Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[Bergmaniac]

I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...

Monk is a better playmaker which is something this team needs badly. He is also significantly better at creating his own shot and this is even more noticeable in the playoffs. I distinctly remember the Bucks - Celtics series in 2022 when Middleton was out so Grayson had to play more minutes against starters and just couldn't create any shots for himself against the Boston defence. He shot 7.7% on pull-ups in that series. That's not a typo. He just couldn't score at all except when someone created an open look for him, he was just completely unable to create any decent looks for himself. While the low percentage may have been a fluke somewhat, the more important thing is the low volume. In a 7 game series where he played 26 MPG Allen took a total of 13 pull-up shots. And he had a total of 4 unassisted baskets the whole series. In last year's playoffs he had 0 unassisted baskets. Yes, he only played 5 games, but still, 0 unassisted baskets in 150 minutes is not great to put it mildly. Monk had 20 unassisted baskets in the playoffs last season, which was the majority of his shots.

[Skybox]

Gradey hasn't done anything special, not sure why you're still on his predraft hype train

We blew it by not taking Cam Whitmore and or the kid in Utah. This much is obvious if you did any kind of research whatsoever.

Whitemore is a black hole on offense and not a good defender. George is struggling shooting from the field and absolutely horrible on defense. his only saving grace is shooting avearge (35%) from 3.

And you're saying you'd rather have Black before those two guys? We also missed out on Jaquez.

If we’re picking this year (I hope we’re trading not picking), Jacquez is a good model. Not some pie in the sky “if this, this, and this happen- he’ll be able to contribute in 3 years” prospect. I hope we look to predictable, projectable upperclassmen that can step in and contribute- even if they have a lower ceiling. When the money starts flowing to Paolo, Franz, and whatever backcourt stud we trade for (or sign), we’re going to really value cost-controlled, heady, reliable role players to take over for Ingles (for example) and fill out our rotation.

[eyriq]

Black, to me personally, is properly rated by most and incredibly overrated by select few.

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

I'm curious if you could attempt to put your irrational Fultz hate into words.

I'm not saying I think he's a great player because I don't but he does appear to be a scapegoat and receive an undue amount of irrational hate.

Meanwhile Suggs, who I suppose many like just because he plays hard, is touted as some sort of God. All it takes it one injury or for his shot to fall off and his upcoming deal could hold the team back for years of we overpay.

The Magic are about to have $400M+ tied up with Paolo and Franz over the next five years, we need to be very careful and judicious with how we spend the rest of the cap.

In words: damaged goods, injury prone, injured, limited skills, no upside, mid impact.

Is that irrational?

[Skybox]

I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...

Monk is a better playmaker which is something this team needs badly. He is also significantly better at creating his own shot and this is even more noticeable in the playoffs. I distinctly remember the Bucks - Celtics series in 2022 when Middleton was out so Grayson had to play more minutes against starters and just couldn't create any shots for himself against the Boston defence. He shot 7.7% on pull-ups in that series. That's not a typo. He just couldn't score at all except when someone created an open look for him, he was just completely unable to create any decent looks for himself. While the low percentage may have been a fluke somewhat, the more important thing is the low volume. In a 7 game series where he played 26 MPG Allen took a total of 13 shots pull-up shots. And he had a total of 4 unassisted baskets the whole series. In last year's playoffs he had 0 unassisted baskets. Yes, he only played 5 games, but still, 0 unassisted baskets in 150 minutes is not great to put it mildly. Monk had 20 unassisted baskets in the playoffs last season, which was the majority of his shots.

Agree…I’d be happy to add a hard nosed, deadeye shooter like Grayson, but we need offensive creation along with spot up shooting in our impotent backcourt. That’s just not him…we’ve rationalized Suggs the PG, to an extent, but Grayson is not remotely a creator in an offense lacking 3 All-Star scoring machines.

This is not an off-season to tinker…we need a big change in our offensive capabilities. I’m not sure Monk’s the guy - but he’s definitely the “type”. Simons, Murray, Monk, and even Brogdon would immediately lead our team in assists- while still accepting second or third chair position in the offense. I honestly think our best vision (if we’re to be more than playoff pretenders) is Franz as third man, but still dominating games on a weekly basis, as opportunity presents. His 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, and ball movement could all be more refined…much more Pippen than Jordan. The scoring guard could be a lesser all-around player than Franz (and Paolo) but still score 20+ ppg. All 3 could average 5+ assists in a functional offense - replacing this extremely limited “you go, I go” non-scheme that were mostly seeing now.

