr. which is a bit depressing.

In the back of my mind is the thought that some players take a while to find their niche in NBA. Look at Aaron Nesmith for instance. I never thought he would be such a tough defender and Indy got him at pretty amazing value. I don't think it is impossible that Gary ends up a decent three and D guard. Yes, he sucks in transition and has trouble reading the floor, but he hits some pretty big shots and has been pretty accepting of constant role changes.

The problem is, I dont see Trent fitting to our system. Making the pass and moving without the ball. He fits better when he has a role, because he is a specialist.

As for cap space, i think we are better to take on a bad contract. I dont see we are good enough to out score opponent, we dont have an elite offensive player nor elite defensive player, so I am unsure we our net rating would be positive to be above .500

[LBJKB24MJ23]

right now, unless he develops his handles, playmaking, and driving ability, he's a 3+D guy.

if he settles into that role with some conviction, he can maximize himself in the NBA

[TorontoRapsFan]

Let him walk. These trade ballast arguments are tired.

We can let him walk, but given our failure at signing free agents of value, and the draft not having sure fire starters, it seems like we would be in a tough place to replace his impact being able to start, hits threes and take on POA duties (to a degree). We might end up more likely to keep Bruce Brown around if we give up on Trent Jr. which is a bit depressing.

In the back of my mind is the thought that some players take a while to find their niche in NBA. Look at Aaron Nesmith for instance. I never thought he would be such a tough defender and Indy got him at pretty amazing value. I don't think it is impossible that Gary ends up a decent three and D guard. Yes, he sucks in transition and has trouble reading the floor, but he hits some pretty big shots and has been pretty accepting of constant role changes.

The problem is, I dont see Trent fitting to our system. Making the pass and moving without the ball. He fits better when he has a role, because he is a specialist.

As for cap space, i think we are better to take on a bad contract. I dont see we are good enough to out score opponent, we dont have an elite offensive player nor elite defensive player, so I am unsure we our net rating would be positive to be above .500

If he's smart he'll take less money if he has to and sign with a team that can guarantee him at least 15 fga per game. Even if for one year. No reason he can't get himself to look like a scorer again.

[Dalek]

right now, unless he develops his handles, playmaking, and driving ability, he's a 3+D guy.

if he settles into that role with some conviction, he can maximize himself in the NBA

He does have some ability to drive into the paint and create a shot from the elbows. I trust him as a shot maker and creator just not a guy who gets to the rim. That's RJ's area.

If I were to judge players and their optimal shots: IQ pull-up threes and c&s threes, RJ driving into the paint mostly off cuts and GTJ corner threes and bailout mid range jumpers. Barnes to me is a post player until he further develops his shooting confidence.

[ConSarnit]

right now, unless he develops his handles, playmaking, and driving ability, he's a 3+D guy.

if he settles into that role with some conviction, he can maximize himself in the NBA

He does have some ability to drive into the paint and create a shot from the elbows. I trust him as a shot maker and creator just not a guy who gets to the rim. That's RJ's area.

If I were to judge players and their optimal shots: IQ pull-up threes and c&s threes, RJ driving into the paint mostly off cuts and GTJ corner threes and bailout mid range jumpers. Barnes to me is a post player until he further develops his shooting confidence.

Trent can create a shot from the elbows because it’s the exact shot every defense hopes he’ll take. It’s one of the worst shots anyone can possibly create. No team wants a role player taking those types of shots.

Trent from 10-19ft:

21/22: 44%
22/23: 42%
23/24: 33%

Even in his best year that is terrible half court offense. He’s also not creating good shots for anyone else on those pull-ups because he’s also a bad passer.

The entire 3pt/offensive explosion has been because teams have stopped allowing role players to take those types of midrange shots. One of the major reasons RJ has seen his efficiency increase here is because we’ve let him take something like 3 TOTAL midrange attempts. Trent should get the same treatment.

Put it this way: for this season, we’d be better off with Trent taking off the dribble 3’s at 23% fg than letting him dribble into a midrange shot. That’s how bad a self-created Trent midrange attempt is.

[Tom_Foolery]

I really don't know wtf you guys see in him. It frustrates me immensely.