2024 NBA Draft Thread

[HadAnEffectHere]

Deron Williams wasn't a bad defender at the NBA level. Collier would be lucky to be as good as him.

Yeah, he was fine, the NBA just punishes guards with a short standing reach more in this era so Collier will probably be a much worse defender even if Collier starts trying to win games.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Collier's game is much better suited to the NBA than college. If he had better teammates his assist numbers would be much higher at USC. He's a very good playmaker. His quick first step and ability in the PnR will allow him to eat in half-court offenses in the NBA. He has potential to be a solid defender. I'm not sure where this narrative that he lacks hops has come from either. He can effortlessly do windmill dunks. Just because you aren't seeing dunks in crowded paints at the college level doesn't mean he can't jump lmao.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Collier's game is much better suited to the NBA than college. If he had better teammates his assist numbers would be much higher at USC. He's a very good playmaker. His quick first step and ability in the PnR will allow him to eat in half-court offenses in the NBA. He has potential to be a solid defender. I'm not sure where this narrative that he lacks hops has come from either. He can effortlessly do windmill dunks. Just because you aren't seeing dunks in crowded paints at the college level doesn't mean he can't jump lmao.

Name good starters in the NBA who:

-Are 6'3" or shorter
-Cannot shoot

Collier's game is a terrible fit for the NBA unless he can bomb like 8-10 3PAs per game at 37%+ accuracy.

Which... It's possible I guess, but that's the only path.

[JMAC3]

Collier is listed at 6-5 and 210 lbs and he plays up to his size. He bullied Cody Williams several possessions in their latest game vs Colorado. I am not going to bat as Collier is some can't miss guy, but I think I am higher on him than consensus when all is said done. 6 FTA per game is pretty good for a freshman guard, not saying it is a perfect comp but I think he could be a Collin Sexton type of player at the next level.

I don't have an official board or anything yet but I think he is in the back half of the top 10 for me.

[SeattleJazzFan]

It's more than just a signature game.

Miller was the best player in college basketball. He was on the #1 team in the country for most of the season.

Collier is none of that. He's not even a projected top 5 pick. I'm trying to understand why you included him in the same tier of player as Miller.

lol. reading is hard for you apparently. I literally just spelled out why i compared him to Miller. in fact i've now explained twice in the last four posts why i made the comparison. if you refuse to try or are unable to understand, i can't help you.

Also, Miller was absolutely NOT the clear cut best player in CBB last year. Edey was. Miller wasn't even a first team all-american. But he, like Collier was damn good and incredibly productive for a frosh.

and the fact Collier isn't even a projected top 5 pick - after ESPN had him going #1 overall back in December - is the entire point of my original post. people are sleeping on him.

This man said Edey was the best player in college basketball last year LMAO

So how is the best player in college basketball for the past 2 years is not a projected top 5 pick?

so uh, college is not the NBA. Edey won the naismith and wooden awards last year einstein.

[SeattleJazzFan]

loving the some of the of the most recent posts in this thread - they speak directly to the point i'm making. people will nitpick and focus on weaknesses, while ignoring this is a OAD who is killing it from a production standpoint at the power conference level. pick him apart if you will, but that's a dude you bet on.

to be clear, he's far from can't miss - his shooting isn't nearly good enough to where he's a can't miss guy (if he were 44% from three, he'd be a lock for #1 overall), but don't sleep on the production at USC - that's all i'm saying.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Collier's game is much better suited to the NBA than college. If he had better teammates his assist numbers would be much higher at USC. He's a very good playmaker. His quick first step and ability in the PnR will allow him to eat in half-court offenses in the NBA. He has potential to be a solid defender. I'm not sure where this narrative that he lacks hops has come from either. He can effortlessly do windmill dunks. Just because you aren't seeing dunks in crowded paints at the college level doesn't mean he can't jump lmao.

Name good starters in the NBA who:

-Are 6'3" or shorter
-Cannot shoot

Collier's game is a terrible fit for the NBA unless he can bomb like 8-10 3PAs per game at 37%+ accuracy.

