Project a realistic star trade for the Jazz for the 2024-2025 season.

[red4hf]

I'm in the minority, but I'd much rather watch Hendricks, Keyonte, and Sensebaugh than Olynyk, Fontecchio, and Ochai.

Where everyone seems to be hand wringing, I'm celebrating.

In a vacuum, yes. If it alienates Lauri, no. The fact that we have now ings after the deadline to me is pretty inexcusable.

It may have hit a little hard, but players know this is a business. Lauri knows that Ainge is trying to build the best team he can around HIM. And when he signs that fat extention he will know for sure.

Y'all are worrying too much.

Lauri will not renegotiate and extend, would leave too much money on the table..... He will play out the contract and become eligible for a deal starting at around $40 mil a year...... He'll be an unrestricted free agent too.......

[babyjax13]

In a vacuum, yes. If it alienates Lauri, no. The fact that we have now ings after the deadline to me is pretty inexcusable.

It may have hit a little hard, but players know this is a business. Lauri knows that Ainge is trying to build the best team he can around HIM. And when he signs that fat extention he will know for sure.

Y'all are worrying too much.

Lauri will not renegotiate and extend, would leave too much money on the table..... He will play out the contract and become eligible for a deal starting at around $40 mil a year...... He'll be an unrestricted free agent too.......

I don't see how he'd be leaving money on the table. We can increase his salary up to the maximum allowable contract:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/11/hoops-rumors-glossary-renegotiations-3.html

However, renegotiations are allowed to make an NBA contract more lucrative, and they can happen as long as a specific set of circumstances are in place:

Only contracts that cover four or more seasons can be renegotiated, though that rule doesn’t apply to rookie scale deals — even though they run for four years, they can’t be renegotiated.
Renegotiations can only occur after the third anniversary of a contract signing, an extension, or a previous renegotiation (assuming the previous renegotiation increased the salary in any season by 5% or more).
Perhaps most importantly, teams can’t renegotiate any contracts if they’re over the cap, and they can only increase the player’s salary in the current season by the amount of cap room that they have (or to the player’s maximum salary).
The raises for any seasons that follow the first renegotiated season in a contract are limited to 8%. That’s also true of salary decreases, though if a renegotiation happens at the same time as an extension, the player’s salary can decrease by as much as 40% from the last season of the existing contract to the first season of the extension.

[HadAnEffectHere]

It's just really hard to find a guy better than Brandon Ingram the Jazz could hypothetically get next year and I doubt Ainge wants to spend assets on Ingram.

Would expect Lauri gets his renegotiation and extend max and then is traded to San Antonio or whoever else is the highest bidder before the deadline next year.

[red4hf]

It may have hit a little hard, but players know this is a business. Lauri knows that Ainge is trying to build the best team he can around HIM. And when he signs that fat extention he will know for sure.

Y'all are worrying too much.

Lauri will not renegotiate and extend, would leave too much money on the table..... He will play out the contract and become eligible for a deal starting at around $40 mil a year...... He'll be an unrestricted free agent too.......

I don't see how he'd be leaving money on the table. We can increase his salary up to the maximum allowable contract:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/11/hoops-rumors-glossary-renegotiations-3.html

However, renegotiations are allowed to make an NBA contract more lucrative, and they can happen as long as a specific set of circumstances are in place:

Only contracts that cover four or more seasons can be renegotiated, though that rule doesn’t apply to rookie scale deals — even though they run for four years, they can’t be renegotiated.
Renegotiations can only occur after the third anniversary of a contract signing, an extension, or a previous renegotiation (assuming the previous renegotiation increased the salary in any season by 5% or more).
Perhaps most importantly, teams can’t renegotiate any contracts if they’re over the cap, and they can only increase the player’s salary in the current season by the amount of cap room that they have (or to the player’s maximum salary).
The raises for any seasons that follow the first renegotiated season in a contract are limited to 8%. That’s also true of salary decreases, though if a renegotiation happens at the same time as an extension, the player’s salary can decrease by as much as 40% from the last season of the existing contract to the first season of the extension.

Looks like the info I had was wrong I stand corrected......

[BK_2020]

It's just really hard to find a guy better than Brandon Ingram the Jazz could hypothetically get next year and I doubt Ainge wants to spend assets on Ingram.

Would expect Lauri gets his renegotiation and extend max and then is traded to San Antonio or whoever else is the highest bidder before the deadline next year.

