Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[BCS]

lead team in assists ..only if plan is to take ball out of franz and paolo hands ..that is the way they score they are not spot up shooters ..so could backfire and really hurt both players they are doubled for what they do with ball in hands not standing outside 3pt line...just a thought....thats why i would love bridges..lol

In my opinion, people are taking the idea of giving Paolo & Franz some much-needed help on the offensive end to a ridiculous conclusion. We can only go so far just handing the ball to them every night and standing aside. Every great player will flourish with other great players...taking shots away is a fallacy. I'm definitely not talking about John Stockton or Chris Paul gathering every dribble and every assist every night - all of my suggestions are guys that would probably be considered pure SGs in a prior NBA era. It's easy to see the limitations of our offense and our roster right now. Adding spot up shooters is always good, but still a limited gain - because NOBODY is hot every night from range...I think Paolo would appreciate an occasional easy dunk because his cover had to close out on someone. Just because you can beat 2 or 3 guys in iso doesn't mean that's the recipe for sustainable success...having those capabilities in your pocket are what separate good from great at crunch time. But doing it all game is stoppable. Paolo will age very quickly if he's got to bang his way past half the team just to hit difficult turnaround jumpers for half of his points, just to keep ORL in the game. There's a reason we rarely blow bad teams out, despite our apparent superiority...depth of offensive firepower is what can keep all of the critical guys strong all season and beyond.

i just dont like it at cost of a LOT of defense and big usage numbers on high volume bad defender that can ruin what team is good at and reason they are winning..improvment in 3pt % with volume from franz,paolo and black that should come with experience could be answer just as much and also applies to bench depth whole team is still young

I agree on not having too many defensive liabilities out on the court, the reason I prefer to move on from Cole. Imo, Monk is an improvement over Cole but having both playing together just doesn't make sense to me, so I view it as one or the other.

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[RichCollab]

I have a feeling that Grayson would mesh better with the team. He's has experience playing a role with great players, and he's really good at it. Phoenix has until March 27th to extend him.

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I think Monks athletic ability is pretty important. You leave him to double Paolo or Franz he can punish you multiple ways.

[Knightro]

We have 30 million coming off the books with Fultz and Harris.

I’m not sure the impact of our salary cap by giving Monk 22.5. Front load it?

Paolo is 1# priority so we shouldn’t make any moves that impact his max.

Same with Franz 2#, no moves should impact the money we give him.

Suggs has locked his place in the core for me, so giving him his money makes a lot of sense.

Do we need to keep some flexibility if JI can have his healthiest season for us next season? Or if JI legit seems healthy will we be priced out?

The Magic are actually in a bit of an interesting spot this summer.

They have so much money coming off the books (38M when you include Chuma and Goga) that they have to spend money just to hit the salary floor. So they'll have to be active either in free agency or the trade market adding salary.

But I doubt they want to spend a lot money long-term because A. there might not be anyone worth giving a long-term deal to and B. they know Franz, Suggs and Paolo are all about to get significant pay increases over the next couple of years.

I think a short-term deal for a Jrue or a Klay, a veteran that you feel relatively confident will be able to maintain their current level of play over the next 2 years, is something they're definitely going to explore. Help the team in the short term with short-term dollars that have to spent regardless without damaging anything in the long term.

[RichCollab]

We have 30 million coming off the books with Fultz and Harris.

I’m not sure the impact of our salary cap by giving Monk 22.5. Front load it?

Paolo is 1# priority so we shouldn’t make any moves that impact his max.

Same with Franz 2#, no moves should impact the money we give him.

Suggs has locked his place in the core for me, so giving him his money makes a lot of sense.

Do we need to keep some flexibility if JI can have his healthiest season for us next season? Or if JI legit seems healthy will we be priced out?

The Magic are actually in a bit of an interesting spot this summer.

They have so much money coming off the books (38M when you include Chuma and Goga) that they have to spend money just to hit the salary floor. So they'll have to be active either in free agency or the trade market adding salary.