[orlando_joe]

I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...

Monk is a better playmaker which is something this team needs badly. He is also significantly better at creating his own shot and this is even more noticeable in the playoffs. I distinctly remember the Bucks - Celtics series in 2022 when Middleton was out so Grayson had to play more minutes against starters and just couldn't create any shots for himself against the Boston defence. He shot 7.7% on pull-ups in that series. That's not a typo. He just couldn't score at all except when someone created an open look for him, he was just completely unable to create any decent looks for himself. While the low percentage may have been a fluke somewhat, the more important thing is the low volume. In a 7 game series where he played 26 MPG Allen took a total of 13 shots pull-up shots. And he had a total of 4 unassisted baskets the whole series. In last year's playoffs he had 0 unassisted baskets. Yes, he only played 5 games, but still, 0 unassisted baskets in 150 minutes is not great to put it mildly. Monk had 20 unassisted baskets in the playoffs last season, which was the majority of his shots.

Agree…I’d be happy to add a hard nosed, deadeye shooter like Grayson, but we need offensive creation along with spot up shooting in our impotent backcourt. That’s just not him…we’ve rationalized Suggs the PG, to an extent, but Grayson is not remotely a creator in an offense lacking 3 All-Star scoring machines.

This is not an off-season to tinker…we need a big change in our offensive capabilities. I’m not sure Monk’s the guy - but he’s definitely the “type”. Simons, Murray, Monk, and even Brogdon would immediately lead our team in assists- while still accepting second or third chair position in the offense. I honestly think our best vision (if we’re to be more than playoff pretenders) is Franz as third man, but still dominating games on a weekly basis, as opportunity presents. His 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, and ball movement could all be more refined…much more Pippen than Jordan. The scoring guard could be a lesser all-around player than Franz (and Paolo) but still score 20+ ppg. All 3 could average 5+ assists in a functional offense - replacing this extremely limited “you go, I go” non-scheme that were mostly seeing now.

lead team in assists ..only if plan is to take ball out of franz and paolo hands ..that is the way they score they are not spot up shooters ..so could backfire and really hurt both players they are doubled for what they do with ball in hands not standing outside 3pt line...just a thought....thats why i would love bridges..lol

[Skybox]

Monk is a better playmaker which is something this team needs badly. He is also significantly better at creating his own shot and this is even more noticeable in the playoffs. I distinctly remember the Bucks - Celtics series in 2022 when Middleton was out so Grayson had to play more minutes against starters and just couldn't create any shots for himself against the Boston defence. He shot 7.7% on pull-ups in that series. That's not a typo. He just couldn't score at all except when someone created an open look for him, he was just completely unable to create any decent looks for himself. While the low percentage may have been a fluke somewhat, the more important thing is the low volume. In a 7 game series where he played 26 MPG Allen took a total of 13 shots pull-up shots. And he had a total of 4 unassisted baskets the whole series. In last year's playoffs he had 0 unassisted baskets. Yes, he only played 5 games, but still, 0 unassisted baskets in 150 minutes is not great to put it mildly. Monk had 20 unassisted baskets in the playoffs last season, which was the majority of his shots.

Agree…I’d be happy to add a hard nosed, deadeye shooter like Grayson, but we need offensive creation along with spot up shooting in our impotent backcourt. That’s just not him…we’ve rationalized Suggs the PG, to an extent, but Grayson is not remotely a creator in an offense lacking 3 All-Star scoring machines.

This is not an off-season to tinker…we need a big change in our offensive capabilities. I’m not sure Monk’s the guy - but he’s definitely the “type”. Simons, Murray, Monk, and even Brogdon would immediately lead our team in assists- while still accepting second or third chair position in the offense. I honestly think our best vision (if we’re to be more than playoff pretenders) is Franz as third man, but still dominating games on a weekly basis, as opportunity presents. His 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, and ball movement could all be more refined…much more Pippen than Jordan. The scoring guard could be a lesser all-around player than Franz (and Paolo) but still score 20+ ppg. All 3 could average 5+ assists in a functional offense - replacing this extremely limited “you go, I go” non-scheme that were mostly seeing now.

lead team in assists ..only if plan is to take ball out of franz and paolo hands ..that is the way they score they are not spot up shooters ..so could backfire and really hurt both players they are doubled for what they do with ball in hands not standing outside 3pt line...just a thought....thats why i would love bridges..lol

