Chicago & Washington: How badly does WAS want off of Poole?

[drosestruts]

More of an opinion finding trade proposal just looking to see where people's heads are at, but have been thinking lately of something based around the following:

Chicago in: Jordan Poole and Deni Avdija

Washington in: Zach LaVine and Lonzo Ball

Idea being...

For Chicago

They save some money while adding 2 key depth pieces/a potential starter in Avdija, to break it down by player:

Jordan Poole - somewhere in there there's still the guy that was an integral part of a championship team. Drama in Golden State followed by a season in Washington I don't think did any good for any body. Might be some bias but I think Chicago has one of the stronger longer rooms in the NBA. DeMar is clearly the leader of that, and is one of the faces of the league in terms of mental health. I think Poole has gone from a bad situation for him in Golden State to one with heavy expectation and a lack of leadership in Washington. In Chicago, Poole could be Poole, a, albeit well paid, scorer off the bench.

Deni Avdija - a fan favorite among Wizards fans who finds himself in a crowded forward rotation with priority being given to Kuzma and Coulibaly. Chicago has a huge lack of forward and is often playing guard at forward spots.

Bulls would also save around $14m in cap space with such a deal

Bulls potential lineup:

White/Dosunmu/Carter
Caruso/Poole/Bitim
DeRozan/Williams/Terry
Avdija/Craig/Phillips
Vucevic/

Not sure if the Bulls will re-sign Drummond, they'll also have a first round pick which would ideally go to a center for some youth


For Washington

They move off Poole's deal but grab another player who's viewed as overpaid. Granted Zach actually scored efficiently, so does contribute something.

Lonzo is either an expiring contract or if this latest surgery works a great option at point guard for this Washington team.

Ball/
LaVine/Davis
Coulibaly/Kispert
Kuzma/Baldwin
Bagley/Holmes


Is there a foundation of a deal there? Would the Bulls need to also take on a contract like Holmes' or include a pick like the Portland 1st? Or is it all DOA?

[nate33]

lol no.

The Wizards aren't giving up Avdija to turn Poole into Lavine. It's an absurd idea. What does Lavine do for them? The Wizards are giving up a very good young player on a great contract for no discernable reason.

[zimpy27]

Not that badly. Wizards are a bad team trying to grow young players and pick high in the draft.

This trade makes no sense for them. Only reason they move Poole is if someone wants to pay them for him. Poole is on the Wiz for the contract length

[drosestruts]

got it - so basically Washington is fine taking a patient approach then? Or is it that you value Avdija and would do Poole + other things for LaVine (no idea what those things would be however)

[penbeast0]

We are fine taking the patient approach. We'd probably take Lavine for Poole straight up for the trade value though I'm not even sure of that. Management and coaches seem to like Poole a lot and talk about how hard he works so they might not. And, we aren't going to win for at least a couple of years. By then they will both be expiring and Poole will still be in his prime where Lavine will be post-prime and Poole could still mature enough to have value.

Don't get me wrong, to pretty much everyone else in the league, Lavine is the more valuable player, but Washington is in the 1st year of a tear down and talent acquisition plan. He'd be a mistake for us even if you gave him to us straight up.

Adding our best player to get a guy that won't help us either short term or long term would just be stupid.

[tmorgan]

got it - so basically Washington is fine taking a patient approach then? Or is it that you value Avdija and would do Poole + other things for LaVine (no idea what those things would be however)

My guess — any efficiency gained by upgrading Poole to Lavine is of very little value to Washington right now. The downsides are:

3/95 left for Poole, 3/137 left for Lavine
Lavine is older, has more wear and tear, and will be coming off an injury
Any additional wins Lavine provides the next two years are nothing but a potential lower draft pick.

I’m not sure WAS should make that trade straight up. If you can rehab and resell Lavine, ok, probably. But Avdija for Lonzo would require at least two firsts, one of them lottery.

They’ll probably just deal Kuzma if they want to open up even more time for Bilal and Deni.

[jayjaysee]

I’d feel bad for Washington if they gave up assets to go back to chasing the play-in.

The OP is too far even if Washington desperately wants to have a “star” name player on their roster.

There’s no one in the league Washington shouldn’t trade Poole for. But let them actually enjoy this long delayed rebuild.