But I doubt they want to spend a lot money long-term because A. there might not be anyone worth giving a long-term deal to and B. they know Franz, Suggs and Paolo are all about to get significant pay increases over the next couple of years.

I think a short-term deal for a Jrue or a Klay, a veteran that you feel relatively confident will be able to maintain their current level of play over the next 2 years, is something they're definitely going to explore. Help the team in the short term with short-term dollars that have to spent regardless without damaging anything in the long term.

I’m not great at salary cap management but I thought locking in longer contracts made sense because once you pay your Rookie Players their second contract you have no ability to add players.

It’s easier and less impactful to your tax if you resign your rookies?

[Knightro]

We have 30 million coming off the books with Fultz and Harris.

I’m not sure the impact of our salary cap by giving Monk 22.5. Front load it?

Paolo is 1# priority so we shouldn’t make any moves that impact his max.

Same with Franz 2#, no moves should impact the money we give him.

Suggs has locked his place in the core for me, so giving him his money makes a lot of sense.

Do we need to keep some flexibility if JI can have his healthiest season for us next season? Or if JI legit seems healthy will we be priced out?

The Magic are actually in a bit of an interesting spot this summer.

They have so much money coming off the books (38M when you include Chuma and Goga) that they have to spend money just to hit the salary floor. So they'll have to be active either in free agency or the trade market adding salary.

But I doubt they want to spend a lot money long-term because A. there might not be anyone worth giving a long-term deal to and B. they know Franz, Suggs and Paolo are all about to get significant pay increases over the next couple of years.

I think a short-term deal for a Jrue or a Klay, a veteran that you feel relatively confident will be able to maintain their current level of play over the next 2 years, is something they're definitely going to explore. Help the team in the short term with short-term dollars that have to spent regardless without damaging anything in the long term.

I’m not great at salary cap management but I thought locking in longer contracts made sense because once you pay your Rookie Players their second contract you have no ability to add players.

It’s easier and less impactful to your tax if you resign your rookies?

You aren't wrong. Once the money is gone, the money is gone.

Typically the way team roster building works in terms of order of operations.

1. Hit on multiple draft picks
2. While those picks are on cost controlled contract use cap flexibility/additional trade assets to improve roster around draft picks
3 Exceed the soft salary cap to extend draft pick's contract using bird rights

Step 1 is the hardest part and ultimately the Magic have accomplished that. So in that respect, the Magic are far ahead of a lot of other teams.

But that said, the Magic aren't quite to step 3 yet (although it gets closer literally by the day) and because of that, I'm not sure they're ready to commit to step 2 just yet.

They seem content to ride out the development of their young guys as long as humanly possible before they actually push any chips to the middle of the table and go for it.

[RichCollab]

The Magic are actually in a bit of an interesting spot this summer.

They have so much money coming off the books (38M when you include Chuma and Goga) that they have to spend money just to hit the salary floor. So they'll have to be active either in free agency or the trade market adding salary.

But I doubt they want to spend a lot money long-term because A. there might not be anyone worth giving a long-term deal to and B. they know Franz, Suggs and Paolo are all about to get significant pay increases over the next couple of years.

I think a short-term deal for a Jrue or a Klay, a veteran that you feel relatively confident will be able to maintain their current level of play over the next 2 years, is something they're definitely going to explore. Help the team in the short term with short-term dollars that have to spent regardless without damaging anything in the long term.

I’m not great at salary cap management but I thought locking in longer contracts made sense because once you pay your Rookie Players their second contract you have no ability to add players.

It’s easier and less impactful to your tax if you resign your rookies?

You aren't wrong. Once the money is gone, the money is gone.

Typically the way team roster building works in terms of order of operations.

1. Hit on multiple draft picks
2. While those picks are on cost controlled contract use cap flexibility/additional trade assets to improve roster around draft picks
3 Exceed the soft salary cap to extend draft pick's contract using bird rights

Step 1 is the hardest part and ultimately the Magic have accomplished that. So in that respect, the Magic are far ahead of a lot of other teams.

