Wisconsin Badgers Thread

[MikeIsGood]

Got a little dusty in my living room for Howard Moore.

What a senseless **** tragedy.

Their accident was like 9 months after I'd been hit head-on by a drunk driver that crossed the (like 20 **** feet wide) median. I walked away with a broken elbow and rib; he lost his wife and kid. It always gets me.

[buckboy]

Got a little dusty in my living room for Howard Moore.

What a senseless **** tragedy.

Their accident was like 9 months after I'd been hit head-on by a drunk driver that crossed the (like 20 **** feet wide) median. I walked away with a broken elbow and rib; he lost his wife and kid. It always gets me.

Sounds like you were very lucky.

[MissKhriddleton]

Did we recruit this Damask kid?

[Kerb Hohl]

Did we recruit this Damask kid?

Nobody did out of HS, Illinois offered more $ as a super senior transfer.

Also I think we also had Storr so not many minutes to offer.

[midranger]

Got a little dusty in my living room for Howard Moore.

What a senseless **** tragedy.

I’ve spoken with a few ex-players about Moore. The dude is universally beloved. Really rough knowing what he’s been through. God bless.

[MikeIsGood]

Did we recruit this Damask kid?

No. We may have talked to him, but he was never on our actual radar. And to be fair, he was never on the radar with any prominent team. So props to him.

Wish we could have brought him via transfer, however.

[DingleJerry]

I wasn't talked about this season's streak. The thread has just generally been less hostile for a couple seasons IIRC. I definitely don't recall people calling for his head after every loss last season, and certainly not with 2-3 pages of people at each other's throats like it was for a couple seasons, but I'm sure I'm less sensitive to it than you are.

Right, I was just surprised anyone would say this fire talk didn't exist during such a bad year last year. It was, uh, quite prevalent in spite of winning the conference the literal year before. Then this year starts badly and of course it hammers on a again, and after Providence it was tough to blame anyone as at that point it looked like another no tourney year. Then two months of being good it went away, like two games of struggles and it was right back.

And to be be clear, I don't think its wrong to start talking about it now. Bad year last year, what looks like an epic collapse this year, so no seems to be about when the discussion should be started imo. It should not be during the seasons following championships like had happened in 21 and 23 season. Or say they'd stayed being good this year and got 2nd to Pur, like a 3 seed and won a game in the tourney. Or say they bounce back now, beat Il and Rut, win one or two in B1G, one or two in NCAA. After you lose a game or two next year there should be no "told ya Gard isn't the guy" stuff. Finish out this year dogsshh like its going now, yea next year the fire is hot and can't blame anyone. Just can't have the overreactions and be the programs that fires coached every 2-3 years, its not the best long term way to do things.

Here’s the thing: yeah, next year’s team could be pretty good if they hit a home run in Wahl’s spot through the portal. It’s not going to be a bad team.

But if you hire a new, good coach these days, 3/4 of the guys may stay and even if they don’t, he can build just as good of a team or better in a single offseason.

Yea why not just use the one you already have instead of doing all that though. And like you said the coach has to be good, you don't know if the new guy is good or if UW can hang in that world. There's as good of a chance you end up bottom 5 team in the conf rather than just play out with the good team you have. Bottomline, finishing 5-6ish in the conf isn't 'fire' time yet. Don't win another game this year and its a different story though. But generally speaking they played better today and hung right with a good team.

[DingleJerry]

Did we recruit this Damask kid?

From my area so know a bit about it. At the HS level he didn't seem to have upper D1 athleticism, he of course was a good shooter and great player. But at his size in that level of play, he basically played down low and just completely dominated the post with his level of skill. But his size can't play down low at D1. So, it was tough to see if he could play wing at the upper D1 level. Really it is surprising how much he's improved his body/athleticism from HS, must have really put in the work.

Interesting tidbits, his older brother was also super good, I think ended at the d2 level. His 'profile' was he was a really really good athlete/leaper but wasn't tall enough for D1. Put his athleticism in this ones frame and you'd have a Dekker type recruit. Their dad was the HS coach in Waupun though so the IQ stuff and all that was there all the way. I would hope UW at least offered a walkon but I don't recall how it went down. ETA: don't hold me to this but I also think they had two sisters who were really good on those Waupun teams that won or got close to winning state several times. One of those crazy bball families, so would've been one to roll the dice on just on that

[paulpressey25]

Apparent consensus I guess.

It depends on what you want. Feel like Gard is Steve Yoder Mach II.

