Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[thelead]

Resigning Goga and trading WCJ for a guard should be the top priority this summer. The FA market sucks.

[RichCollab]

2024 Depth Chart

Open / Black
Suggs / Cole / Caleb
Franz/ Open / Jett
Paolo / JI
WCJ / M. Wagner

M. Wagner - Team option picked up - $8,000,000
Chuma- ???? RFA
Ingles - ????? Team Option - $11,000,000
Goga - Likely Gone - UFA
Harris - Gone - UFA
Fultz - Gone - UFA

Under Contract 2024
Paolo - $12,160,800
Franz - $ 7,007,092
Suggs - $9,188,385
Cole - $12,900,000
JI - $17,400,000 - Non-Guaranteed
WCJ - $11,950,000
Black - $7,607,760
Jett - $5,278,320
Caleb - $2,019,699 - Non-Guaranteed

I don’t think Monk makes Cole redundant. Monk slides into the open starting role.

Jett can earn a rotational spot but I don’t think he starts the year off in one. I don’t think Caleb gets a rotational spot either but he has shown improvements in areas other than shooting.

[The-Stallion70]

Possible but consider this, Weltman drafted AB. He believes in AB. AB at 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 vs those guys at 31, 32, 33, 34, 35...

They are taking AB 10/10. So am I.

What kind of career are you envisioning for AB with what you've seen so far? What's the comp in your eyes?

I'm still a big fan of AB but I'm a magic fan first and winning ONE championship is more important than romanticizing about building some sort of epic dynasty that has a low percentage chance of materializing.

I'm not giving up on AB but if a deal is available for a young guy like the ones I've mentioned, you have to consider it. AB is not Paolo. He is not untouchable.

A bigger George Hill with better defense?

If he develops offensive skills that Hill had that Black hasn't shown at all, then sure!!

You can make this kind of nonsensical wishful comparison about any player though.

Mac Mcclung will be the next James Harden as soon as he grows four more inches, develops Harden's physique, develops a the foul drawing skills, iq and scoring skills that Harden had that no other player really ever developed, and yea it will happen though!!

[DiplomaticMagic]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

[eyriq]

What kind of career are you envisioning for AB with what you've seen so far? What's the comp in your eyes?

I'm still a big fan of AB but I'm a magic fan first and winning ONE championship is more important than romanticizing about building some sort of epic dynasty that has a low percentage chance of materializing.

I'm not giving up on AB but if a deal is available for a young guy like the ones I've mentioned, you have to consider it. AB is not Paolo. He is not untouchable.

A bigger George Hill with better defense?

If he develops offensive skills that Hill had that Black hasn't shown at all, then sure!!

You can make this kind of nonsensical wishful comparison about any player though.

Mac Mcclung will be the next James Harden as soon as he grows four more inches, develops Harden's physique, develops a the foul drawing skills, iq and scoring skills that Harden had that no other player really ever developed, and yea it will happen though!!

I'm talking about a rookie 6th pick that already plays like an older George Hill, and you're talking about comparing a G-Leaguer to one of the best players of all time. I think you overreacted a bit here.

[The-Stallion70]

A bigger George Hill with better defense?

If he develops offensive skills that Hill had that Black hasn't shown at all, then sure!!

You can make this kind of nonsensical wishful comparison about any player though.

Mac Mcclung will be the next James Harden as soon as he grows four more inches, develops Harden's physique, develops a the foul drawing skills, iq and scoring skills that Harden had that no other player really ever developed, and yea it will happen though!!

I'm talking about a rookie 6th pick that already plays like an older George Hill, and you're talking about comparing a G-Leaguer to one of the best players of all time. I think you overreacted a bit here.

Black has barely shown anything offensively, let's get real here bro

You missed my point in bringing up Mcclung anyways, you could say any player could turn into any other player once they just develop skills or abilities that they haven't shown before.

Donald Trump will be the next JFK as soon as he becomes.... just like JFK

So you see what I mean?