[JJ_PR]

This is horrible for the Wiz.

[Clav]

Avdija is untouchable.

Poole and Jones for S/T Derozan would be closer, but probably still a no from Washington. Unless Derozan takes a 2/80 Team Option

[Silvie Lysandra]

Poole is more valuable as a tank commander that we could potentially rehabilitate because of his age than anything any team would reasonably give up for him.

[Mike lorenzo]

I don't think Washington should touch this, however I would send Kuzma+#24 +to the Bulls for Lonzo+#11...and come out of the draft with a Sarr/Collier combo

[Lucky Once]

Washington is not giving up assets to move Poole and especially not Deni Avdija.

[Mr Peanut]

Yeah this is bad. Washington take on the worse contract for a career loser who is consistently injured, and another guy who is basically a contract only as his career seems pretty much over. And they have to give up the promising Avdija to do that?

Yet another thread significantly overvaluing Zach LaVine.

[BK_2020]

If Washington wants to get rid of Poole they can just cut him.

[jazzfan1971]

They won't cut him, then they'd have dead money on the books. That's terrible.

I'm fine with Washington taking a patient approach and just letting him become an expiring contract.

I can't see anyone give up assets to trade for him. That seems crazy to me.

Maybe this is too much cost to dump him, but the idea that they might pay to dump him isn't crazy. Teams paying to dump players happens pretty frequently.

And the coaches saying they love him. What do you expect them to say? We hate having him on the team and are being forced by the GM to give him minutes? Do you expect the coaches to try and tear down their own player or build him up?

[drosestruts]

Thanks for the background and context on Washington's mindset and their position on some of their players. Some helpful responses in better understanding Washington's goals.

I do think this board continues to have very odd stance in Avdija - seeing people label him "untouchable" seems a bit much to me.

Similarly, it's frustrating to continually see people label Lavine as "constantly injured" - he missed extended time with the ACL injury and recovery, and then now this season with the foot surgery. In 10 seasons that's two injuries - outside of that he's been pretty consistently available outside some covid absences, but that's affected everyone.

[theBigLip]

Lavine might have the worst contract in the league. That contract is huge. It’s too big for contending teams, even if he’s the “missing piece”. And for the teams w cap space like Detroit, it makes no sense for Lavine to be part of their rebuild.


If Chicago wants to move him, they are going to have to attach assets to make it happen.

[nate33]

I don't think Washington should touch this, however I would send Kuzma+#24 +to the Bulls for Lonzo+#11...and come out of the draft with a Sarr/Collier combo

That's an interesting idea! I might do that from Washington's perspective.

I wonder if OKC would consider a similar trade for their #9 pick? (Kuzma and #24 for #9 and filler.) Kuzma would fit their system pretty well as a guy who can shoot, pass and make decisions but also providing some extra size and rebounding. And his descending contract will keep costs down when Chet and Jalen eventually have to resign.

[nate33]

Maybe this is too much cost to dump him, but the idea that they might pay to dump him isn't crazy. Teams paying to dump players happens pretty frequently.

Terrible teams don't pay assets to dump bad contracts unless they're in a market like LA and NY where clearing the books and signing multiple max free agents is a real possibility.

What tangible benefit to the Wizards to they get from unloading Poole? They're not going to land a good free agent with the extra cap room. All they could do is use the cap room to buy picks. But then they'd ultimately be selling picks to offload Poole just to buy picks with the resulting cap space. What are the odds of that turning out as an actual net benefit?

[penbeast0]

Thanks for the background and context on Washington's mindset and their position on some of their players. Some helpful responses in better understanding Washington's goals.

I do think this board continues to have very odd stance in Avdija - seeing people label him "untouchable" seems a bit much to me.

Similarly, it's frustrating to continually see people label Lavine as "constantly injured" - he missed extended time with the ACL injury and recovery, and then now this season with the foot surgery. In 10 seasons that's two injuries - outside of that he's been pretty consistently available outside some covid absences, but that's affected everyone.

I think untouchable is hyperbole; anyone offers Wemby for him, all those untouchables are going to be on board instantly. I think what it means is that Washington would ask a premium for him; more than we expect other teams to offer, because we see him as a central building block where other teams are seeing him as a complementary player around their core.