Not asking for a top ten team. But feels like we could do better.

[Kerb Hohl]

Right, I was just surprised anyone would say this fire talk didn't exist during such a bad year last year. It was, uh, quite prevalent in spite of winning the conference the literal year before. Then this year starts badly and of course it hammers on a again, and after Providence it was tough to blame anyone as at that point it looked like another no tourney year. Then two months of being good it went away, like two games of struggles and it was right back.

And to be be clear, I don't think its wrong to start talking about it now. Bad year last year, what looks like an epic collapse this year, so no seems to be about when the discussion should be started imo. It should not be during the seasons following championships like had happened in 21 and 23 season. Or say they'd stayed being good this year and got 2nd to Pur, like a 3 seed and won a game in the tourney. Or say they bounce back now, beat Il and Rut, win one or two in B1G, one or two in NCAA. After you lose a game or two next year there should be no "told ya Gard isn't the guy" stuff. Finish out this year dogsshh like its going now, yea next year the fire is hot and can't blame anyone. Just can't have the overreactions and be the programs that fires coached every 2-3 years, its not the best long term way to do things.

Here’s the thing: yeah, next year’s team could be pretty good if they hit a home run in Wahl’s spot through the portal. It’s not going to be a bad team.

But if you hire a new, good coach these days, 3/4 of the guys may stay and even if they don’t, he can build just as good of a team or better in a single offseason.

Yea why not just use the one you already have instead of doing all that though. And like you said the coach has to be good, you don't know if the new guy is good or if UW can hang in that world. There's as good of a chance you end up bottom 5 team in the conf rather than just play out with the good team you have. Bottomline, finishing 5-6ish in the conf isn't 'fire' time yet. Don't win another game this year and its a different story though. But generally speaking they played better today and hung right with a good team.

Because Gard doesn’t understand the new game. He thinks he’s adapting but it has passed him by.

I used to be afraid of giving up on a top Xs and Os coach with the risk, but we’re not risking anything anymore.

If 5+ guys transfer out next year, then we might have our guy.

[DingleJerry]

Here’s the thing: yeah, next year’s team could be pretty good if they hit a home run in Wahl’s spot through the portal. It’s not going to be a bad team.

But if you hire a new, good coach these days, 3/4 of the guys may stay and even if they don’t, he can build just as good of a team or better in a single offseason.

Yea why not just use the one you already have instead of doing all that though. And like you said the coach has to be good, you don't know if the new guy is good or if UW can hang in that world. There's as good of a chance you end up bottom 5 team in the conf rather than just play out with the good team you have. Bottomline, finishing 5-6ish in the conf isn't 'fire' time yet. Don't win another game this year and its a different story though. But generally speaking they played better today and hung right with a good team.

Because Gard doesn’t understand the new game. He thinks he’s adapting but it has passed him by.

I used to be afraid of giving up on a top Xs and Os coach with the risk, but we’re not risking anything anymore.

If 5+ guys transfer out next year, then we might have our guy.

Wouldn't them being good next year show that it hasn't passed him by though? So in 4 years (counting next year) he'd have 1 B1G title, one borderline team that missed, this year's top 5ish B1G team likely make NCAA lose early, then next year likely good top 5 team again but hopefully better if he does well in portal and the B1G title should be open next year with Pur going down. Those aren't fireable or passed by results, or if it is then ya'll better be ready to have a new coach every 3-4 years. Most teams would beg for those results and some give out big extensions for those results.

So essentially we're firing him before next year so that good season can't happen in the hopes that the new guy can transfer out of a bunch of players just to hopefully get the same results in a best case scenario? Assuming he does do well on the transfers and adding athletes (as he did last offseason) that is, if he fails at that and/or the team again falters or is middling like this one (in spite of being very vet next year) then it would be a sign that it has and is likely the nail in his coffin. They definitely better not do the auto extension on his contract like they've been doing though.

And I think I said previous lose out this year then its such a bad collapse to say F it, lets do it now. This discussion is assuming Rut win, at least one win in B1G Tour, then whatever in NCAA.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yea why not just use the one you already have instead of doing all that though. And like you said the coach has to be good, you don't know if the new guy is good or if UW can hang in that world. There's as good of a chance you end up bottom 5 team in the conf rather than just play out with the good team you have. Bottomline, finishing 5-6ish in the conf isn't 'fire' time yet. Don't win another game this year and its a different story though. But generally speaking they played better today and hung right with a good team.