But that said, the Magic aren't quite to step 3 yet (although it gets closer literally by the day) and because of that, I'm not sure they're ready to commit to step 2 just yet.

They seem content to ride out the development of their young guys as long as humanly possible before they actually push any chips to the middle of the table and go for it.

Paolo, Franz, and Suggs are basically going to be 92 million + of cap space.

[tiderulz]

Gradey hasn't done anything special, not sure why you're still on his predraft hype train

We blew it by not taking Cam Whitmore and or the kid in Utah. This much is obvious if you did any kind of research whatsoever.

Whitemore is a black hole on offense and not a good defender. George is struggling shooting from the field and absolutely horrible on defense. his only saving grace is shooting avearge (35%) from 3.

And you're saying you'd rather have Black before those two guys? We also missed out on Jaquez.

Jaime went 18, a lot of teams missed out on him. he looks good on a veteran team, but he isnt perfect shooting sub 32% from 3 and subpar efficiency. I personally dont feel they have a good development plan for Black. For Suggs Wagner and Paolo, they just sent them out there and had them play, not really enthused about their development plan for them that much either, though Suggs shooting has improved, unknown if that is just his hard work or the team development. For developing a PG, they dont seem to really have him playing a true PG role. Black just turned 20 and has potential, i refuse to judge any players based on their first year. If we did that, Suggs would be on another team right now.

[tiderulz]

Can "Most" be described as the extreme Fultz haters and the extreme Fultz lovers?

That's my view of the psychology behind fan treatment of Black.

You disliked Fultz because he couldn't shoot or you liked Fultz despite his inability to shoot, so enter Black, a PG that "can't shoot"... Tough pill for fans to shallow in either camp.

I'm curious if you could attempt to put your irrational Fultz hate into words.

I'm not saying I think he's a great player because I don't but he does appear to be a scapegoat and receive an undue amount of irrational hate.

Meanwhile Suggs, who I suppose many like just because he plays hard, is touted as some sort of God. All it takes it one injury or for his shot to fall off and his upcoming deal could hold the team back for years of we overpay.

The Magic are about to have $400M+ tied up with Paolo and Franz over the next five years, we need to be very careful and judicious with how we spend the rest of the cap.

In words: damaged goods, injury prone, injured, limited skills, no upside, mid impact.

Is that irrational?

yeah, i dont see anyone looking at Fultz as being a disappointment as someone having "irrational hate". he is at best a below average starting PG and ideally more a backup PG

[tiderulz]

Monk is below average in shooting and ball control. Will he really help this offense?

Monk has averaged 5 assists to 2 TO. He is shooting 45% 37% 80%. We already have 3 ball handlers in the starting lineup. We are replacing Fultz.

I don’t think there is a better option. Monk can move to 2nd unit if ever needed. He is 26.

We like him over Tyus?

i know i do. Tyus is a better PG than anyone we have on the roster, but he is limited and I dont believe has another level of play in him. you can see from last year to this year as a starter, he made little improvements but nothing major. if we werent going to make any other move, i would be onboard with it. While i dont view Monk as a PG, i think between him, Franz, Paolo and Suggs, we would have ball handling covered and then just go get a better backup PG.

[tiderulz]

My sense, and this is just a feeling, but my sense is that the Magic will skew more towards veteran players on shorter deals (similar to what they did with Ingles) this summer rather than paying big money on a longer deal to get someone who fits the age window more.

Like I think if they had the choice of going 2/80 for Jrue or 4/90 for Monk, they would opt to overpay the veteran on a short contract since the money would be coming off the books before Paolo was on a supermax, instead of tying up their money for longer.

which means we dont get any good, prime age players but players at the end of their career.

[eyriq]

We like him over Tyus?

Tyus is 2” shorter and actually needs the ball in his hands more.

I’m lukewarm on Tyus.

LOL. Monk has higher usage rate than Tyus. I’m spreading lies everywhere.

This off-season is critical. 4 jobs open up right off the bat.