Which... It's possible I guess, but that's the only path.

there have been MVP winners (Westbrook, Rose) and all-nba lead guards who "cannot shoot" like Luka, Ja, Fox and they've managed to make it work. How we've decided 18 and 19 year olds "cannot shoot" is beyond me. Collier's three point attempts aren't like Sheppards. He's not wide open by 5 yards like him. All he'll need to do is shoot well enough to keep defenses honest. If he does that, his powerful build, quick first step burst, ability to absorb contact, and playmake off the PnR are elite traits for the NBA.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Collier's game is much better suited to the NBA than college. If he had better teammates his assist numbers would be much higher at USC. He's a very good playmaker. His quick first step and ability in the PnR will allow him to eat in half-court offenses in the NBA. He has potential to be a solid defender. I'm not sure where this narrative that he lacks hops has come from either. He can effortlessly do windmill dunks. Just because you aren't seeing dunks in crowded paints at the college level doesn't mean he can't jump lmao.

Name good starters in the NBA who:

-Are 6'3" or shorter
-Cannot shoot

1) link to his official measurements?
2) he's shooting 35% in conference play. that's nothing to write home about, but it's a far cry from "can't shoot". also it's crazy on a board full of nba draft geeks people have to be reminded that a 19 year old isn't a finished product - especially in terms of shooting.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Collier is listed at 6-5 and 210 lbs and he plays up to his size. He bullied Cody Williams several possessions in their latest game vs Colorado. I am not going to bat as Collier is some can't miss guy, but I think I am higher on him than consensus when all is said done. 6 FTA per game is pretty good for a freshman guard, not saying it is a perfect comp but I think he could be a Collin Sexton type of player at the next level.

I don't have an official board or anything yet but I think he is in the back half of the top 10 for me.

Sexton is like... the worst comp possible?

1. Sexton is an elite athlete, Collier is not
2. Sexton's BBIQ sucks, this is Collier's only positive trait
3. Sexton cares a ton and is an intense competitor, Collier doesn't care at all
4. Sexton is ripped and is perfect shape, Collier is really out of shape.

Collier is short LaMelo who needs to shoot 37% from three on extremely high volume.

This is obviously a big issue as Collier's FT% is very very very very bad.

[JustBuzzin]

lol. reading is hard for you apparently. I literally just spelled out why i compared him to Miller. in fact i've now explained twice in the last four posts why i made the comparison. if you refuse to try or are unable to understand, i can't help you.

Also, Miller was absolutely NOT the clear cut best player in CBB last year. Edey was. Miller wasn't even a first team all-american. But he, like Collier was damn good and incredibly productive for a frosh.

and the fact Collier isn't even a projected top 5 pick - after ESPN had him going #1 overall back in December - is the entire point of my original post. people are sleeping on him.

This man said Edey was the best player in college basketball last year LMAO

So how is the best player in college basketball for the past 2 years is not a projected top 5 pick?

so uh, college is not the NBA. Edey won the naismith and wooden awards last year einstein.

How often of the Wooden Award winners the #1 pick?

Just because you won the award doesn't make you the best player.

Best college player is likely the guy who is drafted the highest. I rememeber watching multiple non Alabama games and the announcers were literally saying the best player in the country was Brandon Miller.

[JustBuzzin]

Collier is listed at 6-5 and 210 lbs and he plays up to his size. He bullied Cody Williams several possessions in their latest game vs Colorado. I am not going to bat as Collier is some can't miss guy, but I think I am higher on him than consensus when all is said done. 6 FTA per game is pretty good for a freshman guard, not saying it is a perfect comp but I think he could be a Collin Sexton type of player at the next level.

I don't have an official board or anything yet but I think he is in the back half of the top 10 for me.

He's in my top 10 for sure. You can't deny his ability to get to the rim. If Charlotte ends up with a 8-10 range draft pick I think we should draft him if he's on the board.

[FarBeyondDriven]

This time in 2022 people decided the 2023 class was great based on the two supposedly elite guys at the top in Wembanyama and Scoot. Their opinions didn't change despite Scoot being terrible in 2023. Not much else changed about the 2023 class during the season except Miller proved to be a great prospect.

A year ago, due in large part because there wasn't any supposed elite talents at the top of this class, 2024 was deemed weak. And despite Collier being bigger and a better shooter than Scoot, he wasn't considered elite and therefore not a reason to consider this class anything other than weak. Collier is the same level of prospect as Scoot. If Scoot elevated his class, Collier should be elevating his. But that's the rub, people decide these things a year in advance and good or bad, don't change their opinions/takes despite given new information.