Because Gard doesn’t understand the new game. He thinks he’s adapting but it has passed him by.

I used to be afraid of giving up on a top Xs and Os coach with the risk, but we’re not risking anything anymore.

If 5+ guys transfer out next year, then we might have our guy.

Wouldn't them being good next year show that it hasn't passed him by though? So in 4 years (counting next year) he'd have 1 B1G title, one borderline team that missed, this year's top 5ish B1G team likely make NCAA lose early, then next year likely good top 5 team again but hopefully better if he does well in portal and the B1G title should be open next year with Pur going down. Those aren't fireable or passed by results, or if it is then ya'll better be ready to have a new coach every 3-4 years. Most teams would beg for those results and some give out big extensions for those results.

So essentially we're firing him before next year so that good season can't happen in the hopes that the new guy can transfer out of a bunch of players just to hopefully get the same results in a best case scenario? Assuming he does do well on the transfers and adding athletes (as he did last offseason) that is, if he fails at that and/or the team again falters or is middling like this one (in spite of being very vet next year) then it would be a sign that it has and is likely the nail in his coffin. They definitely better not do the auto extension on his contract like they've been doing though.

And I think I said previous lose out this year then its such a bad collapse to say F it, lets do it now. This discussion is assuming Rut win, at least one win in B1G Tour, then whatever in NCAA.

Unless he changes what he does, I already know the result of next season.

Let’s pretend all of the rosters are what they are but the transfer rules are what they were 10-15 years ago.

Losing to Purdue, Illinois, and a few others would at least have the upshot of, “well, they lose their whole team next year and basically our whole team returns.”

Those teams will once again have more talent than Wisconsin next year. The ceiling is just so drastically lowered if we want to build like it’s 2010.

[DingleJerry]

Because Gard doesn’t understand the new game. He thinks he’s adapting but it has passed him by.

I used to be afraid of giving up on a top Xs and Os coach with the risk, but we’re not risking anything anymore.

If 5+ guys transfer out next year, then we might have our guy.

Wouldn't them being good next year show that it hasn't passed him by though? So in 4 years (counting next year) he'd have 1 B1G title, one borderline team that missed, this year's top 5ish B1G team likely make NCAA lose early, then next year likely good top 5 team again but hopefully better if he does well in portal and the B1G title should be open next year with Pur going down. Those aren't fireable or passed by results, or if it is then ya'll better be ready to have a new coach every 3-4 years. Most teams would beg for those results and some give out big extensions for those results.

So essentially we're firing him before next year so that good season can't happen in the hopes that the new guy can transfer out of a bunch of players just to hopefully get the same results in a best case scenario? Assuming he does do well on the transfers and adding athletes (as he did last offseason) that is, if he fails at that and/or the team again falters or is middling like this one (in spite of being very vet next year) then it would be a sign that it has and is likely the nail in his coffin. They definitely better not do the auto extension on his contract like they've been doing though.

And I think I said previous lose out this year then its such a bad collapse to say F it, lets do it now. This discussion is assuming Rut win, at least one win in B1G Tour, then whatever in NCAA.

Unless he changes what he does, I already know the result of next season.

Let’s pretend all of the rosters are what they are but the transfer rules are what they were 10-15 years ago.

Losing to Purdue, Illinois, and a few others would at least have the upshot of, “well, they lose their whole team next year and basically our whole team returns.”

Those teams will once again have more talent than Wisconsin next year. The ceiling is just so drastically lowered if we want to build like it’s 2010.

OK if you think another 20-10ish season is firing level then like I said, lets get ready to fire coaches every few years. Look up and down the B1G, almost every coach should have been fired at some point by this thinking.

But again, you're firing before even seeing. He did better this offseason, showing he sees the same stuff we do. If he improves again, gets the right PF, and does better than 20-10ish such as getting 2nd/3rd, winning some tourney games. Then well 'the game hasn't passed him by'. Those are good results. If he fails, he fails and that's probably it. Instead you're saying just fire before the season happens because. To me next year is the make or break year for him. Vet team, should be good, huge transfer window opportunity. If you don't take a step forward then you've had your chance. A middling 20-10ish 5-6th place to me still wouldn't be quite fireable, but I'd be nudging him towards retirement and working on a plan for the new era we're in now and if a Fickell type hire shows itself go for it. And due to the mass turnover next season regardless it would be a great time to do it, especially since we'd have little confidence in him nailing the transfer/nil stuff needed to do well in that big turnover.