In my opinion, people are taking the idea of giving Paolo & Franz some much-needed help on the offensive end to a ridiculous conclusion. We can only go so far just handing the ball to them every night and standing aside. Every great player will flourish with other great players...taking shots away is a fallacy. I'm definitely not talking about John Stockton or Chris Paul gathering every dribble and every assist every night - all of my suggestions are guys that would probably be considered pure SGs in a prior NBA era. It's easy to see the limitations of our offense and our roster right now. Adding spot up shooters is always good, but still a limited gain - because NOBODY is hot every night from range...I think Paolo would appreciate an occasional easy dunk because his cover had to close out on someone. Just because you can beat 2 or 3 guys in iso doesn't mean that's the recipe for sustainable success...having those capabilities in your pocket are what separate good from great at crunch time. But doing it all game is stoppable. Paolo will age very quickly if he's got to bang his way past half the team just to hit difficult turnaround jumpers for half of his points, just to keep ORL in the game. There's a reason we rarely blow bad teams out, despite our apparent superiority...depth of offensive firepower is what can keep all of the critical guys strong all season and beyond.

[eyriq]

We are a below average offense because we are below average at shooting and ball control. Both Franz (.530) and Paolo (.501) are below average (.547 eFG%) shooters. They will improve and our shooting will improve organically as a result. Cole (.489) and Fultz (.482) are outright terrible here but we've invested three lotto picks into upgrades already.

Ingles (18.2%), Suggs (15.4%), Cole (13.3%), Fultz (12.6%), and Paolo (12.6%) are all below average in ball control (12.1 TOV%).

I think Paolo and Suggs will continue to improve here and we can make some moves to improve ball control on the bench.

Trading Cole and bringing in Tyus Jones is really tempting.

[RichCollab]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

We got Ross at the end of his career. Monk is ready to hit peak.

[eyriq]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

We got Ross at the end of his career. Monk is ready to hit peak.

Monk is below average in shooting and ball control. Will he really help this offense?

[RichCollab]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

We got Ross at the end of his career. Monk is ready to hit peak.

Monk is below average in shooting and ball control. Will he really help this offense?

Monk has averaged 5 assists to 2 TO. He is shooting 45% 37% 80%. We already have 3 ball handlers in the starting lineup. We are replacing Fultz.

I don’t think there is a better option. Monk can move to 2nd unit if ever needed. He is 26.

[eyriq]

We got Ross at the end of his career. Monk is ready to hit peak.

Monk is below average in shooting and ball control. Will he really help this offense?

Monk has averaged 5 assists to 2 TO. He is shooting 45% 37% 80%. We already have 3 ball handlers in the starting lineup. We are replacing Fultz.

I don’t think there is a better option. Monk can move to 2nd unit if ever needed. He is 26.

We like him over Tyus?

[pepe1991]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

We got Ross at the end of his career. Monk is ready to hit peak.

Monk is below average in shooting and ball control. Will he really help this offense?

If e can average as many assists as he does with Kings,he would be our assist leader

and i personally like him more than Jones.

Jones just lacks any athletic pop. Against stronger defense his only purpose is to pass ball around, because he can't get anywhere on his own. Magic already have enough guards who can't dribble once they get a ball. Or can't shoot. Or can't attack rim.


Jones playoff experience from last year was brutal.

[RichCollab]

Monk is below average in shooting and ball control. Will he really help this offense?

Monk has averaged 5 assists to 2 TO. He is shooting 45% 37% 80%. We already have 3 ball handlers in the starting lineup. We are replacing Fultz.

I don’t think there is a better option. Monk can move to 2nd unit if ever needed. He is 26.

We like him over Tyus?

Tyus is 2” shorter and actually needs the ball in his hands more.

I’m lukewarm on Tyus.

[Bergmaniac]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

We got Ross at the end of his career. Monk is ready to hit peak.

We got Ross when he was two weeks younger than Monk is right now.

But he was a quite different player from Monk, he never had the ballhandling ability to take full advantage of his impressive athleticism and was never much of a passer. He was great at hitting difficult shots but offered very little else offensively.

[RichCollab]

Some people want us to target Malik Monk. But hes too much like Terrence Ross to me. One game he will have 38 pts, the next he will have 8. We need someone more consistent.

We got Ross at the end of his career. Monk is ready to hit peak.

We got Ross when he was two weeks younger than Monk is right now.

But he was a quite different player from Monk, he never had the ballhandling ability to take full advantage of his impressive athleticism and was never much of a passer. He was great at hitting difficult shots but offered very little else offensively.

Yeah. I was way off on age.