[The-Stallion70]

Hilarious I'm a grown man being called "kiddo" anyway I'm not worried about what other teams are doing or have done with their rooks .....i tend to not try and cry over spilled milk, what's done is done... I want to try and see whatever they saw in AB.....im not trying to convince anyone why I like what I've seen out of AB.... I like his foundation, the size and work ethic... Honestly I thought the plan was for BOTH AB and jett to be in the G league but the injuries changed that and he was thrown into the fire when he probably wasn't supposed to....

Me personally you can look up my post history at the time I'm on record saying that I didn't care who we get we have paolo and Franz already.... I wasn't high on this draft class beside wemby.... So I thought no matter who we got I doubt they'd be stars... My expectations coming in were tempered so for AB to be doing what he's doing now is meeting and somewhat exceeding what I expected for a rookie.... He's playing his role, I can live with that...even though I think there is more to his game than he's allowed to show especially when it comes to pick and roll.... Then again markelle is more or less in the same role, dribble the ball past half court then pass it to franz or paolo then stand in the corner or the dunkers spot.....Fultz has a bit more freedom to call his own number but that's what mose wants... I'm cool with that

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

I don't want to make too long of a post because I'm not sure we're really getting anywhere but I just think you're wrong.

Many teams intentionally tank their season and end up with the sixth pick. The sixth pick is your consolation and chance at making the team better when it performs poorly. We shouldn't let the fact that we had Paolo and Franz make us feel better about voluntarily blowing our top pick.

There is an opportunity cost to not striking when the iron is hot, or not taking the better talent when the rare opportunity is available, as it is when you pick sixth.

Ours is not situation like the 2004 Detroit Pistons when they took Darko Milicic over Wade, Carmelo and Bosh because they didn't want to disrupt team chemistry and won a championship the following year.

They still missed out on HOF talents but did win a chip and had basically the best team in the East.

Still, how good could they have been if they had taken Wade Bosh or Melo? Could have they been a dynasty?

Stallion it seems like you're making an assumption that there was some other great pick we could have made at #6. I'm not sure who there was, Jarace Walker? Now at #11 I would have definitely picked Gradey Dick over Jett Howard. Probably should have traded picks.

Gradey hasn't done anything special, not sure why you're still on his predraft hype train

We blew it by not taking Cam Whitmore and or the kid in Utah. This much is obvious if you did any kind of research whatsoever.

[The-Stallion70]

Lol. Raja Bell was 24 in his rookie season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

You keep using this age argument and referenced AG before but AG's shooting mechanics didn't appear mechanical and unnatural when he was 19. He also wasn't a point guard.

Remember Gordon's 2015 Summer where he came out nailing shots all over the place? Let's just say I'm not expecting Black to do that at all. Black appears to labor through his shooting motion, he doesn't appear natural at all.

The sense I get from him when he shoots is he's like "I'm only doing this because I have to".

Well age needs to be brought in in terms of where we expect a player to be, as well as the likelihood of improvement vs efficiency gains. AB / AG were drafted relatively young and AG developed into a fine NBA player.

Comparing a rookie season by itself. I would argue especially if the different is "teens" vs "twenties" would make a huge difference on the product seen on the floor and projection. I do not think that is just me.

Usually people tend to bring up the age argument if they don't really know how to scout.

It's not really that different from a purely deductive logic perspective to simply state that each college player will develop into a great pro, just because they're younger than current pros.

Do you see how lazy that is?

[The-Stallion70]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

I'm curious if you could attempt to put your irrational Fultz hate into words.

I'm not saying I think he's a great player because I don't but he does appear to be a scapegoat and receive an undue amount of irrational hate.

Meanwhile Suggs, who I suppose many like just because he plays hard, is touted as some sort of God. All it takes it one injury or for his shot to fall off and his upcoming deal could hold the team back for years of we overpay.

The Magic are about to have $400M+ tied up with Paolo and Franz over the next five years, we need to be very careful and judicious with how we spend the rest of the cap.

[pepe1991]

Where does idea of George Hill as some great player comes from? His biggest life achivment in basketball was one trowaway line from Popovich who called him his favorite player, than packed his bags and shipped him to Indiana for a pick that turned into Kawhi.

Aside from that he spent near 50% of career as bench player and his career numbers are 10 ppg, 3 apg.