Even a 4 year window of B1G title, just missed tourney, middling tourney, middling tourney (assuming next is like this) is not bad results for the vast majority of teams. With everything you've pointed out about how difficult it has become now, to have those results is not bad at all and we're taking a big risk blowing it up for the great unknown. I'm not gonna get mad if they do it, I get trying to take a swing and will hope for the best. But I just don't think folks realize the risk involved in it and better be ready for some rough years to happen. Or, if you're going to hold new coaches to the same standards he's held to you better be ready for a new coach every few years. And the perpetual drama/cost associated with it.

[midranger]

I don’t even know what’s happening in this thread anymore

[Kerb Hohl]

Spoiler:

Wouldn't them being good next year show that it hasn't passed him by though? So in 4 years (counting next year) he'd have 1 B1G title, one borderline team that missed, this year's top 5ish B1G team likely make NCAA lose early, then next year likely good top 5 team again but hopefully better if he does well in portal and the B1G title should be open next year with Pur going down. Those aren't fireable or passed by results, or if it is then ya'll better be ready to have a new coach every 3-4 years. Most teams would beg for those results and some give out big extensions for those results.

So essentially we're firing him before next year so that good season can't happen in the hopes that the new guy can transfer out of a bunch of players just to hopefully get the same results in a best case scenario? Assuming he does do well on the transfers and adding athletes (as he did last offseason) that is, if he fails at that and/or the team again falters or is middling like this one (in spite of being very vet next year) then it would be a sign that it has and is likely the nail in his coffin. They definitely better not do the auto extension on his contract like they've been doing though.

And I think I said previous lose out this year then its such a bad collapse to say F it, lets do it now. This discussion is assuming Rut win, at least one win in B1G Tour, then whatever in NCAA.

Unless he changes what he does, I already know the result of next season.

Let’s pretend all of the rosters are what they are but the transfer rules are what they were 10-15 years ago.

Losing to Purdue, Illinois, and a few others would at least have the upshot of, “well, they lose their whole team next year and basically our whole team returns.”

Those teams will once again have more talent than Wisconsin next year. The ceiling is just so drastically lowered if we want to build like it’s 2010.

OK if you think another 20-10ish season is firing level then like I said, lets get ready to fire coaches every few years. Look up and down the B1G, almost every coach should have been fired at some point by this thinking.

But again, you're firing before even seeing. He did better this offseason, showing he sees the same stuff we do. If he improves again, gets the right PF, and does better than 20-10ish such as getting 2nd/3rd, winning some tourney games. Then well 'the game hasn't passed him by'. Those are good results. If he fails, he fails and that's probably it. Instead you're saying just fire before the season happens because. To me next year is the make or break year for him. Vet team, should be good, huge transfer window opportunity. If you don't take a step forward then you've had your chance. A middling 20-10ish 5-6th place to me still wouldn't be quite fireable, but I'd be nudging him towards retirement and working on a plan for the new era we're in now and if a Fickell type hire shows itself go for it. And due to the mass turnover next season regardless it would be a great time to do it, especially since we'd have little confidence in him nailing the transfer/nil stuff needed to do well in that big turnover.

Even a 4 year window of B1G title, just missed tourney, middling tourney, middling tourney (assuming next is like this) is not bad results for the vast majority of teams. With everything you've pointed out about how difficult it has become now, to have those results is not bad at all and we're taking a big risk blowing it up for the great unknown. I'm not gonna get mad if they do it, I get trying to take a swing and will hope for the best. But I just don't think folks realize the risk involved in it and better be ready for some rough years to happen. Or, if you're going to hold new coaches to the same standards he's held to you better be ready for a new coach every few years. And the perpetual drama/cost associated with it.

I was the literal Gard stan and almost always backed Bo because good consistency is great, but I will not accept NIT, bubble, 6-seed as a general 3-year cycle.

That’s the road we’re going down if we’re gonna only recruit >100 ranked recruits and hold on for dear life to every solid player we have to try to develop them and only replace if we dearly need one replacement.

[MVP2110]

This could change depending on how this year finishes out. But I'd give Gard one more year to see what he could do with returning most of this same roster. But if he can't make a serious run next year I think it's time to pull the plug. I've always been a Gard defender and think people overlook those 2 Big Ten Title teams too easily. But if he can't make a run this year or next year then it's probably time to move on

[chonestown]

Apparent consensus I guess.

It depends on what you want. Feel like Gard is Steve Yoder Mach II.

Not asking for a top ten team. But feels like we could do better.