You can't be traded for a year after an extension IIRC.

[SkyHook]

It's just really hard to find a guy better than Brandon Ingram the Jazz could hypothetically get next year and I doubt Ainge wants to spend assets on Ingram.

Would expect Lauri gets his renegotiation and extend max and then is traded to San Antonio or whoever else is the highest bidder before the deadline next year.

You can't be traded for a year after an extension IIRC.

Six months. Clarkson did a R+E in the offseason and was trade eligible in early January.

[Cappy_Smurf]

I'm in the minority, but I'd much rather watch Hendricks, Keyonte, and Sensebaugh than Olynyk, Fontecchio, and Ochai.

Where everyone seems to be hand wringing, I'm celebrating.

You must enjoy watching frustrated players getting their calendars out so they can count the days until they exit Utah.

The rest of this season is about losing, and that sucks for all the players. Good development includes being competitive enough that you have a chance to win most games. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want to watch their rookies lose by 30 every game in the name of development.

I think maybe you underestimate the difference in the team with those other players gone.

[jazzfan1971]

It feels like Jazz fans have all fallen into an echo chamber of doom.

I ask you to trust me. Trading Olynyk, Fontecchio, and Ochai isn't enough of deal to make anyone leave. That's just crazy talk. These aren't stars. Not even starters. Definitely weren't a large part of the future.

Mostly inconsequential stuff here, relax.

[penbeast0]

I'm in the minority, but I'd much rather watch Hendricks, Keyonte, and Sensebaugh than Olynyk, Fontecchio, and Ochai.

Where everyone seems to be hand wringing, I'm celebrating.

You must enjoy watching frustrated players getting their calendars out so they can count the days until they exit Utah.

The rest of this season is about losing, and that sucks for all the players. Good development includes being competitive enough that you have a chance to win most games. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want to watch their rookies lose by 30 every game in the name of development.

I think maybe you underestimate the difference in the team with those other players gone.

After 45 years of watching mediocre veterans playing ahead of the youngsters and still losing consistently year out and year in, as a Wizards fan it's actually refreshing. Ask me again in 3 years.

[HadAnEffectHere]

It feels like Jazz fans have all fallen into an echo chamber of doom.

I ask you to trust me. Trading Olynyk, Fontecchio, and Ochai isn't enough of deal to make anyone leave. That's just crazy talk. These aren't stars. Not even starters. Definitely weren't a large part of the future.

Mostly inconsequential stuff here, relax.

Obviously these players aren't very relevant, however the roster construction now just doesn't make any sense. The Jazz now start two centers who can't play together and have no wings on the roster. This was a move made to intentionally lose to get the 9th pick and get a guy who maybe can be an average starter one day and that's kind of weird to do without previously informing the players on the team that "hey, we're planning to intentionally lose this season so don't get mad if we sabotage the team at the deadline."

[jazzfan1971]

John Collins had zero star potential, it was a really weird trade compared to actually taking a swing on a guy like Ayton who genuinely does have star potential.

LaMelo is the most obvious potentially obtainable player, but he'll only be obtainable if he has another major lower body injury next year and then it's unclear if the Jazz should want him.

From a rehabbing value perspective, I'm pretty sure the Jazz failed completely to do this with John Collins as well. No one seemed interested at all in him because he's an undersized C who isn't great offensively.

According to the Lebron stat
John Collins
2023 = .07 good for #141 in the league.
2022 = -.42 good for #218 in the league.

When we traded for him he was owed about 78mil. (give or take)
This offseason he will be owed about 56mil. (both assuming he picks up his player option, which is not a guarantee)

I don't know how anyone can look at Collins and not see that he is a better player this year and owed less going foward and not think those two factors would make him worth more this coming off season than last off season. And a year from now I expect his value will be even higher as I expect his impact stats to continue to improve to something more similar to his 2021 production where he was ranked #85 in the league as he adjusts to the Jazz system fully.

Collins has been climbing. Now ranked #116

[HadAnEffectHere]

John Collins had zero star potential, it was a really weird trade compared to actually taking a swing on a guy like Ayton who genuinely does have star potential.

LaMelo is the most obvious potentially obtainable player, but he'll only be obtainable if he has another major lower body injury next year and then it's unclear if the Jazz should want him.