I think USC being a **** show is clouding people's perceptions of Collier. Boogie Ellis is a chucking black hole that plays no defense and out of loyalty he plays starter minutes. He's delusional and believes he's an NBA talent and it destroys their offense. Their small forward, Kobe Johnson, is barely 6'5". Their bigs have feet for hands and can't defend. James was injured, forced to sit behind Ellis and has pressed big time in his desperation to solidify his draft status. It all combines to actively hurt Collier's spirit and draft status. Every game he watches multiple assists get squandered because his teammates suck. And he's been attributed with turnovers that really weren't his fault. It's resulted in a poorer assist to turnover ration than his talent suggests.

Unlike other top guys, he's not been afforded wide open opportunities from deep because the spacing is garbage and he's on ball so much with no secondary playmakers. It's surprising he's even shooting 33% tbh. Despite the bad spacing and clogged lanes he's still able to get to the rim with ease. Often when he becomes frustrated with his predicament he'll just decide to take over games in this way and the fact that he can and does shows he cares.

The narratives that he can't shoot, isn't athletic, and doesn't care are laughable. It's trollish at this point

[HadAnEffectHere]

Collier is 10000000% a much worse shooter than Scoot.

Scoot shot 75% from the line, Collier has shot 67% from the line and shot poorly from the line at many events in high school.

Collier's 67% from the line is just such a massive red flag.

Scoot also had a 6'9" wingspan and was in shape, Collier has short arms and is fat because he doesn't care.

Collier and Scoot will be awful NBA players (basically just Mudiay) if they can't just bomb 10 threes a game at a high percentage, but Scoot is way likelier to get there than Collier (which is not to say either are likely to get there).

I just wish that NBA draft fans would admit that shooting is most of what matters instead of being like "what about regular season Ben Simmons from four years ago"

"What about Ja Morant and his 45 inch vertical and literally no other players in the NBA who can succeed despite not being able to shoot"

[JustBuzzin]

Collier is 10000000% a much worse shooter than Scoot.

Scoot shot 75% from the line, Collier has shot 67% from the line and shot poorly from the line at many events in high school.

Collier's 67% from the line is just such a massive red flag.

Scoot also had a 6'9" wingspan and was in shape, Collier has short arms and is fat because he doesn't care.

Collier and Scoot will be awful NBA players (basically just Mudiay) if they can't just bomb 10 threes a game at a high percentage, but Scoot is way likelier to get there than Collier (which is not to say either are likely to get there).

Is he really fat though?

Seems like he just has a chubby face.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Collier is 10000000% a much worse shooter than Scoot.

Scoot shot 75% from the line, Collier has shot 67% from the line and shot poorly from the line at many events in high school.

Collier's 67% from the line is just such a massive red flag.

Scoot also had a 6'9" wingspan and was in shape, Collier has short arms and is fat because he doesn't care.

Collier and Scoot will be awful NBA players (basically just Mudiay) if they can't just bomb 10 threes a game at a high percentage, but Scoot is way likelier to get there than Collier (which is not to say either are likely to get there).

I just wish that NBA draft fans would admit that shooting is most of what matters instead of being like "what about regular season Ben Simmons from four years ago"

"What about Ja Morant and his 45 inch vertical and literally no other players in the NBA who can succeed despite not being able to shoot"

Scoot shot 28% from three. And while that's not great, it'd be asinine to write him off as a bad shooter at 19 y/o as much as it is writing Collier off because he's a 69% FT shooter. Collier has a short neck and powerful build. He's not fat in the slightest.

You asked for examples of guys that are succeeding at 6'3" or shorter (despite Collier being taller) and supposedly "cannot shoot" and were given viable answers. Sorry your premise was shot to ****. Just because Ja has a great vertical doesn't mean he's excluded from the conversation. And vertical is just one trait of many used to determine if a prospect makes for a good NBA player. Collier's powerful build and ability to absorb contract is something Ja doesn't possess. So it's all relative. There are many many NBA players that developed outside shots (or not) that carved out great NBA careers.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Ja is literally the only player in the NBA who fits the criteria.

I'm sorry, but Collier is not Ja Morant.

Name any other player.