- Starting guard
- Backup guard
- 3rd string center
- 3rd string swingman

Some jobs should be open and could be opened with no effort.

- Backup small forward

Some jobs should be open that will require disruption.

- 6th Man
- Starting center


My read of the front office is that they want to promote from within, first and foremost. No skipping steps. They won't want to block AB and Jett.

But I also get the sense that they'll view this season as a massive over performance. They have confirmation that Mosley can coach a winner and establish an identity. They have confirmation that Paolo and Franz are stars and that Suggs is a core piece.

The team is a top 10 offense away from contending for a title. They've been in the quadrant of wow at various stages this season, primarily when we've had a lot of home games. Because of our size and Paolo our offensive rebounding and free throw rate is already worthy of a top 10 offense. It's the turnovers and shooting that gets us.

When you hear shooting and turnovers you immediately think of upgrading guard play. We've invested three lotto picks in our guard rotation. But Cole stands out like Rudolph's nose.

Do we have the cojones to move Cole? Is that even the right move, he's still young.

I'm curious what we end up doing. I think Tyus could be and probably should be our top target. And also I personally want to try to move Cole and WCJ. It'd be great if we could get both Tyus and Claxton.

[eyriq]

Here's the lineup I'd like:

Point guard: Black
Combo guard: Tyus
Shooting guard: Suggs
Swingman: Jett
Small forward: Franz
Combo forward: Caleb
Power forward: Paolo
Combo big: JI
Power center: Claxton
Quick center: Moe

[Skybox]

We are a below average offense because we are below average at shooting and ball control. Both Franz (.530) and Paolo (.501) are below average (.547 eFG%) shooters. They will improve and our shooting will improve organically as a result. Cole (.489) and Fultz (.482) are outright terrible here but we've invested three lotto picks into upgrades already.

Ingles (18.2%), Suggs (15.4%), Cole (13.3%), Fultz (12.6%), and Paolo (12.6%) are all below average in ball control (12.1 TOV%).

I think Paolo and Suggs will continue to improve here and we can make some moves to improve ball control on the bench.

Trading Cole and bringing in Tyus Jones is really tempting.

Your stats have value but easily misinterpreted (or spun?)...why count on Paolo and Franz becoming better shooters? I tend to think their efficiency (better shooting) improves tremendously just by not having them fight through 3 guys for every shot. They're amazingly efficient when you consider the degree of difficulty of their typical shot creation.

It's equally misleading to talk about what a great shooting prospect Black is when all he takes are wide open shots. Tyus Jones 40% is just like Gary Harris'...low-volume, low expectation - nobody notices when they don't score 20+. I'm not criticizing Black for making those - I'm just pointing it that it's not a whole lot different degree of difficulty than those summer shooting drills vs. chairs. I'll take it a step further and say as bad as our overall backcourt shooting is - the players are even worse than they look because so many of their 3pt shot attempts are wide open...because Franz & Paolo are in a dogpile of defenders 15 feet away from the open shot they created with their gravity.

More talent = good thing

[eyriq]

We are a below average offense because we are below average at shooting and ball control. Both Franz (.530) and Paolo (.501) are below average (.547 eFG%) shooters. They will improve and our shooting will improve organically as a result. Cole (.489) and Fultz (.482) are outright terrible here but we've invested three lotto picks into upgrades already.

Ingles (18.2%), Suggs (15.4%), Cole (13.3%), Fultz (12.6%), and Paolo (12.6%) are all below average in ball control (12.1 TOV%).

I think Paolo and Suggs will continue to improve here and we can make some moves to improve ball control on the bench.

Trading Cole and bringing in Tyus Jones is really tempting.

Your stats have value but easily misinterpreted (or spun?)...why count on Paolo and Franz becoming better shooters? I tend to think their efficiency (better shooting) improves tremendously just by not having them fight through 3 guys for every shot. They're amazingly efficient when you consider the degree of difficulty of their typical shot creation.

