Around the NBA - Continued... more still

[Jeff Van Gully]

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smh

this sucks. sorry to hear.

[Wildcat]

It is all about risk management. Of course there is no guarantee of not having injury if you are not playing high amount of minutes. You could have an injury first game of the season in the first quarter and end up being out for the whole season. Remember McDyess?

And the problem with Thibs is not only about total minutes. It is also about how he manages minutes. Players playing whole quarters and sometimes even whole halves can not be good. Nor keeping your starters in when the other team already accept the defeat and put the benchwarmers in (those bench players are more motivated to show themselves and get more physical against starters).

Don't bother bro. People use zero context or facts when discussing this. Thibs law firm just talks sideways and keeps ignoring simple facts. The list is long enough and the examples are more than enough to prove Thibs is a maniac.

Spoiler:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/knicks-player-with-most-minutes-per-game

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/knicks-player-with-most-minutes-per-game-january-2024

some games they go long. we like winning and have tried to win some games shorthanded lately. but it is not even mathematically possible for the state of things to be as you say.

From the offices of Jeffrey Van Gully, Esq. "If the numbers do not fit, you must quit."

No.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2360161&start=60#p111620560

simple facts willfully ignored by the prosecution.

I pointed out some league averages back in January and there were no Knicks in the Top 20 in MPG. I think there were 2 or 3 in the Top 40.

Injuries seem to be up on all teams, be it small nagging issues to big time injuries. The pace of the game is up there. Other than Mitch -- which unfortunately is a player issue and not a coaching issue -- I can't remember a player that suffered from Thibs MPG distribution on the Knicks. Maybe in the tanking seasons, I don't know. Hardaway seemed to a durable guy. Same with Burks and Randle that year.

Randle had no injuries last year aside from the ankle (which I think we can all agree was sus). Brunson was fine. Grimes came into the season hurt. RJ was fine. IQ was fine. It's just crappy luck. It's a miracle Boston hasn't been touched with injuries.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Don't bother bro. People use zero context or facts when discussing this. Thibs law firm just talks sideways and keeps ignoring simple facts. The list is long enough and the examples are more than enough to prove Thibs is a maniac.

Spoiler:

No.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2360161&start=60#p111620560

simple facts willfully ignored by the prosecution.

I pointed out some league averages back in January and there were no Knicks in the Top 20 in MPG. I think there were 2 or 3 in the Top 40.

Injuries seem to be up on all teams, be it small nagging issues to big time injuries. The pace of the game is up there. Other than Mitch -- which unfortunately is a player issue and not a coaching issue -- I can't remember a player that suffered from Thibs MPG distribution on the Knicks. Maybe in the tanking seasons, I don't know. Hardaway seemed to an durable guy. Same with Burks and Randle that year.

Randle had no injuries last year aside from the ankle (which I think we can all agree was sus). Brunson was fine. Grimes came into the season hurt. RJ was fine. IQ was fine. It's just crappy luck. It's a miracle Boston hasn't been touched with injuries.

joe mazzulla and thibs might be the exact same person, but we don't hear none of that smoke for him. he's actually doing "worse" with the minutes and rotations. thibs got a history, but he not going as wild as some would want you to believe. probably hard to take if that's your posting identity though.

[Knick4Real]

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smh

this sucks. sorry to hear.

The whole league appears to be falling apart.

[aggo]

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smh

resign randle

[Fat Kat]

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[robillionaire]

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According to this he’s played in 59 games over there but I can’t really recall him playing in any game I can’t even picture him in my head wearing the jersey

[Guano]

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Jealousy is ugly and I dont do ugly - nothing but respect for Ben's hustle

stealing money from a billionaire and smashing gorgeous women along the way - all while doing the minimum

A finesse king

[ScienceOfLosing]

It took 10 years of playing over 46 minutes a game before Wilt had his first major injury. Almost like while there is correlation between minutes played and injury risk, there's not really any direct causation between a specific number of minutes played and any given injury.

Wow, using one of the best human specimens to have ever played basketball as your proof of no correlation between minutes and injury???

Almost all of our starters have been injured and a few for a decent amount of time.
I do think our physical style is partly to blame, which is why Thibs needs to use the bench more.
What we are seeing is a known Thibs thing.

Derek Rose has entered the chat.

It's ironic that you don't realize you're making my point for me.

You confuse correlation with causation here. I did say there is correlation between minutes played and injury risk. But by pointing out Wilt's uniqueness, you correctly assert that minutes played isn't the sole factor in injury risk and there can be mitigating circumstances that supersede minutes played. Simply put, players are built differently. They also play differently. You bring up Derrick Rose who had a play style that increased his injury risk, specifically risk of knee injury. He even talked about this post ACL. Did Thibs play him too much? Was it his play style? Both? You can't know. Or how about an injury to Zion? Would an injury be due to minutes? Play style? Body type? There's a ton of factors.

Don‘t pat yourself on the back too quick. I said our physical style is also a part of the injuries.
And you are not addressing why we lead the league in injuries. I‘ve never seen a Knock team so beat up.
Are you Thibs spokesperson? Seriously, he is a big part of the problem.