From a rehabbing value perspective, I'm pretty sure the Jazz failed completely to do this with John Collins as well. No one seemed interested at all in him because he's an undersized C who isn't great offensively.

According to the Lebron stat
John Collins
2023 = .07 good for #141 in the league.
2022 = -.42 good for #218 in the league.

When we traded for him he was owed about 78mil. (give or take)
This offseason he will be owed about 56mil. (both assuming he picks up his player option, which is not a guarantee)

I don't know how anyone can look at Collins and not see that he is a better player this year and owed less going foward and not think those two factors would make him worth more this coming off season than last off season. And a year from now I expect his value will be even higher as I expect his impact stats to continue to improve to something more similar to his 2021 production where he was ranked #85 in the league as he adjusts to the Jazz system fully.

Collins has been climbing. Now ranked #116

Cool, he's been terrible and the Jazz are the 5th worst team in the NBA when he's on the court despite him playing a lot with Markkanen (-7.1)

[jazzfan1971]

According to the Lebron stat
John Collins
2023 = .07 good for #141 in the league.
2022 = -.42 good for #218 in the league.

When we traded for him he was owed about 78mil. (give or take)
This offseason he will be owed about 56mil. (both assuming he picks up his player option, which is not a guarantee)

I don't know how anyone can look at Collins and not see that he is a better player this year and owed less going foward and not think those two factors would make him worth more this coming off season than last off season. And a year from now I expect his value will be even higher as I expect his impact stats to continue to improve to something more similar to his 2021 production where he was ranked #85 in the league as he adjusts to the Jazz system fully.

Collins has been climbing. Now ranked #116

Cool, he's been terrible and the Jazz are the 5th worst team in the NBA when he's on the court despite him playing a lot with Markkanen (-7.1)

He started the season terrible. But, he's been improving month by month.

[HadAnEffectHere]

He's not "improving month by month" he's "getting more minutes at center month by month as the team focuses entirely on him for some reason"

Collins cannot play at all outside of center and you're automatically one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA if he plays at center.

[jayjaysee]

I think you add DJM this offseason and keep your 2027/2029 picks and Hendricks for if there’s an actual star available. The Luka trade took a bad turn, but in 12 months after trading the 2025 firsts for DJM.. You can offer some/all of..

2026/2028/2030/2032 Utah firsts
“Best three” 2027
“Best two” 2029

And whatever prospects are left/needed.. that’s a really strong volume package if the star wants to play with Kessler/Lauri/??.

Have to add something that fits with Lauri, but no need to overpay with what’s available. So you get a guy you hope is your third best player and is locked up for a few years to give a year or two for “Luka” to demand out.

A slightly less realistic option.. Overpay Bridges or Demar. For Demar, say ugly 3yr115 from loaded?.. rough.. Then trade Clarkson or Sexton to Orlando/Detroit/etc to get your money back for Lauri and hope that Collins becomes the matching salary for the actual star trade in the following 18 months. Always easier to pitch signing all stars though..

Collins and a first for Demar is a nice sign and trade idea. Not the most realistic but yeah.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Is DJM even an above average starting SG.

I think he's like the 25th best guard in the NBA.

I mean, he's clearly not one of their two best players... and the Hawks are really bad so like... How good is this guy?

[jayjaysee]

Is DJM even an above average starting SG.

I think he's like the 25th best guard in the NBA.

I mean, he's clearly not one of their two best players... and the Hawks are really bad so like... How good is this guy?

I don’t normally judge team success off of one guy, especially if he’s not a superstar.. If DJM was the star some thought, he’d never have agreed to a sub 17-18% of cap extension. He didn’t agree to that because he loves Atlanta and doesn’t care about money.. I still think he’s probably slightly underpaid and it’s a good contract, sure.. But if he was a true star, he’d have hit free agency and gotten at least 25% of the cap. Or 30…

But I don’t see why a team would not be really happy with him being the third best player, assuming you have two players clearly better than him.

How many guards are better on Utah is the question?

Like I said, I wouldn’t involve distant high variance picks, just the 2025 ones for him.

Just running it back and waiting for a top 15ish player to become available and willing to go to Utah? Seems a terrible waste of Lauri’s prime. End up trading him in 18-24 months and then rebuilding? Feels like a wasted 18 months..

Doesn’t have to be DJM, just some win now clear upgrade while you’re waiting for that true star to become available..