It's equally misleading to talk about what a great shooting prospect Black is when all he takes are wide open shots. Tyus Jones 40% is just like Gary Harris'...low-volume, low expectation - nobody notices when they don't score 20+. I'm not criticizing Black for making those - I'm just pointing it that it's not a whole lot different degree of difficulty than those summer shooting drills vs. chairs. I'll take it a step further and say as bad as our overall backcourt shooting is - the players are even worse than they look because so many of their 3pt shot attempts are wide open...because Franz & Paolo are in a dogpile of defenders 15 feet away from the open shot they created with their gravity.

More talent = good thing

I think the main driver of their below average shooting is their age and offensive workload. Increase usage and you decrease efficiency, as a general rule. Decrease age and you decrease efficiency, as a general rule. It's natural to expect that getting older will result in them improving their efficiency.

You seem to want to add another high usage player. This would take the ball out of Paolo's and Franz's hands, but also out of Suggs' hand. This could help the offense through the relationship between usage and efficiency, lowering their usage and increasing their efficiency. But there's also a relationship between usage and development. Increase usage, speed up development. Maximizing this cores development is critical.

So yeah, I think it makes sense to lean on organic improvement as players develop to improve their ball control and shooting. Replace some of the peripheral pieces with more efficient players and give the lotto talent room to grow.

[basketballRob]

I remember wanting Monk in the draft because I thought he'd be like Gilbert Arenas. Monk didn't become a PG like I thought he would. We ended up drafting Isaac.

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[Residual-Heat]

Monk is just better than Tyus Jones. I think he's a better fit too. Tyus wouldve been nice for a mid-season move to help us win more games in the regular season this year, but he's not someone that will contribute much in the play offs. Monk could be the answer we need at PG, but if he isnt, then we still have Black or the option of trading for a PG and making Monk a 6th man where we know he'll thrive too.

[RichCollab]

You know what be hilarious? We go with continuity and bring everyone back minus Goga. We keep our 1st pick and draft a non shooting PG.

[Skybox]

I think the main driver of their below average shooting is their age and offensive workload. Increase usage and you decrease efficiency, as a general rule. Decrease age and you decrease efficiency, as a general rule. It's natural to expect that getting older will result in them improving their efficiency.

You seem to want to add another high usage player. This would take the ball out of Paolo's and Franz's hands, but also out of Suggs' hand. This could help the offense through the relationship between usage and efficiency, lowering their usage and increasing their efficiency. But there's also a relationship between usage and development. Increase usage, speed up development. Maximizing this cores development is critical.
.

This isn't strictly mathematical. Sometimes the equation can't be simplified to one or two metrics...high usage doesn't necessarily mean good or bad quality usage. I'm just trying to:
- get them room to work. Being forced to beat and be beaten up by 3 defenders isn't necessarily "developmental". Troy Aikman was drafted by the Cowboys and spent the first few seasons getting absolutely beaten on because their pass protection was nonexistent. He went on to be a HOFer but not, imo, because of all the suffering and bad quality football he was forced to play through early in his career.

-get them the wins that they are already earning by putting a team around them. Their ages are no longer relevant. They are HERE. NOW. That's not true for most players their age - but it is for them. When they make a great pass to an open teammate, they should get an assist. Surrounding them with non-complementary players is NOT supportive of their strengths - it's compromising them. How many times will Paolo give up the ball only to see it clang off the back iron because his teammate just isn't a good shooter before he just takes it himself? Why wouldn't he just start chucking up 3's when he feels like the battles in the paint against 3 defenders are just not a realistic path?

"Taking the ball out of their hands" isn't, by definition a bad thing or a demotion in the offensive hierarchy. Starting with the ball on the perimeter is what they both excel at-but it's a tough way to start every possession. Don't you think they'd flourish (and watch their efficiency explode) with a higher volume of cuts, lobs, spot ups, etc created by a third legit scoring threat?...That's not minimizing their talent - it's a realistic sustainable offensive plan that gives a team hope of getting past the first round every year.