[ScienceOfLosing]

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smh

this sucks. sorry to hear.

Sorry as well but we dodged another bullet. We need ironmen here.

[jvsimonetti0514]

There are more injuries in the nba than ever before. The pace of the game might be pushing the limits of the human body.

same thing with baseball pitcher now too. The amount of torque they put on their elbows now is insane cuz they're throwing so much harder. It's possible that we might not be able to get any bigger or stronger and faster.

This was the first thing i thought of. The body just isn't made to sustain certain activities over a length of time and athletes continue to push the envelope further and further. Eventually a wall is going to be hit.

Sports science is pretty wild right now. Especially when it comes to pitching. One of the correspondents at my job did a story a few years about MLB pitching and he went to one of the training facilities and interviewed the staff. He's an in shape guy in his mid 40's and the trainers were basically like we could get you throwing in the mid 80's no problem.

I'm not going to pretend that playing a lot of minutes doesn't add to wear and tear of players. Those injuries usually don't end up being the ones that make players miss months of the season. You pull a hamstring or have a sore knee from that kind of stuff. The major injuries just seem more likely to come from freak accidents than anything that load management could really help.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2360161&start=60#p111620560

simple facts willfully ignored by the prosecution.

I pointed out some league averages back in January and there were no Knicks in the Top 20 in MPG. I think there were 2 or 3 in the Top 40.

Injuries seem to be up on all teams, be it small nagging issues to big time injuries. The pace of the game is up there. Other than Mitch -- which unfortunately is a player issue and not a coaching issue -- I can't remember a player that suffered from Thibs MPG distribution on the Knicks. Maybe in the tanking seasons, I don't know. Hardaway seemed to an durable guy. Same with Burks and Randle that year.

Randle had no injuries last year aside from the ankle (which I think we can all agree was sus). Brunson was fine. Grimes came into the season hurt. RJ was fine. IQ was fine. It's just crappy luck. It's a miracle Boston hasn't been touched with injuries.

joe mazzulla and thibs might be the exact same person, but we don't hear none of that smoke for him. he's actually doing "worse" with the minutes and rotations. thibs got a history, but he not going as wild as some would want you to believe. probably hard to take if that's your posting identity though.

The fact that Josh Hart has basically played like 44 minutes a night for the past month still only averaging 31 mins on the season says that thibs wasn't playing anyone big minutes until injuries happened.

[thisiskoz]

Wow, using one of the best human specimens to have ever played basketball as your proof of no correlation between minutes and injury???

Almost all of our starters have been injured and a few for a decent amount of time.
I do think our physical style is partly to blame, which is why Thibs needs to use the bench more.
What we are seeing is a known Thibs thing.

Derek Rose has entered the chat.

It's ironic that you don't realize you're making my point for me.

You confuse correlation with causation here. I did say there is correlation between minutes played and injury risk. But by pointing out Wilt's uniqueness, you correctly assert that minutes played isn't the sole factor in injury risk and there can be mitigating circumstances that supersede minutes played. Simply put, players are built differently. They also play differently. You bring up Derrick Rose who had a play style that increased his injury risk, specifically risk of knee injury. He even talked about this post ACL. Did Thibs play him too much? Was it his play style? Both? You can't know. Or how about an injury to Zion? Would an injury be due to minutes? Play style? Body type? There's a ton of factors.

Don‘t pat yourself on the back too quick. I said our physical style is also a part of the injuries.
And you are not addressing why we lead the league in injuries. I‘ve never seen a Knock team so beat up.
Are you Thibs spokesperson? Seriously, he is a big part of the problem.

I don't even particularly care for Thibs. It's telling you need to go there to try and invalidate my point, because you can't on merit. This honestly has nothing to do with my feelings about him. It's about logic. An increased risk of something happening <> the reason that thing happened, if it does. Period. But hey ...

"Not a bear in sight. The bear patrol must be working like a charm."

That said I'd love to see some data to back up your assertions. Wasn't able to find anything for this season, but kinda remember Thibs being the Knicks coach last year too...

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[Jeff Van Gully]

I pointed out some league averages back in January and there were no Knicks in the Top 20 in MPG. I think there were 2 or 3 in the Top 40.

Injuries seem to be up on all teams, be it small nagging issues to big time injuries. The pace of the game is up there. Other than Mitch -- which unfortunately is a player issue and not a coaching issue -- I can't remember a player that suffered from Thibs MPG distribution on the Knicks. Maybe in the tanking seasons, I don't know. Hardaway seemed to an durable guy. Same with Burks and Randle that year.

Randle had no injuries last year aside from the ankle (which I think we can all agree was sus). Brunson was fine. Grimes came into the season hurt. RJ was fine. IQ was fine. It's just crappy luck. It's a miracle Boston hasn't been touched with injuries.

joe mazzulla and thibs might be the exact same person, but we don't hear none of that smoke for him. he's actually doing "worse" with the minutes and rotations. thibs got a history, but he not going as wild as some would want you to believe. probably hard to take if that's your posting identity though.