Collier and Scoot will just be awful players unless they bomb threes at a really high percentage. Collier's really bad and consistently bad FT% suggests he won't become a good shooter, but there's some chance I guess.

Both guys will just be Mudiay unless they bomb threes.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Ja is literally the only player in the NBA who fits the criteria.

I'm sorry, but Collier is not Ja Morant.

Name any other player.

Collier and Scoot will just be awful players unless they bomb threes at a really high percentage. Collier's really bad and consistently bad FT% suggests he won't become a good shooter, but there's some chance I guess.

Both guys will just be Mudiay unless they bomb threes.

I literally named several players. There are dozens of NBA starters that aren't great three point shooters that produce in today's NBA

[HadAnEffectHere]

I'm sorry, but Luka is 6'7", 230 pounds and shoots 8-10 threes a game (mostly off the dribble) and shoots 35%+ on them.

Fox shoots a ridiculous over 50% on shots from 4 to 15 feet on high volume.

[elias808]

Yeah I don't really get the hype with him. He is a 4 yr college player who is just too big/fast for the Big Sky. If he played on a decent power 5 team vs real power 5 schools I really don't know if he would be considered a draft prospect. Go look at their schedule it is a joke.

He also is only a career 32% three point shooter on pretty meh volume. He will probably be around 45 on my board if I extend it that far.

At pick 45 in the draft I’ll gladly take a guy with a tangible skill set that translates to the NBA. A guy with decent enough athleticism and extremely high IQ and motor should not only make a roster but also project to be a high level glue guy/rotation player in my book. As you can tell, I’m very high on Jones. Would happily draft him in the 15-20 range.

What is his tangible skill? He is a 6-6 big bodied guard who just bullies smaller slower opponents, but vs real NBA athletes I have a hard time seeing him just physically dominating like he does now. I get he is a great rebounding guard, but does that translate to NBA at his size consistently? Also, no issues with him going at pick 45. I just don't agree with him in the 20-25 range that he is creeping up to.

Rebounding. Will he average double digit rebounds like he does now, no. Should he be above average for us position, yes.
His feel for the game, specifically seeing his teammates for easy buckets, is a tangible skill.
I would argue defense is another one as well.

Once you get to pick 20 and beyond it’s a total crap shoot. It’s either a freshman that underperformed, a second or third tier European player, or a 4 year “old guy”. Personally, I’ll take the 4 year “old guy”. Especially one that averages 21/10/5.

[BlazersBroncos]

At pick 45 in the draft I’ll gladly take a guy with a tangible skill set that translates to the NBA. A guy with decent enough athleticism and extremely high IQ and motor should not only make a roster but also project to be a high level glue guy/rotation player in my book. As you can tell, I’m very high on Jones. Would happily draft him in the 15-20 range.

What is his tangible skill? He is a 6-6 big bodied guard who just bullies smaller slower opponents, but vs real NBA athletes I have a hard time seeing him just physically dominating like he does now. I get he is a great rebounding guard, but does that translate to NBA at his size consistently? Also, no issues with him going at pick 45. I just don't agree with him in the 20-25 range that he is creeping up to.

Rebounding. Will he average double digit rebounds like he does now, no. Should he be above average for us position, yes.
His feel for the game, specifically seeing his teammates for easy buckets, is a tangible skill.
I would argue defense is another one as well.

Once you get to pick 20 and beyond it’s a total crap shoot. It’s either a freshman that underperformed, a second or third tier European player, or a 4 year “old guy”. Personally, I’ll take the 4 year “old guy”. Especially one that averages 21/10/5.

He is a ground bound 6'6 high usage G/F who cant shoot well. He is averaging 0.1 BPG in a lower conference which while not the be-all-end-all is certainly an indicator of his poor athleticism.

12 guys in this league average 10+ rpg and not a single one is near the size of Jones.

He has alot of nice tools from a skill perspective and I certainly see him as a draftable guy but I wouldnt touch him before the second round. The FT% specifically makes him draftable for me in the SR - with the hope that like many other guys it is an indication his 3 can improve, albeit as a 4 year guy and still not a 'shooter' I am not that hopeful.

Ron Harper JR was a similar body-type and he had IMO a skillset much more translatable to the NBA (3/D hustle guy who didnt need the ball) - and he is still not sticking in the league.