[eyriq]

I think the main driver of their below average shooting is their age and offensive workload. Increase usage and you decrease efficiency, as a general rule. Decrease age and you decrease efficiency, as a general rule. It's natural to expect that getting older will result in them improving their efficiency.

You seem to want to add another high usage player. This would take the ball out of Paolo's and Franz's hands, but also out of Suggs' hand. This could help the offense through the relationship between usage and efficiency, lowering their usage and increasing their efficiency. But there's also a relationship between usage and development. Increase usage, speed up development. Maximizing this cores development is critical.
.

This isn't strictly mathematical. Sometimes the equation can't be simplified to one or two metrics...high usage doesn't necessarily mean good or bad quality usage. I'm just trying to:
- get them room to work. Being forced to beat and be beaten up by 3 defenders isn't necessarily "developmental". Troy Aikman was drafted by the Cowboys and spent the first few seasons getting absolutely beaten on because their pass protection was nonexistent. He went on to be a HOFer but not, imo, because of all the suffering and bad quality football he was forced to play through early in his career.

-get them the wins that they are already earning by putting a team around them. Their ages are no longer relevant. They are HERE. NOW. That's not true for most players their age - but it is for them. When they make a great pass to an open teammate, they should get an assist. Surrounding them with non-complementary players is NOT supportive of their strengths - it's compromising them. How many times will Paolo give up the ball only to see it clang off the back iron because his teammate just isn't a good shooter before he just takes it himself? Why wouldn't he just start chucking up 3's when he feels like the battles in the paint against 3 defenders are just not a realistic path?

"Taking the ball out of their hands" isn't, by definition a bad thing or a demotion in the offensive hierarchy. Starting with the ball on the perimeter is what they both excel at-but it's a tough way to start every possession. Don't you think they'd flourish (and watch their efficiency explode) with a higher volume of cuts, lobs, spot ups, etc created by a third legit scoring threat?...That's not minimizing their talent - it's a realistic sustainable offensive plan that gives a team hope of getting past the first round every year.

I stand by what I said. Their efficiency is likely to improve as they get more experience.

They are surrounded with Suggs and a revolving door at the second guard spot and center. Suggs is shooting very efficiently (.563), as is Harris (.575) and WCJ (.613). Moe, Ingles, and Caleb are all above average shooters as well. Black is just a smidge below.

It really is Paolo, Franz, and Cole that drag down the teams eFG%. For Paolo and Franz it's just a matter of time.

You make it out like Franchero have no one to pass to and it's just not the case. They don't need a high usage player to push the offense over the top, they need to get better internally.

[RookieStar]

I juat dont get whu you guys are more high on Monk than Grayson.

Grayson is bigger/taller , better defense, better 3pt percentage, championship experience/pedigree...

Monk is a better playmaker which is something this team needs badly. He is also significantly better at creating his own shot and this is even more noticeable in the playoffs. I distinctly remember the Bucks - Celtics series in 2022 when Middleton was out so Grayson had to play more minutes against starters and just couldn't create any shots for himself against the Boston defence. He shot 7.7% on pull-ups in that series. That's not a typo. He just couldn't score at all except when someone created an open look for him, he was just completely unable to create any decent looks for himself. While the low percentage may have been a fluke somewhat, the more important thing is the low volume. In a 7 game series where he played 26 MPG Allen took a total of 13 pull-up shots. And he had a total of 4 unassisted baskets the whole series. In last year's playoffs he had 0 unassisted baskets. Yes, he only played 5 games, but still, 0 unassisted baskets in 150 minutes is not great to put it mildly. Monk had 20 unassisted baskets in the playoffs last season, which was the majority of his shots.

I know he needs to be assisted. That is why Im all for it especially his 3pt percentage. The fact is, this starting lineup PB and Franz handle majority of the ball. We get to our halfcourt sets, we do pick and rolls but ultimately when ball stops, its in the hands of PB or Franz. Allen is just the threat so defense has to open up for the drives of our 2 wings or he takes a very high% shot.