It's not so much want as viable.

I want Joyce Dewitt ca 1979, nahmean.

[BUCKnation]

That was basically every game over the last 3-4 weeks. Stay close after an initial hot/slow start then fade at the very end. Also, allow 1 or 2 to go off.

[DingleJerry]

Spoiler:

Unless he changes what he does, I already know the result of next season.

Let’s pretend all of the rosters are what they are but the transfer rules are what they were 10-15 years ago.

Losing to Purdue, Illinois, and a few others would at least have the upshot of, “well, they lose their whole team next year and basically our whole team returns.”

Those teams will once again have more talent than Wisconsin next year. The ceiling is just so drastically lowered if we want to build like it’s 2010.

OK if you think another 20-10ish season is firing level then like I said, lets get ready to fire coaches every few years. Look up and down the B1G, almost every coach should have been fired at some point by this thinking.

But again, you're firing before even seeing. He did better this offseason, showing he sees the same stuff we do. If he improves again, gets the right PF, and does better than 20-10ish such as getting 2nd/3rd, winning some tourney games. Then well 'the game hasn't passed him by'. Those are good results. If he fails, he fails and that's probably it. Instead you're saying just fire before the season happens because. To me next year is the make or break year for him. Vet team, should be good, huge transfer window opportunity. If you don't take a step forward then you've had your chance. A middling 20-10ish 5-6th place to me still wouldn't be quite fireable, but I'd be nudging him towards retirement and working on a plan for the new era we're in now and if a Fickell type hire shows itself go for it. And due to the mass turnover next season regardless it would be a great time to do it, especially since we'd have little confidence in him nailing the transfer/nil stuff needed to do well in that big turnover.

Even a 4 year window of B1G title, just missed tourney, middling tourney, middling tourney (assuming next is like this) is not bad results for the vast majority of teams. With everything you've pointed out about how difficult it has become now, to have those results is not bad at all and we're taking a big risk blowing it up for the great unknown. I'm not gonna get mad if they do it, I get trying to take a swing and will hope for the best. But I just don't think folks realize the risk involved in it and better be ready for some rough years to happen. Or, if you're going to hold new coaches to the same standards he's held to you better be ready for a new coach every few years. And the perpetual drama/cost associated with it.

I was the literal Gard stan and almost always backed Bo because good consistency is great, but I will not accept NIT, bubble, 6-seed as a general 3-year cycle.

That’s the road we’re going down if we’re gonna only recruit >100 ranked recruits and hold on for dear life to every solid player we have to try to develop them and only replace if we dearly need one replacement.

Right thats fair and all. But you're pulling the plug before the 3rd season to even see if its better than that6 seed. Right now, the 3 year window includes a B1G title. You're saying to yank before seeing if they're good next year. I'm pretty much with you, and MVP in the next post pretty much nailed it, if he can't do better than middling (like this year) with the team he should have next year then that's pretty much it. I've essentially said the same a few times in this discussion. You're saying you already know what will happen next year due to your superior knowledge over everyone else.

Or in addition, if enough of the team bails on him this offseason (so he doesn't have a theoretical good team for next year) its still on him that that happened and is the nail in the coffin.

Also forgot to say earlier if he is back I'd like an assistant coach shakeup, some kind of offensive skills development focused person, this probably should have happened years ago instead of stacking with the same guys. Something has to changed and he has to know his seat is getting hot. Could probably go for a ban on recruiting slow white MN bigs for a cycle or two too.

And like I've said, if that is the standard going forward better get ready for a new coach every 3-4 years and being like all those teams. It also seems a bit contradictory to consistently point out how much more difficult things are now in the new world while also demanding the high standards. Its fair and all, nothing wrong with trying and striving for more, I'm just saying get ready for the big negative that could come and in my opinion is more likely at UW.

[Kerb Hohl]

Or in addition, if enough of the team bails on him this offseason (so he doesn't have a theoretical good team for next year) its still on him that that happened and is the nail in the coffin.

I know our posts are both long, but I think you’ve missed my point here:

This is the best thing that can happen if we want to match the teams that are consistently good in the transfer era like Illinois for example.

If 5 bench players and Steven Crowl enter the portal next year, we’re doing something right. It’s too late now because Gard isn’t up on the new way of doing things, but he can gamble on 4 more recruits and 2 transfers then. One or two of those transfers can be offered a starting center role at a Big Ten school and hopefully some decent money.

This is how teams consistently have good teams and/or get better now.