He only had one season where his offense wasn't offensive in terms of volumen and his playmaking was next to non existing majority of his career.

Popovich in 2010 figured he can't be playmaker on serious team, started him in playoffs and played him 100% off ball. Guy averaged 0,7 assists a game in playoffs,
Next year he took step forward and figured he can't play him as starter all together. By the end of 2011 season he was flying in trade.

[GelbeWand09]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

I'm curious if you could attempt to put your irrational Fultz hate into words.

I'm not saying I think he's a great player because I don't but he does appear to be a scapegoat and receive an undue amount of irrational hate.

Meanwhile Suggs, who I suppose many like just because he plays hard, is touted as some sort of God. All it takes it one injury or for his shot to fall off and his upcoming deal could hold the team back for years of we overpay.

The Magic are about to have $400M+ tied up with Paolo and Franz over the next five years, we need to be very careful and judicious with how we spend the rest of the cap.

Kinda strange argument. Any player can get injured at any time.

I see no indication that his shooting becomes much worse too. He already shot around that % the last 2 months of last season. His % is not only 39% for this season alone, its almost 39% over the last 90 games (he only played 156 games so far) on good volume (7apg).
+ He is liked by many not just because he plays hard. Because he is ELITE at one side of the game. Thats a gigantic difference to a player like Fultz, even from last season. Fultz even before this season wasnt elite at anything. He was a bottom starting PG for 1 season at his peak and is now barely a rotation player.

There are things to dislike about Jalen (ballhandling, decision making) sure. But thats the reason he wont get near the max. But a elite defender & who shoots 39% from 3, while offering a lot additional intangibles (emotional leadership, hustle plays, contagious energy), is just a keeper.

[AdamTheGreek]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

I think Monk has way more balance to his game than Ross ever did. When you’re a bench guy, streakiness comes with the territory. If he was super consistent, he’d be a starter every game.

[RookieStar]

I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...

[cedric76]

[quote="RookieStar"]I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...[/quote

And from Duke AND should be far cheaper

[tiderulz]

I don't want to make too long of a post because I'm not sure we're really getting anywhere but I just think you're wrong.

Many teams intentionally tank their season and end up with the sixth pick. The sixth pick is your consolation and chance at making the team better when it performs poorly. We shouldn't let the fact that we had Paolo and Franz make us feel better about voluntarily blowing our top pick.

There is an opportunity cost to not striking when the iron is hot, or not taking the better talent when the rare opportunity is available, as it is when you pick sixth.

Ours is not situation like the 2004 Detroit Pistons when they took Darko Milicic over Wade, Carmelo and Bosh because they didn't want to disrupt team chemistry and won a championship the following year.

They still missed out on HOF talents but did win a chip and had basically the best team in the East.

Still, how good could they have been if they had taken Wade Bosh or Melo? Could have they been a dynasty?

Stallion it seems like you're making an assumption that there was some other great pick we could have made at #6. I'm not sure who there was, Jarace Walker? Now at #11 I would have definitely picked Gradey Dick over Jett Howard. Probably should have traded picks.

Gradey hasn't done anything special, not sure why you're still on his predraft hype train

We blew it by not taking Cam Whitmore and or the kid in Utah. This much is obvious if you did any kind of research whatsoever.

Whitemore is a black hole on offense and not a good defender. George is struggling shooting from the field and absolutely horrible on defense. his only saving grace is shooting avearge (35%) from 3.

[The-Stallion70]

Stallion it seems like you're making an assumption that there was some other great pick we could have made at #6. I'm not sure who there was, Jarace Walker? Now at #11 I would have definitely picked Gradey Dick over Jett Howard. Probably should have traded picks.

Gradey hasn't done anything special, not sure why you're still on his predraft hype train

We blew it by not taking Cam Whitmore and or the kid in Utah. This much is obvious if you did any kind of research whatsoever.

Whitemore is a black hole on offense and not a good defender. George is struggling shooting from the field and absolutely horrible on defense. his only saving grace is shooting avearge (35%) from 3.

And you're saying you'd rather have Black before those two guys? We also missed out on Jaquez.

