Mikistan wrote:mdenny wrote:MadDogSHWA wrote:
Very low PPS.
It's basically the same thing as shooting a squared up, proper shot on a backboard that is moving back and forth. It will never be a good shot outside of using it when your frontcourt has rebounding position.
The reason basketball players become such great shooters is by shooting millions of shots under the exact same conditions. No two floaters are the same because the extra variable introduced is forward momentum (which is never quite the same from one Floater to the next). The whole point of taking millions of practise shots is to ELIMINATE variables (or control them) so that every shot is the same. You can't control the forward momentum variable of a Floater shot.
Another illustrative example would be practicing a normal shot but the height of the rim always changes slightly from shot to shot.
Are some guys better at floaters than others? Sure. But that's also true for half-court shots. It doesn't make them a "good shot".
I'm gonna need you to put some respect on the floater.
First we must all align on what a floater is by definition.
There are many floaters. Ranging from slower controlled teardrops, to hang time, offhand, switching hand, off the backboard, full speed, or on the run floaters.
You describe a situation where the player is shooting lots of different floater shots in a read/react flow, maybe even using different hands, jumping at different speeds and at different angles all the time.
There are guys who will have practiced their pet move floater shots extensively... as counters or to gain advantages for other strategic floaters as you mentioned with bigs in rebound position, sure... But there is value also for variation on team offense and game matchup tactics, long term health, and there are certain practices shots that can give players advantage and efficiencies for their own physical limitations.
First listen to a master of the craft and nba raptors and fellow nba Brooklyn nets legend Jarret Jack.
https://youtu.be/SVBCmnvTuzs?si=-fH15cQAiACl0gTqNext consider the Tony Parker fast break spin floater in complete contrast.
This floater was an end point for a longer play/move set up.
Tony would run at you right handed dribble drive, pull the ball over to the left of his body with his right hand, spin left while running full speed by switching the ball to his left hand then gather two handed at the end of the spin and put up a right hand grounded 2 foot shot going towards the rim - type floater.
Not everyone is a shooter and if you aren't catching and shooting wide open 3 off someone else creating, then you may as well try to optimize for as high a percentage of 2 pt shot you can right? If you can't dunk, what the **** you gonna do?
somebody has to create too for those 3pt kick outs (and statistically catching the ball from a pass out of the paint rather than from the side above the arc will make the shooter hit more shots - probably because players from young ages have a rebounder passing them from under the rim to shoot their next shot!)
... And if you are a creator, you need to be a threat to score or at least put pressure on the rim. These are the types of shots and moves that players can definitely practice over and over to be more efficient. This was one of many tools of good shots in Tony parkers bag. You made some disingenuous hyperbole comparing the floater to a half court shot. It's a value proposition with expected value 2pts for degree of difficulty plus other permutations of read/react optionality if you bail on floater for passes or hunt floater for alley oop attempts etc etc. It's also easy to deploy out of live dribble decisions unlike picking up your dribble to get off a non-leaner pull up jumper. One thing that made the floater get less use in the nba is the lower chance to get a foul call and-1 or bait higher expected value 2 ft attempts as outcomes... But not everyone can hang in the air with the trees absorb contact and draw fouls or finish shots like FVV couldn't. It removes the defender for the equation and its a legit option out of pick and roll creation for guys who can't dunk. Tons of value as an option to practice getting good at
In conclusion, also please consider curry and and Jokic are two of the most efficient shooters of all time and I wouldn't call them guys who shoot bad shots. And both use floaters baby! But some guys are just better than others... Like Tony parker
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Most FGA from floater range (paint, but NOT restricted area)
Jokic: 62 FGA—74.2% (cmon bro)
Bam: 48—43.8%
Clarkson: 47—36.2%
AD: 45—46.7%
Brunson: 44—36.4%
Embiid: 43—46.5%
Thomas: 42—50.0%
SGA: 41—48.8%
Trae: 41—34.1%
Cade: 40—35.0%
Vuc: 40—47.5%
Zion: 40—30.0%
[OC] Tony Parker's 2006 season is the 2016 Steph Curry of scoring at the rim
During the '05-'06 season, Tony Parker attempted a whopping 46.9% of his shot attempts from within 3 feet of the hoop, and he made them at a staggering 70.5% clip.
For reference, Kyrie Irving, who's sometimes regarded as the best point guard finisher ever, has shot 60.3% at the rim for his career on 25.8% of his shot attempts.
In regards to volume, Parker attempted 533 shots from within 3 feet in the '05-'06 season, which is 64 more than Derrick Rose (61.1 FG%) during his MVP season, and only 36 less than '16-'17 Westbrook (57.6 FG%) who shattered the NBA record for usage rate.
When it comes to efficiency, the only point guard who can beat Parker is Steve Nash, who had seasons where he shot 72.5%, 73.9%, and 74.0% respectively.
However, Nash's volume in those seasons was far lower than Parker's, which is where the combination of % and volume gives Parker the Steph Curry comparison.
2006 Parker: 70.5% on 533 attempts
2010 Nash: 72.5% on 153 attempts
2011 Nash: 73.9% on 119 attempts
2012 Nash: 74.0% on 104 attempts
Disclaimer: This post is in reference to point guards only. I'm well aware that bigger players at other positions will post better numbers at the rim than a 6'2"-6'3" point guard.
y'all are making laugh, Always wonder if folks like you actually have followed the team and the NBA or just use games to take breaks off playing NBA2K while being analytics experts.