[RichCollab]

Monk has averaged 5 assists to 2 TO. He is shooting 45% 37% 80%. We already have 3 ball handlers in the starting lineup. We are replacing Fultz.

I don’t think there is a better option. Monk can move to 2nd unit if ever needed. He is 26.

We like him over Tyus?

Tyus is 2” shorter and actually needs the ball in his hands more.

I’m lukewarm on Tyus.

LOL. Monk has higher usage rate than Tyus. I’m spreading lies everywhere.

[orlando_joe]

Agree…I’d be happy to add a hard nosed, deadeye shooter like Grayson, but we need offensive creation along with spot up shooting in our impotent backcourt. That’s just not him…we’ve rationalized Suggs the PG, to an extent, but Grayson is not remotely a creator in an offense lacking 3 All-Star scoring machines.

This is not an off-season to tinker…we need a big change in our offensive capabilities. I’m not sure Monk’s the guy - but he’s definitely the “type”. Simons, Murray, Monk, and even Brogdon would immediately lead our team in assists- while still accepting second or third chair position in the offense. I honestly think our best vision (if we’re to be more than playoff pretenders) is Franz as third man, but still dominating games on a weekly basis, as opportunity presents. His 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, and ball movement could all be more refined…much more Pippen than Jordan. The scoring guard could be a lesser all-around player than Franz (and Paolo) but still score 20+ ppg. All 3 could average 5+ assists in a functional offense - replacing this extremely limited “you go, I go” non-scheme that were mostly seeing now.

lead team in assists ..only if plan is to take ball out of franz and paolo hands ..that is the way they score they are not spot up shooters ..so could backfire and really hurt both players they are doubled for what they do with ball in hands not standing outside 3pt line...just a thought....thats why i would love bridges..lol

In my opinion, people are taking the idea of giving Paolo & Franz some much-needed help on the offensive end to a ridiculous conclusion. We can only go so far just handing the ball to them every night and standing aside. Every great player will flourish with other great players...taking shots away is a fallacy. I'm definitely not talking about John Stockton or Chris Paul gathering every dribble and every assist every night - all of my suggestions are guys that would probably be considered pure SGs in a prior NBA era. It's easy to see the limitations of our offense and our roster right now. Adding spot up shooters is always good, but still a limited gain - because NOBODY is hot every night from range...I think Paolo would appreciate an occasional easy dunk because his cover had to close out on someone. Just because you can beat 2 or 3 guys in iso doesn't mean that's the recipe for sustainable success...having those capabilities in your pocket are what separate good from great at crunch time. But doing it all game is stoppable. Paolo will age very quickly if he's got to bang his way past half the team just to hit difficult turnaround jumpers for half of his points, just to keep ORL in the game. There's a reason we rarely blow bad teams out, despite our apparent superiority...depth of offensive firepower is what can keep all of the critical guys strong all season and beyond.

i just dont like it at cost of a LOT of defense and big usage numbers on high volume bad defender that can ruin what team is good at and reason they are winning..improvment in 3pt % with volume from franz,paolo and black that should come with experience could be answer just as much and also applies to bench depth whole team is still young

[Knightro]

My sense, and this is just a feeling, but my sense is that the Magic will skew more towards veteran players on shorter deals (similar to what they did with Ingles) this summer rather than paying big money on a longer deal to get someone who fits the age window more.

Like I think if they had the choice of going 2/80 for Jrue or 4/90 for Monk, they would opt to overpay the veteran on a short contract since the money would be coming off the books before Paolo was on a supermax, instead of tying up their money for longer.

[basketballRob]

I have a feeling that Grayson would mesh better with the team. He has experience playing a role with great players, and he's really good at it. Phoenix has until March 27th to extend him.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[RichCollab]

My sense, and this is just a feeling, but my sense is that the Magic will skew more towards veteran players on shorter deals (similar to what they did with Ingles) this summer rather than paying big money on a longer to get someone who fits the age window more.

Like I think if they had the choice of going 2/80 for Jrue or 4/90 for Monk, they would opt to overpay the veteran on a short contract since the money would be coming off the books before Paolo was on a supermax, instead of tying up their money for longer.

We have 30 million coming off the books with Fultz and Harris.

I’m not sure the impact of our salary cap by giving Monk 22.5. Front load it?

Paolo is 1# priority so we shouldn’t make any moves that impact his max.

Same with Franz 2#, no moves should impact the money we give him.

Suggs has locked his place in the core for me, so giving him his money makes a lot of sense.

Do we need to keep some flexibility if JI can have his healthiest season for us next season? Or if JI legit seems healthy will we be priced out?