[The-Stallion70]

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

I'm curious if you could attempt to put your irrational Fultz hate into words.

I'm not saying I think he's a great player because I don't but he does appear to be a scapegoat and receive an undue amount of irrational hate.

Meanwhile Suggs, who I suppose many like just because he plays hard, is touted as some sort of God. All it takes it one injury or for his shot to fall off and his upcoming deal could hold the team back for years of we overpay.

The Magic are about to have $400M+ tied up with Paolo and Franz over the next five years, we need to be very careful and judicious with how we spend the rest of the cap.

Kinda strange argument. Any player can get injured at any time.

I see no indication that his shooting becomes much worse too. He already shot around that % the last 2 months of last season. His % is not only 39% for this season alone, its almost 39% over the last 90 games (he only played 156 games so far) on good volume (7apg).
+ He is liked by many not just because he plays hard. Because he is ELITE at one side of the game. Thats a gigantic difference to a player like Fultz, even from last season. Fultz even before this season wasnt elite at anything. He was a bottom starting PG for 1 season at his peak and is now barely a rotation player.

There are things to dislike about Jalen (ballhandling, decision making) sure. But thats the reason he wont get near the max. But a elite defender & who shoots 39% from 3, while offering a lot additional intangibles (emotional leadership, hustle plays, contagious energy), is just a keeper.

The argument is not strange at all if you think about it. Suggs plays a very reckless style and has had a number of injuries so far in his career. Any player could get hurt, true, but its not irrational to suspect that his reckless style could make him more prone to an injury. You have to take note of that before handing out contracts.

The irrational Jalen love goes further than that.

Last year Markelle averaged more points than Suggs despite not being able to shoot at all and yet people are willing to turn the blind eye to that but somehow Suggs 12 ppg this year is somehow some kind of transformational breakout.

This is the first year where Suggs has shot it well and he basically had to develop an outside shot because he doesn't have much else to fall back on offensively. I doubt he could average 14 ppg like Markelle did if he loses his ability to shoot, like Markelle did.

You also must be completely joking in suggesting that Suggs' extension would be anywhere near the max.

Austin Reaves/Bruce Brown money. That's where Jalen is at.

Also, to suggest that Suggs would get anywhere near the max is complete insanity. This is the kind of insanity I'm talking about. To suggest that Suggs has had anywhere near the impact of Paolo or Franz(who will get max deals) is just wrong and stupid.

I really hope you're not suggesting that we had to talk ourselves out of giving an injury prone 12 ppg 3 and D guard the max lol.

[pepe1991]

Imo we will need playmaker who can actually run some offense in playoffs but also get his when needed.

Suggs improved as shooter once he ( we? )gave up on idea he can ever be more than 3 and D player like Lu Dort /Ayo and we stopped playing him on ball all together.
It's not like he is putting up 20 a game. He is 110th player in scoring. Pretty much all his looks are wide open.
We are 4-1 without him it's not like anything special happends when he doesn't play. People tend to overrate what he does. Today his game is pretty much poor man Gary Harris from Nuggets days ( comparing 3rd year vs 3rd year).

In playoffs guards need to do more than just wait for ball to find them.

Last year in playoffs those were unassisted percentages of FG scored by players:
Butler 65%
Vincent 58%
Brogdon 50%
Murray 63%
Russell 51%


Now this is Magic regualr season scoring unassisted:
Black 21%
Suggs 35%
Gary Harris 12%

Only players who actually create own shots are Fultz and Cole. With Fultz being broken and Cole being limited due his size.

I think lot of people will look at Magic players with different perspective once they see them being "trapped" in playoff settings when teams put real defense in front of them. Right now, imo, we ride our energy and play above our heads. Execlly how Memphis team won 50+ games back to back, just to get torn apart in playoffs by more methodic teams.

So if you want Suggs to be your SG, you better find PG who is creative and capable of scoring on his own.

[The-Stallion70]

I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...[/quote

And from Duke AND should be far cheaper

Who cares if he went to Duke?

[RookieStar]

I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...[/quote

And from Duke AND should be far cheaper

Yup Duke and the BROTHERHOOD