The fact that Josh Hart has basically played like 44 minutes a night for the past month still only averaging 31 mins on the season says that thibs wasn't playing anyone big minutes until injuries happened.

that's all i'm asking. let's discuss the actual numbers. josh had a 40mpg february and has done 44 per night over these first 2 games in march. we know this is not sustainable. it's also not the plan. he'll be back to his 30-ish minutes when OG gets back. this is kind of how it works. sadly, injuries happen and they provide opportunity and periods where some folks gotta step up. josh built for it.

donte's playing big minutes temporarily too. precious had way less miles under him before february. and he'll soon be back to limited minutes.

brunson's averaging a pretty tight 36. the 40+ minute games are just not as frequent as one might believe. being generous, i count 8 so far on the season.

this is a tough time, but the overall minutes have clearly been managed. a few guys are being asked to absorb a little more temporarily. we about to be back to full strength soon. ready to see even more balance then.

[Jeff Van Gully]

It's ironic that you don't realize you're making my point for me.

You confuse correlation with causation here. I did say there is correlation between minutes played and injury risk. But by pointing out Wilt's uniqueness, you correctly assert that minutes played isn't the sole factor in injury risk and there can be mitigating circumstances that supersede minutes played. Simply put, players are built differently. They also play differently. You bring up Derrick Rose who had a play style that increased his injury risk, specifically risk of knee injury. He even talked about this post ACL. Did Thibs play him too much? Was it his play style? Both? You can't know. Or how about an injury to Zion? Would an injury be due to minutes? Play style? Body type? There's a ton of factors.

Don‘t pat yourself on the back too quick. I said our physical style is also a part of the injuries.
And you are not addressing why we lead the league in injuries. I‘ve never seen a Knock team so beat up.
Are you Thibs spokesperson? Seriously, he is a big part of the problem.

I don't even particularly care for Thibs. It's telling you need to go there to try and invalidate my point, because you can't on merit. This honestly has nothing to do with my feelings about him. It's about logic. An increased risk of something happening <> the reason that thing happened, if it does. Period. But hey ...

"Not a bear in sight. The bear patrol must be working like a charm."

That said I'd love to see some data to back up your assertions. Wasn't able to find anything for this season, but kinda remember Thibs being the Knicks coach last year too...

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[ctorres]

Josh Hart makes $20+ million a year. If you make that much, you should be fit enough to withstand a series of 40+ mpg games. He is being paid like a high level starter even after considering cap inflation.

[K_ick_God]

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smh

resign randle

Yeah I'm obviously not a big fan but I can't see trading him for KAT or Zion, which is a pretty remarkable thing to think at this stage.

[Jeffrey]

Don‘t pat yourself on the back too quick. I said our physical style is also a part of the injuries.
And you are not addressing why we lead the league in injuries. I‘ve never seen a Knock team so beat up.
Are you Thibs spokesperson? Seriously, he is a big part of the problem.

I don't even particularly care for Thibs. It's telling you need to go there to try and invalidate my point, because you can't on merit. This honestly has nothing to do with my feelings about him. It's about logic. An increased risk of something happening <> the reason that thing happened, if it does. Period. But hey ...

"Not a bear in sight. The bear patrol must be working like a charm."

That said I'd love to see some data to back up your assertions. Wasn't able to find anything for this season, but kinda remember Thibs being the Knicks coach last year too...

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Tweets were from last year?

[K_ick_God]

Don‘t pat yourself on the back too quick. I said our physical style is also a part of the injuries.
And you are not addressing why we lead the league in injuries. I‘ve never seen a Knock team so beat up.
Are you Thibs spokesperson? Seriously, he is a big part of the problem.

I don't even particularly care for Thibs. It's telling you need to go there to try and invalidate my point, because you can't on merit. This honestly has nothing to do with my feelings about him. It's about logic. An increased risk of something happening <> the reason that thing happened, if it does. Period. But hey ...

"Not a bear in sight. The bear patrol must be working like a charm."

That said I'd love to see some data to back up your assertions. Wasn't able to find anything for this season, but kinda remember Thibs being the Knicks coach last year too...

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Isn't it a year old?

[thisiskoz]

I don't even particularly care for Thibs. It's telling you need to go there to try and invalidate my point, because you can't on merit. This honestly has nothing to do with my feelings about him. It's about logic. An increased risk of something happening <> the reason that thing happened, if it does. Period. But hey ...

"Not a bear in sight. The bear patrol must be working like a charm."

That said I'd love to see some data to back up your assertions. Wasn't able to find anything for this season, but kinda remember Thibs being the Knicks coach last year too...

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Isn't it a year old?

I said in the post that I'd be up for more current data. That's what I found in two minutes. Thibs was the coach last year too right?

If the contention is that Thibs penchant for playing guys heavy minutes leads to more injuries, then his teams should be near the top of the league each year in terms of total injuries. Right?

Or maybe it's that heavy minutes leading to an increase in injury risk doesn't mean heavy minutes cause injury.